Round 10 idea; what do you think?

[Killerbij]

Since we are going to have real traveltimes based on the coordinate system I came with the following idea;

Why not use a gravity system based on your neighbourhood?

Let me work the idea out below.

Once a planet grows to say over 1000 roids the roids mass starts to exceed the planet's one. However as we all know gravity is based on relative masses and range. Due to these properties gravity will only affect your direct neighbourhood. Lets say a planet has the coors 1:1:1 and its target 1:2:5; the distance would be sqrt 27. Lets call the neighbourhood (in which gravity has effect) anything below 100. Lets say planet 1:1:1 has 1250 roids yet planet 1:2:5 only has 250. The mass difference is a factor 5. For now we take the gravity's effect edge 3.


Since 5>3 (due to the mass difference) it will take planet 1:1:1 one extra tick to reach its neighbour since it costs more energy to get away from his planet. On its return it will take a tick less to return due to the gravity carrying it home. In effect the traveltime will be the same but the small planet has more reaction time.

Now reverse the example; planet 1:2:5 gathers his friends in his vicinity to attack planet 1:1:1 who roided them all. All of his friends are small. They thus have 1 shorter traveltime on their way to 1:1:1. On their return they will take an extra tick though due to the gravity fluctuations pulling them back to 1:1:1.

The effects of these changes:
- people will be forced to work with their neighbourhood instead of roiding them mindlessly
- roiding farther away has benefits now
- those who get roided badly can finally strike back because it will be hard for the big planets to get defense in time
-a big planet being friendly to the neighboorhood instead of allies can get low eta defense from them as long as they are small

[Scouse]

Good idea.

[Wandows]

/me fluffles Killerbij :P



i like the id , as long as it stays @ 1 tick extra send time and 1 eta less return time.... eventhough this would also effect the ability to send defence to smaller members (assuming it is done "fair").. but still sounds nice

[das_experiment]

very interesting

[Gerbie]

Originally posted by Killerbij
Why not use a gravity system based on your neighbourhood?

Let me work the idea out below.

Once a planet grows to say over 1000 roids the roids mass starts to exceed the planet's one. However as we all know gravity is based on relative masses and range. Due to these properties gravity will only affect your direct neighbourhood. Lets say a planet has the coors 1:1:1 and its target 1:2:5; the distance would be sqrt 27. Lets call the neighbourhood (in which gravity has effect) anything below 100. Lets say planet 1:1:1 has 1250 roids yet planet 1:2:5 only has 250. The mass difference is a factor 5. For now we take the gravity's effect edge 3.


Since 5>3 (due to the mass difference) it will take planet 1:1:1 one extra tick to reach its neighbour since it costs more energy to get away from his planet. On its return it will take a tick less to return due to the gravity carrying it home. In effect the traveltime will be the same but the small planet has more reaction time.

Interesting idea. I have no idea how you are calculating things though. The distance between 1:1:1 and 1:2:5 is sqrt 17. However i don't see anywhere where you use this distance.

Later you say if you have >3 times the roids of your opponent you will get an extra tick to get there and one tick less to return. (to make it short)

[CrazyConrad]

Very good idea !!

The more roids you get the "bigger" you have to attack to get a decent travel time.

Could prove to be very "n00b" friendly...

[Killerbij]

Originally posted by Gerbie
Interesting idea. I have no idea how you are calculating things though. The distance between 1:1:1 and 1:2:5 is sqrt 17. However i don't see anywhere where you use this distance.

Later you say if you have >3 times the roids of your opponent you will get an extra tick to get there and one tick less to return. (to make it short)

Yep your right about the sqrt ; been a long day etc The distance is used to decide wether or not a planet is in your neighbourhood. I also messed up saying distance 100 would be neighbourhood; would be too big. My suggestion would be something like sqrt 25. So anything within a distance of 5 coors or less. This distance is used to calculate wether or not the gravity rule will apply to your attack. If your target is closer than the maximum gravity distance (distance <sqrt 25) it will apply. If it is say 2:5:8 the distance would be sqrt(1+16+49)=sqrt 66

Since sqrt 66>sqrt 25 the rule wont apply as the target planet isnt in your neighbourhood. Only when the target is in your neighbourhood the gravity (and thus the roidfactor of 3) can affect your traveltime.

[mulan]

yea, sounds like a v good idea to me, cud help even the balance out against those big n00b bash0rs \o/

[Structural Integrity]

The gravity idea sounds very good. But for the sake of simplicity, if you want to put in the gravity bit, leave the absolute distance part out.

[Killerbij]

Originally posted by Structural Integrity
The gravity idea sounds very good. But for the sake of simplicity, if you want to put in the gravity bit, leave the absolute distance part out.

You could also make it more complicated (but realistic) by having the gravity's effect be a function of your roids too. More roids means a bigger area of effect. So if you have a lot of roids your neighbourhood (and thus the ppl who have an eta advantage to attack you) will be bigger.

[Structural Integrity]

Originally posted by Killerbij
You could also make it more complicated (but realistic) by having the gravity's effect be a function of your roids too. More roids means a bigger area of effect. So if you have a lot of roids your neighbourhood (and thus the ppl who have an eta advantage to attack you) will be bigger.

I reread you post and I think I see where I missed the point. I thought you wanted to make traveltime depend on amount of roids with a function.
So, you want to change TT with one hour if the ratio between the roids differ with more that a factor (x) (3 as you mentioned).
I'd say, increase/decrease traveltime directly depending on size.

To use your example:
p1 has 1250 roids
P2 has 250 roids

ratio = 5:1

Increase/decrease traveltime depending on the ration (so, no treshold as you mentioned). In this example you increase TT with 5 hrs for p1, and decrease TT with 5 for p2.
Perhaps these values need to be moderated or capped at a minimum and maximum, but that would be an option too.
Or you could base this on score... saying that gravity equals score in fleet or something like that.

This would level the player field quite a bit.

Good thinking Killerbij!

[Gerbie]

A few more remarks.

1. The idea proposed would mean a support planet heaven as well.

2. The proposition only allows a 1 tick TT difference. I would prefer a difference of 1 tick at a factor 2 and 2 ticks at factor 4.

3. Perhaps a distance based system could be incorporated. To calculate distances I believe it has already been decided that a non-pythagoran system should be used becasue it is easier to calculate: 1:2:5 there has a distance of 0+1+4=5 from 1:1:1. In this system a distance of 1-5 could give for instance travel time 5, 6-10 6 ticks etc.

4. I don't really see the use of a gravity edge. Ofc travel times should be limited, since nobody likes traveltimes of 1 tick or 24 ticks. But there already is a limit proposed to maximum travel times. A minimum should not be so hard to include as well.

5. Since both the distance based travel time and the roid factor/gravity correction factor are quantimized (since you have a tick-based system) perhaps a combination of both could reduce the effects of this quantimization (which will increase complexity though).

[Narziss]

what do u Guys think about the thing with alliances in R10?

sounds really strange to me

does that mean no own alliance-webbies anymore and stuff?

I'm so tired....can't read this f****** announcement properly

[JonnyBGood]

Originally posted by Killerbij
- those who get roided badly can finally strike back because it will be hard for the big planets to get defense in time

Nice idea and I hope someone reads this. To just pick up on one point you mention I don't quite understand how big planets won't get defense in time. Using your theory won't defensive fleets be attracted to the big planets? Or are you just implying that relatively speaking the difference means that difference is comparatively harder to get there in time? Surely the difference would still only be one tick though?

[Killerbij]

Originally posted by Gerbie
A few more remarks.

1. The idea proposed would mean a support planet heaven as well.

Thats where the neighboorhood system and a gravity edge would come in handy; only a few planets in you direct neighboorhood will have an eta advantage. This would mean a planet would need massive ammounts of support planets to get a few close to home. In a random p2p round this will be too expensive.

2. The proposition only allows a 1 tick TT difference. I would prefer a difference of 1 tick at a factor 2 and 2 ticks at factor 4.

I am inclined to agree with you here; depends on how low the basic etas are I guess

3. Perhaps a distance based system could be incorporated. To calculate distances I believe it has already been decided that a non-pythagoran system should be used becasue it is easier to calculate: 1:2:5 there has a distance of 0+1+4=5 from 1:1:1. In this system a distance of 1-5 could give for instance travel time 5, 6-10 6 ticks etc.

Yep a distance system would be very usefull especially when you use neighbourhoods and a gravity edge. How the distance is calculated doesnt matter imho.

4. I don't really see the use of a gravity edge. Ofc travel times should be limited, since nobody likes traveltimes of 1 tick or 24 ticks. But there already is a limit proposed to maximum travel times. A minimum should not be so hard to include as well.

A gravity edge will force you to work with a random group of ppl in your neighbourhood instead of depending solely on your old allies and friends. This only applies for a fixed edge ofcourse.

5. Since both the distance based travel time and the roid factor/gravity correction factor are quantimized (since you have a tick-based system) perhaps a combination of both could reduce the effects of this quantimization (which will increase complexity though).

Dunno what you exactly mean by this but if you mean values have to be rounded and categorized per eta I guess you could just use 1 traveltime formula if you use a universe-wide gravity system. If you use a neighboorhood system it wouldnt be that much different either since it will just be an extra substraction or addition if a planet is in your neighbourhood.

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Nice idea and I hope someone reads this. To just pick up on one point you mention I don't quite understand how big planets won't get defense in time. Using your theory won't defensive fleets be attracted to the big planets? Or are you just implying that relatively speaking the difference means that difference is comparatively harder to get there in time? Surely the difference would still only be one tick though?

Well if you use the neighbourhood system it would mean that only a few planets (lets say a 200 of which 150 are a factor 3 smaller) got a significant eta advantage. So there will be few allies in those 150. Spinner also mentioned alliance members will have a fixed eta toward each other. In order to avoid the game from getting boring the neighbourhood should have an eta as low (or lower) as the alliance one if the planet is big. This would mean that big planets can't just rely on their allies but need to start looking for friends close to home.

If you do away with the neighbourhood idea and extend the gravity to the entire universe it would indeed only mean a shorter reaction time to get defense in.

[Gerbie]

Originally posted by Killerbij
Thats where the neighboorhood system and a gravity edge would come in handy; only a few planets in you direct neighboorhood will have an eta advantage. This would mean a planet would need massive ammounts of support planets to get a few close to home. In a random p2p round this will be too expensive.

Hmm since having escort planets is illegal, I gues they would probably not hasitate to swap escort planets if necessary.

[wubanger]

About your idea killer....



I like it, but perhaps not really best for PA as we know it atm, with more ppl this could be really interesting though imo. Keep cranking out the innovations m8ty, I really thought this one was well thought out with all levels of players in mind, something a lot of suggestions tend to neglect

[Teddy_Bear]

i love this idea unfortuanly i dont think PA team would use it as they did not think of it them selves :P

if i ever decide to sit down a game simular to this ur idea will help me alot as i think i could work very well in helping little players and slowing the larger ones, ofcoarse it might need a litttle tweaking