Planetarion Forums

Structural Integrity · 20 Dec 2002, 12:12

At the moment I have an XP1700+ with a VIA K7T 266 Mobo, 512 meg RAM, a GeForce2 GFX card and a relatively low-end Audigy card (not the most expensive one from the audigy line).
It's almost a year old now...

I was wondering if it's even worth upgrading the thing. I'm not much of a hardcore gamer, but if I see what the current specs are for computergames my pants spontaneously fall down. Will I still be able to enjoy a game at 1024*768 res with current special effects in a year or so?

What I was wondering if there is any future in the Processor/Mobo combo. With the current XP2xxx's and 333Mhz FSB's I'm beginning to doubt that. And with the coming Hammer/Athlon64 platforms I have the feeling it will be completely whipped, although I'm also a bit awkward to invest in a whole new system.... it's old even before it arrives after you ordered it.

Anyone any thoughts about this?

Gayle29uk · 20 Dec 2002, 12:19

The technology race is a mugs game. I tend to upgrade processor/mobo every few years but apart from that I just deal with memory/HDD issues as they arise. I don't play games as a rule (apart from online ones

) so the current gaming specs generally don't affect me. Obviously my desire to play Eve might change that but that's something for next year

.

Basically, if you can buy it it's old tech and you need deep DEEP pockets to keep up

Having said that, apart from your GFX card you should still be ok unless they make a massive breakthrough sometime this year.

xtothez · 20 Dec 2002, 14:15

I'm running an XP1700 and have no intention of replacing it for quite a while yet. If you want to play decent games, investing in a decent GF Ti or ATi card will have a much larger impact than any processor upgrade, I cant see me updating my GFX for even longer than my CPU (GF4 Ti4400). It runs Doom3 perfectly, even in the buggy unoptimized pre-beta copy I have. My GF2 was struggling on some newer demos and releases before I replaced it, the GF4 handles anything thrown at it (with my new monitor I'm running alot of things in 1600x1200 :), this leaves plenty of rooms for next years' releases in 1024x768.
Is your current memory DDR? This isn't really important unless you want to play alot of new games, but its a nice thing if you have the cash.

If I were you, I'd look to invest in a ~£100 GFX card after Christmas in a sale or something, then not worry about anything else for at least 12 months.

meglamaniac · 20 Dec 2002, 14:26

Never mind a year, you'll be having problems in 3 months (lo Doom III).

So far as expansion cards go, I tend to stay 1.5 steps behind current models. For example, I will get a GeForce4 soon (I currently have a GeForce3). I'm waiting until the GeForceFX is released, and then waiting another couple of months for GeForce4 prices to fall sufficiently.
I may also invest in a low end Audigy to replace my SBLive shortly.

By doing things that way, I've allways been able to play all current games while not spending the entire defense budget for the US. Maybe not at maximum resolution (My GeForce3 Ti200 struggles a bit with Rallisport Challenge) but I can play them all smoothly if I lower the res/detail/effects.
So far as I'm concerned, that'll do for me.

As for processor - I upgrade it when it becomes apparent that it isn't coping with what's expected of it. By the time that happens with my AXP2000+ I imagine an AXP2600+ won't be much over £50.

Of course, there's always a market for old kit. When I got my GeForce3 I got £40 for my GeForce2 off some guy in 6th form.
There's always someone to sell to if you look hard enough.

Luckeh!!!! · 20 Dec 2002, 16:10

the only thing you really want to upgrade, like everyone else has said, is the GFX card, get at least a GF4Ti or equivalent and you'll be fine.

I've only just recently upgraded to an AXP2000+/GF4Ti/DDR from a 2yo machine and it pretty much kicks arse.

PS - This falling snow is getting on my nerves :/

21 Dec 2002, 01:16

I made this topic not too long ago : /

Miserableman · 22 Dec 2002, 00:41

Like someone else said, only the graphics card will need updating in the next couple of years.

Upgrades suck. This XP1800 is 0% faster than my old 1Ghz Thunderbird, and crashes if you attempt to play graphics and sound together. An unreliable PC makes you really appreciate what you had. You may also, like me, feel a bit of an eejit when you boot it up and find no discernable performance gains for your £500 or whatever.

The moral of the story is don't ever touch anything with a VIA sticker anywhere near it.

meglamaniac · 22 Dec 2002, 01:23

Rubbish.
Do you actually have any games that TEST the performance of your AXP1800?

Obviously, if you only want your PC for word processing then you're in the wrong game. However, your AXP1800 should be able to do performance tasks nearly twice as fast as the Tbird 1Ghz. For example, ripping CD's to MP3s should be much faster.
I used to have a Tbird 1Ghz - it could encode a 3 min track in about 45 seconds (not counting the time to rip the audio off the CD to wav first). MY AXP2000 can do the same task in about 22 seconds.

As for gaming - try running UT2003 with bots. The UT2003 bots are exceptionally bright - especially in team play. Trying to play team deathmatch against them is like trying to take on a swat team - they have a leader, they cover each other, they watch thier backs, and they choose the correct weapon for the situation. Obviously this uses a lot of CPU power - running a TDM game with 9 bots plus yourself can all but cripple a machine that can play network games fine.
I think you'd find that in such a situation your AXP1800 would outstrip your Tbird 1Ghz by miles.

If UT2003 can cripple systems, just wait for Doom III. I've played the leaked E3 Alpha, and while I know the code has a long way to go, it IS a system killer. Running it on an AXP1800 will be pushing it, to say the least.

Obviously you don't have anything that really tests the system - which begs a question; why did you upgrade in the first place?

Structural Integrity · 22 Dec 2002, 11:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Luckeh!!!!
the only thing you really want to upgrade, like everyone else has said, is the GFX card, get at least a GF4Ti or equivalent and you'll be fine.

I've only just recently upgraded to an AXP2000+/GF4Ti/DDR from a 2yo machine and it pretty much kicks arse.

Yes, the GFX card is definately the bottleneck of this system, but I don't feel like buying a GFX card now if the overall system doesn't have long to live. Although I could do a card transplantation if I buy a new system

BTW, did you buy a new motherboard with that XP2000+ ? Which kind of 2 year old motherboard supports an XP2000+ ?

Luckeh!!!! · 22 Dec 2002, 13:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Structural Integrity
Yes, the GFX card is definately the bottleneck of this system, but I don't feel like buying a GFX card now if the overall system doesn't have long to live. Although I could do a card transplantation if I buy a new system

BTW, did you buy a new motherboard with that XP2000+ ? Which kind of 2 year old motherboard supports an XP2000+ ?

I upgraded pretty much the main backbone of the system (RAM,MOBO,GFX,OS)
I got a GFX/Mobo package, the Twinforce2 (Nvidia nforce415D + Ti4200) It rocks, my old mobo was an ASUS VIA and I had all sorts of problems with the PCI bus etc....

I didn't want to take VIA again (I was eyeing up a KT333 but I found VIA still had certain issues) but the GFX/Mobo package was too good to pass and it was an nForce too.

Now that I've got WinXP, my whole system is complete and utterly stable and I have NO sound issues with ANY game that did have them with my old mobo (more due to the fact the new nForce drivers r0x0r anything ASUS can come up with)

FYI, I believe the KT133A is about 2years old and supports with AXP2000+ with a bios update albeit running with SDR ram though.

PS - I bash VIA because they were very unsupportive about my mobo problems and repeatedly tried shifting me to ASUS, I had a few probs with the nforce and I contacted nVidia, they told me to wait a few weeks for a driver update, I did, and now the mobo is running perfect.

MT · 23 Dec 2002, 18:33

I was thinking of upgrading to an nforce 2, a 333MHz fsb athlon etc etc, but then I realised that, frankly, it didnt really matter. The only upgrade I'm currently considering is another HD (low priority), another 512 MB RAM (even lower), a Radeon 9500 Pro (quite intrigued by this - decent power at a decent price - wait till nvidia fx comes out and ati slash that price even further), a DVD writer (although I may just wait till the old man gets one and use his).

In fact, the only upgrade I really want atm is to replace my 15" screens with TFT's or large CRTs. And even that isnt a burning urge

meglamaniac · 23 Dec 2002, 18:51

What proc do you have at the moment MT?

The only thing I'm considering upgrading in the near(ish) future is graphics. That won't be till the GeForceFX is out. That isn't till Febuary at least. I'll probably have to wait another month after that for GeForce4 / Ati 9500 prices to come within my range - which puts me somewhere near March/April 2003.

Hopefully an AXP2000 + a card of that sort of power will be able to handle most of the games comming out this year (yes, even Doom III), as that'll be my upgrade budget for the year pretty much spent.

Bring back student grants fs!

JammyJim · 23 Dec 2002, 19:02

after basically building an entirely new pc i have some 'ace' advice to give.

IF you want to upgrade and begin spending money the only thing you should even consider spending top notch cash for is the motherboard.

i found the most expensive feature filled mobo i could get my grubby little hands on but have put stuff in it that isnt actually using half of its capacity. (e.g. pc2700 ram instead of pc3200. athlon xp2100+ instead of athlon2800 etc etc)

as long as you have a system which CAN be upgraded in the future everything should be fine. atm the only main concern with gaming is the gfx card. even low end processors can cope with some of the latest games.

After i plugged in a Geforce4 into my old P3 500 it ran most things smooth and fine as long as i made sure it wasnt running 160000x400000 resolution and things wernt pumped upto 'max detail'

after ive upgraded it runs everything ive thrown at it absolutly fine.

as megla said, i plan to upgrade the geforce when the new FX chip comes out so the TI ones fall in price rapidly.

then possibly move up the XP ladder and slowly use more and more of the mobo capabilities when the xp prices fall.

MT · 23 Dec 2002, 19:14

Code:

18:14) <MT> os[Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 1 (5.1 - 2600)] uptime[2h 5m 19s] Uptime Stattage[ http://www.tuxtime.dk/index.php?page=computer&id=890 ]
(18:14) <MT> cpu[1-AMD Thunderbird, 1396MHz, 256KB (0% Load)] mem[Usage: 262/512MB (51.17%)] mbm5info[]
(18:14) <MT> mp3[Deep Purple - Perfect Stranger] Don't like that? Change it here[ http://edstreet.gotadsl.co.uk:8080/a ]
(18:14) <MT> Network Interfaces[#1 (NETGEAR FA310TX Fast Ethernet Adapter (NGRPCI) (10Mb/s) 10.19MB In, 7.28MB Out)]
(18:14) <MT> gfx 1[ATI Radeon 7500 64MB DDR (Jetway)] ][ gfx 2[Matrox Millenium II 8MB]
(18:14) <MT> screen 1[1600x1200 32bit 60Hz] ][ screen 2[1024x768 32bit 85 Hz][ screen 3[1024x768 32bit 85 Hz]

SDR SDRAM tho.

Yes, I know none of those links work, ta.

meglamaniac · 23 Dec 2002, 19:38

I'd forgotten about you and your 3 screens fs.
How can you bear one at 60hz? Some people don't mind, but I can see the flicker very clearly and it gets right on my nerves (and ends up making my eyes go funy after a few hours...)

MT · 24 Dec 2002, 02:58

its not too bad tbh, i get more concerned about sharpness of the image.

In actual fact, that thing is lieing, one of the 15"'ers is at 60 Hz too. I found that running it off the DVI port of my radeon, using a dvi2vga adaptor ofc, altho it would happily do 85Hz it would become incredibley fuzzy, whilst at 60 Hz its very sharp*. tbh I really dont notice any flicker, and I spend more than enough time looking at these screens :/

* This is because the vast majority of TFT screens run only at 60Hz, so to save costs, Sapphire (who didnt bundle a dvi2vga adaptor with this card, had to buy it for £10 :/) use a ramdac that is designed to be used at only 60Hz, hence the degradation of sharpness running at 85Hz

Luckeh!!!! · 24 Dec 2002, 13:10

I get bad headaches using 60Hz :|

BesigedB · 24 Dec 2002, 14:04

60Hz = teh evil.

100Hz = good

Structural Integrity · 24 Dec 2002, 15:15

Quote:

Originally posted by BesigedB
60Hz = teh evil.
100Hz = good

yes, but you find me a monitor that can be cranked up to 100hz first.
ATM I'm running this on 75 HZ, which is the maximum Windows allows me to run it on.