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Unread 7 Nov 2004, 18:54   #1
lladroth
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Mistake in Manual

Under the races section it says

Quote:
Xandathrii

Construction: 1 ticks faster
Research: 10% slower
Production: 1 tick faster
Ships are cloaked , but have extremely poor armour and powerful weapons.
Perhaps the above was taken from the last round.

Where infact Xandarthii have extremely poor armour and have medeocre weapons.

Taking damage/cost xandathrii best being 48 and the other races having

51 - Terran
58 - Cath (47 non emp)
50 - Zik (norm & sub)
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Unread 7 Nov 2004, 20:55   #2
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Look at the average, perhaps?

Terran: 43,166666666666666666666666666667
Cathar: 41,666666666666666666666666666667
Xandathrii: 42
Zikonian: 42,75

Nope, xan is still not very impressive. Perhaps if I left the pods out?

Terran: 44,6
Cathaar: 42,4
Xandathrii: 42,4
Zikonian: 43,4

Hmm... then I dunno. I might have typed something wrong here, though.
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Unread 7 Nov 2004, 21:01   #3
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Re: Mistake in Manual

their init helps them be more powerful. but dont worry, cath and zik will own you anyway! all in all, xands & terrs are fairly crap:D
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Unread 7 Nov 2004, 21:02   #4
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Xan have a good initiative for their kill ships. That is their main advantage.
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 00:18   #5
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Xan's initiative can be seen as nothing but 3rd best, it dosnt take very many emp or sub ships to disable any possible advantage of the higher init over their kill ships.

Id just like a fair chance to compete with similar size or even smaller forces. Ziks and Cath can currently attack much larger Xans with impunity. Whereas Xans and Ter are stuck with attacking smaller planets only, its not a surprise theres only 3 Xan in the top 50.

Last edited by lladroth; 8 Nov 2004 at 00:25.
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 05:58   #6
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Re: Mistake in Manual

thing is.

Xan is a huge pile of POO this round.

There isnt even a need for discussion, as its a obvious fact
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 06:03   #7
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Re: Mistake in Manual

<Idler> I made a clever post

were all happy for you.
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 06:06   #8
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tis
<Idler> I made a clever post

were all happy for you.
wrong thread
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 06:22   #9
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Re: Mistake in Manual

neither stood out, so i took a guess
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 07:58   #10
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie
Xan have a good initiative for their kill ships. That is their main advantage.
Being "good" is all relative... relative to the other races kill ships.

So lets do a little analysis:
Dreadnought vs Rogue, same init, Rogue does a lot more damage, has more armor.

Lancer vs Thief, theif init 4, lancer init 5, thief does heaps more damage, heaps more armor and has an eta advantage. Whats that? lancers fire after all zik co fire? great init?

Broadsword vs Guardian, here is one exception where xans actually have an init and defence advantage.... but cath having a ship that does more damage than its xan 'counterpart' is a bit disturbing.

Bolts, actually a reasonable ship, but its init is A) after all BS fire and B) the highest init of all the other anti bs ships in the game and C) fires after all of ziks anti fr fires.

Bombers, init isnt that bad, but having a ship built to stop emp incomings isnt exactly that useful when its low armor make it an easy target for cath roaches... this is the main reason that a cath can roid a xan twice their size. Lets not forget to mention the fact that Centaurs do more damage/have more armor, scarabs have more firepower, and pirates have more firepower and armor.

Sentinels, again beaten on firepower, armor and same init as rogues.

Arrows, init is ok I spose.... one ship that is actually compartively ok to the zik kill ship corsair...

Pulsars - here is where the init counts - notice how they fire *before* terrans de... thats what xan is all about. But again, in comparison to the cutter its init is only 1 less (doesnt matter when both fire before terran de) and cutters armor is higher and damage is higher (but cutters are targeted by drakes so it relatively evens out). Not to mention that the caths crappy no one ever builds defender has higher armor/damage than pulsars, but does have a pretty crap init comparatively.

Also Xan Fr isnt particularly useful when the only ship that targets them that they target is the Broad (fires b4) and Guardian which fires at the same time as the bolts anyway....(and attacking terrans with fr isnt an option due to drakes, but this is common with quite a few other races also). But really, does a xan *honestly* have a chance of roiding a cath with roach? or roiding a zik with any reasonable amount of clippers?

So basically in short; Zik (and some Cath) kill ships have more armor, more damage and same/slightly higher inits than xan kill ships. Yet Zik also has the advantage of having a crap load of ships that can also sub, and have ships that can actually get roids for free. So I definetly wouldnt call choosing Xan as a race an 'advantage', the phrase "one legged man in a butt kicking contest" sounds more appropriate....

Faking Xan fr with fi also isnt an option anymore because of the compartively smaller dagger cost relative to ship numbers (eg if your a xan with 2000 fr and 30000 fi, attacking someone with 1999 daggers and 1 fr will only let you max cap 200 roids, and can be killed completly by 27 rogue, or frozen by 440 odd cutlass), compared to last round where fr/dagger value/cost was relatively closer so it was easier to fake, and actually cap roids against a smallish def fleet.

Easiest way to slightly fix the stats is to make A) Zik and Cath kill ships have a high init or B) remove all Zik and Cath kill ships from the game or C) make zik and cath ships unable to do any significant damage (comparatively to xan)
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 08:37   #11
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie
Xan have a good initiative for their kill ships. That is their main advantage.
The person responsible for this rounds stats.. should get a restraining order from future work with the shipstats.
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 09:19   #12
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storebo
The person responsible for this rounds stats.. should get a restraining order from future work with the shipstats.

Wot he said :-) ^^^
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 11:03   #13
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Re: Mistake in Manual

charming. i presume you`re extending it to include those in beta who constantly screamed out that zik was underpowered too?
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 11:37   #14
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
charming. i presume you`re extending it to include those in beta who constantly screamed out that zik was underpowered too?
PA team and a small group of testers should analyse the stats better themselves, not listen to the (BETA) mob.... Imho those beta tests with over a dozen testers are relatively useless. It should be less "play" at least, and more "test" (disable income and give every tester an amouth of resources or something).
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 11:43   #15
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Re: Mistake in Manual

problem is , if every alliance isnt represented there, the others will scream constantly about bias, and how they arent represented in " a crucial part of the beta ", and not every alliance has people up to the job quite frankly

DCs tend to be better then members, or even HC as they work with the stats day in day out, arranging defences
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 11:53   #16
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
problem is , if every alliance isnt represented there, the others will scream constantly about bias, and how they arent represented in " a crucial part of the beta ", and not every alliance has people up to the job quite frankly

DCs tend to be better then members, or even HC as they work with the stats day in day out, arranging defences
Screw alliances. The stats are (should be, at least) published a long time before ticks start, every alliance has people who know how to analyse stats, it's not like there are secret formuleas in combat anymore, so you can calculate anything beforehand.

Or else handpick 1 tester from the top10 or 15 alliances. Not just the one in command who doesn't have much time to test anyways. If that player screws up beta testing (totally inactive, "playing to win" or not obeying any other rules), that alliance looses BETAtest privilege. That will ensure each allaince will appoint an acceptable tester.
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 12:01   #17
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
problem is , if every alliance isnt represented there, the others will scream constantly about bias, and how they arent represented in " a crucial part of the beta ", and not every alliance has people up to the job quite frankly

DCs tend to be better then members, or even HC as they work with the stats day in day out, arranging defences
I wouldnt go so far to say that DC's can be better than members.... the DC's of some alliances dont really understand the stats, and by the time they do the round is often over

And bias shmias, the best people to develop stats are the better players - and these tend to be found mainly in the top ~3 alliances, and are players that have had consistently high ranks throughout the rounds. If you get sub standard players from sub standard aliances to contribute you get sub standard stats.

Before the round even started everyone knew Zik was going to be the best race, closesly followed by Cath. Everyone also knew that Terran suxed hard, and Xan was also close to follow. Well most of 1up knew this at least.......

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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 12:24   #18
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
problem is , if every alliance isnt represented there, the others will scream constantly about bias, and how they arent represented in " a crucial part of the beta ", and not every alliance has people up to the job quite frankly
Actually I'm sure you could get the alliance representatives to agree on a team, possibly even a team leader who can choose his own team. You could even hold voting sessions with majority winning, but having to take the second place on his team. There are plenty of ways to include the players in this process.

Edit: Round 6 and 7 stats were designed primarily by Petru, who was Fury/Wrath in round 6 and RaH HC in round 7. There were very few complaints about bias in those two rounds. In fact, there were very few complaints about stats *period*
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 15:14   #19
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Re: Mistake in Manual

I would like to see the option left open to tweak ship stats mid round. Xan + Ter have proven to be a missmatch when up against zik's and cath. If the numbers before hand didnt prove that, the last 600 ticks almost certainly have.

I hadnt played PA since round 6, I joined again towards the end of the last round to give it a try again. I probably should have spent longer running battle sumulations with the new numbers, but I assumed someone had done that in testing to make sure the races were relatively equal. Xandathrii looked like a useful race from reading the manual, and i was happy to sacrifice my ability to defend my roids in exchange for being able to take them from others.

What has proven to be the case is, we can only take roids with a fully commited fleet but our full fleet cant defend them from 1/3 of a zik or cath attack force from a similar sized planet. The risk vs reward is all wrong, xan's have to take a high risk caping roids from others, but zik & cath can take them away with virtually no loss.

I cant help but feel that I have wasted my money on this phase by picking the wrong race.
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 16:49   #20
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kileman
I wouldnt go so far to say that DC's can be better than members.... the DC's of some alliances dont really understand the stats, and by the time they do the round is often over
then they shouldn't be DC

in order to be a good DC u have to be able to sort out in your head whats what and how to do it


Quote:
Originally Posted by General Martok
Or else handpick 1 tester from the top10 or 15 alliances. Not just the one in command who doesn't have much time to test anyways. If that player screws up beta testing (totally inactive, "playing to win" or not obeying any other rules), that alliance looses BETAtest privilege. That will ensure each allaince will appoint an acceptable tester.
i definatly like this idea or more say like 3 to 5 members from each alliance for the stats testing. From that the weaknesses or powerfull ships/races will be known fast. So start all beta people with 50 of each construction/all research done/2500 of each roid and 5mil of each res so from there they can pick and try diffrent ship combos and try out the new stats.
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 17:19   #21
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Re: Mistake in Manual

the more people in a beta to test it, the more egos become inflated and the more they play it " to win the beta" . no testing can be done with people who arent actually testing, but only wanting to win. Those in beta for this round saw it, and it will undoubtedly happen in other betas with similar numbers
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 18:03   #22
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Re: Mistake in Manual

I dont really think it even needs excessive beta testing. Just eliminating perfect kill scenarios would be a good start such as the following Cath vs Xan battle.

Cath - Attacking a 400 roid Xan planet
Roach: 200
Scorpion: 80
Hornet: 40
Total Cost: 9.7mil

Xan - With the only ships they have to kill cruiser & destroyer

Pulsar: 5300
Bomber: 800
Total Cost: 15.9mil

Result: xan looses 25% roids, kills 0 ships.

Even if a xan builds only bomber sacrificing the offensive ability that the pulsar bring, it would take 1200 bomber to deal with the above attack still costing around 14mil to defend a 9.7mil attack. Then the cath sends an additional 100 roach to emp the extra 400 bomber and your back to the perfect win again.

Theres a similar example for the zik cutlass + privateer vs Xan, but in that instance the xan must send away some of their own fleet to not have them kill each other.

Just changing the targeting could help, eg swap the target for beetle & Scorpion. Cath would have to send roach to defend the Hornets, Beetles to defend the Roach, scorpion to defend beetle from vsharrak. But the beetle would then be open to attack from Lancer. Thus the Cath would have to accept some losses for the attack if the Xan is setup to defend Cath attacks.

It would take more thinking about than the 10 mins I have just given it. All races try to send as few ship types as possible into attack, currently Cath and ZIk can do that with little risk apart from their target getting outside help.

Last edited by lladroth; 8 Nov 2004 at 18:17.
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 20:02   #23
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by lladroth
Even if a xan builds only bomber sacrificing the offensive ability that the pulsar bring, it would take 1200 bomber to deal with the above attack still costing around 14mil to defend a 9.7mil attack. Then the cath sends an additional 100 roach to emp the extra 400 bomber and your back to the perfect win again.
First off a xan would not only have bombers they would also have TBT's home most likly and if there FR fleet is home there probly not using there FR pods either. So all of that is eating up some of the roachs fire power. now ofc with this rounds stats to even fleets(res wise) of cath vs xan, cath will win. This has to be one of the first rounds like that though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lladroth
Just changing the targeting could help, eg swap the target for beetle & Scorpion. Cath would have to send roach to defend the Hornets, Beetles to defend the Roach, scorpion to defend beetle from vsharrak. But the beetle would then be open to attack from Lancer. Thus the Cath would have to accept some losses for the attack if the Xan is setup to defend Cath attacks.
this is good in principal but the game was made more of a team style effort. in you throw in ships from another race in there the cath has to deal with many other problems. in addition to the caths do have there weakness too. **cough** DE **cough**

Quote:
Originally Posted by lladroth
It would take more thinking about than the 10 mins I have just given it. All races try to send as few ship types as possible into attack, currently Cath and ZIk can do that with little risk apart from their target getting outside help.
not totally, being a zik i know roiding none cath/zik planets is not free by any means

For taking on a Ter

Rogue to Harpy
Pirate to Hydra
Raider to Roids
Galleon to Strs

hmm don't see anything stoping the gyrphon from firing

Clipper to Gyrphon/Centaur/Chimera

now the the FR r semi stoped so u still have BS losses but also DE losses

i have used this on a few terrans and has worked quite well
Maurauder/Rogue/Pirate/Raider/Galleon
while i did take BS/CR losses, the ammount of FI/FR that died was overwhelming

For taking a Xan

Rogue to Vsh/Pulsar
Pirate to Broadsword
Raider to roids
Galleon to Strs

now the pirate stealling the broadswords could be a stopper to the TBT's but most xans i have seen have very low #'s of them so it doesn't work nearly as well as using CO against a xan as hoping his pulsars r home to subvert. So then u would need to bring in clipper/cutlass/cutter/buc to have a no loss battle and doing so would leave you wide open to a retal. So its not free roiding for the ziks/caths if there targets think smart.
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 20:05   #24
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
the more people in a beta to test it, the more egos become inflated and the more they play it " to win the beta" . no testing can be done with people who arent actually testing, but only wanting to win. Those in beta for this round saw it, and it will undoubtedly happen in other betas with similar numbers

then do limit it to only a few from each alliance, only have like 3 to 5 will allow for the best of each alliance to do what they do best and see what they can come up with, with the newly proposed stats. If not you are only going to have a repeat of what happend last round.

the only time a big beta for everyone would be needed is if PA changes again like it did inbetween r9.5 and r10 or the stats are final and you want to give the rest of the community a chance to play arround with them before the real round begins.
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Unread 8 Nov 2004, 21:25   #25
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
charming. i presume you`re extending it to include those in beta who constantly screamed out that zik was underpowered too?
Indeed it does..

With the stats the races where turned upside down.. As Kileman said. Xan is supposed to survive on their initiative and killing skill and have bad armour. Now they got bad of everything... And in additition they got that -10% in research aswell.

Races should have...

Emp should do good emping, but not so good killing...kill initiative should be before zik but after terran and xan, decent armour, but less then terran and zik.

Zik should have last kill initiative. but good armour and killing.

Xan should have first initiative in killing and good killing. What really screwed up xan is the late initiative on xan fr/de ships and the better initiative of the other 2 dominant races this round. And also they don't target anything usefull.. So they only work as defence ships or flak.

Terran should have overall decent ships.... if u consider all the other races putting their weight in 1 area.. terran should be a overall decent ship in initiative, armour, killing.

Of course all races should have their weakness..
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Unread 9 Nov 2004, 02:31   #26
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Re: Mistake in Manual

I think a very important edition to the beta would be top players from each of the races where included.
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Unread 9 Nov 2004, 02:40   #27
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Storebo
Xan should have first initiative in killing and good killing. What really screwed up xan is the late initiative on xan fr/de ships and the better initiative of the other 2 dominant races this round. And also they don't target anything usefull.. So they only work as defence ships or flak.
i disagree.

if xan's initiative is such that they can kill off the enemy ships before any enemy ships can fire then xan again become too powerful.

i guess the solution is to have the low initiative xan ships shoot at the really late enemy ships, so that the mid range ships at least get to fire in combat, or some such

-mist
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Unread 9 Nov 2004, 02:52   #28
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Beta suggestions:

1. Remove one of the major reasons people play the beta to 'win' and not to test, by not allowing private galaxies with 5 people from a single alliance. It's natural that competitive playing follows from this. Or disable the universe page. Test things like galaxy setup in a different beta.

2. Make some 'dummy' planets, with roids and a random but sensible fleet combination to allow people to better judge the interaction during normal gameplay.

3. Run it at faster speeds so that people don't have to leave after 3 hours and a couple of hundred ticks - before they've managed to actually build up a sizeable fleet involving anything other than FI/CO.
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Unread 9 Nov 2004, 06:23   #29
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
i disagree.

if xan's initiative is such that they can kill off the enemy ships before any enemy ships can fire then xan again become too powerful.

i guess the solution is to have the low initiative xan ships shoot at the really late enemy ships, so that the mid range ships at least get to fire in combat, or some such

-mist
I think the idea is not to have xan kill ships fire before any other race ships.... just fire before the other races kill ships (ie emp/sub occurs generally before xans fire - but zik&cath kill does not fire at the same time or earlier as xan kill). That simple change will help balance the stats tremendously.
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Unread 9 Nov 2004, 06:26   #30
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev
Beta suggestions:

1. Remove one of the major reasons people play the beta to 'win' and not to test, by not allowing private galaxies with 5 people from a single alliance. It's natural that competitive playing follows from this. Or disable the universe page. Test things like galaxy setup in a different beta.

2. Make some 'dummy' planets, with roids and a random but sensible fleet combination to allow people to better judge the interaction during normal gameplay.

3. Run it at faster speeds so that people don't have to leave after 3 hours and a couple of hundred ticks - before they've managed to actually build up a sizeable fleet involving anything other than FI/CO.
Beta has always been silly. You will achieve more running calcs for a few hours on a bcalc, or just staring at the stats and trying to visualise what will happen, rather than by roiding some newbs in the beta....
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Unread 9 Nov 2004, 11:36   #31
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Re: Mistake in Manual

how can you try and blame the random newbs who screamed "Omg lol ziks sux0r, omg wtforlf xand will pwn again yo!1", they just wanted their own races to be empowered thus, they could utterly elite and win beta:D.

heh, these stats are wrong in so many cases, people ie. MiX, me, stifler and therat etc, who tried to actually formulate proper help were ignored for people who knew how to use caps lock (therefore they must be more knowledgable & relevant to the stats!). so don`t even try to blame us, the beta-ers for giving up trying to help, i mean hell, some of us even submitted a rough set of stats:/ and moving to the stance of "HEH, ill just leave you freaking tits to it, and pick the obvious good choice when the times comes".

ps. xands suck, terrans suck, zikos were very good early round and will only be mediocre from mid-round onwards as i had predicted, caths sucked early-round unless you went mass-cr quickly, but now with the quite cutely near-to-impossible to stop de/cr fleet, they are rather cutely good. although this does allow terrans to attack finally.. but then again there are only a very small number of non-newb terrans heh, and this means xands will be short of targets still as caths & ziks are fairly non-sensical to roid with either fi or fr, or atleast it should be anyway, bar retals on caths and ziks with all their rogues & scorps out but that`s quite too much of a "specific" situation.

maybe we should clearly, just stop round for a few days, reduce every single planet`s fleet to "0" and just leave each planet with the resources their fleet value holds, and we can go back to r11 stats and make a few needed tweaks and try and carry on by giving a 72 tick "protection" fr everyone to re-read the stats and spend their resources into a fleet oncemore (!) :rolleyes:
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Unread 9 Nov 2004, 12:50   #32
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kileman
I think the idea is not to have xan kill ships fire before any other race ships.... just fire before the other races kill ships (ie emp/sub occurs generally before xans fire - but zik&cath kill does not fire at the same time or earlier as xan kill). That simple change will help balance the stats tremendously.
still, having the xan's initiative totally before anything can kill them would make them too good, imo. their armour and/or damage would have to be crap to make up for it. you'd then have a situation where either the xan fleet was big enough to naup the enemy before they fire, and therefore the enemy pulls, or the can fleet's not big enough so will take horrific casualties, and the pull. while this may be approaching balanced, it means people will never see a fight and that's quite boring

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Unread 9 Nov 2004, 13:18   #33
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by mist
still, having the xan's initiative totally before anything can kill them would make them too good, imo. their armour and/or damage would have to be crap to make up for it. you'd then have a situation where either the xan fleet was big enough to naup the enemy before they fire, and therefore the enemy pulls, or the can fleet's not big enough so will take horrific casualties, and the pull. while this may be approaching balanced, it means people will never see a fight and that's quite boring

-mist
I assume he meant xan should fire before any other races kill ships. Ships like the rogue, spider and cutter should have a higher init, and TBT/lancer a lower init.
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Unread 9 Nov 2004, 13:28   #34
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Re: Mistake in Manual

hmm

fair point, tho if the stealting ships fire first instead then you have the same problem

each race needs ships spread throughout the initiative spectrum, imo

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Unread 10 Nov 2004, 08:53   #35
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Yes, having Xan fire before Caths/Ziks kill ships is what I meant.

With this it means that Ziks/Caths still have a decent chance at stoping Xans, but it also means they cant kill Xans before xans even have a chance at firing. This would make it a lot easier for xans to roid as it means that if a planet can get past a planets sub/emp limit they can then fire on the ships that would kill them, giving xans a decent shot at getting roids.

Or the alternative is making Ziks pure sub, Caths pure emp, Xans high fire/low armor, Terrans mid armor, mid fire. Similar to ye olden days.
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Unread 10 Nov 2004, 18:25   #36
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Re: Mistake in Manual

i recall stating over and over, following the later stats revisions, that zik were overpowered; but nobody listens to somebody like me. I think they were toned down a tiny bit, but it's so long ago i can hardly recall

I do admit, i complained cathaar were underpowered... i did have some minor suggestions but what tends to happen in betas is that those who shout the loudest, get heared. For a long time, Roaches and Guardians were both kill ships, one with init 5 and one with init 6; i had wanted to make Guardian EMP with init 3 or 4 (counterargument was that TBT could then be EMP'd by bs/cr fleet; but that would be easily remedied by making TBT De again rather than Fr)...

Anyway, i've seen this happen often in betas. Stats start out as reasonable, but not perfect; 'l33t' or just 'loud' types whinge and whinge, admin gets fed up and overcompensates.
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Unread 10 Nov 2004, 18:56   #37
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kileman
With this it means that Ziks/Caths still have a decent chance at stoping Xans, but it also means they cant kill Xans before xans even have a chance at firing. This would make it a lot easier for xans to roid as it means that if a planet can get past a planets sub/emp limit they can then fire on the ships that would kill them, giving xans a decent shot at getting roids.
hmmm as much as thats good, it sounds as if were going back to round 11 where the fr/de of the xan fleet owned almost any non xan planet easy.
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Unread 10 Nov 2004, 20:34   #38
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Re: Mistake in Manual

no? it owned only the terrans....
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Unread 10 Nov 2004, 21:14   #39
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Re: Mistake in Manual

it worked well on most caths and did wonders on ziks who weren''t paying attention
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Unread 10 Nov 2004, 22:45   #40
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Re: Mistake in Manual

...


"hay i owned my attacker because he wasnt paying attention therefore this fleetcombo is uber-elite and totally overpowered lolol!"
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Unread 11 Nov 2004, 00:28   #41
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Just a quick reminder after skipping the last dozend posts. There will always be 1 race which will be worse or the worst or not as good as compared to the best race. Why ? Because its a game and its not about total balance but about freedom of choice.
While they are all supposed to have "a chance" to do well it doesnt mean they all "must do equally" well in the environment.
Having analysed stats in the past noone can effectively predict how a round will develop, it simply is a gamble what the other players choose and which race is "overpowered".
Back in the days we had always emp which was utter crap or the early xans (without the fast pods), after that the ball got passed sometimes to zik, sometimes to terran and like a neverending circle ppl cried and stats where changed.
In the end, Xan dominated a fair few rounds, if it doesnt this round, tough shit, maybe look more at the stats and not just "click xan for the win".
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Unread 11 Nov 2004, 12:13   #42
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorback
Back in the days we had always emp which was utter crap or the early xans (without the fast pods), after that the ball got passed sometimes to zik, sometimes to terran and like a neverending circle ppl cried and stats where changed.
In the end, Xan dominated a fair few rounds, if it doesnt this round, tough shit, maybe look more at the stats and not just "click xan for the win".
Yes, it's good that 'click xan for the win' ended. No, it's not good that it's now 'click cath or zik for the win.'

Though there will always be a tangible difference between the best and the worst race, it's possible to balance it evenly enough that it's worthwhile to play all of them, or at least three of them. This round Terran or Xan are not just bad, they're worthless.
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Unread 11 Nov 2004, 20:04   #43
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Well, i see that terran are the weakest race this round, in the top 50 their are 5 terrans and 6 xans, the problem is when xan attack terran, it is IMPOSSIBLE to stop them, terrans don't have except harpies to fight daggers, xan has LS which can vanguish all the harpies before they do a thing, Btw: Terran is always the last to fight, their intiate is the biggest one which make me regret my choice.
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Unread 12 Nov 2004, 09:05   #44
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Re: Xan's intiative.

You all talk about Xan intiative, what about their fighters and corvettes, what about Terran; the weakest race in the game, Terran's ships' intiative starts from 4-6, if a Terran wants to attack a ZIK., how can he manage the attack: I made this One, If any of you can make it in a better way, plz. start doing that now, and post it here.

If a Cathaar want to attack any race: they just sent some hornets and who's able to stop them, they can focus their production on hornets while other races can't focus their production on anti-cruisers.
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Unread 12 Nov 2004, 10:19   #45
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Re: Mistake in Manual

ship stats are pretty unbalanced indeed.

Xan and Terran are weak.

Why we see so many Zik in top100 ? I think it's partly because Privateer is Co giving them the same bonus as Xan and being even more powerful.
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Unread 13 Nov 2004, 09:19   #46
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Re: Mistake in Manual

Zik and Cath are so much stronger that Terran and Xan in General, but when we come in face to face, you can say that Terran is stronger that Cath because of Drake which pervents Defender ships from doing any harm to Minutours, but the stinky thing is that Cath can beat any race is they were attacking(Cath), cuz of their roiding cruisers, i think another look should be taken on the intiative of all ships.
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