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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 08:55   #1
Rumad
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BNP program on beeb one

BNP uncovered for racists hey are. But where will it leave them - do you think the television coverage will gain them more or less votes?

The speeches and the type of sentiment they raise showed the lack of intlligence these guys have, but will they appeal to the working class masses or just dwindle away now that they have been uncovered?
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:00   #2
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

I don't think anyone actually doubted.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:05   #3
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

You're presuming that their supporters don't feel the same way. Many of them do.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:11   #4
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

People who vote for the BNP either know what they're voting for or are incredibly naive.
And there's not many incredibly naive people left in this cruel, cruel world of ours. Well, apart from those that believed that Saddam had WMDs, but that's a different story.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:11   #5
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

As MrL said, its not like many people had doubts that the BNP was racist, and I think their most of their supporters are probably comfortable with that. While its possible that some people support them solely because they're partial to left-wing authoritarianism, I would assume that the majority do so due to some form of xenophobia.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:20   #6
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

round here the BNP managed to get an asian guy to support them publicly, which was quite funny
missed the program unfortunately, but someone at work taped it so they are going to lend me it
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:24   #7
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
As MrL said, its not like many people had doubts that the BNP was racist, and I think their most of their supporters are probably comfortable with that. While its possible that some people support them solely because they're partial to left-wing authoritarianism, I would assume that the majority do so due to some form of xenophobia.
I don't diagree with what you say, but like new labour did, BNP recently have ben campaigning not necessarily on racist issues or xenophobia but on practical local issues. This has seen them gain some more main stream support as the stigma attached to supporting a nationalist party diminishes. I do think they will always have a hardcore of support of the issues they champion, but I was wondeirng if they would actually get more votes from the television exposure.

I saw a view on channel four news before the progam and that they (the BNP) attempted to get as much national exposure as possible as any publicity as good publicity.

Also this rise in the percentage of people voting for the extreme right is it because they are getting more organised or because general anti-sematism is on the rise in the uk?
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:29   #8
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

I think any rise for extremist parties stems from mainstream parties being utterly shit.

Also, the press (and the politicians themselves) carry on a completley unrealistic rhetoric regarding things like immigration. If you follow the simplistic "immigration = bad" line carried by most then the BNP and their ilk are the most logical policies to adopt.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:32   #9
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I think any rise for extremist parties stems from mainstream parties being utterly shit.

Also, the press (and the politicians themselves) carry on a completley unrealistic rhetoric regarding things like immigration. If you follow the simplistic "immigration = bad" line carried by most then the BNP and their ilk are the most logical policies to adopt.
wow, you were editing as i pressed the quotre button!

back to the point though:
i think you are right here, its the dissilusionment with the main parties that is causing this rise, people are looking for something to believe in and, unfortunately, some of them are latching onto the BNP's more moderate policies
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 09:36   #10
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Everyone should vote LibDem, because I want to know if they actually think their policies through, or just go the 'It doesn't matter! It's a libdem policy!' route.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 10:51   #11
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

i would vote libdem, if i could be bothered to vote
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 10:58   #12
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
its the dissilusionment with the main parties that is causing this rise
I wouldnt agree completely. Its more to do with a lot of disagreement with the way immigrants and the like are dealt with, especially in places like Burnley after the race riots a few years ago. I know a fair few people that vote BNP and they dont do it because they are worried about the 3 main parties stance on the Iraq war or how they deal with schools/NHS etc.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 11:02   #13
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
I wouldnt agree completely. Its more to do with a lot of disagreement with the way immigrants and the like are dealt with,
Yes, but this might seem like stating the obvious but if anyone of the three main parties had a different approach to immigration then not many people would bother with the BNP.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 11:13   #14
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

The BNP recently had a push over here in Ireland to try to get us to vote 'yes' in referendum on citizenship. Basically the referendum was about changing the automatic right that people born in Ireland had to be citizens.

It was a big red flag the government put up, with threats of black babies mobbing our hospitals and schools if we didn’t act, to distract us from the local and european elections that were on the same day and where they were about to get a hammering. We were going to punish them for all the lies they said during the last general election.

They were punished but the issues of the elections were never discussed because most attention was focused on this referendum.

Anyway, we had the BNP over on national radio and taking out full-page ad’s in the paper urging Irish people to vote ‘Yes’ and to send them money!

The irony of the BNP coming here telling us about horrible immigrants who’ll ruin our precious white country while they were opposing benefits for Irish immigrants in England was funny.
Thing is, it showed that us Irish are only just above the blacks in the racist english mind and that white immigrants are marginally better than black ones.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:46   #15
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

It was a blow to the BNP because they were trying to go a bit more mainstream.
And get more people to vote for them.
And you can't really be thought as a naziesq party if your trying to get into the mainstream.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:47   #16
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumad
I don't diagree with what you say, but like new labour did, BNP recently have ben campaigning not necessarily on racist issues or xenophobia but on practical local issues.
Yes, but the main 'local issue' is '******S ARE USING OUR HOSPITALS AND COUNCIL HOUSES!'
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:52   #17
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Anyway they suck.
BNP's approach was tried before. It didnt work for Hitler.
Still find it funny that one of the only countries that didnt get ****ed by Hitler gets its own hitleresq party. Weeee.
Well France has got their own as well i suppose.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:54   #18
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
while they were opposing benefits for Irish immigrants in England
What?
Quote:
Thing is, it showed that us Irish are only just above the blacks in the racist english mind and that white immigrants are marginally better than black ones.
Oh no, they're not condemning people solely by the colour of their skin!
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 12:57   #19
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Octagonecologyst
Anyway they suck.
BNP's approach was tried before. It didnt work for Hitler.
Still find it funny that one of the only countries that didnt get ****ed by Hitler gets its own hitleresq party. Weeee.
Well France has got their own as well i suppose.
the nazis are repopulating every country in europe. it's too late to hope for anything except lynch mob eugenics.

incidentally, iirc the BNP got about 10% of the vote in one of the MEP districts (East Midlands?). THAT is scary.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:01   #20
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
The irony of the BNP coming here telling us about horrible immigrants who’ll ruin our precious white country while they were opposing benefits for Irish immigrants in England was funny.
Although I know what you mean there is no inconsistency here. They want Irish people to stay in Ireland, British people to stay in Britain, Nigerians to stay in Nigeria, etc, etc.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:02   #21
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Dr. Octagonecologyst
BNP's approach was tried before. It didnt work for Hitler..
Well, it depends. If the BNP's goal is to get into power then I think you'll find Hitler's strategy worked quite well.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:03   #22
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

I saw it. I was disgusted. Not surprised. They're like the Nazi's in my mind - trying a form of eugienics and triggering racial hate which saw the downfall of the Nazi empire as we all know. Why they are allowed to exist as a party baffles me. It angers me enough to step-up into the politics world and bat the Griffin leader with a baseball bat if I won an election over him rather than give a speech, speech.

The sooner he realises these people are occupy some of the top jobs in terms of helping other such as hospitals, accountants etc. I'm guessing his hatred stems originally from jealousy - where has this occured previously in history?

I heard recently that a BNP member supposedly, upon going to his doctor complaining of a stomach bug, when seen by a Muslim doctor, said all of a sudden "I'm fine now, don't worry". Co-incedence? I don't think so.

Being half-asian, I have a strong turkish kind of complexion. If I go into a mainly white-living population/town, most looks are stares like as in a shock kind of thing - some are "bloody paki" even although I'm not pakistani. While most of you may disagree with my view, but I hate white people unless I know them. Rather than vent my disliking publically, I keep it to myself unless I am faced with a confrontation (and before you ask, yes, I am half-white).

All I'll say is, it's no surprise with the way BNP are acting that sooner or later they will be attacked by mobs of people. I'd love to gather all half-casts, storm up to him and ask what he thinks should happen to us and notices whether any of us aren't actually muslim. I'd then blind-fold myself and attempt to chainsaw him in 3.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:06   #23
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
I'd love to gather all half-casts, storm up to him and ask what he thinks should happen to us and notices whether any of us aren't actually muslim. I'd then blind-fold myself and attempt to chainsaw him in 3.
So what you're saying is that you want to kill people based on the opinions they hold, right?
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:08   #24
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
So what you're saying is that you want to kill people based on the opinions they hold, right?
If they're repeated themselves 22 times "I'm going to blow-up a mosque", yes.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:13   #25
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Androme2
If they're repeated themselves 22 times "I'm going to blow-up a mosque", yes.
I'm going to blow up a mosque
I'm going to blow up a mosque
....
Imagine I've done that twenty more times. Do you want to kill me now?

If we don't believe in free speech for our worst enemies, etc, etc...
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:47   #26
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

do they actually play a part in elections? (the BNP)

ps: i dont know much about your political system, but from what i learned in school you have 2 party blair and thatcher (cant remember how they are called) and the rest is unimportant.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 13:51   #27
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin
ps: i dont know much about your political system, but from what i learned in school you have 2 party blair and thatcher (cant remember how they are called) and the rest is unimportant.
Pretty much true on a national scale. Only two parties can realistically gain power - the Conservatives (Thatcher) and the Labour Party (Blair). The third party (Liberal Democrats) and some regional parties do win some seats, but they can't really do much.

On a local level things are much more fluid as you only need a couple of thousand votes (if that) to win seats on local councils and such. The BNP have gained some success here. It doesn't really matter as local councils have very little autonomy, but people still get worried.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 14:09   #28
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Pretty much true on a national scale. Only two parties can realistically gain power - the Conservatives (Thatcher) and the Labour Party (Blair). The third party (Liberal Democrats) and some regional parties do win some seats, but they can't really do much.
Strongly disagree. I reckon they'll become the second party of opposition either at this election or the next. Yesterday's by-elections had the Lib Dems winning in the cities which is highly unusual. Labour took a hammering. I don't see the Tories holding onto anything outside Southern, upper-class rural areas by 2010.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 14:14   #29
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Phang
Strongly disagree. I reckon they'll become the second party of opposition either at this election or the next. Yesterday's by-elections had the Lib Dems winning in the cities which is highly unusual. Labour took a hammering. I don't see the Tories holding onto anything outside Southern, upper-class rural areas by 2010.
So if the Labour Party are taking a hammering and the Tories are losing control of anywhere outside of the South (although I'm not sure what you mean by upper class) then who are the Lib Dems an opposition to?

The electoral system means that even if the Lib Dems strongly increased their vote they'd still be pretty much irrelevent. Unless the Labour Party changes the electoral system I can't see that changing (unless we had a hung parliament). By-elections are often seen as a protest vote anyway, so I don't think you can draw anything meaningful from that.

edit : All of this is irrelevent anyway as he was asking for a current/past analysis not speculation on 2010.

Last edited by Dante Hicks; 16 Jul 2004 at 14:19.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 15:35   #30
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

The best thing about a non-PR system of voting is that once you're in power and have the ability to change the format you won't want to change the format as it'd diminish the number of seats you hold in parliament. As such worrying about the BNP is fairly pointless as they're not going to get into power. Worry about health, education, public transport and taxation instead.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 15:43   #31
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

In the future everyone will be white.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 15:50   #32
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

The future's bright.







The future's orange!
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 15:51   #33
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
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In the future everyone will be white.
More like brown.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 15:55   #34
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
More like brown.


You obviously haven't heard my MASTER* PLAN.

At the moment fluorine is added to the water to make everyone's teeth strong and bright.

I propose that in the future bleach shall also be added to the water.

The bleach will turn everyone white (like it did to Jacko).

In the future, when everyone is white, there shall be no more racial discrimination.










*race
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 15:58   #35
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

There are a couple of white (albino) "black" (African) people I see in Brixton ocassionally.

That is some scary shit. Their hair looks ginger but they have "black" facial features.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 15:58   #36
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I'm going to blow up a mosque
I'm going to blow up a mosque
....
Imagine I've done that twenty more times. Do you want to kill me now?

If we don't believe in free speech for our worst enemies, etc, etc...
No. Don't be an idiot. If you saw the program, the person said it with such emphasis and said he truely would do it - considering the racial hatred and fight they stirred in Bradford, I don't see them not blowing up a mosque.

These are neo-nazis in non-Deutsche form. Nazis started off small, then grew. I can imagine the same thing happening if the bloody police don't do something. The evidence on the tape by Nick Griffin broke the Public Act Section 18 or some law - has the police done anything since? No. Is the law pressing down hard on the BNP? Um... no. Surely they're breaching some form of the Geneva Convention? Well may be they are but I doubt it as I don't have enough knowledge on it.

All in all, the BNP stands for "Britain, Not Pakis" imo - not the British National Party.

FFs.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 16:04   #37
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
The evidence on the tape by Nick Griffin broke the Public Act Section 18 or some law - has the police done anything since? No. Is the law pressing down hard on the BNP? Um... no. Surely they're breaching some form of the Geneva Convention? Well may be they are but I doubt it as I don't have enough knowledge on it.
Any laws restricting free speech should be abolished. Yes, it is illegal to make racially inflammatory statements but it shouldn't be.
Quote:
All in all, the BNP stands for "Britain, Not Pakis" imo - not the British National Party.
Yes the BNP are evil scum but that's completley irrelevent when it comes to restricting freedoms.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 16:16   #38
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

hmm, there was a similar program to this, except with oppostie views, ie it was showing how racist the "blacks/asians" are, but it wasn't allowed to be aired, as it was "racist"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
All in all, the BNP stands for "Britain, Not Pakis" imo - not the British National Party.
hmm, well, seeing as they make up the majority of non-british inhabitants then it might seem like they target them specifically, but the BNP is opposed to anyone who isnt British infact, not just the Pakis....

oh and JC`: Burnley 0wn \o/
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 19:20   #39
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Colt
hmm, there was a similar program to this, except with oppostie views, ie it was showing how racist the "blacks/asians" are, but it wasn't allowed to be aired, as it was "racist"



hmm, well, seeing as they make up the majority of non-british inhabitants then it might seem like they target them specifically, but the BNP is opposed to anyone who isnt British infact, not just the Pakis....

oh and JC`: Burnley 0wn \o/
if you're talking about the channel 4 program about asian men plying young teenage girls with drugs and using them for sex etc. then it is going to be shown, it was postponed because the police asked for it to be because it may have increased racial tension at that time.

and actually, the bnp rather like our white brothers in europe, america and the empire. it really is just the brown people they dont like (except for maybe a couple of sikhs who for some reason are a bit more acceptable, but only just) visit stormfront if you dont believe me.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 22:07   #40
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Androme2
No. Don't be an idiot.
No, you're the idiot. First of all, you argue vehemently against the BNP because they would like to murder people, and then seriously state that you would like to murder them. Secondly, you argue that we should ban the BNP simply because you dislike their views. Thirdly, you preposterously compare the situation in Weimar Germany to present-day Britain, even though JBG has already highlighted a key difference between the two - the contrasting electoral systems. FPTP all but ensures that a Nazi-style rise to power would be impossible in the UK, as small parties are unable to gain seats due to the lack of proportionality. Additionally, the Nazis only attained power because Hitler was appointed Chancellor by President Hindenburg despite never having gained more than 30-odd% of votes, whereas in the UK such power can only be gained through leadership of the party with the most seats, which will never be the BNP (firstly because of the electoral system and secondly because unlike in Weimar Germany, which was still racked by the Great Depression, there is not sufficient social strife in the UK for such an extreme party to gain even 30% of votes, which as I say wouldn't be sufficient here anyway). Fourthly, you state the following: "is the law pressing down hard on the BNP? Um... no" despite the fact that just days ago David Blunkett announced that he's going to restrict free speech even further than it already has been by introducing another overblown law designed to limit individual liberty, this time aimed against 'incitement to religious hatred'. Last time I checked, incitement to religious hatred is exactly what you are complaining about, and yet you also moan that nothing is being done.

Anyway, in conclusion, down with the state etc...
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 22:56   #41
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Nondescript Human
Additionally, the Nazis only attained power because Hitler was appointed Chancellor by President Hindenburg despite never having gained more than 30-odd% of votes, whereas in the UK such power can only be gained through leadership of the party with the most seats, which will never be the BNP (firstly because of the electoral system and secondly because unlike in Weimar Germany, which was still racked by the Great Depression, there is not sufficient social strife in the UK for such an extreme party to gain even 30% of votes, which as I say wouldn't be sufficient here anyway).
The Nazi party received 37% of the vote in the July 1932 elections and as they were the largest single party, it was entirely reasonable that they get the Chancellorship in a coalition government. Hindenburg refused to give Hitler the Chancellorship and so the Nazis refused to join a ruling coalition. The other parties could not hold a coalition together, and so elections were held again in November. In the November elections, the Nazis only got 33% percent of the vote, but they were still the larges single party and Hindenberg finally offered Hitler the Chancellorship.
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Unread 16 Jul 2004, 23:30   #42
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Tactitus
The Nazi party received 37% of the vote in the July 1932 elections and as they were the largest single party, it was entirely reasonable that they get the Chancellorship in a coalition government. Hindenburg refused to give Hitler the Chancellorship and so the Nazis refused to join a ruling coalition. The other parties could not hold a coalition together, and so elections were held again in November. In the November elections, the Nazis only got 33% percent of the vote, but they were still the larges single party and Hindenberg finally offered Hitler the Chancellorship.
Yes, the Nazis won the most votes (and therefore under the Weimar system the most seats) but 33% of votes wouldn't necessarily be enough to make the BNP the largest party in the Commons, even if no other party gained more votes. My point was that while 33% of votes was enough to gain power in 1933 Weimar, it wouldn't be in today's UK. Also, as I said, there are several other things which completely invalidate Androme's comparision of Weimar and the UK.
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Unread 17 Jul 2004, 00:13   #43
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Exclamation Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Nondescript Human
Yes, the Nazis won the most votes (and therefore under the Weimar system the most seats) but 33% of votes wouldn't necessarily be enough to make the BNP the largest party in the Commons, even if no other party gained more votes.
Not necessarily; but it would be possible.
Quote:
My point was that while 33% of votes was enough to gain power in 1933 Weimar, it wouldn't be in today's UK.
I think that would depend entirely on where the other votes went.
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Unread 17 Jul 2004, 01:20   #44
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Re: BNP program on beeb one

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Originally Posted by Androme2
All I'll say is, it's no surprise with the way BNP are acting that sooner or later they will be attacked by mobs of people. I'd love to gather all half-casts, storm up to him and ask what he thinks should happen to us and notices whether any of us aren't actually muslim. I'd then blind-fold myself and attempt to chainsaw him in 3.
And that's exactly what they want, could you imagine what would happen if mobs of non white people began attacking mobs of white people ? It would provoke panic, fear and would lead to even greater support for the BNP. A race war would be the BNP's wet dream as numerically it wouldn't be very hard for the white majority to win and then they’d be able to achieve their aims without ever having much popular support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
These are neo-nazis in non-Deutsche form. Nazis started off small, then grew. I can imagine the same thing happening if the bloody police don't do something. The evidence on the tape by Nick Griffin broke the Public Act Section 18 or some law - has the police done anything since? No. Is the law pressing down hard on the BNP? Um... no. Surely they're breaching some form of the Geneva Convention? Well may be they are but I doubt it as I don't have enough knowledge on it.
So basically say people can't hold an opinion if it's likely to offend anyone ? I think what the BNP has to say is pretty disgusting but I think they should be allowed to say it. Despite the media scare mongering the BNP are nothing more than a fringe group, they have a few councillors, so what ? Very few normal people seriously care what a bunch of knuckle draggers think ("No surrender to the IRA !" I mean what the hell ?) by scare mongering and pushing them into the lime light the media only succeeds in feeding the fire of the BNP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Androme2
While most of you may disagree with my view, but I hate white people unless I know them. Rather than vent my disliking publically, I keep it to myself unless I am faced with a confrontation.
To be honest you sound just as bad as them. The first defence of a racist is always “some of my best friends are <insert race/religion/skin colour>”.

In reply to the first post I doubt it will decrease their support, in fact quite the opposite I'm sure a few people will be drawn to them for the views they expressed in the program but not too many, I find it very hard to believe that anyone who votes for the BNP doesn't know exactly what they're voting for, largely it's urban white poor who feel let down by the state in favour of what they perceive as aliens, they’ve not been tricked by the BNP they know exactly what they're doing. The program will just be added to the pile of evidence, which stops anyone with half a brain voting for a bunch of racists.

On a lighter note I'm still laughing at that scruffy fat **** with the beard ? What a loser.
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Unread 17 Jul 2004, 15:16   #45
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Exclamation Re: BNP program on beeb one

Why do they bother making these programmes? What's the point? All it does is provide an ego-boost and undue publicity to The BNP. We know that they are Neo-Fascists. So I ask again, what's the point?

They are not a serious political force, and they never will be. The only real threat they pose is through the potential for localised racist violence, and that is hardly enough to warrant the national spotlight to the extent that they do.

It was ridiculous how people classed this as some sort of of groundbreaking piece of investigative journalism, when all it was a confirmation of what we already knew, albeit done by a mainstream media organisation like The BBC.
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