the vampire has slain* the gibbering labrador

[Nusselt]

*not literally

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4010293.stm

hes meant to be the buffoon, eventually it was all going to come tumbling down but i hope this isn't an angus deacon like chop, hes the best thing about the tories, not saying much i know, but he is

[Kurashima]

Poor Boris

[Marilyn Manson]

Now all that has to happen to make the Tories electable is for the rest of the shadow front bench to go as well.

[Nusselt]

I was going to add a post about whether lying about your private life should really be a sackable offence but i suppose if the tories model themselves on middle england respectability you can't expect them to permit affairs. It still does seem a tad harsh though, theres probably an element of jealousy involved.

[Marilyn Manson]

I think it's probably a case of Howard (Convieniently.) pushing him now rather than later, when it all comes out in the press. I imagine he wants absolutely nothing to implicitly remind the electorate of what his chums were all up to in the last Tory government.

I mean, he is a bit of a idiot. I imagine Howard wants to make a the party appear as serious as possible atm. Also, you don't want someone that gaffe-prone with you in the run-up to a general election. Mind you, he has got Letwin as shadow chancellor, so who knows.

I suppose it basically boils down to Johnson's general unlikeliness for office and Howard using all the recent events as as good an excuse as any to bin the sod.

[Kurashima]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

. Mind you, he has got Letwin as shadow chancellor, so who knows.

I thought you were of the opinion that the sun shines out of Letwins arse, and you wouldnt mind paying it a visit.

[Marilyn Manson]

The short answer is no.

[Kurashima]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

The short answer is no.

No the Sun doesnt shine out of Letwin's arse , or that you dont want to pay Letwin's arse a visit?

[Marilyn Manson]

Both.

[Marilyn Manson]

Posting to alert Ste to this thread's existence.

[Phang]

MM, I've never been entirely sure where your view that Bojo is unelectable comes from to be honest. Nobody outside Liverpool was offended by the Spectator article, and the only people in Liverpool who did care either wouldn't vote or wouldn't vote Tory, and Liverpool wouldn't go to the Tories in a million years ANYWAY. Aside from the Spectator article, he's proven to be a fairly popular figure with indisputable charisma and, strangely for someone in the Tories, views that could be associated with a century after the eighteenth. I'd argue, in fact, that Boris Johnson is the only electable figure in the Tory party aside from Portillo, who seems to have given up on frontbench politics.

[Marilyn Manson]

I didn't say he was unelectable. I said he was a joke.

He's not charismatic in the way that you suppose; he's charismatic in a very limited, non-serious sense, unlike Portillo, say. Alan Clarke is a good example of this kind of thing, although obviously he was a very different fellow to Johnson.

I don't know anyone who views him as a really serious politician, tbh. His entire fame is through his personality, and people are only interested in him as a kind of stage act. He's never going to be a real electoral asset, and is only going to distract people from the main Tory agenda. I don't see any real overiding reason why Howard had to keep him.

To be frank, when you're trying to position yourself as a serious party of opposition, you really don't need these sorts of people. They're kind of interesting to have in government, and can be largely tolerated then, but they're a bit of a liability otherwise.

[meglamaniac]

Personally I was behind Boris on the Liverpool statement.
Ignoring the tripe about the Hillsborough disaster which can be put down to his essential Borris-ness, he had a point. Why was Liverpool so cut up about a man who had spent a large part of his life outside of the country, nevermind near the city, and was planning to retire and live in his wife's country?
In no way do I intend to say his death wasn't a tradgedy, as are those of all the other hostages taken in Iraq over the years, but all this "we've lost a close son of liverpool" stuff was total, crass, commercialised, sentimental bandwaggon jumping bollocks that was mainly just tabloid 'journalism' in any case.

Boris just made a characteristically bad attempt at getting his point accross.

I think sacking him was a mistake.
He's the only person I can immediately name as being a member of the conservatives. Sorry MM, but the rest of them are just faceless toffs with no memorable characteristics whatsoever, and I honest to god would struggle to name Howard as the leader on occasion. Boris was the only human face you had, and most importantly the only link you had to the majority of the younger generation. Ok it might be a link for all the wrong reasons, but thats arguably better than nothing, which is what you've got now.
Let the good old Tory judgement roll, eh.
Anyway, now he has more free time I suggest the beeb look into hiring him as permanent presenter of Have I Got News For You.
That would make my year.

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

He's never going to be a real electoral asset, and is onyl going to distract people from the main Tory agenda.

frankly, I think you understate the value of someone with gimmick quality in a world where people other than the Junkers have the vote. Arnold Schwarzenegger as an example. The difference being, of course, Bojo is competent and broadly recognised as such.

The charisma issue I think we'll have to agree to disagree on. I don't think the blundering oaf facet of his personality is mutually exclusive with your Portillo-style view on charisma. Alan Clark always seemed like someone you liked to watch but would hate to meet, Portillo the complete opposite. Bojo, on the other hand, seems to fit both groups pretty well.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Phang

Arnold Schwarzenegger as an example.

Arnie is a bit of a 'freak' occurance, even within the confines of American politics.

In any case, your comparison here is faulty. For Johnson to have had any real national impact, he would have to have had to be at the least in a prime spot in the shadow cabinet. Which was never going to happen in a month of blue moon Sundays. Also, Arnie was a celebrity who successfully positioned himself as a politician; Johnson is a politician who has successfully positioned himself as a celebrity, largely at the expense of his political standing.

As he was, he might have attracted the votes of a few thousand mindless, pissed-up students to the Tories.

Originally Posted by Phang

The difference being, of course, Bojo is competent and broadly recognised as such.

Err, he is? By who?

Originally Posted by Phang

I don't think the blundering oaf facet of his personality is mutually exclusive with your Portillo-style view on charisma.

I think it is. Certainly, Johnson has yet to demonstrate that it isn't.

[meglamaniac]

I still maintain Howard has just sacked the Tory's best way of getting the popular vote.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by meglamaniac

I still maintain Howard has just sacked the Tory's best way of getting the popular vote.

Why?

Are you seriously suggesting that anyone would have voted Tory, other than the aforementioned students, simply on the basis that Boris Johnson was their shadow arts minister?

[Phang]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Why?

Are you seriously suggesting that anyone would have voted Tory, other than the aforementioned students, simply on the basis that Boris Johnson was their shadow arts minister?

portillo with johnson in the senior cabinet would attract a lot of votes.

the tories are at their lowest ebb right now. They've been going with thatcherites since 2001, and what happens? labour are at their most vunerable, and the tories LOSE ground. to the lib dems and to bloody UKIP. they need moderates desperately, and competent ones like portillo and bojo would set them in good stead for the popular vote.

[meglamaniac]

He has personality, something lacking in any other Tory front bencher (or the rest of them more than likely).
Tony may be the embodyment of pure evil and satan's representative on earth, and Mandy his hell's angel, but at least they have some defining traits.
The only defining trait about Howard is that he hasn't got any, which is hardly an advert for the party.

It's a shame the only other Tory with a public image happens to be a convicted perjurer really.

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Phang

portillo with johnson in the senior cabinet would attract a lot of votes.

I don't doubt that moderates would bring in the votes, but I don't see why we need to rate Johnson as the best man for this, when equally popular and non-joke alternatives like Ken Clark and Portillo have been on offer.

Anyway, it's not going to happen anytime soon, so we need not worry over it.

Originally Posted by Phang

the tories are at their lowest ebb right now. They've been going with thatcherites since 2001,

No, they've been going with the Thatcherites since Thatcher entered government, and have never stopped. This is largely the main problem for the Tory party - it has become a ridigly ideological party in many senses, precisely at a time when Labour has been ditching most of it's ideology to become pragmatic and more calculating with regards to electoral politics.

This is, of course, why eminently sensible and electable men like Ken Clarke and Portillo get flushed, and the party elects nonenities like Hague and IDS.

[Phang]

i omitted Ken Clark because only about 4% of the population know who he is, and whenever he appears on TV it's a ranged shot where he looks like Freddy Krueger.

I'd disagree about the strength of Tory ideology. It's just as calculated if not moreso than Labour or even the bloody Lib Dems, but calculated to maintain the heartland rather than something dangerous like 'attract new voters'.

I wouldn't say Labour are losing their ideology so much either. I'd just say that they're hitting the middle classes disproportionately to the rich - their pragmatism, as you put it, is losing them ground to the tories and the lib dems in the middle classes; they're in power now because the Berlin Wall fell and the left wing didn't seem like a detestable atrocity any more, so it's inherent appeal to the British 'spirit of co-operation', which i can just about say with a straight face, shoone through again. the only things labour have done that go against principles are PFI hospitals (which ultimately were needed) and arguably Iraq (which cost them horrednously and certainly wasn't a vote-grabber).

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Phang

i omitted Ken Clark because only about 4% of the population know who he is,

I doubt that very highly. Ken Clarke is, I'd wager, one of the most well-known Tory politicians at the moment. Certainly more renowned than most of the current front bench.

Anyway, whatever his status now, everyone certainly knew who Ken Clarke was in 1997 - and a lot of them found him to be likeable, too. Which is more than could ever be said for Hague.

Originally Posted by Phang

but calculated to maintain the heartland rather than something dangerous like 'attract new voters'.

It's not calculated to do that; it doesn't have to be. They want to attract votes - any party wants to attract votes - it's simply about making the neccesary mental conclusions as to how this can be brought about. As it stands, the Tories can't do that. Thatcherism still reigns as effectively as Socialism once did in the Labour Party.

Originally Posted by Phang

I wouldn't say Labour are losing their ideology so much either.

I'm speaking over the last twenty years or so here, rather than the last few months.

Originally Posted by Phang

they're in power now because the Berlin Wall fell and the left wing didn't seem like a detestable atrocity any more,

That's a bit ridiculously simplistic, as well as being horribly wrong.

Originally Posted by Phang

the only things labour have done that go against principles are PFI hospitals (which ultimately were needed) and arguably Iraq (which cost them horrednously and certainly wasn't a vote-grabber).

Again on the twenty year thing.

[Kurashima]

BJB (C)Kurashima 2004

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Kurashima

BJB (C)Kurashima 2004

Why don't you change your name to Testsuo Shima?

[Kurashima]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Why don't you change your name to Testsuo Shima?

Because i like my name as it is thank you very much. Do you have any idea the funny looks ill get when i go to my local golf club to sign up next month?

"Name"
"Tetsuo Shima"
"Get out"

[Marilyn Manson]

Golf is for fat middle-aged men and other associated losers.

We'd be doing you a favour.

[Starbucks]

If I had to make a choice between Howard and Johnson for Prime Minister, it would be Boris every time.

Imagine how ****ing cool it would be to have Boris Johnson as the Prime Minister

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Starbucks

If I had to make a choice between Howard and Johnson for Prime Minister, it would be Boris every time.

If I had to make a choice between Howard and Pol Pot as Prime Minister, it would be Pol Pot every time.

[Starbucks]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

If I had to make a choice between Howard and Pol Pot as Prime Minister, it would be Pol Pot every time.

how about leftwin?

[Marilyn Manson]

Leftwing should ideally be proclaimed Emperor of Britain.

[Kurashima]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

Leftwing should ideally be proclaimed Emperor of Britain.

Hes Already proclaimed himself that. Shouldnt he be doing something different once they get into office?

[Vaio]

Boris got sacked for shagging a women. The rest of the tory party would rather stick to shagging their old school 'chums' or rent boys, whichever is cheaper

~Vaio~

[meglamaniac]

Vaio first in with the cheap "gay tories" shot.



Wahey!

[Vaio]

you would have thought someone else would have brought it up sooner

~Vaio~

[Kurashima]

Originally Posted by Vaio

you would have thought someone else would have brought it up sooner

~Vaio~

Most of the people here are too young to remember Mr "Dead in a Binbag with an Orange in his mouth and a bird in the bag".

[Marilyn Manson]

I don't know whether to be encouraged or distressed by the fact that there is some form of womanhood who wishes to have sexual intercourse with someone like Boris Johnson.

[Kurashima]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

I don't know whether to be encouraged or distressed by the fact that there is some form of womanhood who wishes to have sexual intercourse with someone like Boris Johnson.

Bearing in mind your preference for "Anything with a warm wet hole" , i fail to see your reasoning.

[Marilyn Manson]

I don't do animals.*







* Apart from Stuart.

[Kurashima]

Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

I don't do animals.*







* Apart from Stuart.

Animals were not mentioned in the previous statement. I think youre reading too much into it, and at the same time, providing certain clues into the lifestyle you lead.

[Marilyn Manson]

I still say that woman in the Thompson advert was mega-hot.

[Dante Hicks]

MM is utterly right in this thread. Boris is nothing but a joke (an unfunny one at that). Every party needs idiots in it's ranks, but that's entirely the reason you have back benchers. To think that Boris has some sort of nationwide universal appeal is to make the usual mistake of assuming the niche tastes of "zany" students applies to everyone.

Plus, anyone who thinks Ken Clarke isn't well known is showing their (lack of) age rather badly. He was chancellor for 4 years, for god's sake.