SupportAsia

[Androme]

All of you already know about the tradgic incident, whether a thread's been created or not, that's irrelevant.

Either visit the link(s) in my sig or go to www.supportasia.org - every little helps.

I've already donated a large sump along with my dad while collecting money from the local Tamil & Christian communities and that's been sent off to Sri Lanka - so I ask if the rest of you could donate even a little bit. My dad's hometown was hit in Sri Lanka which is why it was sent there and no-where else incase that's asked.

What I will say however, I think it's sad that people on average only donate when a major disaster has occured. It doesn't matter any other time even though poverty, famine etc. is still going on and ie: even in some places in India & Sri Lanka, basic human needs aren't met - yet for the rest year no-one bothers donating. Before the finger is pointed right back at me, I have a debit account where the RSPCAA & Red Cross taken money out in monthly transactions.

Hopefully the people donating now will do the same - and it's not that expensive to do so every month - as little as £2 with the Red Cross. Think about it.

[Aryn]

that has got to be teh most impressive post i've seen from you.
that said, unfortunately as much as i'd like to donate all the time i simply can't afford it (not right now anyway). last year when i worked at safeway i had a small amount of each paycheck donated to a charity. also when the fires hit BC last year i donated a bunch of my teddybears for the kids and some clothes and food. so i do like to help out when i can.
this disaster unfortunately came at a bad time for me and they are not accepting donations of anything except money. when i get paid tomorrow i am planning on donating $10. it's not much but it should buy some water for a few people.

actually this whole donating thing is sort of pissing me off. now we've got all our countries having a penis contest over who's donating more. the point is not who donates more, it 's just the fact that it's been donated.
that said, i'm also a tad pissed at a few canadians stuck in thailand. i think we should leave them there :\ particularly this one woman who went on tv insulting our government for not getting her home right away. like fs. there's not many planes coming/going atm and she should be happ y that she's alive nevermind at home. most other canadians there have decided to stay and help out and here she is complaining that no one's sent her a private jet to get home.

anyway end rant.



ps i think everyone should try and donate a bit. you'd want someone to help you out if you were in that situation :\

[Sunday8pm]

I could only ever imagine donating to china when it comes to indo-china nations, cause at least they are making concerted efforts not to piss off nature.

I think it's sad people donate to flavours of the month rather than something they stoically believe in.

Why suddenly pull some money out of your wallet to fund those foolish enough to overpopulate an area and eek out an exsistence beyond natures mercy when there are many greater issues that deserve funding, like fighting cancer and other worldly diseases, natural and possibly man-made, that could threaten our civilization as a whole...

Call it a troll if it helps you sleep better but this is god honest more truth than you can probably handle and is more valid than any arguments you feasibly believe in to justify your actions.

I do believe in triage and I believe more people will die to cancer and other associated diseases every month worldwide than will die to this earthquake... I think you make a mockery of the diligent hard working bright scientists who live each and every day off of what we provide for them financially to research the worlds greatest killers.

[Aryn]

this may make me look like a cold hearted bitch but so be it.
i am donating to what i believe in. i don't want to donate to a disease cure effort because in my mind i think why bother? disease is natures way of killing us off. 'natural selection' if you will. same as earthquakes and such. but the difference here is.. i'm donating to help the survivors, not the victims. see?

(yes i have had someone close to me die of such disease so don't start with the 'you don't know what it's like yadda yadda' argument.)

[Sunday8pm]

Just because you don't see what goes on in your(or others) body doesn't mean each and every one of us isn't a survivor of cancer?

Next you'll be telling us that our body is all humours and that our well being is affected solely by the moon and that autopsies are a fallacy.

[Dante Hicks]

The whole point of triage is about the use of resources. Billions are spent (indirectly through health services and drug company research etc) on treatments of cancer. Another hundred million would obviously help, but would not lead to a significant saving of lives. That is not necessarily the case with earthquake victims or similar.

As for "pissing off nature" (silly expression, btw but it'll do) - Chinese rates of pollution are drastically higher than rural communities in parts of Indonesia.

On diseases, a good proportion of cancer victims are people over 50 or 60 (i.e. past their physical peak). Even ignoring where it's blatantly lifestyle related (e.g. lung cancer, liver cancers, etc) I'd prefer resources were poured into saving younger people. Yes, there are younger people dying of cancer (especially leukemia) but that is not the primary cauce of cancer deaths. You have to die of something. If we're going to be cold hearted and rational that's fine, but let's at least be balanced about this.

[Aryn]

what?
that last post didn't make any sense to me.
basically i'm saying we're all going to die anyway so i'm not too concerned in finding ways to live longer.
i do care about people who have had everything they love and know ripped away from them. hence my donating of toys or clothing. there's nothing that can be done about the dead, but the survivors still need help.
perhaps i have a different perception of life and death than others. but your argument is that i'm being a mindless sheep and donating cause someone said so ,and i'm saying that i'm donating because it's something i believe in and i want to do it.

[Sunday8pm]

At least china have instigated population control...

Meanwhile while China might be producing a lot of pollution, I'm pretty sure proportionally the amount of enviromental damage being done in other indo-china nations in ragards to the amount of pollution produced is being far exceeded by countries like indonesia.... which suggests grave consequences should they ever industrialize like china themselves... Let's not even mention the population growth rates with regards to density of population over landmass... Also Indonesia tends to be surrounded by a lot of ocean which can absorb a lot of pollution which isn't measurable until beyond a certain extent... China doesn't have the same luxury ratio wise.

[Aryn]

every country pollutes. so i'm having a hard time grasping your argument here. it sounds like (correct me if i'm wrong) we shouldn't help over populated countries and those who pollute.

[Sunday8pm]

Originally Posted by Aryn

what?
that last post didn't make any sense to me.
basically i'm saying we're all going to die anyway so i'm not too concerned in finding ways to live longer.
i do care about people who have had everything they love and know ripped away from them. hence my donating of toys or clothing. there's nothing that can be done about the dead, but the survivors still need help.
perhaps i have a different perception of life and death than others. but your argument is that i'm being a mindless sheep and donating cause someone said so ,and i'm saying that i'm donating because it's something i believe in and i want to do it.

on one hand you are arguing for sustaining the unsustainable lifestyle that some nations adopt because of sentimental rationalization... on the other hand you are arguing that cancer kills and that we don't have survivors and that we don't want to create more survivors and that investigating the causes and stopping it happening at all at whatever age, because lets face it, it's a massive assumption that Cancer strikes swiftly and immediately... it can already be present in people for a long long time before the dehabilitating symptoms make themselves present.... I don't see your rationality here.

I don't display symptoms of ill-health, I don't know of anyone else here displaying symptoms of ill-health here, though many of us could be harbouring cancerous cells that may or may not result in the termination of our life prematurely... Also agism isn't cool... To suggest that someone's last 5-10 years on the planet no matter how old they are, is not worth as much as someone's first 5-10 years on the planet is pathetic and judgemental... many people on this planet work till well into their 60's to provide for their offspring and it's only fair they see that they get to enjoy a healthy retirement espeicially in regards to how much they may of contributed to society.

[Sunday8pm]

Originally Posted by Aryn

every country pollutes. so i'm having a hard time grasping your argument here. it sounds like (correct me if i'm wrong) we shouldn't help over populated countries and those who pollute.

My argument is that we shouldn't be providing aid to clean up other countries deliberate messes that they didn't insure themselves against that doesn't immediately affect us.

I mean are we still cleaning up chernobyl?

[Aryn]

i don't think i'm being hypocritical here. yes i could potentially have cancer. but i don't care. even if i was diagnosed with it i wouldn't care. maybe that's just me.

i don't think we're arguing the same thing though. i mean there might be a subtle difference in what i'm arguing for but here's another way to look at it.

cancer vs disaster.

if i died of cancer there's nothing that can be done about it. maybe i could have prevented it. but in my own personal view of things, i wouldn't have wanted to. my family is left without me. yes it's sad but life goes on. someone could donate money to cancer research to help prevent this from happening to someone else.. but that will never help my family.

now disaster. my house is destroyed, my family's house is destroyed, i die. nothing can be done about my death, but someone could help out my family by donating some water or a blanket. again doesn't do anything about my death, but it helps my family.


do you see the differences in the causes? that's what i'm getting at. that is how i look at things. perhaps it's a selfish view, i don't know. but for now i'll agree that we disagree on how things s hould be. (i have to go to bed anyway)

[Sunday8pm]

If your family had destroyed your house and killed you through ignorance I wouldn't be donating.

Nor would I sustain a society that condones killing your daughters while destroying your home and all your worldly possessions.

p.s. What's to say the people who died in this disaster particularly cared about dying? Are you saying because you don't care about what could kill you just what could leave others feeling bereft with guilt that you have no identity with, that you would donate? Sounds like personal feelings rather than sense speaking.

[Aryn]

hmm.. i guess you're right. my parents live on an island that will sink if th ere's ever a big earthquake in the lower mainland. how stupid of them to stay there. in fact. how stupid of everyone who lives in vancouver. what are they doing? there's a natural disaster just waiting to happen (been waiting for it for 10 y ears now) a nd they're still there!! gee paul you're right. if there's an earthquak ethere i'd better not help them out because tehy're the stupid morons who choose to stay there
omg and the country. canada.. they've done nothing to prevent this disaster!! no country s hould ever help them out because obviously canada is too stupid to deserve help for this totally predictable event.


yes this is tiredness talking but come on sunday.
don't you think you're going a tad ott?

[Sunday8pm]

Don't you think you are just grabbing things out of thin air and creating them in your head to sound like a good riposte when they aren't even researched?

A good argument would present me with plausible scientific evidence or historical evidence of Earthquakes that could cause a catastrophic disaster in the area... while also demonstrating that Vancouver has decided that Ottawa can handle their Emergency infrastructure... and that building standards are basically sticks with some leafs on are ok.... I mean come on.... make a decent riposte please.

You also kinda skipped my p.s. as I'm curious to how your self-worth value relates to the western world you identify with and their needs in comparison to the non western world you don't identify with but can draw sentimental analogies with apparrently.

p.s. Did anyone really bother with a follow up thread on places like Hatii when they got hit by the hurricaines... I can remember all the drama when they were up to their necks in water and shit and everyone sympathizing then... For all I know they are still up to their necks in shit and water, cept are prolly wearing a 2 season old football top now and eating some no name brand baked beans for dinner now. It seems charity is all about give and forget and assume with you guys. No-one reports on how successfully that aid goes.... Hence why the only charity I've really been happy to support outside of cancer research is Comic Relief, cause at least each year they update us and people actually stop watch and listen.

[Aryn]

i'm too tired to continue this tonight so i'll go to bed and come up with a proper argument tomorrow.
neither of us can identify with the non-western world in teh sense i believe you are refering to. yes we are looking at it in different ways. i use sentimentality while you (in your opinion) use your senses.
a human being is still a human being with the basic needs of food, shelter, and clothing. so yes to someone who has nothing i'd like to donate something. if you'd like to call it sentimentality then so be it. from what i gather of your argument, no matter who they are, they put themselves in that situation by being there and therefore deserve nothing. (forgive me i'm having trouble putting what i'm trying to say into a proper argument)
if i'm wrong then again correct me but this time use small words and short sentences.
i'll read it tomorrow.

(ps stop posting ps's after i've st arted replying )

a quick answer to your ps. i did follow up on the hurricanes and there was nothing more to do. i can't donate the clothes on my back and my house to save someone. we can only help up to a point, and then it's time for those people to get themselves back up on their feet. yes they may still be up shit creek without a paddle.. but at least th ey've got some food and clothing.. that's part of the way back to the way things were...

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

I could only ever imagine donating to china when it comes to indo-china nations, cause at least they are making concerted efforts not to piss off nature.

You do realise nature doesn't have emotions right?

I think it's sad people donate to flavours of the month rather than something they stoically believe in.

Maybe people stoically believe in giving money to the largest, most-newsworthy tragic events?

Why suddenly pull some money out of your wallet to fund those foolish enough to overpopulate an area and eek out an exsistence beyond natures mercy when there are many greater issues that deserve funding, like fighting cancer and other worldly diseases, natural and possibly man-made, that could threaten our civilization as a whole...

There's always a greater cause you can argue needs increased expenditure. However you're being unnecessarily harsh on those people who lived in those areas. Ignoring children, who can't reasonably move to another part of the country, many people living on the coastlines of Sri Lanka, India, Thailand or Indonesia would have to leave their homes, jobs and any reasonable prospects of an improved life for their children behind. (I'm unsure what you want the people of Sri Lanka to do, maybe all of them should just up and leave the country!)

Call it a troll if it helps you sleep better but this is god honest more truth than you can probably handle and is more valid than any arguments you feasibly believe in to justify your actions.

I do believe in triage and I believe more people will die to cancer and other associated diseases every month worldwide than will die to this earthquake... I think you make a mockery of the diligent hard working bright scientists who live each and every day off of what we provide for them financially to research the worlds greatest killers.

The world's greatest killer is actually caused by a fatty diet, smoking, a sedentary lifestyle, lack of regular exercise and stress. Frankly if you believe in triage you (and I to be fair) are the first people who should be killed off and had their skin made into tents, or at least forced into some random slave labour camp to break rocks.


PS I BIT!


PPS Here's the world health report listing causes of death by number, area and sex afflicted in case you want to reorganise the sunday graph of importance so as to correspond with the most recent figures. And 7.1 million people died of cancer last year which works out at roughly 600,000 per month which if you include those likely to die in the worst-affected areas due to the total destruction of their homes, any basic healthcare available, sewerage facilities, clean drinking water facilities and their places of work will probably not cover it.

[skiddy]

Well, I gave £50 simply because I have £50 and a house and a comfortable life, they don't. If I didn't send it to the aid charities for this, I'd only spend it on beer - they need food and supplies more than I need beer.

[Stew]

How exactly did you spin this to the PM's advantage?
Him saying its terrible and need to unite the world?
To highlight the generosity of the British people?

[Phang]

sunday you're such a cretin. honest to god

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

I could only ever imagine donating to china when it comes to indo-china nations, cause at least they are making concerted efforts not to piss off nature.

the factual inaccuracy has already been demonstrated, but i'm going to teach you about this little thing called 'developing nations'. you see, when the foremost industry of a country is fishing and they are seeking to change this, it is required that evil things like factories are built. this is not very nice for the environment but has the happy side of producing money so that the children of the country can own shoes. Britain, I would wager, 'pissed off nature' almightily. Far more pollution per capita, and it carried on for longer.

I think it's sad people donate to flavours of the month rather than something they stoically believe in.

letting people live in houses is something i believe in. i give my 10 quid a month to whichever the hell it is african charity, but right now the situation in ethiopia or even sudan is far better than that in sri lanka or indonesia, so money is going there at the moment.

Why suddenly pull some money out of your wallet to fund those foolish enough to overpopulate an area and eek out an exsistence beyond natures mercy when there are many greater issues that deserve funding, like fighting cancer and other worldly diseases, natural and possibly man-made, that could threaten our civilization as a whole...

i can't even find the words to describe how monumentally idiotic your argument and entire line of argument is here, so i'll call you a faggot and move right on.

I do believe in triage and I believe more people will die to cancer and other associated diseases every month worldwide than will die to this earthquake... I think you make a mockery of the diligent hard working bright scientists who live each and every day off of what we provide for them financially to research the worlds greatest killers.

as dante said, putting money into tsunami relief funds will save more lives than giving it to cancer research bodies. for the record, i've lost a grandparent, five other relatives, and almost an aunt to cancers of various types, so it's not as if i'm wildly disconnected from the concept. it's a horrible way to die and it doesn't just go for smokers and heavy drinkers, it's totally indiscriminate. of my inheritance from the aforementioned grandfather, i've assigned £300 a year to CRUK. but tsunami relief, right now, is the more worthy cause.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

I could only ever imagine donating to china when it comes to indo-china nations, cause at least they are making concerted efforts not to piss off nature.

I'm still trying to work out what this post is about. Who except Sunday mentioned China?

[Phang]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

I'm still trying to work out what this post is about. Who except Sunday mentioned China?

sunday just doesn't know what indochina means, don't worry.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Phang

sunday just doesn't know what indochina means, don't worry.

Indochina wasn't mentioned EITHER.

Oh, and the only mention of China wrt this event I've seen has been them donating money.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Indochina wasn't mentioned EITHER.

Oh, and the only mention of China wrt this event I've seen has been them donating money.

he said the only indochinese nation he'd donate to (confusing 'indochina' with 'any part of asia' presumably) was china, because he'd got it int his head that they're more environmentally friendly than, say, sri lanka, apparently.

he's just an almighty idiot, dont worry.

[MrL_JaKiri]

I'm not sure how he's come to believe that indochina includes china.

[skiddy]

It's got 'china' at the end. It's like United Kingdom once had a King in it, but he died :sad:

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by skiddy

It's got 'china' at the end. It's like United Kingdom once had a King in it, but he died :sad:

United Queendom just sounds gay though.

[skiddy]

You'd have to replace the red in the flag with pink too

[Phang]

Originally Posted by skiddy

You'd have to replace the red in the flag with pink too

and the flag would have to be made of lace...

[skiddy]

With frilly bits around the side like Ann Summers underwear.


Right, now I'm starting to like this Queendom thing...

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue

Reminds me of that joke about when we had a king we had a kingdom and when we Maggie Thatcher we had a country.

this is utterly winner

[JonnyBGood]

To continue on the cancer-tangent (and what a tangent!) after looking into the amount of funding it receives I can reliably confirm it absolutely dwarves the contributions given to international charities so far. To try and make an accurate comparison the US government has given $35 million, 3.5 million less than what is spent in Florida on cancer-treatment funding and there is a well publicised and heavily backed drive in Florida to increase this to 500 million dollars over the next five years.

Drawing a slightly different comparison the US congress appropriated $6 billion in autumn 2003 to rebuild Iraq's electric power sector. Just under half a billion dollars has been raised so far for the aid effort.

[skiddy]

Iraq needs electric-trickery for when I want to drop on GD next year

[JonnyBGood]

Or maybe they've already built it and this tragedy has all been the work of George W. Bush and his coterie of neo-conservative ultra-hawks* in their dastardly plan for world-domination, Sri Lanka obviously being one of their most powerful opponents in this endeavour.





*Calling someone an ultra-hawk actually makes them sound ridiculously cool and I promise not to use this expression in future.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Or maybe they've already built it and this tragedy has all been the work of George W. Bush and his coterie of neo-conservative ultra-hawks*.





*Calling someone an ultra-hawk actually makes them sound ridiculously cool and I promise not to use this expression in future.

can someone please draw an ultrahawk

[JonnyBGood]

That was an alarmingly quick quote before my edit.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

That was an alarmingly quick quote before my edit.

I'M ALWAYS WATCHING

[Nusselt]

country = cnutry

i won't embarass myself by stating that it took me a great deal of brain power time to work that one out

[Androme]

Sunday - do not undermine people's times & efforts to donate.

[Sunday8pm]

I just find it ridiculous that people choose to contribute to these sort of things... extremely hypocritic even... in relation to what they mostly don't do every other day of the year.

Ah well now the US has pledged more money it doesn't have lol... this is just one thoroughly amusing comedy fest for me.

Minutes silences at new years... ridiculous donations... **** it if I'm still surprised how many people are putting off the inevitable.

[Androme]

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

I just find US more money lol... this is just ridiculous

Great quote dude.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

I just find it ridiculous that people choose to contribute to these sort of things... extremely hypocritic even... in relation to what they mostly don't do every other day of the year.

In terms of general donations to charity (cancer, childrens, whatever, generally through a thing like Children in Need), you're making a valid argument. People know that children's charities exist, and that children need help all year round, but many only give when the TV show rolls around again.

I'm not quite sure how it's hypocritical to give money to an unstoppable, unforseen natural disaster on a near unprecedented scale. Sure, you could donate money to charities which would have improved the population of the relevent countries' Quality of Life, but it would almost certainly have made little or no difference.

What could people have been doing the rest of the year that would have helped here?

[Sunday8pm]

Yes with money they don't have, gotta love them american's, they musta found the tree's that grow money somewhere in iraq.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Sunday8pm

Yes with money they don't have, gotta love them american's, they musta found the tree's that grow money somewhere in iraq.

I think America should continue giving money to large corporations, not squander it on helping the needy.

The unfortunate get all the breaks.

[Sunday8pm]

I'm stunned we aren't purging these second and third world countries of their populations sooner and distributing the resources more usefully, at least they wouldn't be used for WAR!

[MrL_JaKiri]

Fun fact kids: western nations have never gone to war!

[Sunday8pm]

No we've just gone to clean up problems like human right issues and terrorists and bullies.

Acting in a parental responsible fashion for the future good of the global whole is never war.

[Marilyn Manson]

Sunday was the first of the gang to fag up.

[Sunday8pm]

I think we've shown that discreetly funding second and third world nations to wipe each other out whilst not getting our hands dirty hasn't worked, and in some cases it's backfired and they've bred like rabbits and worked out...

It's time we got our hands dirty and finished the job and take the resources for our own so they will be better used.

[LHC]

Look what happens when you unban Sunday.