Planetarion Forums

khaos · 28 Sep 2004, 07:59

Xan are getting to be one of the worst races now when the Lyvidian Sentinel has a init of 4, shouldn't they be kept at 3. If they have 4 people we have to buy Dreadnought to defend properly against fighters, which will destroy (what im doing) the fi/co fleet only.

Aswell has the Bolt Thrower being at 5, both Cath and Zik can send in a massive BS fleet and kill everything before the Bolts get to do anything. Lancers can do nothing, they are way to slow.

I mean, Xan did need some tweaking down, but atleast let the Bolt and Sentinel be a 3 and 3 or atleast 3 and 4. What you guys think?

Blixxard · 28 Sep 2004, 08:16

Hehe.
I just love Zikonian battleships. Even if a xan planet has anti-bs it's not going to beable to stand the combination of all 3 zik bs.

khaos · 28 Sep 2004, 08:33

Yeah see, i mean seriously bring Sentinels and Bolts down abit PLEASE. Let Sentinels have there init 3 back and the Bolts can also get 3.

This is a small thing compared to the DE vs Cat problem, if Xan get this, they will have a nice roid fleet against TER which will balance it out abit, (cause TER will get attacked more).

Makhil · 28 Sep 2004, 10:00

the only way to play Xan in r12 is to forget about defending against Cat and Zik, meaning not building anti CR and anti BS. Instead concentrate on building anti terran combo (Pulsars, sents, dagger) + anti FR just in caseand attack big targets. It will work only if many players choose to play terran otherwise Xans are doomed. And to add to their misery, while all the other races have an structure killer the same class as their special pods, Xan must do with a useless FR structure killer (Xan main attack fleet is Fi....).

khaos · 28 Sep 2004, 10:38

Yeah i know, thats why im fighting to get back the sentinel init 4.

mist · 28 Sep 2004, 12:39

you could just play something else?

dunno how scans work now, but in the past cloaked was way overpowered anyway

-mist

khaos · 28 Sep 2004, 14:19

Sweet, they have giving the Sentinel back its number 3, but they changed the Arrowhead to init 4 :S. Will just have to wait until the real round to start to know what the final stats will be.

Phil^ · 28 Sep 2004, 14:22

aye, i altered the init of the wrong ship last night in haste heh

khaos · 28 Sep 2004, 15:44

Oh ok, so will it stay like that?

Tactitus · 28 Sep 2004, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by khaos

Oh ok, so will it stay like that?

All stats are final--until they're changed.

Leshy · 28 Sep 2004, 19:16

I think the biggest lack of the current stats is the fact that the Interceptor is missing

Jester · 28 Sep 2004, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blixxard

Hehe.
I just love Zikonian battleships. Even if a xan planet has anti-bs it's not going to beable to stand the combination of all 3 zik bs.

How does that combo hold up against Terran or Cathaar?

Blacknova · 28 Sep 2004, 19:51

Vs. Cathaar - Widows wtfpwn them (and efficiently too), so any Cath with decent levels of widows render Zik BS utterly impotent.

Vs. Terran - Well, Terran anti BS once again lacks real teeth, so don't expect it en masse :| Send in some CR / Anti BS on top (as the pirates will turn Terran CR into a self shooting match) and if the terran fails to run any dragons he might have then his own ships are gonna have a real bad hair day. Ziks are more likely to find success with FR fleets where Terrans are concerned anyways.

Nova

Blixxard · 29 Sep 2004, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

How does that combo hold up against Terran or Cathaar?

Not well. I avoid them. but xans on the other hand

DunkelGraf · 29 Sep 2004, 14:38

Oh, pooooooooor xans...... now they are going to be NOT the best race next round ?

MAdnRisKy · 29 Sep 2004, 15:47

xan absolutely rape zik early on, in fact so does terran, so where abouts are the big ziks going to come from that the xan will need to worry about?

Almeida · 29 Sep 2004, 16:52

em... why do Xans rape Ziks early in the game?

Chaos · 29 Sep 2004, 23:27

so basicly. most ppl will end up going Cath then?

MAdnRisKy · 30 Sep 2004, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almeida

em... why do Xans rape Ziks early in the game?

because what ships pre BS do zik have that target fi? the cutlass.

and do you see any fi that xan have that target fi? no..

if you look at cat it's a similar problem.

against fi they have the spider, which looks hideously efficient (sarcasm), but as a ship in itself not much use in a roiding fleet, and the round is going to be geared towards attacking... but the spid fires at the same time as the sent, and what do cat have that stops CO? well the beetle... (until cr) but the vsh kill them which fire the same time as the anti fi the spid so it's not like you can stop the vsh killing the beets.. meaning you're loosing spids AND beets to the xan losing vsh only

because since the beet only emps cat lose more than the xan if it's equal in score.

Besides have you seen what xan FR are going to do to the zik BS? that isn't funny at all, esp with the structure killer being FR. a decent xan could build two fi/co fleets and 1 fr fleet, attack with 3 fleets and it'd be a nightmare, because the fleets are multi purpose against several races, what with the GA versus tzens being a 50 50 scrap, but the cat CR taking a beating from the bombers too.

and it wouldn't matter how many clippers the zik had, no xan fr hits fr so it's not a worry..

with xan fi/co you could happily kill both terran and zik (pre BS) and cat if you felt like it.

and the FR would be bloody against cat, mauling to zik and almost doable against terran depending on if they use drakes.

Either way with the value being calced as it is, there's absolutely nothing to stop you hitting folks bigger than yourself, losing ships gaining roids, and your score go up. as long as you constantly attack you'd be fine. there's quite a few folks in the beta doing that nicely (I know it's fast ticks but I've seen a few of the top rankers, having low actual net worth of ships, but huge scores, because they keep attacking the right targets which are bigger than themselves...)

Xan are on paper quite weak, but it's difficult to see how against the other races at least, they're going to be stopped, because they just don't have the right ships for the task.

Gio2k · 30 Sep 2004, 12:32

Xans will pwn again, at least until cr/bs are available, after that, it's only a matter of having the right combination of ppl in the galaxy for cross-defending.

jerome · 30 Sep 2004, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

bEither way with the value being calced as it is, there's absolutely nothing to stop you hitting folks bigger than yourself, losing ships gaining roids, and your score go up.

WOAH. That sounds exactly like last round.

Quote:

there's quite a few folks in the beta doing that nicely (I know it's fast ticks but I've seen a few of the top rankers, having low actual net worth of ships, but huge scores, because they keep attacking the right targets which are bigger than themselves...)

yeah, this has been the case of r11 beta/r12pubbeta1/r12pubbeta2/no-def speedround, it`s a tad more to do with fast ticks than anything else really, in the latter parts of a real round, you won`t see people in the top ranks with **** all value, as basically they won`t be able to stay there without roids - which they will surely loose without ships;). Furthermore, fast ticks are basically just hard not to do well really:), easy roids is always plausible, thus xp, therefore score etc.

MAdnRisKy · 30 Sep 2004, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by _ryzekiel_

WOAH. That sounds exactly like last round.

yeah, this has been the case of r11 beta/r12pubbeta1/r12pubbeta2/no-def speedround, it`s a tad more to do with fast ticks than anything else really, in the latter parts of a real round, you won`t see people in the top ranks with **** all value, as basically they won`t be able to stay there without roids - which they will surely loose without ships

. Furthermore, fast ticks are basically just hard not to do well really

, easy roids is always plausible, thus xp, therefore score etc.

I sense you posted this thinking what you're saying is news to me...

(I;m sure I mentioned fast ticks)

Envious · 1 Oct 2004, 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAdnRisKy

I sense you posted this thinking what you're saying is news to me...

(I;m sure I mentioned fast ticks)

you did but it really doesn't seem you came to the obvious conclusion that it will be very different with 1 hour ticks.

MAdnRisKy · 2 Oct 2004, 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envious

you did but it really doesn't seem you came to the obvious conclusion that it will be very different with 1 hour ticks.

I've been away far too long it seems....

does the expresion "teaching your grandma to suck eggs" mean anything?

*sigh*

that's probably before your time too....

(oh and at one point this thread was about xan, though it's probably my bad for allowing such an easy out tangent for you to find something to pick holes in because I didn't spell out my logic as if I needed to instruct a "new to PA" player, rather I assumed we all had a competant understanding of the rudimentary game mechanics. Silly MAd)

Nology · 2 Oct 2004, 04:25

It would appear someone forgot how powerful Cutlass are. Zik don't need but about 1k Cutlass for the first week probably to stop Xan from attacking. To think your Xan are that 'good' is just plain ignoring the fact that they are indeed a weaker race compared to Zik and Cath.

Doorsdown · 2 Oct 2004, 05:37

let them think that, come battle time they will find out the truth

Hesekiel · 2 Oct 2004, 12:40

oh well, ive always been xan, and i will too. :P

I really don't care what the stats will be after all, i think ill find my way to own the universe anyway.

Zotnam · 2 Oct 2004, 13:34

pa universe will never be mostly zik/cath... decent amount of xan fr and you will be OK against cr/bs and you can do nice attacks with these too..

MAdnRisKy · 2 Oct 2004, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nology

It would appear someone forgot how powerful Cutlass are. Zik don't need but about 1k Cutlass for the first week probably to stop Xan from attacking. To think your Xan are that 'good' is just plain ignoring the fact that they are indeed a weaker race compared to Zik and Cath.

stats have changed since those posts....

so all bets are off

phatjm · 2 Oct 2004, 16:58

I did remember reading that the Subversion special for Ziks was not going to be used as they said they were having too much trouble with it to work the way they wanted it to. So are they going to update that or what is going on about that b/c that will change a few things...

Nology · 2 Oct 2004, 17:05

I've seen the new stats MAd and the Cutlass still has a 1 to 5 advantage over dagger and nearly the same to all other Xan FI. It's a beast of a ship and one that will cause havoc (thankfully) after being useless last round.

MAdnRisKy · 6 Oct 2004, 17:12

Nology, I meant that the stats had changed since I posted, ie between our posts, hence the discrepancies.

I agree, cutlass' just got very very good indeed...