RaH????

[K-W]

Originally posted by Aaranaf
im speakin to good ol LENIN in pm right now

<[ViruS]Aaranaf> 1 vs 1 i always felt we could take rah (lets not get into the debate though, as i undersatdnably know you will disgree)
<LENIN|OUT> no i agree you had a **** load of flack members
<[ViruS]Aaranaf> yeah
<LENIN|OUT> we had 50 members
<[ViruS]Aaranaf> we had 250 members including infection
<LENIN|OUT> good members they may be but in the begining we had 50 strong core
<LENIN|OUT> virus had at least 3X that


thats a HUGE difference. now if RaH was the same size as ViruS but with same memberskil averages or whatever, things coulda been a different story. by a resonable logic, virus could tie up RaH fleets 5x over. so in logic that cancels rah out perhaps, so its some ViruS ships/legion/titans vs Fang/fury? i dunno - makes sense in my mind

Virus would crush Rah, but that by no means proves your point. And I think some of virus, Legion, Titans vs Fury and Fang is very much to Fury/Fang's advantage.

How about this subquestion that matters alot in how you answer this question. Counting both defense and attack rank the rd 7 allainces disragarding politics.

Fury, Legion, Titans, VIrus, ToT, Fang, Rah

This is my list without thinking too much, I may edit it:
Fury
Fang
Titans
Virus
Legion
Rah
ToT

Edited list after some more thought. I did shortchange titans originally. I would have liked to see a Fang Titans 1v1 matchup.

[isildurx]

Just loooking at what alliance had the most members in the top 100:

Fury: 28
Legion: 16
Virus: 14
Fang: 6
Titans: 7
RaH: 4

This may not give a very good picture, since many alliances had many players in te top 100-250 or just below that.

But Fang having under half the amount of top 100 players that virus\legion had, legion\virus also had more top gals, so i do not seem to manage to understand why you rate Fang above legion and virus.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by K-W
Lets look at what happened instead. Fury walked over titans.(though for some strange reason some titans actually argue this point) Fang held off Legion and Virus for a while and managed to damage them and give them a pretty good fight.

Titans and FAnG chose different ways to fight their wars. Titans ended up better than FAnG. Check the rankings. FAnG chose to fight for their roids (which was wrong). Titans chose to kill ships and lose the roids. Losing roids does not amount to being walked over. And we did have less members than FAnG.

Oh, and every single FAnG member that ended in the top 100 were in protected galaxies (Fury/Legion/Virus) and chose to not fight the war, so they couldn't be hit. Every single Titans member fought in the war vs Fury or was removed. So bare that in mind when consulting the final rankings. We did lose a few top 100 ranking members from people who lost their protection due to fighting for Titans, and who were then afk, as it was the summer, holiday season etc, and were easy pickings once their Fury/Legion galaxy mates knew they were offline.

And let's not forget that Legion were hitting Titans as well, though Biggdogg's I-wanna-kill-Titans attitude, whereas Fury were not hitting FAnG.

Originally posted by Aaranaf
rah and fang were both relativly new, though so was titans

Titans played round 6, and took a beating like everyone else, and came back to end with a decent few ranked players, including the biggest FLTTV member of round 6. We were a lot more experienced than RaH or FAnG.

Originally posted by isildurx
i do not seem to manage to understand why you rate Fang above legion and virus.

Because Kjeldoran's the only person who has been nice to him since. Ho ho ho.


I remember in round 7 FAnG doing more for the war than Legion, Virus, ToT and RaH did, simply in relation to the amount of targets claimed in #monkeybusiness. I think Fury took the most, followed by Titans, then FAnG. But FAnG did create a lot of other problems and did cause problems in the block.

I don't know how Germ thinks he can measure people on defence, but he must know a lot about everyone else's alliances, which he seems to hate people claiming about his.

I'd also suggest that he is downranking Titans because he's trying to get us back over round 8, in some sad little kiddy way, but he'd only call me stupid and attack my character rather than my point.

Your turn, ladies.

[Razorback]

@ Scouse, some valid points but not all entirely correct.
Legion protected some Titans planets by giving no retals (PSI_K issue) which leaded to fury doing the same, so infact both sides protected "their" galaxys whcih prolonged the war since the most active or biggest hostile players were simple off the hitlist.

Another point which is not entirely correct is the statement about the fang relations. Soon Fury saw themself seeing Fang planets defending and attacking Fury-gals or planets, so indeed there were retals (even in bigger amounts) going to Fang planets.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Razorback
@ Scouse, some valid points but not all entirely correct.
Legion protected some Titans planets by giving no retals (PSI_K issue) which leaded to fury doing the same, so infact both sides protected "their" galaxys whcih prolonged the war since the most active or biggest hostile players were simple off the hitlist.

He was the only Titans planet being protected by his gal, and he wasn't one of our biggest. All of our top 100 players from the final rankings took part in the war against Fury. I remember being told by Legion members they were unhappy that they couldn't hit the big FAnG planets because they hadn't lost protection yet.

[Razorback]

Originally posted by Scouse
He was the only Titans planet being protected by his gal, and he wasn't one of our biggest. All of our top 100 players from the final rankings took part in the war against Fury. I remember being told by Legion members they were unhappy that they couldn't hit the big FAnG planets because they hadn't lost protection yet.

I can only state what ive seen myself, which was midwar a general retalblocking into mixed gals with legion. You might remember paracida where Fred "stole" us the retal after legion finally granted it. In my personal view this came from the still held interests of Fred to make his galaxy finish first, Any support on the titans front would have made it more likely that his gal would come out lucky.

[Axis_WLF]

[quote]Originally posted by Razorback
[b]@ Scouse, some valid points but not all entirely correct.
Legion protected some Titans planets by giving no retals (PSI_K issue) which leaded to fury doing the same, so infact both sides protected "their" galaxys whcih prolonged the war since the most active or biggest hostile players were simple off the hitlist.

Sort of but what really happened was BD planets kept attacking Legion but when we would try to launch back , fang would moan and even launch defence or retals , but when we talked to fury about hitting those fang that kept interferring we were told no and fang even though we werent allied kept denying hitting the BD , yet noone tried to help us out by making those BD stop launching. Later it was discovered our targets were leaked to those we were gonna hit <least the BD ones for sure> so it became difficult to claim targets because we felt they would just be leaked.

R7 was a very odd round but it was still alot of fun heh. Legion had its problems with fred and the consortium thing , which I remember helping sort it out with germania. Fang seemed ****y and we wanted to hit them because deep down we knew they were crap , but just protected by fury. Fury had problems with groups of peeps wanting to leave possibly form their own group <mainly a few BCs and some old fury members> cause they did not like the way cryptic or some others ran things. It was a victory NOT shared by one alliance , I dont care what alliance your in Legion could not have done well without fury , fury could not have done well without Legion. Virus, fang , rah even titans still did well considering all that happened. Props gotta go to titans whom heavily outnumbered still managed to make dents and survive.

[MAdnRisKy]

The statistics you guys are using are mis representative.

Without being too nit picking about when you should rank them (given that the end of the round rankings when titans pretty much became everyone's whipping boys in terms of being the only really viable targets left - although in fairness we crushed an awful lot of fleets in that process, titans were probably the the alliance with the most planet kills to their name in rnd 7) you need to factor in alliance size in your numbers.

You see if one block wins a war it is likely their members will do well, irrespective of individual talent anyway. And it is also thus likely that an alliance 3 times as big, will have 3 times as many planets in the top 100. Ranking alliances based purely on "how many were above a certain benchmark" is thus not an acceptable measurement. What is infact required is "what is the deviation of those above the bench mark with the expected number".

(lies, damned lies and statistics)

If fury had say 200 members if you include Wrath not an unreasonable number I would have thought, and Titans had roughly 90 if memory serves then we can expect without doing any calculations that fury should have twice as many in the top 100 as titans, and that proves not a jot of fury being better than titans if they did, it would infact only prove that fury were not up to it if this ratio was less than that.

These points are completely irrespective of who did what in any war, but should be taken into consideration when people start quoting you raw figures.

[Razorback]

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
snip

Your logic is flawed because you use statistics which dont resolve arround the real universe at all.
By your logic if we had lets say a virus with 300 members in the top 100 and a ToT with 60 members aswell Virus would need 5 members per ToT member in the top 100 to be called equal, so if infact ToT had 10 members in there Virus would need 50 additionals to be considered equal ? That is far off, First of all you must note down that top100 rank is not top100 rank, simply from the long roundtime and from the exponential growth a top2 planet had simply 3-4 times the firepower of a top90 planet. Furthermore you cant compare raw numbers as not every planet was active, so infact Virus might have had 300 planets on paper, all active ? hardly. whilst titans might have maintained a highly active 60 ppl core.
Furthermore and in this im refering to scouse who brought this point up first, you must estimate how active a planet is in the war. A planet marked in the top100 as Virus or any other alliance (im taking Virus/ToT as examples to avoid any more legion/fury arguments) would still have to FIGHT for Virus, and not just sit the round out to be worth the name. So infact a notification of 7 top100 planets means nothing if those 7 arent dedicated to their alliance (r7 was private galaxys so many loyalties were indeed towards gal prior to alliance). Take Valvy for example who went on day 2 she left for titans into vacation mode and came never back, still managed a top21 ranking.
Furthermore it would be hard to proof how much damage was done, simply from the fact that different tactics can not be evalued while final ranking can be. As much as i congratulate Scouse to his successfull and partly annoying guerillia campaign, Titans did neither purely hit Fury (they might have hit planets in fury gals thats correct) neither did it pay off for them remarkably. They can claim well played which would every enemy support, but incase of "winning" you must bring up the real ratios of the round end.

In my opinion (again in support of scouses previous post) its pretty hard to decide who of the "underdogs" did better. Whilst Fang claims their strategy held off Virus AND Legion, Titans claim they did damage to the other side. So its pretty hard to decide which one did better in his selfclaimed task as they are totally different and even after 3 additional rounds the personal views are still hardened.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by BLACK_OPPS
i got 4

Rumad
Hinch
Acidrain
Leff

I'm quiet sure leff never posted that since he's all paranoid when comes to AD and posting

rgds Kj

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by isildurx
Just loooking at what alliance had the most members in the top 100:

Fury: 28
Legion: 16
Virus: 14
Fang: 6
Titans: 7
RaH: 4

This may not give a very good picture, since many alliances had many players in te top 100-250 or just below that.

But Fang having under half the amount of top 100 players that virus\legion had, legion\virus also had more top gals, so i do not seem to manage to understand why you rate Fang above legion and virus.

that major crap ffs. We got hit by 2 alliances damnit. with no war we would have more top planets as Virus OR legion and Titans would have had more top planets aswell.

rgds Kj

[Razorback]

Originally posted by isildurx
Just loooking at what alliance had the most members in the top 100:

Fury: 28
Legion: 16
Virus: 14
Fang: 6
Titans: 7
RaH: 4

This may not give a very good picture, since many alliances had many players in te top 100-250 or just below that.

But Fang having under half the amount of top 100 players that virus\legion had, legion\virus also had more top gals, so i do not seem to manage to understand why you rate Fang above legion and virus.

Those numbers are also inaccurate, check on scouses history site the r7 endrankings. I have only checked for Fury/Wrath and was already above 30 and titans were above 7 aswell.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Razorback
Those numbers are also inaccurate, check on scouses history site the r7 endrankings. I have only checked for Fury/Wrath and was already above 30 and titans were above 7 aswell.

32 fury
5 rah
14 virus
6 fang
4 tot
10 titans
16 legion



Looks more kindly on titans taking the odds against them into account, but it must be noted that they had no t20 members when the round finished.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Scouse
snip

yes we chose different stategies still I believe FAnG had to deal with loads more incomming then titans. Though I hardly agree that you ended better, at all.

Before the war FAnG clearly was superior then Titans. Atleast that's how and alot of pple feel about it.
We had more top planets, more avg planets and like germ mentionned, I believe we were, aside from Fury, the alliance with mosr firepower.

About us having more members, yes, 5-10 more or something. We had tons of pple in our DB not playing PA but other FAnG community games.

And what's wrong with me getting along fine with Germania? you think he would lie just to keep me happy, mmm? If he thought FAnG was **** they he would have said it.

R8 was another story and couldn't even in the slightest way possible be compared to r7.

And yes, we caused some problems in the block and yes aside from Fury I think most alliance wanted us out or dead. But we showed we were just better then the rest in the block, maybe that might have been an important factor to kill us off, cause who would wanna lose against a new alliance?

What I also find funny is you using excuses that your members went inactive and went on vacation. But yes, it's a proven fact, everyone know that from all alliances in r7, tits had the most goin to Spain, Italy or Portugal. So I guess that excuse is as valid as it can be

rgds Kj

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Axis_WLF
Fang seemed ****y and we wanted to hit them because deep down we knew they were crap , but just protected by fury.

hahahaha, funny. Legion r7 wasn't even 1/4th of the strength FAnG was. You were nothing and you couldn't even attack us alone, you needed tripple amount of numbers.

what a joke ..

rgds Kj

[isildurx]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
hahahaha, funny. Legion r7 wasn't even 1/4th of the strength FAnG was.

so what your saying is that, if you take 4 of every legion planet, they would have equal firepower as fang?

id very much like to see a 4 x legion vs fang war.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by isildurx
so what your saying is that, if you take 4 of every legion planet, they would have equal firepower as fang?

id very much like to see a 4 x legion vs fang war.

heh, I just exaggerated to make my point. virus, tits, fury and probably also rah (if they had more members) would also have no problem taking down Legion alone.

this is an easy one

rgds Kj

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
Before the war FAnG clearly was superior then Titans.

Given the length of time you've been posting on AD I would have thought you'd have realised by now that "We were way better than you, we owned you in every way, etc etc" and "But if this, that or the other happened we woulda won" generally means you look like a tit. Back up what you're saying instead of just posting made up facts based on your own opinion.

Atleast that's how and alot of pple feel about it.
We had more top planets, more avg planets and like germ mentionned, I believe we were, aside from Fury, the alliance with mosr firepower.

You didn't have more top planets, I have the top 250 rankings from every week in round 7, and you didn't have more top members than us. You had more top 10 players than us, but he got deleted, remember?

Titans claimed more targets than FAnG did on a daily basis, there's about 40 people who were there at the time that may still have logs to show that.

About us having more members, yes, 5-10 more or something. We had tons of pple in our DB not playing PA but other FAnG community games.

<@Scouse|bbs> your intel astounds me
<@Lockhead> lol
<@Kjeldoran> well dunno howmuch members ya got
<@Kjeldoran> but you surely got a whole bunch more galaxies as fang has
<@Scouse|bbs> more galaxies doesnt mean more members
<@Kjeldoran> but you have more members, that's not the issue
<@Scouse|bbs> more members than fang?
<@Kjeldoran> yes
<@ParraCida> fang posted on boards they have 110 members
<@Scouse|bbs> well
<@Scouse|bbs> and 120
<@Scouse|bbs> and 130
<@ParraCida> yes but 110 in the end
<@Kjeldoran> here we go again ...
<@Scouse|bbs> so titans have 220 members?
<@Heartshunter> we do?
<@Scouse|bbs> according to Kjeldoran logic

<@Kjeldoran> when I said twice as much
<@Kjeldoran> then my point was you got more pple
* @ParraCida smiles
<@Kjeldoran> thought you were mature enough to realize that instead of trying to find an arguement
<@Scouse|bbs> but youre still saying we have more members than fang
* @ParraCida smiles more
* @ParraCida smiles more and sees Kjeldoran dig himself deeper

What I also find funny is you using excuses that your members went inactive and went on vacation. But yes, it's a proven fact, everyone know that from all alliances in r7, tits had the most goin to Spain, Italy or Portugal. So I guess that excuse is as valid as it can be

It wasn't an excuse, FAnG probably had the same thing happen. My point was that galaxy mates were ratting out our members to Fury/Legion and they had little of surviving when their own galaxy mates were after them.

hahahaha, funny. Legion r7 wasn't even 1/4th of the strength FAnG was. You were nothing and you couldn't even attack us alone, you needed tripple amount of numbers.

what a joke ..

See my first point.

[Scouse]

Oh, and:

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
Titans had roughly 90 if memory serves

We didn't have that many. Probably about 70 having kicked a few due to their galaxy > alliance loyalty.


Good point though, MAd.


[EDIT] I've just found the round 7 Titans members list, we had 75 dead-on when the round ended, that included a few scanners and part-time players.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Scouse
too long to quote ...

Scouse, I got no problems admitting when some alliance is better then FAnG. I do recall me congratulating you for winning r8 and beating us. Fact that I do not agree with Titans being superior to FAnG in r7 isn't because I don't wanna accept defeat, it's simply because I do not believe there's any truth in it.

I don't have all stats or anything from back then (resetted multiple time between then and now).

Look, you think Fury would plainly lie to everyone and claim we were good while we weren't, according to you? Asmuch as you think Fury are liars and do nothing but that, they don't say those things for no reason.
But just because every other alliance in FLTV likes to talk down on us it's probably easier to believe their opinion, cause let's face it, we never had our rep in our advantage.

About tits claiming more targets, mmm. Easy to explain, FAnG did more raids alone, with BD or ToT. Heresy (bg) also never reserved from the FLTV list and well, most Heresy were FAnG.

I do not think Titans hit more targets during an avg evening, maybe you took more from the FLTV list, that could be true.

I'm not gonna discuss the TU incident, he was closed cause technically he cheated yes, but we all know the real story and I guess everyone should decide for himself which kind of cheating they find the worst.

About the legion thing, I even do believe your opinion on that would be equal to mine but I think you're just questionning that to maybe use it as a proof that my opinion isn't right.

I do think everyone aside from the titans hating us, and legion itself and some Virus and ofc some other non FLTV pple, would kinda agree Legion clearly wasn't anywhere near strong in r7.

rgds Kj

(btw, since parra kindly banned me, could you tell me what channels you might hang out where I won't get banned aswell or dunno? )

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
Look, you think Fury would plainly lie to everyone and claim we were good while we weren't, according to you? Asmuch as you think Fury are liars and do nothing but that, they don't say those things for no reason.

I never said Fury were lying. As I've said before, in round 7 plenty of Fury command, including execs, made it clear to us that we were their best ally, and did in most in taking down the enemy, alongside them. For all I know they might have been sprouting the same thing to you and other allies, but Germania wasn't one of the people I was referring to. I'm sure there will have been members in Fury who preferred FAnG over Titans, as their was vice versa.

About tits claiming more targets, mmm. Easy to explain, FAnG did more raids alone, with BD or ToT. Heresy (bg) also never reserved from the FLTV list and well, most Heresy were FAnG.

I do not think Titans hit more targets during an avg evening, maybe you took more from the FLTV list, that could be true.

Again, claiming things and trying to pass them off with poor excuses. It was a rule that all targets should be claimed within the block, if you didn't claim them, as far as I am concerned, you wern't hitting the enemy, so you wern't helping the cause.

I do think everyone aside from the titans hating us, and legion itself and some Virus and ofc some other non FLTV pple, would kinda agree Legion clearly wasn't anywhere near strong in r7.

If you mean in comparison to their best, then you're right. But a straight FAnG VS Legion war would have been difficult to call, as both alliances' members did their attacks away from the central control of the alliance in most cases.

(btw, since parra kindly banned me, could you tell me what channels you might hang out where I won't get banned aswell or dunno? )

I'm not on PA IRC atm. And if I am #titans is the only public room I'm in.

[K-W]

Originally posted by isildurx
Just loooking at what alliance had the most members in the top 100:

Fury: 28
Legion: 16
Virus: 14
Fang: 6
Titans: 7
RaH: 4

This may not give a very good picture, since many alliances had many players in te top 100-250 or just below that.

But Fang having under half the amount of top 100 players that virus\legion had, legion\virus also had more top gals, so i do not seem to manage to understand why you rate Fang above legion and virus.

Simple, in the war where legion and virus fought fang and BD, fang and BD did a very good job holding off two allainces that were bigger than them. The top 100 only tells you so much. Legion and Fury tended to have the superstar players, that doesnt neccessarily reflect on the overall allaince strength or ability.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Scouse
Titans and FAnG chose different ways to fight their wars. Titans ended up better than FAnG. Check the rankings. FAnG chose to fight for their roids (which was wrong). Titans chose to kill ships and lose the roids. Losing roids does not amount to being walked over. And we did have less members than FAnG.

I know a few other alliances that "chose" to not fight for thier roids and resort to fleetcatching. Those would be all the allainces that ever lost. When you give up your roids, you lose. When the biggest military venture you can muster is fleetcatches, youve lost. Titans got walked over, all thier exposed planets were wiped out, so you resorted to the actions of a defeated alliance.

As for your rank, much of your membership remained protected in allied galaxies.

Anyone who was there in round 7 knows that titans didnt put up much of a fight. Which is fine, Fury were huge. I dont think anyone expected titans to last long and its not an insult to you that a substantially larger enemy overwhelmed you.

Originally posted by Scouse

Oh, and every single FAnG member that ended in the top 100 were in protected galaxies (Fury/Legion/Virus) and chose to not fight the war, so they couldn't be hit. Every single Titans member fought in the war vs Fury or was removed. So bare that in mind when consulting the final rankings. We did lose a few top 100 ranking members from people who lost their protection due to fighting for Titans, and who were then afk, as it was the summer, holiday season etc, and were easy pickings once their Fury/Legion galaxy mates knew they were offline.

Every single titans member who fought in the war vs Fury was not removed. Very few titans members lost thier protection. Actually extremely few. Legion and Virus mostly granted one time retals only. Making it nearly impossible for us to fight titans in allied gals. The only ones that lost protection were those that were heavy offenders and ones that were in Fury dominated galaxies (like mine) and even among those very few lost protection. Heartshunter and ado were actually very unlucky to be in my gal because I refused to be a hypocrite and protect them, though most hostile titans were fairly protected.

Yah the only titans who got hurt were on vacation...

Originally posted by Scouse

And let's not forget that Legion were hitting Titans as well, though Biggdogg's I-wanna-kill-Titans attitude, whereas Fury were not hitting FAnG.

Legion hits on titans were few and far between. Fury werent hitting fang, we had to grab up all the titans targets or we wouldnt have had targets.

Originally posted by Scouse

I don't know how Germ thinks he can measure people on defence, but he must know a lot about everyone else's alliances, which he seems to hate people claiming about his.

Pardon? when did I claim to know any specific information about allainces defences. I am going simply off what I saw in the wenx war and then in the end of the round. When did I claim otherwise?

Originally posted by Scouse

I'd also suggest that he is downranking Titans because he's trying to get us back over round 8, in some sad little kiddy way, but he'd only call me stupid and attack my character rather than my point.

Well your suggestion is, as usual, a bad one. This ranking has no significance, so how could I possibly think it would hurt you? The only person ive ever seen put that kind of significance on such silly things is you. You make these discussions a matter of pride, i certainly do not. I have a bad memory, I tossed that list down to start discussions. Its probably wrong, it was simply meant to promote discussions. But you are still so emotionally tied up in this you will find some evil motive in everything.

And, I will explain to you for the 100th time, Titans, not Fury care deeply about round 8. I really dont care about round 8. Fury certainly doesnt need to rely on round 8 for its legacy. We went in to rd 8 figuring wed get hit hard for being Fury and just hoping to pull it off, I personally was fairly inactive. Now that LDK has won rd 9, Titans are the 1 and only allaince that relies on round 8 for thier legacy, thus you care deeply about it and it means an aweful lot to you. But stop making the rather foolish mistake of thinking I care about it too.

[DiabZ]

Originally posted by K-W
Simple, in the war where legion and virus fought fang and BD, fang and BD did a very good job holding off two allainces that were bigger than them. The top 100 only tells you so much. Legion and Fury tended to have the superstar players, that doesnt neccessarily reflect on the overall allaince strength or ability.

Actually, Legion had around 70 members who were active, and I'd say around 40-60 of them were really good alliance players. They offered ships nightly most of them, and attacked like gods (Atleast I enjoyed the activity when we arranged attacks mostly.). After all, we were a greedy bunch

[Scouse]

Yay. I've been waiting for this all day. A Germ reply.

Originally posted by K-W
When you give up your roids, you lose. When the biggest military venture you can muster is fleetcatches, youve lost.

With a couple of weeks left roids don't mean much. It's hardly like this was our tactic from the beginning of the round, now was it?

Titans got walked over, all thier exposed planets were wiped out, so you resorted to the actions of a defeated alliance.

Define 'Wiped out'. I see plenty of top 100 Titans planets, and plenty of top 250 Titans planets. Some are lacking roids, but plenty had lots and lots of fleet left, considering they were 'wiped out'. Consult the logs of your galaxy channel, Germ. The logs of your fellow Fury command members from that channel, saying they didn't want to attack Titans planets anymore due to fear of fleetcatching, and defence on those few planets that did choose to keep their roids.

As for your rank, gimme a break. You were in shared gals. Once we cleaned out your non mixed gal members we faced a retal situation that was rediculous. Only getting to hit a few members a night is obviously no way to fight an alliance. And then we reached a point where we were getting very few retals from Legion or Virus due to various reasons.

All Titans members lost their protection and were wide open to the 'mighty Fury military power'. They fought for Titans and swiftly lost protection. The few that didn't fight for Titans were removed from the alliance, with their Fury protection still intact.

Every single titans member who fought in the war vs Fury was not removed. Very few titans members lost thier protection. Actually extremely few. Legion and Virus mostly granted one time retals only. Making it nearly impossible for us to fight titans in allied gals. The only ones that lost protection were those that were heavy offenders and ones that were in Fury dominated galaxies (like mine) and even among those very few lost protection. Heartshunter and ado were actually very unlucky to be in my gal because I refused to be a hypocrite and protect them, though most hostile titans were fairly protected.

My point was that every Titans member fought in the war against Fury or were removed, and should have lost their protection, going by Fury rules. It's not our problem your adminstrative side of the block wasn't in order, and you couldn't clear retals quick enough. They were attacking/defending VS Fury day in, day out.

Pardon? when did I claim to know any specific information about allainces defences. I am going simply off what I saw in the wenx war and then in the end of the round. When did I claim otherwise?

You attempted to rank alliances on attack AND defence. Defence was handled by each alliance independantly, how the hell do you know how each alliance was doing with defence?

Its probably wrong

Germania admitting he could possible be wrong. What a turn up for the books.

And, I will explain to you for the 100th time, Titans, not Fury care deeply about round 8. I really dont care about round 8. Fury certainly doesnt need to rely on round 8 for its legacy. We went in to rd 8 figuring wed get hit hard for being Fury and just hoping to pull it off, I personally was fairly inactive. Titans are the 1 and only allaince that does, thus you care deeply about it and it means an aweful lot to you. But stop making the rather foolish mistake of thinking I care about it too.

Where did I mention round 8? Go on, point it out to me. Please.












Oh, I didn't. That's right. Don't you realise the "I don't care line" when you lose just makes you look like a plonker? No? Well, it does. You did care or you wouldn't have even bothered playing and you certainly wouldn't have been an Executive.

But I didn't mention round 8, so let's not go there.

[ParraCida]

Originally posted by K-W
Can you write this stuff with a straight face? I know a few other alliances that "chose" to not fight for thier roids and resort to fleetcatching. Those would be all the allainces that ever lost. When you give up your roids, you lose. When the biggest military venture you can muster is fleetcatches, youve lost. Titans got walked over, all thier exposed planets were wiped out, so you resorted to the actions of a defeated alliance.

Incorrect, Titans started using that tactic at the very beginning of the war, had we chosen to fight for our roids we would have lost them slower than we did now. We choose to do damage from the start, and we succceeded.

How you can possibly claim that having us roid you silly while you killed a few ships was you doing well is beyond me.

Because Fury had 3 times the members as Titans, because they were able to get ingalaxy defense, to use attack groups to attack with, yet still not be able to defend ETA 7 fleetcatches into their top galaxies (hello to 23:23).

As for your rank, gimme a break. You were in shared gals. Once we cleaned out your non mixed gal members we faced a retal situation that was rediculous. Only getting to hit a few members a night is obviously no way to fight an alliance. And then we reached a point where we were getting very few retals from Legion or Virus due to various reasons.

Incorrect again, all Titans members gave up their protected status in shared galaxies from the start, either that or get kicked.
One way or the other, there was no Titan member (bar psi) that still had protection.

Anyone who was there in round 7 knows that titans didnt put up much of a fight. Which is fine, Fury were huge. I dont think anyone expected titans to last long and its not an insult to you that a substantially larger enemy overwhelmed you.

Oh we 'lost' the war allright, we knew we were going to lose it, you knew we were going to loose it, everyone knew we were going to loose it. There is simply no figthing against a force that outnumbered you 5:1 without being able to use attack groups or getting ingalaxy defense. That much is a given, we did not however go down without a fight. Personally I roided a top 10 HC planet of RaH in a top 10 galaxy, another fury member in 23:23 (top 5 galaxy) lost a large part of their fleet. There were many misc fleetcatches and I roided 3000 hostile roids (60% of my starting roids) before I had to loose them to the entire 23:23 and 2 top 10 planets after a diversionary attack at valy's place (at which btw 100 mil fury fleet died after they managed to not pull in sight of overwhelming defense)

Every single titans member who fought in the war vs Fury was not removed. Very few titans members lost thier protection. Actually extremely few. Legion and Virus mostly granted one time retals only. Making it nearly impossible for us to fight titans in allied gals. The only ones that lost protection were those that were heavy offenders and ones that were in Fury dominated galaxies (like mine) and even among those very few lost protection. Heartshunter and ado were actually very unlucky to be in my gal because I refused to be a hypocrite and protect them, though most hostile titans were fairly protected.

Where do you come up with this crap, it was simple. Everybody fought, I cannot recall one single titan member telling me they could not defend. Even Psi helped out by sending me red defense during the 23:23 attack on me. In spirit and in planet every titan member was involved in the war, no matter what it meant to them or their planet (lo ahri with 7 fury members ingal).
You ofcourse might have had some trouble hitting me at the start, but that was because I had my pretty legion friends protect me / claim me as a target and never hit me and talk big infront of teh fury to make them not attack me.

Legion hits on titans were few and far between. Fury werent hitting fang, we had to grab up all the titans targets or we wouldnt have had targets.

So you didn't hit fang at all? Well, I do wonder how you were able to actually get any roids at all considering you had to attack the 30 odd unprotected Titans with 200+ members + attack groups. There weren't that many hits from legion on Titans, but there were enough, some pulled when they found out it was Titans and we asked them, others didn't. It was mostly a BD / Fred thing in legion, those that were with DTA/Fred didn't hit us and helped us when possible, those that weren't hit us on occassion.

And, I will explain to you for the 100th time, Titans, not Fury care deeply about round 8. I really dont care about round 8. Fury certainly doesnt need to rely on round 8 for its legacy. We went in to rd 8 figuring wed get hit hard for being Fury and just hoping to pull it off, I personally was fairly inactive. Now that LDK has won rd 9, Titans are the 1 and only allaince that relies on round 8 for thier legacy, thus you care deeply about it and it means an aweful lot to you. But stop making the rather foolish mistake of thinking I care about it too.

Anyone that ever worked with Titans knows we didn't have to rely on Round 8 only, in fact I'm quite sure you are going through such great lengths to tell everyone Titans was a puhsover and didn't do a lot in Round 7 just to make it look as if we actually only had Round 8 to count on.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Scouse

Again, claiming things and trying to pass them off with poor excuses. It was a rule that all targets should be claimed within the block, if you didn't claim them, as far as I am concerned, you wern't hitting the enemy, so you wern't helping the cause.

well I backed it up with proof. I said we did attacks with BD and tot aswell. Whether we helped the cause or not hardly is relevant here.

rgds Kj

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
well I backed it up with proof. I said we did attacks with BD and tot aswell. Whether we helped the cause or not hardly is relevant here.

The ones we targetted as a block were the ones that won us the war, not roiding nothing galaxies in the search of roids.

And whether you helped the cause or not is mega relevant. You're claiming to be better than everyone else, bar Fury. Hitting big hostile galaxies is what mattered, and you wern't doing that, because your attack groups were off doing whatever the hell they wanted.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Scouse
Where did I mention round 8? Go on, point it out to me. Please.












Oh, I didn't. That's right. Don't you realise the "I don't care line" when you lose just makes you look like a plonker? No? Well, it does. You did care or you wouldn't have even bothered playing and you certainly wouldn't have been an Executive.

But I didn't mention round 8, so let's not go there.

ohh look scouse

"I'd also suggest that he is downranking Titans because he's trying to get us back over round 8, in some sad little kiddy way, but he'd only call me stupid and attack my character rather than my point."

amuzing ain't it, you actually did refer to R8 and Germania in the same context

ooops

rgds Kj

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Scouse
The ones we targetted as a block were the ones that won us the war, not roiding nothing galaxies in the search of roids.

And whether you helped the cause or not is mega relevant. You're claiming to be better than everyone else, bar Fury. Hitting big hostile galaxies is what mattered, and you wern't doing that, because your attack groups were off doing whatever the hell they wanted.

Mr leader of Heresy, can you plz tell me what target I should hit tonight?

Scouse, you know NOTHING about what or who we hit with BD/tot/heresy ...

so don't make assumptions either

rgds Kj

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
ohh look scouse

"I'd also suggest that he is downranking Titans because he's trying to get us back over round 8, in some sad little kiddy way, but he'd only call me stupid and attack my character rather than my point."

amuzing ain't it, you actually did refer to R8 and Germania in the same context

ooops

rgds Kj

Germ was referring to Parra's point about round 8 being a reflection on round 7, which I didn't mention at all.

But I suppose I did mention round 8. My bad.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
Mr leader of Heresy, can you plz tell me what target I should hit tonight?

Scouse, you know NOTHING about what or who we hit with BD/tot/heresy ...

Correct. But I know who you didn't hit. Ha ha ha.









That being those big hostile galaxies I referred to.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by ParraCida

Because Fury had 3 times the members as Titans, because they were able to get ingalaxy defense, to use attack groups to attack with, yet still not be able to defend ETA 7 fleetcatches into their top galaxies (hello to 23:23).

amuzing ain't it, considering FAnG did a fair amount of dmg to that galaxy aswell

Ohh sorry, this probably isn't the same as what you were claiming, is it?

rgds Kj

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Scouse
Correct. But I know who you didn't hit. Ha ha ha.









That being those big hostile galaxies I referred to.

rofl again, you have no clue what we had, yet you "know" we didn't hit certain targets?

remarkably funny ain't it

rgds Kj

[ParraCida]

How unfair of you kjel, you know very well that we can't say we hit other targets as well because we had like this stupid 15% rule to deal with :/

[K-W]

Originally posted by Scouse
With a couple of weeks left roids don't mean much. It's hardly like this was our tactic from the beginning of the round, now was it?

Ok... I dont follow, yes roids mattered less, but we arent arguing that, we are arguing whether Titans put up a fight. Letting us take what we wanted (the roids) doesnt amount to putting up a fight. The reason your planets kept thier ships and that we stopped attacking you was because we were really only interested in the roids, and after our first waves of attack many of your planets turned into aweful targets and thier galaxy m8s dropped below the cap. Our members werent motivated to attack them and we didnt really care enough to rouse them to kill your fleets. Im simply not sure how that means we didnt have a fairly easy time of it.

Originally posted by Scouse

Consult the logs of your galaxy channel, Germ. The logs of your fellow Fury command members from that channel, saying they didn't want to attack Titans planets anymore due to fear of fleetcatching, and defence on those few planets that did choose to keep their roids.

Yes, after the first series of roidings were done, there was very little interest in attacking titans anymore as I explained above. And sure as heck fleet catching scares players who want to preserve rank. We were also weary of LDK fleetcatches... are you now going to argue that LDK did great in rd 7? Being able to fleetcatch top players doesnt take many ships and doesnt mean you were strong or did well. To me it means youd given up doing well as an allaince and chose instead to get some measure of revenge by scaring and hurting some high profile people. Its fun im sure, but its the act of a beaten alliance. As far as your defence, yes, when we only hit a very small number of titans you were able to defend... for whatever that proves.

As far as my galaxy, they were taking retals on titans planets up till the end as were many Fury. There simply wasnt any profit in hitting non retals and retals were gambles because with us only hitting 5 titans planets a night you could defend rather easily. I still fail to see your point.

Originally posted by Scouse

My point was that every Titans member fought in the war against Fury or were removed, and should have lost their protection, going by Fury rules. It's not our problem your adminstrative side of the block wasn't in order, and you couldn't clear retals quick enough. They were attacking/defending VS Fury day in, day out.

Well Fury rules had nothing to do with it. And it wasnt a matter of things not being in order. Have you ever done retals scouse? It sounds to me like you simply dont understand the process. It was Legion and Virus's political choice to not drop protection and to grant retals the way they did. It wasnt your fault, nor did I say it was. What is your point? I dont see how this in any way relates to the discussion. The simple fact was that most Titans planets did not lose thier protection and we could only hit them through retals which were politically difficult to get. Therefore on a given night we were hitting several titans members. Thus making it very easy for you to defend them. not to mention that lots of galaxies defended the titans, because they knew that it was hard for us to get retals on them.

Originally posted by Scouse

You attempted to rank alliances on attack AND defence. Defence was handled by each alliance independantly, how the hell do you know how each alliance was doing with defence?

Umm, are you joking? You are asking me how can someone not in an allaince form an opinion of thier defensive abilities? I seriosly hope you can answer that yourself. Or are you telling me that you played pa for all those rounds without ever having a clue what the defensive capabilities of other allainces were from what you could see as an ousider? I seriously doubt youve thought this question through.

Originally posted by Scouse


Where did I mention round 8? Go on, point it out to me. Please.

Originally posted by Scouse

I'd also suggest that he is downranking Titans because he's trying to get us back over round 8
.

done, your memory going bad scouse?

Originally posted by Scouse

Oh, I didn't. That's right. Don't you realise the "I don't care line" when you lose just makes you look like a plonker? No? Well, it does. You did care or you wouldn't have even bothered playing and you certainly wouldn't have been an Executive.

But I didn't mention round 8, so let's not go there.

Well I just showed that you did mention round 8, so this is rather funny. But seriously, could you stop misreading for a couple of minutes please.

Of course I cared during round 8. And I didnt like the fact that we didnt win, but we werent expecting to win, and things never got to the point that they were really bad. Also it was our last round so it didnt hold as much meaning.

But the point is we are looking at a retropspective here. Round 8 was one of 8 rounds that Fury played. We lost some, we won some. My point is I care no more about round 8 than any other round, I have no fixation on it, I have no desire for revenge on it. We got hit hard in round 4 and round 6 too. And Those losses hurt much more than round 8. So your claim that I am posting for petty revenge for round 8 when rd 8 wasnt emotionally something that I or any Fury members feel very bad about is silly.

[ParraCida]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
rofl again, you have no clue what we had, yet you "know" we didn't hit certain targets?

remarkably funny ain't it

rgds Kj

Quoted before someone points it out to him and he edits it.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by Scouse
Germ was referring to Parra's point about round 8 being a reflection on round 7, which I didn't mention at all.

But I suppose I did mention round 8. My bad.

no, you mentionned Germ and r8 in the same context which was:

you claiming Germ talks down on you out of grudges of r8. You used r8 to talk down on Germania so don't come here claiming it was you referring to parra's point.

Whether you did that intentionally or not, I don't know, but don't go denying you did cause it's there black on white.

rgds Kj

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by ParraCida
Quoted before someone points it out to him and he edits it.

heh well, that quote makes absolutely no sence to me so care to explain or you feel to "good" for that, mm?

Scouse first claims he doesn't know what we (as in fang and bd, tot and heresy) hit, but he knows what we didn't do? That's abit contradicting isn't it?

rgds Kj

[ParraCida]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
heh well, that quote makes absolutely no sence to me so care to explain or you feel to "good" for that, mm?

No, I thought it was so blatantly obvious you would figure it out in a short period of time all by yourself.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by ParraCida
How unfair of you kjel, you know very well that we can't say we hit other targets as well because we had like this stupid 15% rule to deal with :/

ya so? since when would that be a problem for titans?

rgds Kj

[Kjeldoran]

Originally posted by ParraCida
No, I thought it was so blatantly obvious you would figure it out in a short period of time all by yourself.

well I didn't ([sarcasm]so go mock with it cause clearly you're superior ...[/sarcasm]). Maybe it's just me, dunno

rgds

[ParraCida]

Originally posted by Kjeldoran
ya so? since when would that be a problem for titans?

rgds Kj

"I know what you are but what am I" type arguement, I'm stunned, I have no reply. I think you might have bludgeoned me to death with your wit or something.

[K-W]

Originally posted by ParraCida
Incorrect, Titans started using that tactic at the very beginning of the war, had we chosen to fight for our roids we would have lost them slower than we did now. We choose to do damage from the start, and we succceeded.

Ok... so you chose to not put up a fight. I guess I have to not hold your military strength as accountable for the ease at which we roided you. Though I would question your decision of letting us take what we wanted and settling for small revenge attacks.

Originally posted by ParraCida

Because Fury had 3 times the members as Titans, because they were able to get ingalaxy defense, to use attack groups to attack with, yet still not be able to defend ETA 7 fleetcatches into their top galaxies (hello to 23:23).

Maybe you dont quite understand the nature of fleetcatches parra. We had a hard time with ldk fleetcatches too, and they werent exactly high on the rankings. If you send enough ships to fleetcatch, and are aiming at hurting the planets ranking, its very very difficult to defend against it. Allainces that have been beaten have always had alot of success doing fleetcatches.

Originally posted by ParraCida

Incorrect again, all Titans members gave up their protected status in shared galaxies from the start, either that or get kicked.
One way or the other, there was no Titan member (bar psi) that still had protection.

So I sat around getting retals every night from Legion and Virus for my health? Im sorry parra but you are dead wrong. And I 100% know this as a fact because I was the one who made the arrangements.

Originally posted by ParraCida

snip

Im not sure why you are arguing, I think we agree. We aimed at grabbing titans roids. You saw that you couldnt stop us from doing so, so you gave up your roids and resorted to fleetcatches and focused high profile attacks. Fine, but to me such attacks are very superficial. I dont see those as putting up a fight, I see those as trying to grab some revenge. We did what we wanted to do with titans with little resistance. Then Titans joined LDK in being alliances that we had roided past usefulness, but were still a problem because they were fleetcatching etc.

So yah, where is your problem with what I have said?

Originally posted by ParraCida

Anyone that ever worked with Titans knows we didn't have to rely on Round 8 only, in fact I'm quite sure you are going through such great lengths to tell everyone Titans was a puhsover and didn't do a lot in Round 7 just to make it look as if we actually only had Round 8 to count on.

Erm, you are missing my point. The biggest trophy any allaince can have is to have won a round. For Titans, rd 8 was your win. Many allainces have been "good" many have had good rounds. But few allainces have won a round and Titans certainly should be proud fo that. I was simply pointing out that rd 8's outcome meant more to titans than to Fury, as it was a down round for us where we had no expectations and for you it was the round you won. I wasnt trying to take anything away from titans' good performances in other rounds.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by K-W
Letting us take what we wanted (the roids) doesnt amount to putting up a fight. The reason your planets kept thier ships and that we stopped attacking you was because we were really only interested in the roids, and after our first waves of attack many of your planets turned into aweful targets and thier galaxy m8s dropped below the cap. Our members werent motivated to attack them and we didnt really care enough to rouse them to kill your fleets. Im simply not sure how that means we didnt have a fairly easy time of it.

That was exactly our plan. You got what you wanted. We got what we wanted. Super.

We made the best out of a bad situation.

To me it means youd given up doing well as an allaince and chose instead to get some measure of revenge by scaring and hurting some high profile people. Its fun im sure, but its the act of a beaten alliance. As far as your defence, yes, when we only hit a very small number of titans you were able to defend... for whatever that proves.

We knew we would lose the war, we knew we'd lose roids, so we preserved our rank, by making ourselves poor targets, and keeping our ships. We fleetcaught with those ships, instead of defending, and had a great deal of fun in doing so, plenty more fun than we would have had defending members all day, every day, until the round ended.

What is your point? I dont see how this in any way relates to the discussion.

My point was that no Titans members hid behind their galaxy protection, unlike all the big FAnG planets who did. I pointed it out as to why FAnG still had big planets left when the round ended, and even then they had less than us.

Umm, are you joking? You are asking me how can someone not in an allaince form an opinion of thier defensive abilities? I seriosly hope you can answer that yourself. Or are you telling me that you played pa for all those rounds without ever having a clue what the defensive capabilities of other allainces were from what you could see as an ousider? I seriously doubt youve thought this question through.

No, I'm serious. It's difficult to know how well an alliance defends their members, rank being a good indication. Hostile alliances would know a lot more about an alliances defence capabilities, than it's allies ever would, as they always run into it. Unless ofc the alllies spent lots of times news scanning their allies members, every day, for the entire round. I have no idea who gathered defence easier out of FAnG, Fury, Legion and Virus. I'm suprised that you think you do, tbh.

Also it was our last round so it didnt hold as much meaning.

I would have thought that would have made it mean a whole lot more. I know it did for Titans.

Originally posted by Kjeldoran

Scouse first claims he doesn't know what we (as in fang and bd, tot and heresy) hit, but he knows what we didn't do? That's abit contradicting isn't it?

rgds Kj

It must be the language barrier. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

My point was that you didn't hit our true enemy, as they were claimed in the topic of #monkeybusiness everyday*. Get it?



* - You know, the 'Tonight we hit LDK, target are X:Y, X:Y, X:Y etc' type.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Scouse
My point was that no Titans members hid behind their galaxy protection, unlike all the big FAnG planets who did. I pointed it out as to why FAnG still had big planets left when the round ended, and even then they had less than us.

Well I disagree with your point. Most titans members in allied galaxies were protected making it exceedingly difficult for us to get to them.

Originally posted by Scouse
I have no idea who gathered defence easier out of FAnG, Fury, Legion and Virus. I'm suprised that you think you do, tbh.

I never claimed I could tell who gathered defence easier. I simply based it on overall military structure as best I could percieve it. Because we were discussing a hypothetical. What each person thinks on that hypothetical is a derivitive of thier perception of each allainces overall strength in att/def.

This is all based around a hypothetical war discussion, so of course its going to involve lots of speculation and guessing, that was the whole point. Why youve chosen to attack me for that is beyond me.

Originally posted by Scouse

I would have thought that would have made it mean a whole lot more. I know it did for Titans.

Well we didnt know it was our last round until it ended, so there was no special emphesis on it.

[ParraCida]

Germania, why do you insist on saying you can't fight a war by using fleetcatches? How come in your opinion a war is apparantly only fought by taking roids. It was late in the round, roids didn't matter that much at all. We choose to fight by doing damage, we succeeded. We could have stopped you from taking our roids a fair bit, as you say fang even managed to pull it off on their top planets, imagine how Titans would do it? Fact of the matter is that we couldn't have kept you from taking them for very long, thats the thing when you are outnumbered to hell. We could have delayed the process and gain nothing for ourselves.

I don't see how fleetcatching is only something loosing alliances would do, Titans did it in R8 when we were winning, LDK did it last round when they were winning. Just because you might be afraid to loose some precious score when you're already winning doesn't mean that others do, they actually care more about destroying others than loosing 1.2 mil of their endscore. Fleetcatching has always been a valid tool, just because you don't think its worth to sacrifice own score for an already 'mostly won' war that doesn't make it true.

I will say it again, there was absolutely NO Titan planet left that didn't join in the war except for Psi's planet. Just because you had problems with Legion and Virus thats not our problem. From our point of view every Titan member did what was asked from them, if you had troubles in dealing with Legion and Virus getting certain planets hit, then it might have been because they had a hell of a lot more respect for those planets than for the people that were trying to hit them.

And yes, winning a round is the greatest boon. But theres more to it then that, just look at xanadu. You stated that we relied on Round 8 for our legacy, not just that it meant more to Titans then to Fury.

[Scouse]

Originally posted by K-W
Well I disagree with your point. Most titans members in allied galaxies were protected making it exceedingly difficult for us to get to them.

FAnG members purposely did not attack/defend with FAnG, to keep their galaxy protection, to keep their higher ranks. Most likely at request from the HC.

Titans members purposely did attack Fury and defend fellow Titans members, risking their rank.

You get it now?

[K-W]

You can fight a war using fleet catches. Did your fleetcatches significantly hurt Fury, NO, they didnt. Doing several fleetcatches is not a war campaign parracida. Fleetcatches are often used in wars, I dont think any war that was based soley on fleetcatches would go well. Until rd 10 starts PA is about roids.

Allainces that are winning do some fleetcatches, all allainces do, you see a scan, and say "what the heck" but the only allainces I have ever seen who focused thier military solely on fleet catching were allainces that had already lost. Titans werent the winning allaince catching a few fleets for fun, so Im not sure why you compare yourselves to allainces who did that. That wasnt what you did, you werent rd 8 titans or rd 9.5 xan or rd 10 ecl. You werent in that position so those comparisons are bad. The comparison to ldk is much better, they lost thier chance to win the round, so they used fleetcatches to get some fun and revenge. That is all titans did.

I never said it was your problem we didnt get retals. Why do you and scouse keep saying that. Stop attacking me on unrelated topics that ive not contested. The point is that for whatever reason Titans planets were protected. Thats all. So please stay on topic.

And yes, winning a round is the greatest boon. But theres more to it then that, just look at xanadu. You stated that we relied on Round 8 for our legacy, not that it meant more to Titans then to Fury.

Actually I said both those things. But I guess reading is not very trendy these days. You do rely on rd 8 for your legacy. Titans without round 8 is a significantly less impressive legacy.

[K-W]

Originally posted by Scouse
FAnG members purposely did not attack/defend with FAnG, to keep their galaxy protection, to keep their higher ranks. Most likely at request from the HC.

Titans members purposely did attack Fury and defend fellow Titans members, risking their rank.

You get it now?

Erm scouse, Read the thread, I never said otherwise. I never adressed or argued this point. Any other points that ive never argued that you guys want me to "get now"?