Planetarion Forums - travler

Travler · 17 Apr 2006, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

What if two people who truly believe pray for the same thing? Surely not both can have what they want?

Is this guy not someones gimmick account?

What the two people pray for would have to be in alignment with God's Word which is the Bible. You could not pray for someone to die and expect God to answer that prayer. Two people praying for another to be healed would be more likely to be answered.

All Systems Go · 17 Apr 2006, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

What the two people pray for would have to be in alignment with God's Word which is the Bible. You could not pray for someone to die and expect God to answer that prayer. Two people praying for another to be healed would be more likely to be answered.

Do you geuinley believe that if all of the people in the West prayed for all the starving people in Africa to have food then it would magically appear?

Travler · 17 Apr 2006, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Since "bar" is Aramaic and "ben" is Hebrew, and Jesus most likely spoke Aramaic, no.

I would have to disagree.

Joshua bar-Joseph would be fine for the common man but other jews would use Yeshua Ben Yosef.

Yahwe · 17 Apr 2006, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

I would have to disagree.

Joshua bar-Joseph would be fine for the common man but other jews would use Yeshua Ben Yosef.

you don't seem to understand what proteus has said.

I'm bowled over with surprise ...

Deepflow · 17 Apr 2006, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

What the two people pray for would have to be in alignment with God's Word which is the Bible. You could not pray for someone to die and expect God to answer that prayer. Two people praying for another to be healed would be more likely to be answered.

There was a thread I saw on D&D in SA which had a report about the power of prayer for heart patients.

I can't remember all the details, but the gist was that if you were prayed for you were more likely to die.

Funny old world eh?

JonnyBGood · 17 Apr 2006, 22:00

I can't believe anyone is responding to someone who has expressed the belief that, at least some, africans are dying because they prayed to the wrong god.

Especially considering that earlier he professed that he had nothing against anyone who believed in a higher power.

Ramihyn · 17 Apr 2006, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

If you make one more post like this I'm banning you. I am not joking. And I will not remove it. Ever.

I can fully relate to that, but one thing is for sure - this thread delivers. Once in a while it is very useful to get a reality update and read what fanatics of different flavors think. Suddenly all other people seem to be much more normal

Travler · 18 Apr 2006, 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I can't believe anyone is responding to someone who has expressed the belief that, at least some, africans are dying because they prayed to the wrong god.

Especially considering that earlier he professed that he had nothing against anyone who believed in a higher power.

I personally don't have anything agaist those who believe differently. I just know that God is not going to help when he is not wanted.

In the USA we have 911 service. You need the police, an ambulance, or a firefighter you call and they show up. So what happens when nobody calls? Nothing good.

It's no different with God even though he knows what is going on. God still waits for us to call on him.

Yahwe · 18 Apr 2006, 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

I personally don't have anything agaist those who believe differently. I just know that God is not going to help when he is not wanted.

In the USA we have 911 service. You need the police, an ambulance, or a firefighter you call and they show up. So what happens when nobody calls? Nothing good.

It's no different with God even though he knows what is going on. God still waits for us to call on him.

so your god is a utility?

Travler · 18 Apr 2006, 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

so your god is a utility?

no a utility would be like the power/electric company, or the water/sewage company etc.

God is more like 911 which is a service when you need help. God is both the servant and the served.

It's really easy to explain things to someone that is foolish enough to believe in his own divinity.

Yahwe · 18 Apr 2006, 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

no a utility would be like the power/electric company, or the water/sewage company etc.

God is more like 911 which is a service when you need help. God is both the servant and the served.

how is 911 not a utility

Travler · 18 Apr 2006, 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

how is 911 not a utility

utilities are privately owned.

911 is goverment controlled and is called 911 service.

Yahwe · 18 Apr 2006, 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

utilities are privately owned.

911 is goverment controlled and is called 911 service.

oh.

that is all that i can say.

Squidly · 18 Apr 2006, 06:11

Right.

So the folks who are praying for those sick, and seemingly not receiving any gratification for their efforts are doing something wrong?

Travler · 18 Apr 2006, 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squidly

Right.

So the folks who are praying for those sick, and seemingly not receiving any gratification for their efforts are doing something wrong?

not quite. The healing is done. Just may be the wrong time and/or be at the wrong place to receive the healing. God will usually deliver a message with instructions. If those are not followed then the blessing is missed but the blessing was still there.

None are so blind as those who will not see.

Squidly · 18 Apr 2006, 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

not quite. The healing is done. Just may be the wrong time and/or be at the wrong place to receive the healing. God will usually deliver a message with instructions. If those are not followed then the blessing is missed but the blessing was still there.

None are so blind as those who will not see.

Err... so in 20 years of suffering from cancer for example, someone missed the 'message'? and the 'healing'?

Are. You. KIDDING ME?!

Edit: Or, if the healing is done in another place...... did god just finish healing a small patch of soil and say "sucks to be you, why weren't you lying here etc?"

coffee- · 18 Apr 2006, 06:47

Maybe god will strike lightening to a tree, which will then be used for your casket :|

coffee- · 18 Apr 2006, 16:56

Travler is your god responsible for wet-tshirt contests? If so, I think I may dig him.

Ste · 18 Apr 2006, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deepflow

There was a thread I saw on D&D in SA which had a report about the power of prayer for heart patients.

I can't remember all the details, but the gist was that if you were prayed for you were more likely to die.

Funny old world eh?

found this on explosm:
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/...home-headlines

Travler · 19 Apr 2006, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffee-

Travler is your god responsible for wet-tshirt contests? If so, I think I may dig him.

According to the Bible he made Eve. He made the water and the materials such as cotton to make a t-shirt so he must have known that eventually there would be wet-tshirt contests. Does he approve. Well I cannot answer that but he did make it possible.

Yahwe · 19 Apr 2006, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

According to the Bible he made Eve. He made the water and the materials such as cotton to make a t-shirt so he must have known that eventually there would be wet-tshirt contests. Does he approve. Well I cannot answer that but he did make it possible.

he made homosexuality possible as well didn't he.

and he made it rather fun. bless the old faggot

Travler · 19 Apr 2006, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ste

found this on explosm:
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/...home-headlines

From that article I like the final paragraphs:

But Koenig said clinical trials would never answer that question. "Science is powerful and wonderful in determining the orbit of the Earth, the speed of a bullet, the power of a new drug. But now we've asked science to study something that occurs outside of space and time.

"This shows you shouldn't try to prove the power of the supernatural," he said.

All Systems Go · 19 Apr 2006, 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

From that article I like the final paragraphs:

But Koenig said clinical trials would never answer that question. "Science is powerful and wonderful in determining the orbit of the Earth, the speed of a bullet, the power of a new drug. But now we've asked science to study something that occurs outside of space and time.

"This shows you shouldn't try to prove the power of the supernatural," he said.

According to you, it's not occuring outside of space and time. You have said prayer has tangible results here on Earth, therefore inside sace and time, therefore you should be able to measure any results quite easily.

Yahwe · 19 Apr 2006, 01:10

There are two types of modern christian.

The first type uses highly educated scholars and the established doctrines of their respective churches to re-interpret biblical lessons responding to theological problems which come from our greater understanding of the world..

The second type (called evangelicals) believe that the better theological response is to put your fingers in your ears, stick out your tongue and loudly recite "it's all true it's all true! even the bits which contradict the other bits! you're all going to hell!"

We need to understand this distinction when talking to travler.

Travler · 19 Apr 2006, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

According to you, it's not occuring outside of space and time. You have said prayer has tangible results here on Earth, therefore inside sace and time, therefore you should be able to measure any results quite easily.

some prayers have tangible results. Others are not easily seen as in the case of healing. The problem is that people expect the same thing to work the same way everytime but its not about rituals or methods, it's about personal faith and a relationship with God.

Travler · 19 Apr 2006, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

There are two types of modern christian.

The first type uses highly educated scholars and the established doctrines of their respective churches to re-interpret biblical lessons responding to theological problems which come from our greater understanding of the world..

The second type (called evangelicals) believe that the better theological response is to put your fingers in your ears, stick out your tongue and loudly recite "it's all true it's all true! even the bits which contradict the other bits! you're all going to hell!"

We need to understand this distinction when talking to travler.

Preach on Brother Preach on. You will make a great minister and evangelist one day. God believes in you.

Yahwe · 19 Apr 2006, 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

some prayers have tangible results. Others are not easily seen as in the case of healing. The problem is that people expect the same thing to work the same way everytime but its not about rituals or methods, it's about personal faith and a relationship with God.

god prefers some mortals to other mortals?

are you africa-bashing again?

Travler · 19 Apr 2006, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

god prefers some mortals to other mortals?

are you africa-bashing again?

It would seem obvious that some find the favor of God. But Job was preferred and God allowed the devil to torment him repeatedly. All that believe are preferred and those that do not believe are not noticed.

No bashing of any type. I would not try to steal that Glory away from you Yahwe.

Yahwe · 19 Apr 2006, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

It would seem obvious that some find the favor of God. But Job was preferred and God allowed the devil to torment him repeatedly. All that believe are preferred and those that do not believe are not noticed.

you are essentially a jew with the awfulness of the book of revelations and without the wisdom of the yeshiva or rabbinical teaching.

the rest of josua bar-joseph's teachings just seem to have passed you by.

Travler · 19 Apr 2006, 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

you are essentially a jew with the awfulness of the book of revelations and without the wisdom of the yeshiva or rabbinical teaching.

the rest of josua bar-joseph's teachings just seem to have passed you by.

My wife has asked that I type the following:

Dear wankers, being a Londoner myself, I am grossly ashamed of my fellow brits behaviour. If my husband offends your delicate sensibilities, then why chuck a wobbly if you feel he is in error?

Relax and I will remind my husband that grown adults do not negotiate with terrorists or children. Goodnight, God bless, and cheers.

XeeThot · 19 Apr 2006, 01:40

Where are the satanist posts?

Yahwe · 19 Apr 2006, 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

My wife has asked that I type the following:

Dear wankers, being a Londoner myself, I am grossly ashamed of my fellow brits behaviour. If my husband offends your delicate sensibilities, then why chuck a wobbly if you feel he is in error?

Relax and I will remind my husband that grown adults do not negotiate with terrorists or children. Goodnight, God bless, and cheers.

'chuck a wobbly'? when did she leave 1842?

however

Dear Madam

This is a community of curious people. We base our ideas on logic and we enjoy learning new ideas as well as being exposed to cotrardictory viewpoints.

However your husband is extolling radical and extreme religious views. He has so far ignored all counter arguments set before him. He has furthermore said some things (without ever backing them up) which people have (unsurprisingly) found offensive. I do not intend to repeat those awful things because I would not wish to distress a lady.

There is no need to tell anyone here to 'relax'. the members of this community can make sloths appear energetic.

I fear you are the victim of subjective information. If you would prefer to gain a more rounded picture then please enter the debate yourself.

Kind regards,

Yahwe, MA (oxon), of Gray's Inn, Barrister

Demon Dave · 19 Apr 2006, 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

the members of this community can make sloths appear energetic.

coffee- · 19 Apr 2006, 06:22

[green blob] travler 18 Apr 2006 19:15 He made the tree that made the cross that Jesus died on for our sins - travler.

Cannon_Fodder · 19 Apr 2006, 10:30

I'm sure he's a gimmick. No-one can realistically be that pity worthy.

MrL_JaKiri · 19 Apr 2006, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

some prayers have tangible results.

You mean the ones that, statistically, would have had that many "positive" results irrespective of the prayers?

Ramihyn · 19 Apr 2006, 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

You mean the ones that, statistically, would have had that many "positive" results irrespective of the prayers?

Some years ago i did a bit of research about self-healing and placebo effects.

The most impressive i did read was about a person who had severe cancer in an advanced state and no medical treatment did work anymore. Then one day he showed up with medical magazine talking about a new super-drug against cancer, his doctor read about it and thought it was a "hoax" to make easy money from desperate people but to not disappoint a patient who had no other hope left, he said it sounded promising. The patient took the "medication" which was severly hyped in the media and the cancer inside his body stagnated and then started to shrink. The doctor was amazed and documented the whole process - over time the cancer nearly completely disappeared.

Then the inevitable happened and studies revealed that the new drug was basically medically useless. The patient did read about it, the cancer fully came back and he died within weeks.

Self-healing seems to be widely existent and can occasionally be very powerful. Now imagine what happened if this person didnt believe in a new drug but believed in some type of religion - tons of people would take it as evidence of a miracle because they simply want to.

I guess it takes a stronger psyche to life without "knowing" a superior beeing is watching over you. Just talk with people about death and hear how irrationall many people are about it deep inside of them. The thought that their life may just end and thats it - there is no big party at the end and nobody rates your living and offers a bonus life - seems to be very difficult to many. I guess that just shows how self-centered many people are - they cant imagine the "universe" ISNT caring about them

MrL_JaKiri · 19 Apr 2006, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramihyn

Some years ago i did a bit of research about self-healing and placebo effects.

Source, especially given that one rather curious example, assuming true, doesn't really weigh into the double blind trials described earlier?

JonnyBGood · 19 Apr 2006, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

Dear wankers, being a Londoner myself, I am grossly ashamed of my fellow brits behaviour. If my husband offends your delicate sensibilities, then why chuck a wobbly if you feel he is in error?

Relax and I will remind my husband that grown adults do not negotiate with terrorists or children. Goodnight, God bless, and cheers.

r u hot?

Travler · 19 Apr 2006, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

r u hot?

P.H.A.T.

JonnyBGood · 19 Apr 2006, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

P.H.A.T.

No thanks then, I don't do fatties.

lokken · 19 Apr 2006, 15:16

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to JonnyBGood again.

Travler · 9 Jul 2006, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramihyn

Some years ago i did a bit of research about self-healing and placebo effects.

The most impressive i did read was about a person who had severe cancer in an advanced state and no medical treatment did work anymore. Then one day he showed up with medical magazine talking about a new super-drug against cancer, his doctor read about it and thought it was a "hoax" to make easy money from desperate people but to not disappoint a patient who had no other hope left, he said it sounded promising. The patient took the "medication" which was severly hyped in the media and the cancer inside his body stagnated and then started to shrink. The doctor was amazed and documented the whole process - over time the cancer nearly completely disappeared.

Then the inevitable happened and studies revealed that the new drug was basically medically useless. The patient did read about it, the cancer fully came back and he died within weeks.

Self-healing seems to be widely existent and can occasionally be very powerful. Now imagine what happened if this person didnt believe in a new drug but believed in some type of religion - tons of people would take it as evidence of a miracle because they simply want to.

I guess it takes a stronger psyche to life without "knowing" a superior beeing is watching over you. Just talk with people about death and hear how irrationall many people are about it deep inside of them. The thought that their life may just end and thats it - there is no big party at the end and nobody rates your living and offers a bonus life - seems to be very difficult to many. I guess that just shows how self-centered many people are - they cant imagine the "universe" ISNT caring about them

I would be more than happy to stop existing the day I die. Unfortunately I know there is an afterlife and since we must either choose heaven and Jesus and servitude to him and be blessed for it or we must not choose and suffer in the lake of fire. We can of course choose hell but there are just a limited few Devil Worshippers that truely hope to burn in Hell.

My Choice would be to just rot and push up daisies but alas I am not the creator and cannot create a reality to suit me personally.

Yahwe · 9 Jul 2006, 23:46

Clause 5 : Spamming

Spamming is a difficult topic to define and as such i will not attempt to tie this subject down to specific catagories. Spam is quite simply the posting of irrelevancies. It is the posting of topics which have no discussion potential or the posting of individual replies which do not add to a current discussion but only seek to increase a post count and/or undermine a thread of a serious discussion. The bumping of old threads, which serves no useful purpose, is not acceptable and all "bumping" is done
under moderator discretion.

Travler · 10 Jul 2006, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe

Clause 5 : Spamming

Spamming is a difficult topic to define and as such i will not attempt to tie this subject down to specific catagories. Spam is quite simply the posting of irrelevancies. It is the posting of topics which have no discussion potential or the posting of individual replies which do not add to a current discussion but only seek to increase a post count and/or undermine a thread of a serious discussion. The bumping of old threads, which serves no useful purpose, is not acceptable and all "bumping" is done
under moderator discretion.

Not trying to "Bump" a thread. Just was looking for a post and ran across something that needed to be answered. Of course you are always looking to be as hostile as possible.

Travler · 10 Jul 2006, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Surely if God wanted to prove he was right, he could come down from the heavens to convince us?

Jesus already came to earth. You chose to ignore the sacrifice he made for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Jesus could arrive on earth and show us those scars, those wounds from the cross. Why is God such a bastard that he permits Doubting Thomas, who, let us not forget, was around, supposedly, at the time of Jesus' miracles, a free ticket into heaven, but not the rest of us?

It's called free will and it is available to all who choose to believe and ask Jesus to come into their hearts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Let me see the marks of the nails, let me touch them and put my hand in the wound at his side.

If you have to wait until this time to get the "Proof" you need it will be too late.

One day all the Christians and true believers will disappear. A so-called savior will arrive and everyone will think that he is the truth. This man will be the anti-christ. He will try to brand everyone with his mark and those that are branded will be doomed to hell. Jesus will return and vanquish the enemy for once and all. Those that are called, choosen, and faithfull will be rewarded in heaven. God will not have mercy on the rest.

Don't be on the wrong side when this happens. It will be horrible and I would not wish it on any of you. I pray that you learn the truth of the Love of Lord before it is too late. God gave his only son so that we would be saved. Nothing but Jesus can provide that salvation. Please know that God loves you and wants to see you home.

Demon Dave · 10 Jul 2006, 00:38

If "God" really does love us, why would he not have mercy for us? Why would there a "Hell" in the first place?

Travler · 10 Jul 2006, 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demon Dave

If "God" really does love us, why would he not have mercy for us? Why would there a "Hell" in the first place?

To give you a choice.

s|k · 10 Jul 2006, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler

To give you a choice.

That's not really a choice is it. It is like holding a gun up to someone's head and saying you can love me and I'll give you $1k or you can chose not to love me and I'll blow your brains out. Heaven or hell, some choice. <sarcasm> I pick eternity of pain and suffering over heaven any day!</sarcasm>.

Treveler · 10 Jul 2006, 01:31

Can God make a stone so big even he can’t lift it?

Can God slam a revolving door?

Will that poor sod of a Native American who live in the jungle and has never heard of God burn in hell for eternity? What about young children dieing?

Does God enjoy himself watching little kiddies getting raped while knowing he can do something about it and yet chose inaction?

And God see his friends walk in front of busses every day and he don’t lift a finger.