Xandrithii in Round 9

[furball]

Yep, I'm in the mood to go for them in round 9. Terran's stuff feels like too high eta for me, Ziks can be annoying and Cathaar will probably just get swamped on incomming if I get into any big battles.

On the other hand, Xandrithii will be able to make attackers take losses due to pretty good initiative and having a cloaked fleet and the current mil scans will make life a bit harder for anyone who wants to roid/kill me.

Possible fleet might be:
Vsh Fi for Fi/Co
D. Pulsars for Fr/De
L. Sentinels - C sink as well as having T3 = ALL
Vultures ofc
C. Broadsword for Cr/Bs

With this I can target all classes.

However, I'm thinking that I might want some Fr stuff like TBTs and Lancers to make sure that I can get to people even if they have loads of Fi-killers. But then - they have higher ETA.
And then people build Arrowheads which I don't get - surely Vsh Fi are better at this?

Any advice would be very welcome.

Cheers.

[mens]

you need something to flak your vultures.
now when they have 9 HP you definately need arrowheads to take the hits. (or bombers if you're weird )

[furball]

ah right ok I'll probably get some arrowheads, maybe a few bombers as well for alliance defense and flak. But what about Fr ships?

[-QS-]

You should leave away the broadies imo!

I`d build vsh, pulsar, sentinel, arrows, vults, bomber. yes, you do not target BS, but when do u have to target em? the most common BS is wyvern, which wont target your fleet then...

[furball]

yeah but I have a feeling that some Cathaars will build mass guardians = bs

or will sentinals be good enough against them?

[-QS-]

don`t think sentinel will mot be nuff, but i also don`t think mass guardians will be around + guardian is eta 9, so you got enough time to get def from universe, c and p, ingal...

[Domin]

Originally posted by -QS-
don`t think sentinel will mot be nuff, but i also don`t think mass guardians will be around + guardian is eta 9, so you got enough time to get def from universe, c and p, ingal...

Remember the guardians can travel incluster and inpara as well...

I played the beta and i was xan but i didn't realy need to much a c sink cause of some xan ships costs more c now..

could been my ratio..

[Cochese]

Definetly get yourself some CO in that fleet.

Arrowheads are popular, though they don't have as high an EMP resistance as Bombers, but more armor, and target the same ships Vsh do but with a higher initiative. Though in the early round, when FI/CO based fleets are the most common, they are probably a safe bet.

After Terran Destroyers begin appearing, it's probably time to start focusing on Bombers, which will add a little firepower in the anti-Destroyer and Frigate department. They are also better to flak Vultures with against Cathaar, having higher EMP resistance than the Arrowhead...but less armor.

[Moondoggie]

Vultures armor hasn't been changed. It's in the topic in #helpdesk.

There will be loads of guardians around late in the game. They are too powerful to not build. Some cath will just build them for def, while others will go all out in a cruiser and battleship fleet. I know I did, in the beta.

[Ultimate Newbie]

The Vsh/Pulsar/Vulture/Broadsword fleet you said was the exact same fleet i set out with last round. however, having any amount of vsh means that you have alot of spare C lying around - this is where the Sentinels and Arrowheads come in. both these units use alot mroe C than Vsh (hell, anything does ) and thus it balances your ratio a bit more.

wrt Xan FR - dont bother with them, as they are outgunned by FI and/or CO. The exception is the Broadsword, which is an excellent unit against Cathaar in particular (as they have difficulty targeting FR - expecially through all your CO).

My fleet last round eventually evolved into a Pulsar/Sentinel, Arrowhead/Vulture, Broadsword fleet, which mind you was highly effective and almost as efficient as Xan could get.

This round, although the Arrowhead has had 2 guns removed (i think!), they will still be useful C sink and Vulture flak, and their anti FI guns should still proove useful against beetles and other such annoying FI.

[Iceaxe]

The arrowhead only lost 1 gun.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by Iceaxe
The arrowhead only lost 1 gun.

beh

not as bad as i thought then

[Tactitus]

Originally posted by Ultimate Newbie
The Vsh/Pulsar/Vulture/Broadsword fleet you said was the exact same fleet i set out with last round. however, having any amount of vsh means that you have alot of spare C lying around - this is where the Sentinels and Arrowheads come in. both these units use alot mroe C than Vsh (hell, anything does ) and thus it balances your ratio a bit more.

However, with a private galaxy and a bit of planning, there should be ample opportunity to trade your excess C for M and buying something better than Sentinels.

[SpazMonster]

Originally posted by Iceaxe
The arrowhead only lost 1 gun.

and price went up further reducing efficiency per cost

Personally I'd stay away from arrowheads and do as you said in #strategy : vsh, pulsar, bomber. Can't do any better than that.

[Iceaxe]

Thats what I'd be doing if I was going Xand.

[furball]

Originally posted by Tactitus
However, with a private galaxy and a bit of planning, there should be ample opportunity to trade your excess C for M and buying something better than Sentinels.

I will be in a good private galaxy but all the same I'd rather have a balanced fleet rather than constantly turning to the fund to help me out.

Probably I'll go for bombers and leave the arrowheads alone - the bombers look quite good now (didn't play round 8 so forgot about the firepower change - they were pretty crap in r7). Broadswords will be built for those annoying Cathaar guardians (also helping out in alliance defense).

Ultimate Newbie - yeah heh I'd seen your plan from before and most of your stuff makes sense

[MelAn]

...why do ppl bother about BS at all?
The war will be won/lost when they come into game, besides the eta is so "generous" that nobody has to fear BS

Besides staying away from arrowheads seems also "starry-eyed" to me due the fact that they give your co fleet a lot of additional armor. (quite useful for the "pasted board hull" xan ships have )
It's just a question of the right mix of arrow/bomber..

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by Nonentity
Ultimate Newbie - yeah heh I'd seen your plan from before and most of your stuff makes sense

well, at least there is ONE person playing this game that thinks that what i babble on about makes sense!!

i'm not a believer. :\


Tac: That's all well and good, but Arrowheads werent THAT bad last round, and tbh i cant remember how much more they now cost.

its not liked i attacked at all anyway :\

[furball]

Originally posted by MelAn
...why do ppl bother about BS at all?
The war will be won/lost when they come into game, besides the eta is so "generous" that nobody has to fear BS

Besides staying away from arrowheads seems also "starry-eyed" to me due the fact that they give your co fleet a lot of additional armor. (quite useful for the "pasted board hull" xan ships have )
It's just a question of the right mix of arrow/bomber..

I think you underestimate the importance of BS in this round. Cathaar should build them in large numbers as they target Fr, Co and Fi (the most common ships) which frankly are the only ones that xan should be building. Thus we're going to have to defend against them. --> Broadsword or loads and loads of Sentinals.

Broadsword.

Oh and Ultimate Newbie - I'm the guy who got that cathaar stuff off you when they wiped the forums.


A fan since you realise that alliances can't be relied on for everything.



Nonenity.

[MelAn]

Originally posted by Nonentity
I think you underestimate the importance of BS in this round. Cathaar should build them in large numbers as they target Fr, Co and Fi (the most common ships) which frankly are the only ones that xan should be building. Thus we're going to have to defend against them. --> Broadsword or loads and loads of Sentinals.

Broadsword.

Oh and Ultimate Newbie - I'm the guy who got that cathaar stuff off you when they wiped the forums.


A fan since you realise that alliances can't be relied on for everything.
Nonenity.

..i played beta and they had NO importance at all.(ofc i'm aware of the fact that Beta and "normal" pa is different)

It will never be important to target BS, target another ship in attackers fleet, make him loose lots of those and he'll recall even if you wouldn't kill a single BS of him.
And think about the eeeta...u have time to have breakfast when ppl atatck you with BS.

..my two cents

[furball]

I don't think that the Beta on its own can justify ignoring an entire class. Sure, if you don't get attacked it's great but if you do and allies can't cover you then life is bad.

You don't need to have loads of your fleet invested in BS-killers like the Broadsword but having a couple of k at your base might just deter a Guardian-heavy Cathaar or Man O'War-heavy Zik from attacking and make them look somewhere else. They also target CR (*cough* mantis/tula combo *cough*) - always useful if you don't have enough Bombers spare (shouldn't happen in a decent fleet but you never know).

[Ultimate Newbie]

BRoadswords were extremly useful defending against Terran fleets - where massed, massed pegasi were supported by some Wyvern. With Sentinels, all the pegasi that Terrans so dearly love will be firing on them - with broadswords its only the wyvern.

last time i looked, Broadswords had a superior initiative, and also killed Wyvern better than Wyvern killed Broadswords.

imo Broadswords are one of the two best frigates - perhaps second only to the Black Widow.

[Knight Theamion]

two words.

frig army


i really do not see why you wouldnt build a frig army asap. They are aces in M:C ratio and they shoot before your oponnent, excellent for raiding terran and cath, and you take out large chunks out of zik as well.

[dabult]

Sentinels sux bollox arse, you just get plenty and through your numbers you might scare someone...before they calc it and see how little you actually kill..

Cant say i have heavily studied the changes, but last round i had 1337 Broadswords simply to have something basic against CR..BS rarely appeared in my incs. I also used them several times for my alliance, wont be the same without ob though..

IF you decide to go with lots of FR you will IMO, become a tasty target for any other Xan out there, cheaper to kill your FR than the regular FI/CO.


My tiny opinion, based on last round

[Sun Pin]

Originally posted by dabult


IF you decide to go with lots of FR you will IMO, become a tasty target for any other Xan out there, cheaper to kill your FR than the regular FI/CO.


My tiny opinion, based on last round

i think you missunderstood him... he wanted to go for a terran FR fleet, not a xan FR fleet

[dabult]

Originally posted by Sun Pin
i think you missunderstood him... he wanted to go for a terran FR fleet, not a xan FR fleet

Well no..the threadstarter is on about Xand, nobody else even mentions terran :?

Original post
....
....
C. Broadsword for Cr/Bs

With this I can target all classes.

However, I'm thinking that I might want some Fr stuff like TBTs and Lancers to make sure.....

[Sn0w]

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
two words.

frig army


i really do not see why you wouldnt build a frig army asap. They are aces in M:C ratio and they shoot before your oponnent, excellent for raiding terran and cath, and you take out large chunks out of zik as well.

would also probably be a more efficeint way of roidin too seeing as fi/co likes to drop like flies xand fr is strong shoots strong its harder to stop fr then co :/

[Bongdage]

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
two words.

frig army


i really do not see why you wouldnt build a frig army asap. They are aces in M:C ratio and they shoot before your oponnent, excellent for raiding terran and cath, and you take out large chunks out of zik as well.

exactly, r7 i had a big 30k~ fr fleet, it was the only thing i could battle terrans with pretty much, xand frigs own

[dabult]

Xand FR fleet might behave well, atleast until the day a fat Xand comes along with a regular FI/CO fleet :]

[Knight Theamion]

Originally posted by dabult
Xand FR fleet might behave well, atleast until the day a fat Xand comes along with a regular FI/CO fleet :]

and then your galmates cover you with a few beetles and some pegasi.

When playing this game you have to find an excentrique, tho effective fleetcombination, since it is my experience that the 'standard strong combo' of any race is kinda painfull against itself, thus making it hard to get 'on top' with it.

[MAdnRisKy]

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
two words.

frig army


i really do not see why you wouldnt build a frig army asap. They are aces in M:C ratio and they shoot before your oponnent, excellent for raiding terran and cath, and you take out large chunks out of zik as well.

they don't really target the typical defence ships, would be my first thought.

who would you hit with them?

not zik, clipper would eat you alive with the only thing possible to stop them being the lancer (heh) not to mention the corsairs and cutlass


maybe terrans with low harpy numbers and high wyverns over syrens, but a lot of harpies would prove a problem, and syrens are viscious, besides which they could just move them all away and get fi def.

not cat, unless you really have a lot (widows, and later guardians and you'd have to kill all the tulas first).

Other xans? without having a decent fi killer as FR (read none) you can forget it, the pulsars would wipe you out.

[Knight Theamion]

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
they don't really target the typical defence ships, would be my first thought.

who would you hit with them?

not zik, clipper would eat you alive with the only thing possible to stop them being the lancer (heh)

maybe terrans with low harpy numbers and high wyverns over syrens, but a lot o harpies would prove a problem, and syrens are viscious, besides which they could just move them all away and get fi def.

not cat, unless you really have a lot (widows, and later guardians and you'd have to kill all the tulas first).

Other xans? without having a decent fi killer as FR (read none) you can forget it, the pulsars would wipe you out.

The lancer is while being covered by the broadsword and the tzen actually a fairly good ship. With that you would practically rip out large chunks out of terran, esp in the beginning when syrens and wyverns aren't yet arround, you are i think forgetting the fact that most of the 'decisions' of a round fall during the development of one's planet, not during the phase where everyone has newsscans.

Also this can roid cath with great ease due to the excessive number of FR

[MAdnRisKy]

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
The lancer is while being covered by the broadsword and the tzen actually a fairly good ship. With that you would practically rip out large chunks out of terran, esp in the beginning when syrens and wyverns aren't yet arround, you are i think forgetting the fact that most of the 'decisions' of a round fall during the development of one's planet, not during the phase where everyone has newsscans.

Also this can roid cath with great ease due to the excessive number of FR

the lancer's armour (the things being supported by the other fr) is not in question, it's its killing power thats weak. It's not going to stop enough of the clippers, and nothing is going to stop the fi.

I'd say that the round is probably won by the time de has been around a bit, it depends on how early peopel start attacking, and remember with the rnd 2 init style that will possibly be a bit later than before (ie rnd 7), since people are prepared to init for longer.

and anyway, arguements based on need for quick starts, don't do much for a race capable of starting at co, rather than fr.

[MAdnRisKy]

and I might add, that in the early game, primary defence is fi. even the terrans will only build fi, and you have nothing to stop it.

[Knight Theamion]

vsharrak early on ?

[MAdnRisKy]

Originally posted by Knight Theamion
vsharrak early on ?

if you're going to use vsh, why not use co ( since for the most part the vsh will be flaking them) and gain an eta advantage?

[ruxu]

Xand FR fleet could actually work, if it were a surprise to defender(s), too bad ETA will give away it's FR...

While Xand still has it's strength in FI/CO, I don't see any other point building pure FR Xand fleet, than surprise factor.

Ruxu

[hAl]

A Xan fleet of broadswords (add tbt's if there are chimera's) and pods only would really hurt especially terran players. They often must rely on either syrens or wyverns to defend against those. And especially wyverns do not like broadswords.

hAl

[mens]

most terrans have alot of harpies for ally def. The xan attacker might wanna bring something to kill those off for not loosing alot of broadies.
(dunno if it was mentioned before, didn't read the whole thread )

[Sun Pin]

Originally posted by dabult
Well no..the threadstarter is on about Xand, nobody else even mentions terran :?

sorry, wrong thread i was kinda tired last night...i remembered i had been reading something about a terran frig fleet and i thought this was the thread

[furball]

The question is - is an Xan Fr fleet better than a Fi/Co with some Broadswords fleet?

I'd still say that it isn't. A lot of stuff will be targeting Fr - look how common Wyverns, Chimeras, Widows, Pulsars, Cutters (I think) will be. I'd rather go for the Fi/Co fleet because:

1) You're going to have an awful lot of Fighters - it would be very hard for one Cathaar to EMP them all and you should have defense (and superior initiative) to all other ships that will try to take them out, e.g. Pegasi, etc.

2) Pulsars and Vsh are very good ships - if only they flaked the Vulture!

3) Sentinals may not be the best ship around but their T1/T2 targets very common ships and having T3 = ALL can only be a benefit. As a crystal sink (even if not as good as before at this), you can use the crystal on the Sentinals.

4) Bombers are good against the bigger ships - after all, 1 gun with power 15 for corvette cost is definatly worth it.

5) Vultures are ETA 3. They have two possible other flak ships. Sounds good to me.

6) Broadswords will make a Wyvern-heavy Terran's life a misery. You don't need the other Fr (TBT and Lancers) since you should have a) plenty of Pulsars and b) you can use that crystal on Sentinals.

Just my 2p.

[MegaNova]

Originally posted by Nonentity

3) Sentinals may not be the best ship around but their T1/T2 targets very common ships and having T3 = ALL can only be a benefit. As a crystal sink (even if not as good as before at this), you can use the crystal on the Sentinals.

why not have reflectors as crystal sink ??
becouse then you would be cloacked and hard to scan.

[Mi5]

Originally posted by MegaNova
why not have reflectors as crystal sink ??
becouse then you would be cloacked and hard to scan.

why waste ur res on reflectors???

[furball]

Originally posted by MegaNova
why not have reflectors as crystal sink ??
becouse then you would be cloacked and hard to scan.

you're gonna need a lot of reflectors to make a difference and there's always going to be someone who can get through. I'd rather have the ships thanks.

[MegaNova]

Originally posted by Mi5
why waste ur res on reflectors???

as xan there are 3 diffrent kinda crystal dumps
1 is trading
2 is sentinals
3 is reflectors/scans

reflectors isnt that bad if you look at the entire idea of being xan
you already are cloacked and you have a low eta so if you are very hard to scan. if you attack in cluster/para you have eta6 with pods, and assuming you attack 1-3min before tick that means eta5 incluster and then they still have to scan you with loads of amps to know whats coming. if they cant get that scan before the tick you will prolly have 1 tick atleast of free roiding.

lets just say it can give you loads of more attacking tactics.

[furball]

Originally posted by MegaNova
as xan there are 3 diffrent kinda crystal dumps
1 is trading
2 is sentinals
3 is reflectors/scans

reflectors isnt that bad if you look at the entire idea of being xan
you already are cloacked and you have a low eta so if you are very hard to scan. if you attack in cluster/para you have eta6 with pods, and assuming you attack 1-3min before tick that means eta5 incluster and then they still have to scan you with loads of amps to know whats coming. if they cant get that scan before the tick you will prolly have 1 tick atleast of free roiding.

lets just say it can give you loads of more attacking tactics.

I see your point - do you know the formula for scanning? I can't see it in the manual (ofc lol). That would determine how much you should go into reflectors over sentinals.

However, I'd still go for getting a load of sentinals, they provide some nice Co targetting when your Vsh are dealing with Fi and capital-class fleets can be defended against with Sentinal/Bomber combination.

[hyfe]

Originally posted by Nonentity
I see your point - do you know the formula for scanning? I can't see it in the manual (ofc lol). That would determine how much you should go into reflectors over sentinals.

However, I'd still go for getting a load of sentinals, they provide some nice Co targetting when your Vsh are dealing with Fi and capital-class fleets can be defended against with Sentinal/Bomber combination.

sentinels. I'm going to explode if i see sentinals just one more time

Scanning formula is: 0.3 * ((your amps / your roids) - (his reflectors / his roids))

[Silva baby]

Originally posted by Nonentity
The question is - is an Xan Fr fleet better than a Fi/Co with some Broadswords fleet?

I'd still say that it isn't. A lot of stuff will be targeting Fr - look how common Wyverns, Chimeras, Widows, Pulsars, Cutters (I think) will be. I'd rather go for the Fi/Co fleet because:

.

with the fr fleet the targets of Wyverns Chimeras Widows pulsars and cutters

Wyverns Chimeras should be no problem, a Terran would build them in the knowledge of killing a Cathaar with blackwidows, same idea with the cutters. Notebly there is alot of cathaar this round more so then xans. A xan frig fleet will completly destroy this notion of not being able to attack a pegasus heavy terran or a destroyer heavy zik, or for that matter a blackwidow raiding fleet.
Broadies destroy Wyverns, TBTs are meant to hit widows, chimera and cutters. wow u built the fleet to hit the things that kill it and intitive is better i think, acualli not too sure on that blackwidows are faster then all. but either way it screws up a similar scored oppenent depending on ur ratio of ships
a fr fleet also to some extent increases ur defence capbility. Forexample against a cathaar roiding fleet of a blackwidow, beetle and spider fleet. You would expect that you have a decent amount of co flak in bombers and arrowheads. So the beetles freeze ur pulsars vsh , the blackwidows freeze the corvetess along with the spiders

wat freezes the remainin frigs......
nothing
therefore they blackwidows will get owned and sufer huge losses
o doesn't that mean that ur a bad target for caths ?

well thats my opinion anyway

[masochist]

I'm Xan. I only know one word: Fighter

[storeslem]

cutters dont shoot fr...