Dr Who (Spoilers)

[Deepflow]

for anyone else who just watched the last episode... what did you think?

personally, i thought it was a really cool episode... the ending was slightly logically flawed and ended up by saying "oh we forgot to mention it but looking into the tardis thing can make you omnipotent lol".

the fighting on the ship was great, especially the way everyone died, don't often see that on primetime tv, or on most tv at all even. Billions of people on the earth still died because as far as i can make out rose only brought jack back to life, although i suppose she could have done everyone else and it wouldn't mention it, but that would just be stupid.

still, can't wait for the next series.

also, the new doctor, i can't really decide about him yet, could be good Then again, he only said 1 line so its a bit early to judge.

can't wait for the next series though

[MrL_JaKiri]

Russell T Davies is a writer who could be quite good had he not got it into his head that he was the Be All and End All of TV writers, and doesn't need things like "editors". If you notice an episode by Russell T Davies has a lot of dead time in it, that's because he didn't write the episode long enough, and, because they couldn't change it, they had to fill the episode with stuff somehow.

[roadrunner_0]

basically what you said... very much enjoyed it though

going to be buying it on dvd as have missed quite a lot of the series

[lokken]

the anne robinson 'you are the weakest link' robot getting her head shot off was fantastic

[Vaio]

I wasn't sure what to make of Ecclestone before the new series started but I have been very pleasantly surprised by his 'interpretation' of the Dr. A shame he didn't make more but new bloke could be just as good.

The episode was great.

[KaneED]

The doctor regenerating this seies may lead to a precedent of the doctor changing every series now.

It may mean it goes on for a while longer, or it may die on its feet because of the lack of continuity.

[ChubbyChecker]

The adverts looked cool, I forgot to watch it though.
I've only seen one episode so hopefully I can download the whole series somewhere.

[Yahwe]

I love, repeat love the fact that russell t davies never misses an opportunity to forward gay rights.

none of you even commented on the most important thing: that captain chap kissed rose, the same way he kissed the doctor.

this is how biggotry is ended.

there is a great deal of power in stories.

[Apothos]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

none of you even commented on the most important thing: that captain chap kissed rose, the same way he kissed the doctor.

And Cap'n Jack flirting with the TV producer guy last week.

Noone batting an eye-lid about it is probably the greatest compliment.

[Yahwe]

i love it. sexual equality at 7pm during family viewing.

should give some positive role models to the young

'bout bloody time!

[Deffeh]

shittedy shit shit shittaroo. Thank the lord this disaster is finally over, that was some of the worst TV i've ever suffered through. I wish i was one of these fags who goes out on saturdays so i wouldnt have caught any of it.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by KaneED

The doctor regenerating this seies may lead to a precedent of the doctor changing every series now.

Given that the next one is signed up for 2 series, it won't.

Originally Posted by Yahwe

I love, repeat love the fact that russell t davies never misses an opportunity to forward gay rights.

Oh come off it, he acts in a kind of "only gay in the village" way.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Oh come off it, he acts in a kind of "only gay in the village" way.

he's writing the stories mark.

that's what matters.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

he's writing the stories mark.

that's what matters.

I really wish he didn't, they're almost entirely dreadful, and, even when they are good, show extremely poor construction.

[Yahwe]

I'm sure your expert criticism will be of great concern to him.

he's resurected a dead programme and he's written 2 other independant series both of which represent the finest in british television.

you don't have to like the man (he is fat after all). but you can't denegrate his work.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

I'm sure your expert criticism will be of great concern to him.

There are many things wrong with The Phatom Menace, but just because George Lucas didn't care doesn't mean it's irrelevent when discussing the quality of the piece in question.

In fact, what the author thinks has buggery **** to do with anything.

[quote=Yahwe]he's resurected a dead programme and he's written 2 other independant series both of which represent the finest in british television.[/QUOTE

I've no idea what series you're talking about, and resurrecting a dead program isn't worth the bother if something productive doesn't come out of it.

[quote=Yahweyou don't have to like the man (he is fat after all). but you can't denegrate his work.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to criticise the eminently criticisable.

The best thing you can really say about him is that he wasn't responsible for "Father's Day" which was probably the worst episode of the series.

[Androme]

Originally Posted by Deffeh

shittedy shit shit shittaroo. Thank the lord this disaster is finally over, that was some of the worst TV i've ever suffered through. I wish i was one of these fags who goes out on saturdays so i wouldnt have caught any of it.

I am nodding in agreement.

I think the solution to the problem was very cheesy and the fact he had to change but was still alive, how the ability to suck up time - why Dr. Who is the only one with the potential to control time- why he was given this ability and so fourth.

The other episodes I really enjoyed but this just sucked despite the hype.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Androme2

I am nodding in agreement.

I think the solution to the problem was very cheesy and the fact he had to change but was still alive, how the ability to suck up time - why Dr. Who is the only one with the potential to control time- why he was given this ability and so fourth.

The other episodes I really enjoyed but this just sucked despite the hype.

It was much better when they didn't pay attention to the paradoxes created by time travel because you can't really use that as a plot hole when it's irrelevent to the show. Alas, not now.

[Yahwe]

[quote=MrL_JaKiri]There are many things wrong with The Phatom Menace, but just because George Lucas didn't care doesn't mean it's irrelevent when discussing the quality of the piece in question.

In fact, what the author thinks has buggery **** to do with anything.

Originally Posted by Yahwe

he's resurected a dead programme and he's written 2 other independant series both of which represent the finest in british television.[/QUOTE

I've no idea what series you're talking about, and resurrecting a dead program isn't worth the bother if something productive doesn't come out of it.



I'm sorry, I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to criticise the eminently criticisable.

The best thing you can really say about him is that he wasn't responsible for "Father's Day" which was probably the worst episode of the series.

errrr....

no

the best thing you can say about him is what i said

that he tirelessly works to fight biggotry and that i have no doubt that his way of fighting it will actually succeed

i'm not going to nit pick with you. it detracts from the point... the point i had.... before you did your usual nit picking bollocks.

the phrase 'wood for the trees' means nothing to you does it?

[JBOY]

Now, heres the thing.

I was working tonight. So, whilst I've not really seen a lot of the new series, i did see last weeks episode.

So, having realised I missed a potentially interesting programme, I clicked on this thread, hoping for actual spoilers.

And now, I am very disappointed.


would someone, anyone, be so kind as to actually type up what happened, instead of vague mentions of good bits and some bizarre argument.

pretty please :O(

[Yahwe]

get free view

watch the repeats.

[Apothos]

The Doctor and Captain Jack take the Tardis to the Dalek ship where Rose is and rescus her. Using a force-field of some kind, they are able to walk around the ship just outside the tardis where they discover the Dalek Emperor, who thinks he's god because (apart from being mad) he has been creating daleks out of dead humans (the ones from the game shows), all of which have all gone a bit barmy because they've been in hiding on their tod for 200 years and think he's god too.

After a breif chat, where the god and barmby bits are discovered, and also that the reason the daleks survived the time-war was because the Emperor's ship escaped, they jump back into the Tardis and go back to the space station (Orbital 5 was it called?).

There, they find not everyone has been evacuated and that the Dalek fleet is incoming. So they reconfigure this force-field so the top few floors of the space station are shielded so the Daleks cant 'beam' in (they had a word for it, but i forget). The Doctor says he can make a a Delta wave using the station as it is a just a large transmitter. This Delta wave will fry the brains of everything in its path (including the planet Earth - but he says that its ok because the humans have other colonies, while this will kill all the Daleks once and for all.)

(Posting now, so i can see if anyone else has replied and save me typing the rest.)

[Yahwe]

then billie piper somehow joins my race and kills the daleks.

the end.

[Deffeh]

the only good thing about the entire series was that it reminded me to download "Captain Jack" by Billy Joel, and that British people shouldnt try and be american.

[Apothos]

While the Doctor is working on making this Delta wave, Captain Jack goes to the bottom floor (where about 100 people who werent evacuated are) to try and recruit some people to help fight the Daleks, as they will be able to get into the station from floor 494 where he says they will work their way upwards to get to the Doctor. Some time in this it is explained that the Daleks knew at the same time as the Doctor that he could make a Delta wave with the station, so they'll be going there to stop him. The guy who won "The Weakest Link" in the previous episode persuades most people there that the Daleks were wiped out, so only a few join Jack's little army.

The Doctor and Rose finish the modifications for the Delta wave, but it seems it is going to take too long for it to charge up as the Daleks are invading the planet. They were having a chat about the timeline and why he cant just go back in time and warn Earth so they'll be more ready for the Daleks, which seems to inspire him that he can use the Tardis to speed it up. Taking Rose inside, he tells her to keep a hold of some control or other, while he goes and checks the console outside the Tardis. This was, however, a trick to get Rose into the Tardis and send her home and away from seemingly inevitable death. She realises too late, and tries to get out, but cant.

At this point, a starwars-esque Holographic recording of the Doctor appears, explaining that the best thing for her to do is to live her life and forget about the Tardis, which will just be a box on a corner ignored by everyone until it is eventually lost under the continued development of human civilisation. It eventually lands back in Rose's time, and she goes outside and cries a bit. Mickey, aparently heard the Tardis engines and came running.

*gasps for air*

[Apothos]

So, yeah...

The Daleks start invading the station, and Jacks first defensive position is overrun, because the stations defenses didnt work, and the bullets from their guns were being mostly stopped by the Dalek's energy shield things (explained in the Dalek episode from earlier in the series).

The Doctor has a natter with the Emperor, who says he has nothing to do with this "Bad Wolf" stuff.

Rose cant get the Tardis working, so she goes off and has chips with her Mum and Mickey. Where she has a sulk, because she shouldnt be just sitting there while the Doctor fights to save the human race. So she runs out of the cafe. Mickey follows her, and they talk a bit, before she realises the words "Bad Wolf" all over the place. She proclaims it has nothing to do with a warning, but the opposite, and off they trot back to the Tardis.

The Daleks kill the people who didnt help Jack (on the bottom floor of the station) just for a laugh. Meanwhile, some other Daleks reach the next floor up towards the Doctor, and are confronted by the Anne-Droid, where it kills three Daleks - before being destroyed.

Rose says that Bad Wolf is a really something that has been used through time and space to tell her something, which i seem to have forgotten. Anyway, because of it, she realises she can get the Tardis to make a return journey because its telepathic (as seen in a previous episode) - all she needs to do is get a panel open and look into the vortex of time. They try to force the panel open using a Mini and a chain, but it just wont give.

Roses mother tells her it is time to give up, and they have a discussion about Roses dad (who is long dead since she was a baby), who she says wouldn't have given up, and there is mention to a previous episode where Rose met her Dad. Roses Mum runs off, seemingly in a huff.

The Daleks continue their way to the top floor, getting to a barracade with the last of Jacks army behind it. Aiming for the eye-piece's they manage to blind a Dalek before getting killed, one at a time. Leaving just Jack between them and the Doctor.

Roses Mum reappears with a Recovery truck and says Rose was right about her Dad. So they use this to get the panel open. Rose looks into the light inside the panel and the Tardis disappears.

Jack uses all his ammo on the Daleks, then gets killed.

The Delta wave is fully charged, as the Doctor is surrounded by the Daleks. During a chat with the Emperor Dalek, the Doctor realises he cant push the plunger to activate the Delta wave and kill so many people. They're just about to kill him when the Tardis reappears.

Rose comes out of the Tardis with glowey eyes. She is now, aparently, the time vortex, and can control atoms in time and stuff. She proceeds to make the Daleks disappear, and brings Jack back to life, and has a chat with the Doctor, who says it will kill her if it stays in her. So he gives her a kiss and all the vortex stuff leaves her into him.

Jack gets up and goes into the room where the Tardis was just in time to see it vanish.

Rose wakes up in the Tardis not knowing what happened. The Doctor explains he's about to die, but he can cheat death but he wont be the same. He changes into David Tennant amidst some special glowey effects.

The end.

(Thats the best i'm going to do. Feel free to pick it apart, and point out errors, or rewrite it, or whatever.)

Download it or catch the repeat or something, i missed heaps out, thats just the general jist.

[roadrunner_0]

thats a pretty good summing up really

[Kurashima]

I hadnt watched any of it, but watched the last episode and was reasonably impressed.

Possibly its the Dalek thing, as I tend to find all other Dr Who villains a tad boring, with the exception of "The Master", who we REALLY need to see in another series, since a rogue Galifrean timelord would make things a bit more interesting.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

that he tirelessly works to fight biggotry and that i have no doubt that his way of fighting it will actually succeed

i'm not going to nit pick with you. it detracts from the point... the point i had.... before you did your usual nit picking bollocks.

the phrase 'wood for the trees' means nothing to you does it?

When making a television programme, the primary objective really should be to make the television programme good. I don't really care if you see it as a great advancement for "Gay Rights", and I feel that it's more a symptom than a cause of the rise of something in that regard anyway.

Quite a lot of the things he's written have made little sense in the Greater Internal Continuity of Doctor Who, and little sense in what the series was trying to address from a science fiction entertainment point of view, with the addition that quite a lot of it shows a rather depressing lack of actual thought. The "room with giant swirling blades" from the second episode springs to mind as something which is more at home in late nineties computer games than anything that needs internal continuity. And the "tardis did it" explanation we've had - what really is the point of introducing that? It's a crappy deus ex when the entire premise of the show is basically that the main character can think of a deus ex solution to anything.

The Time War for example - there really is no way for this to work, as both in the current series ("Father's Day") and in the old work ("Genesis of the Daleks") there has been a direct statement of how this time travel malarky "works". "Father's Day", it must be said, is a work of absymal tripe and flat out contradicts basically everything that made sense in the old Doctor Who, but introducing two new variants on "How Time Travel Works" (The Time War, "Father's Day") in the same series really isn't the way forward. It's forgiveable when the two distinctions are seperated by a period of several years, so that there's no actual staff continuity on the project, but even then Doctor Who hasn't really touched upon this - perhaps the writers thought it would be too confusing for light entertainment. Perhaps they thought it would be too difficult to do well, perhaps they just didn't think of it. Authorial intent is totally irrelevent, after all, and therefore we judge the work, both the legacy episodes and the new series, by what they put on screen.

What they put on screen is not pleasing to me.

[KaneED]

One thing I don't get is the Daleks.

Why do they want to take control of the universe?

Why do they have funny voices?

If they're made out of humans, how are they actually a race?

Why did they kill the Timelords?

Now onto Dr Who.

Who is Dr Who?

What are the TImelords? Are they Dr Who's equivalent to Q in Star Trek?

Is Dr Who a god?


These seem to be glossed over in the assumption that everyone will be so highly entertained that they forget to ask these questions, and it worries me because it seems that the Daleks are just "evil" without any reason for it.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by KaneED

One thing I don't get is the Daleks.

Why do they want to take control of the universe?

Originally, they were just "generic alien menace", but post-Genesis, they've turned more into a sort of Space Reich - the Daleks believe all the other races in the universe to be "unpure".

Originally Posted by KaneED

Why do they have funny voices?

Because Terry Nation thought that would make them more alien. Which it does.

In series context, it's pretty much the same explanation. They're green blobs inside battletanks, the voices are entirely artificial, and therefore they're made to have the most emotional impact on the enemy.

Originally Posted by KaneED

If they're made out of humans, how are they actually a race?

Daleks proper are mutated Kaleds, who were a race at war with guys called Thals. However, in the late 70's (programme time) they kicked out Davros, their creator, and went their own way. Davros sees the daleks as more of a mean to an end, and therefore isn't above using remains of other creatures to power his war machine (See the Colin Baker story "Revelation of the Daleks").

Originally Posted by KaneED

Why did they kill the Timelords?

A better question is how. There are plenty of motives for the daleks to attack the time lords - the fact that they're another species is probably enough, but add to that that the time lords did send the Doctor to attempt to stop the Daleks being created in Genesis and you've got a decent enough reason.

How you destroy a race of beings who are basically gods is another question entirely, and would have to come with the disruption of the TL's ability to travel through time (and their other stuff, which is basically formed around the same power source - The Eye of Harmony, which was a black hole created by a time lord called Omega in his time travel experiments), such as when the Sontarons attacked the time lords. However, that wouldn't really make it into a time war, and just raises further problems because the time lords themselves are, as a time travelling culture, basically not rooted in any individual point in time.

Originally Posted by KaneED

Now onto Dr Who.

Who is Dr Who?

He's a renegade time lord. He stole a TARDIS and buggered off to have adventures. In the McCoy era, they tried to add a bit more to this, and gave him all sorts of background with the Omega time travel experiments, and a lot more generic gubbins (see: Remembrance of the Daleks and the Ace Trilogy). He's been President of the Time Lords, and has been on trial by them several times for crimes against the Doctor Who equivilent of Star Trek's Prime Directive - basically muddling around with time travel and ballsing stuff up.

Originally Posted by KaneED

What are the TImelords? Are they Dr Who's equivalent to Q in Star Trek?

The time lords are the most technologically advanced society in the universe. The Doctor is one, and is basically getting short changed with the whole experience. Normally, Time Lords can decide how and when they regenerate, and can actually control their TARDISes. They've gone through several stages, and basically through the continuity of the series they're in a sort of paternalistic phase, although they have been much more aggressive in the "past", with legacy stuff like the games of Rassilon (see: "The Five Doctors").

Originally Posted by KaneED

Is Dr Who a god?

In story telling senses, yes. He's a deus ex machina to get the writers out of whatever whole they've found themselves in, because he's a really clever chap.

Pre-Ecclestone, hell no in an actual story based sense.

Now, christ knows.

Originally Posted by KaneED

These seem to be glossed over in the assumption that everyone will be so highly entertained that they forget to ask these questions, and it worries me because it seems that the Daleks are just "evil" without any reason for it.

Things like the daleks are ingrained in the popular culture. To provide basic entertainment you don't have to give the full backstory, because there is an enormous amount of television programming that has been devoted to that already.

[KaneED]

So, if I were to watch all the previous Dr Who series' I would understandwhy the Daleks are evil and why the Doctor is good?


(btw thanks <3)

[djbass]

I think MrL_JaKiri covered it pretty well, not really anything to add here. You know it never occurred to me till just now that Daleks is a play on the word Kaleds, heh.

To further clarify the Dalek thing though, the Kaleds where originally a more human-like race. In their war with the Thals they suffered a nuclear fallout that resulted in mutations. Being a highly advanced race that they were they devised the machines that they get around in which forms the basic shell so well associated with the Daleks. The first encounter between the Daleks and Timelords was innitiated by The Doctor. This was also the beginning of their hostilities as the encounter did not go very well. It is in short just one big grudge match that's festered over a long period into an all-out war.

If you were wondering about the shape of the TARDIS. It is normally supposed to disguise itself with whatever surrounds are approraite for the time period. Somehow it's mechanism got stuck and it remained an old police phone box.

[djbass]

Originally Posted by KaneED

So, if I were to watch all the previous Dr Who series' I would understandwhy the Daleks are evil and why the Doctor is good?


(btw thanks <3)

That would be a truly monumental effort btw, something akin to watching Star Trek from the very first pilot all the way through to current (with a slightly lower production budget)

[Tomkat]

Originally Posted by Apothos

Rose comes out of the Tardis with glowey eyes. She is now, aparently, the time vortex, and can control atoms in time and stuff. She proceeds to make the Daleks disappear, and brings Jack back to life, and has a chat with the Doctor, who says it will kill her if it stays in her. So he gives her a kiss and all the vortex stuff leaves her into him.

What the ****

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Tomkat

What the ****

didn't make much sense on screen either.


edit: However it should be said that I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, the series, Davies' writing, and the performances of Ecclestone and indeed Billie Piper.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by KaneED

So, if I were to watch all the previous Dr Who series' I would understandwhy the Daleks are evil and why the Doctor is good?

The Doctor is good because he's a nice sort of chap. All you have to watch to understand the Daleks is "Genesis of the Daleks", which is a Tom Baker 6 parter.

I think MrL_JaKiri covered it pretty well, not really anything to add here. You know it never occurred to me till just now that Daleks is a play on the word Kaleds, heh.

The opposite is more techincally true.

To further clarify the Dalek thing though, the Kaleds where originally a more human-like race. In their war with the Thals they suffered a nuclear fallout that resulted in mutations. Being a highly advanced race that they were they devised the machines that they get around in which forms the basic shell so well associated with the Daleks.

Not quite. Davros, the Kaled chief scientist, decided that Mutation == Evolution, and decided to artificially kick the process along to create the Kaled's "ultimate form", the green goo we know and love. He saw the daleks as the perfect beings - the ultimate evolution of kaleds encased in the most sophisticated combat vehicle ever constructed.

The first encounter between the Daleks and Timelords was innitiated by The Doctor. This was also the beginning of their hostilities as the encounter did not go very well. It is in short just one big grudge match that's festered over a long period into an all-out war.

It depends what you mean by that. The only real (canon) interactions between the Daleks and The Time Lords (excluding the doctor) occur only in passing - the Doctor is plonked down in Genesis at the TL's behest, Remembrance has Davros's Imperial Daleks fighting "Renegade" Daleks for Time Lord technology. There's also a Dalek dropped into the Games of Rassilon in "The Five Doctors".

The Time Lords basically do nothing throughout Dr Who. Nothing particularly active, anyway. Their respsonse during the first Omega crisis? Let the Doctor deal with it. The Daleks causing death and destruction? Let the Doctor deal with it.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by djbass

That would be a truly monumental effort btw, something akin to watching Star Trek from the very first pilot all the way through to current (with a slightly lower production budget)

Most of it's pretty rubbish, too. Although its multiepisodic nature leads to quite a few curate's eggs - the first episode of Earthshock is great, the rest... less so.

[djbass]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Not quite. Davros, the Kaled chief scientist, decided that Mutation == Evolution, and decided to artificially kick the process along to create the Kaled's "ultimate form", the green goo we know and love. He saw the daleks as the perfect beings - the ultimate evolution of kaleds encased in the most sophisticated combat vehicle ever constructed.

I'll take your word on that as I've not seen many of the episodes in a long long time.

I'm only going from the old black & white episodes from season 1 where Hartnell was the doctor. (recently started re-airing on ABC as a catch-up before they started airing the 2005 series here).

In The Mutants, I'm pretty sure they said the mutation was a result of the fallout from their war.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by djbass

I'll take your word on that as I've not seen many of the episodes in a long long time.

I'm only going from the old black & white episodes from season 1 where Hartnell was the doctor. (recently started re-airing on ABC as a catch-up before they started airing the 2005 series here).

In The Mutants, I'm pretty sure they said the mutation was a result of the fallout from their war.

The Mutants (which has been retroactively renamed "The Daleks" in most official releases, partially because there's another story called "The Mutants") is a good example of Doctor Who's ****ed up continuity.

"Genesis of the Daleks", as it actually takes place at the time, is generally regarded to be the canon on this subject.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

When making a television programme, the primary objective really should be to make the television programme good.

this bit here.

this was when you put your foot in your mouth and then aimed the gun.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

this bit here.

this was when you put your foot in your mouth and then aimed the gun.

GD continues its fine tradition of arguing with truisms.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

GD continues its fine tradition of arguing with truisms.

You're missing the point.

Yahwe isn't saying that 'being a bastion of gay rights' = good television, he is saying that 'being a bastion of gay rights' = good for gay rights. He's saying that it's good that it's good for gay rights.

Your interpretation is that by this he means that it's good television.

This interpretation is not correct.

[Deepflow]

well i liked it anyway.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Phang

You're missing the point.

Yahwe isn't saying that 'being a bastion of gay rights' = good television, he is saying that 'being a bastion of gay rights' = good for gay rights. He's saying that it's good that it's good for gay rights.

Originally Posted by Yahwe

you don't have to like the man (he is fat after all). but you can't denegrate his work.

Now, I see the primary work of a television writer as the writing of television.

This is an interpretation which is reinforced by the fact that the above quote is directly following

Originally Posted by me

I really wish he didn't, they're almost entirely dreadful, and, even when they are good, show extremely poor construction.

Which talks entirely about the quality of his output, and not his "message".

Of course, whether or not the discussion involved the quality of RTD's writings is utterly irrelevent, because I can criticise RTD for whatever aspects of his writings that I decide. Were Doctor Who a show entirely focused on homosexuality, as described previously, then you might have some sort of argument. However, this would require such an indescribably blinkered view on reality that I find it hard to accept that people who actually have the capability to actually understand the relationship between this plastic thing with symbols on it and what appears on that flat glassy thing even consider it for a moment.

Furthermore, I find the irony of Yahwe criticising me for not "seeing the wood for the trees" not quite delicious enough to distract from the annoyance of me being insulted for commenting on the show entire when he's focusing disproportionately on a single, very small, section of it.

Too beset by petty things to appreciate the greatness or grandeur; too wrapped up in details to gain a view of the whole.

In any case, any such storytelling vehicle should have more than one primary focus. A comedy should be watchable if you don't particularly like the humour, a horror film should be enjoyable even if you're not scared.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Now, I see the primary work of a television writer as the writing of television.

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Furthermore, I find the irony of Yahwe criticising me for not "seeing the wood for the trees" not quite delicious enough to distract from the annoyance of me being insulted for commenting on the show entire when he's focusing disproportionately on a single, very small, section of it.

the point is that regardless of the quality of the show, it can still be lauded for playing some kind of part in the struggle for gay rights.

And as someone who is well-educated and has a circle of well-adjusted gay friends with few bad experiences, you're in the perfect position not to understand that there's still a problem, and therefore quite able to miss the otherwise obvious point Yahwe was making re: "wood for the trees" which is that societal equality is more important than television drama.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Phang

the point is that regardless of the quality of the show, it can still be lauded for playing some kind of part in the struggle for gay rights.

And as someone who is well-educated and has a circle of well-adjusted gay friends with few bad experiences, you're in the perfect position not to understand that there's still a problem, and therefore quite able to miss the otherwise obvious point Yahwe was making re: "wood for the trees" which is that societal equality is more important than television drama.

I know perfectly well there's still a problem, but I don't see the slightest bit of evidence that RTD's fixation on homosexuality will in any way change anything - something I've pointed out already.

You two are missing the point entirely, you shouldn't trying to persuade me that the benefit to Gay Rights is more important than the rest of the show, you should be trying to argue that there's a benefit to Gay Rights in the first place.

[Yahwe]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

You two are missing the point entirely, you shouldn't trying to persuade me that the benefit to Gay Rights is more important than the rest of the show, you should be trying to argue that there's a benefit to Gay Rights in the first place.

what's the point?

you'd only argue with our grammar or go off on an unconected rant where you write great swathes of gibberish text.

i'm not 100% sure that you're not autistic you know

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Yahwe

what's the point?

you'd only argue with our grammar or go off on an unconected rant where you write great swathes of gibberish text.

All my writings make perfect sense. PERFECT.

Originally Posted by Yahwe

i'm not 100% sure that you're not autistic you know

I am autistic.

[the_dastardley_chihuahua]

it was a pretty good series, however the ending was pretty shit. the bad wolf thing could have been something great, but instead it ends up just being rose. i dont like the way everything was saved at the end by god-like powers, what a cop out.

back to the bad wolf, i was hoping it might have something to do with that adam guy (the one from corrie, who was in the first episode where the dalek appeared and subsequently travelled in the tardis into the future) since he was given that thing in the head on the space station, he absorbed 200,000 years of human history/ideas and then was plonked back down in 2005. with his knowledge of future events/technologies and his ability to get a hold of alien technologies on earth, i was epxecting him to be in some way involved in the whole 'bad wolf' thing.