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Unread 24 Mar 2006, 17:19   #1
Yahwe
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Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Right, my easy to follow guide to defamation laws in England and Wales.

There are 2 types: libel (or defamation per se) and slander.

So let's break them down:

1) The test for libel

(NB - This was the cause of action used in the forum suing case)

a) There must be a publication
b) This publication must be of a permanent nature
c) Said publication must cause "hatred, ridicule or contempt" of the person defamed.

If these three are fulfilled then there is a prima facie case.

It is then for the Jury to decide how badly you were defamed (or if you were defamed at all) and grant appropriate damages.

2) The test for slander

a) 'slanderous comments' must be communicated about you
b) These comments must be communicated to a third party (so you can't sue for a private conversation between A and B where A slanders B. But you can if A and B have a conversation where C is slandered)
c) slanderous comments are comments which suggest that the slandered person:
1) is guilty of a criminal offence
2) is unfit in his trade or profession
3) has a communicable disease
or 4) (women only) is 'un-chaste'
d) If the comments don't fit within one of those 4 limbs then you have to show that they caused "hatred, ridicule or contempt" AND that you suffered some special damage because of them.

Special damage is a real harm done to you because of the comments. So for instance if the comments were "he's a compulsive liar" and you didn't get a job because of it. Or the comments were "he sleeps with prostitutes" and you got sacked because of them.


3) Defenses to libel and slander

a) The comments made or published fact is True.

b) The comments made or published fact is Fair Comment. Fair comment is a genuinely held opinion: so if you write "this play is really shit" and you have seen the play then that is fair comment. If you haven't seen the play then it's not fair comment.

c) The comments made or published fact is merely Vulgar Abuse. The vulgar abuse defence would cover things like "you are a spastic". To be vulgar abuse the comment/published words must be improbable. So calling someone a Nazi in an internet forum would be vulgar abuse, unless there was a serious danger that the comments might be taken seriously.

d) Privilege: the person making the comments/publishing the words had a duty to pass on information to someone (the recipient of the comments or the readers of the publication) and they had an interest in recieving them.

4) Problems with suing in defamation

a) Fees. Legal fees by both solicitors and barristers in defamation are exceedingly high. The Claiment has to gather the evidence to prove his case. If you win the case you may be entitled to claim the amount of your fees paid out from the defendant, but cases can take years. If you lose you don't get them back.
(NB Neil Hamilton was nearly bankrupted by the legal fees for his case)

b) Juries. Defamation cases use juries to assess damages and to apply the legal test. Juries are capricious and unpredictable at the best of times.

And basically that's it
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Unread 24 Mar 2006, 17:31   #2
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

thanks

Quote:
c) Said publication must cause "hatred, ridicule or contempt" of the person defamed.
Isn't that an odd test, saying something false is one thing but surely everyone should be allowed to ridicule another individual. If the woman in the case had said 'your wife is the whoriest whore in the whole world of whores' instead of just 'prostitute' would it have been better? ie is hyperbole a defence?
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Unread 24 Mar 2006, 17:40   #3
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

<3
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Unread 24 Mar 2006, 17:53   #4
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
Isn't that an odd test, saying something false is one thing but surely everyone should be allowed to ridicule another individual. If the woman in the case had said 'your wife is the whoriest whore in the whole world of whores' instead of just 'prostitute' would it have been better? ie is hyperbole a defence?
Once liability is established via the test it is then for the defendent to raise the defence of 'vulgar abuse'
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Unread 24 Mar 2006, 18:12   #5
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Okay, so 2 years ago some horrible woman at my work accused me of assaulting her on the bus home from work, as well as accusing me of attacking her with a broom (bizarre) while at work (which she got a friend of hers to caroborate). None of this was true. Plenty of people were on said bus and would have been capable of pissing on her accusations. I lost my job because of this. Would I have been able to sue over this and, if so, how much money am I likely to have been awarded?
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Unread 24 Mar 2006, 18:58   #6
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

you should have put up a vigourous defence of yourself at work and not been a spastic and let them sack you you spastic

(why oh why do ppl let their work piss all over them)
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Unread 24 Mar 2006, 19:04   #7
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

In the US libel is published and slander is spoken.

Libel or slander per se would be false claims about your job. "Yahwe is an incompetent and dishonest barrister" would be per se and particular damages would not have to be shown.

Public figures do not have the same protections that private citizens do. You can call politicians almost any name in the book and almost any scandalous accusation imaginable and it is virtually a lost cause to prosecute (civil). It is possible with public figures from entertainment venues but still very difficult.

Slander or lible must single out an individual or a group. "Everyone on GD is a paedo," slanders the entire group. "Almost everyone on GD is a paedo" slanders no one.

Newspapers and magazines have to be shown to have published the material maliciouly know that it was false or acting with wreckless disregard for the truth in order to be sued successfully.
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Unread 24 Mar 2006, 22:04   #8
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

So what is the standard going rate for damages in a libel and slander case(s)?

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Unread 24 Mar 2006, 22:07   #9
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

In most cases, nominal damages of $1. However, if you can show real economic detriment then you can get considerably more.
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Unread 24 Mar 2006, 22:10   #10
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

law. yawn. yahwe.
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 00:09   #11
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

You might think this goes without saying, but you (your estate) cannot sue for defamation if you are dead.

This is because dead people are thought not to care very much about their reputation.
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 01:31   #12
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

What a slanderous thing to say about dead people!
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 03:33   #13
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
1) The test for libel

(NB - This was the cause of action used in the forum suing case)

a) There must be a publication
b) This publication must be of a permanent nature
c) Said publication must cause "hatred, ridicule or contempt" of the person defamed.

If these three are fulfilled then there is a prima facie case.

It is then for the Jury to decide how badly you were defamed (or if you were defamed at all) and grant appropriate damages.
I have a couple of questions about your description of libel:

a) How do internet sites, forums etc measure up against number 2), considering they can be deleted?
b) Does the phrase "Any publicity is good publicity" have any relevance to libel cases?
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 04:00   #14
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunderbunny
I have a couple of questions about your description of libel:

a) How do internet sites, forums etc measure up against number 2), considering they can be deleted?
b) Does the phrase "Any publicity is good publicity" have any relevance to libel cases?
a) that doesn't seem to matter, because it is a publication.
b) no. it doesn't
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 06:03   #15
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoeN
law. yawn. yahwe.
why is it that i can call you a spastic (which you are) without fear of you suing me?
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 06:08   #16
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
why is it that i can call you a spastic (which you are) without fear of you suing me?
Qualified Privilege.
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 06:13   #17
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
So what is the standard going rate for damages in a libel and slander case(s)?

(uk Yahwe)
(us dda)
there is no standard.

it's jury assessed
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 06:21   #18
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

If I say "jonny has face aids" or "jonny has brain cancer"

why are neither defamation?
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 06:55   #19
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Neither are communicable diseases.

Veritas.

Under Scottish law there is no slander, it's all classed as defamation
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 10:54   #20
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
why is it that i can call you a spastic (which you are) without fear of you suing me?
maybe it is because you realise i don't have time to sue every idiotic bisexual on the interweb.
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 16:59   #21
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
AIDS is no longer communicable?
how wonderfull.
AIDS has never been communicable.

HIV on the other hand ....
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 18:12   #22
Dante Hicks
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantoz
AIDS is no longer communicable?
Face AIDS, not the regular kind.
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 23:19   #23
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Apparent from the women/unchaste bit, this is one instance where I dont think the lexisting aw is stupid,provided youve portrayed it accurately (although I'm still undecided as to whether libel/slander should actually be crimes).
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Unread 25 Mar 2006, 23:28   #24
Yahwe
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Re: Yahwe Explains ... Defamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Apparent from the women/unchaste bit, this is one instance where I dont think the lexisting aw is stupid,provided youve portrayed it accurately (although I'm still undecided as to whether libel/slander should actually be crimes).
they're not crimes :/

the female chastity point was created by statute, it's therefore for parliament to repeal it (eveyone agrees that it ought to be repealed however)
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