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Unread 9 Dec 2010, 16:12   #1
cbk100
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Salvage change

I would change the PA code slightly such that the salvage gain is rank dependent. The salvage gain (measured in percentage points) should be a decreasing function of planet score rank. I would make it quite extreme in the sense that #1 planet get 0% salvage, #2 planet somewhere close to 0% (maybe 1%) salvage. Somewhere around rank 200 something like 30% salvage. Somewhere around rank 500 maybe 60% in salvage which should probably be the maximum possible level.
I'm sure I (or someone else) can come up with a reasonable function for the salvage level as a function of planet score rank.
Preferable I would even make it stochastic, such that the salvage can varry (probably still with 60% being a maximum). Naturally stochastic salvage is suggested to make the game slightly less predictable, but also such that low rank planets can't just stay in battles over and over again and be sure to gain those 60%. Maybe low rank planets should get a random draw between 40-60% salvage back.

The motivation behind the idea of rank dependent salvage is first of all to avoid the lame end game salvage race. If one wants to keep the standard system in the beginning of the round and then graduately switch to a varying salvage formula towards the end of round then that's pretty easy to implement too.
Second, a varying salvage rate will help low rank ppl, which seems like a pretty good idea in a small universe (which we have been seeing for quite some rounds) where larger planets just run small planets over time after time.

Zik will benefit from such a change, but that is easily countered by nerfing their stats slightly.

So far I have not been able to think of any serious downside of doing this.
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Unread 9 Dec 2010, 16:30   #2
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Re: Exciting end to round??

Why are salvage from attacking ships a part of this game again?
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Unread 9 Dec 2010, 17:25   #3
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Re: Exciting end to round??

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk100 View Post
I would change the PA code slightly such that the salvage gain is rank dependent.....
So far I have not been able to think of any serious downside of doing this.
Are you aware the current salvage formula is:

Code:
Score Modifier
There is also a score modifier. This means that smaller planets get a bonus of up to 50% to their salvage. This modifier is non-negative.
Score Modifier = 50%*(1-your_planet_score/average_top20_planet_score)
Total Salvage
Total Salvage = base_salvage * (1 + race_bonus/100)) * (1 + score_modifier/100)
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Unread 10 Dec 2010, 13:02   #4
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Re: Exciting end to round??

Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra View Post
Are you aware the current salvage formula is:

Code:
Score Modifier
There is also a score modifier. This means that smaller planets get a bonus of up to 50% to their salvage. This modifier is non-negative.
Score Modifier = 50%*(1-your_planet_score/average_top20_planet_score)
Total Salvage
Total Salvage = base_salvage * (1 + race_bonus/100)) * (1 + score_modifier/100)

Nahh tbh I wasn't aware of that. Been away from the game for too long, sorry.

Doesn't change my point though, which is to make the function even more extreme and more based on rank as opposed to score. As it is now that score modifier is not really flexible enough. It still opens very much up for salvage farming for the top planets.
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Unread 10 Dec 2010, 13:55   #5
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Re: Salvage change

Moved this to PS.
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Unread 10 Dec 2010, 16:24   #6
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Re: Salvage change

For me, the main thing salvage is (sort of) good at, is giving new players a chance to rebuild (at least to a degree) if they get faceraped in the night. This is an important aspect of keeping new players, and the salvage system should award them high %'s according to rank/score (probably higher than they are now). This should be a sliding scale so the top 100 or so are reduced to 10% at most. Salvage should be a failsafe, not a game changing mechanism.

I don't think salvage is really needed as incentive to defend in general. If you lose a tick of roids that can effectively end your round, so the requirement for alliance members to defend each other is still there.

Any player still playing in the last week of the round can safely be considered "no longer new" (and if they are new, its going to be a shit 1 week round for them anyway). An easy solution is to just turn off salvage when vacation mode is disabled.

The end of round donations are pretty ridiculous, and I'm not sure there is a much that can be done to alleviate that with the current system. The MH's are going to have a very hard time determining a crash from a well orchestrated donation (though they seem to be ignoring even obvious ones at the moment). The community also can't be trusted to get it right. A change in mechanics or a physical restriction is the only real way.
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Unread 10 Dec 2010, 18:16   #7
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Re: Exciting end to round??

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk100 View Post
Nahh tbh I wasn't aware of that. Been away from the game for too long, sorry.

Doesn't change my point though, which is to make the function even more extreme and more based on rank as opposed to score. As it is now that score modifier is not really flexible enough. It still opens very much up for salvage farming for the top planets.
Well, given that rank is based 100% on score, can you tell me what difference making the formalae reflect rank rather than score is going to make?
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Unread 10 Dec 2010, 18:18   #8
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Re: Exciting end to round??

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Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
Why are salvage from attacking ships a part of this game again?
Why is salvage part of this game again anyway?*

Take salvage out altogether, and then let's see how much fun fleetcatches can be...
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Unread 11 Dec 2010, 08:26   #9
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Re: Exciting end to round??

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Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
Well, given that rank is based 100% on score, can you tell me what difference making the formalae reflect rank rather than score is going to make?
Well, the most simple answer would be that it also could be based on score too. I was pretty much just brainstorming. How the specifics should be could be very different from what I initially suggested. I kinda just wanted to start a debate.

There are a few things you (or at least I) would want the salvage system to accomplish.

1. #1 planet can get no salvage:
To achieve this you can either create a function that is a function of rank or of score. If it's a function of rank then when you substitute the rank 1 into the formula it will return 0. If you want it to be a function of score I guess one could somewhere in the formula multiply by something like (1-"your score"/"#1 rank score").

2. Other top planets gain close to no salvage:
Either a function of score or rank can achieve this.

3. low rank ppl obtain high salvage:
In the beginning of rounds (say up to tick 300) score difference between #500 and #1 is not all that high (maybe a ratio 1/3 by tick 300), which means that even these low rank people get a quite dramatic salvage reduction. Naturally, I guess one could just set the base salvage number pretty damn high. Getting 2/3 of 90% salvage is still 60%.

Actually basing the formula on score could make good sense since then later in the round low rank planets get even more salvage (measured in percentage points) than they do early round due to the ratio between say #500 and #1 is higher at maybe 1/5. All else equal, this gives lower rank players an easier time later in the round compared to earlier in the round, inducing them to stay longer.
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Unread 11 Dec 2010, 08:47   #10
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Re: Salvage change

The salvage is only part of the problem. In the end of round donations, the other issue is stealing. No surprise the top 10 is only steal races. Some scores are just too outrageous to be honest. The first non stealer in the rankings has all my admiration and should get a free credit for the performance.
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Unread 11 Dec 2010, 11:00   #11
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Re: Salvage change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
The salvage is only part of the problem. In the end of round donations, the other issue is stealing. No surprise the top 10 is only steal races. Some scores are just too outrageous to be honest. The first non stealer in the rankings has all my admiration and should get a free credit for the performance.
Not really, stealing itself usually ain't so bad. It can turn into a major issue combined with massive salvage.
Value steals aren't that easy to accomplish. I've just scanned the t10 planets, most of them have little portions of stolen fleet really and a good part of those stolen ships probably weren't value steals either. Reese might have made quite a good gain with all the phantoms, but that's about it.
Of course it is hard to tell how many of the voyagers/vendors of the Etds have been stolen using dealers, but in general I'd say the major issue is salvage gained while stealing, not value steals.
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Unread 11 Dec 2010, 11:59   #12
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Re: Salvage change

Quote:
Originally Posted by rUl3r View Post
I've just scanned the t10 planets
That's altogether too much effort to go through. Why bother with facts if you know your opinion is correct?
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