Debating Threads

[Mong]

Hi,

After some discussion and due to popular demand, we'll soon be running some organised debates here.

More info regarding PA forum debates

Cheers,

M.

[Snurx]

So, this new subforum will be opened here, then?
Oh, and who decides who debates for what cause, etc? (It might be obvious, but i could not grasp that..)
Anyways, i think its a good idea.

[Mong]

Snurx: I guess we'll start off by using major issues in the news at the moment. But I think it's a good idea if people message the debate mods with ideas

M.

[Leshy]

Excellent!

I'll get to making the debating forum asap
probably will be active for the weekend

i think the first debate should be on whether it will work or not, then we go from there?

[Sub]

"The debate-specific mods are all experienced "real world" debaters - so trust their judgment."

Yeah good luck with that.

[Cochese]

I thought JJ said "no" to a debating forum (in the thread you started some months back)??

[Torz]

wow, it'll turn into another GD with more trolls and more flaming.




FUN FUN FUN.

[Mong]

Originally posted by Torz
wow, it'll turn into another GD with more trolls and more flaming.

Like I said, we're appealing to people's better natures. But if there is abuse, it'll be dealt with.

If the worst comes to the worst then I guess people will have to apply to take part.

I'd hate to see something a lot of people have requested be ruined by idiots.

M.

[Mong]

Originally posted by Sub
"The debate-specific mods are all experienced "real world" debaters - so trust their judgment."

Yeah good luck with that.

Well (afaik?) I'll be one of the mods.

Anyway, people who feel like this shouldn't waste their precious time by even looking at the forum. We can ban you right off if you like?

It's just gonna be a bit of fun anyway!

M.

The idea is sound despite any previous comments i may have ever ever said.

As we are given a day to research the topic before the debate starts, I feel participating in this properly will give me a reason to learn about things I usually would not have bothered with, allowing my to improve my intellect and outlook on society.

I'm not stupid, I just don't know stuff!

[Xillah]

this does sound like it could work quite well as long as trolls are dealt with harshly. I think it could be fun to debate from the view that isnt neccessarily my own

/me hones the googling skills

[Marilyn Manson]

So will it be allowed, and more importantly, will it happen?

I hope so. It sounds jolly. Don't let Nod in tho.

So what's going to happen?

Originally posted by Marilyn Manson
So what's going to happen?

I'm gonna kick your lily white butt \o/

[Deffeh]

Im still sceptical.

Where are all these posters coming from?

Your basically creating a forum for the "best" of what GD has to offer in terms of debate, and debaters. If you havent noticed, we have a severe lack of posters at the moment, a lot of which are trolls, a lot of which are spammers, and a lot of which arent intrested in debate. Nevermind the amount of debaters that arent even intrested in the other side of the story regardless how its put.

I think your basically counting on an influx of posters from Jolt if this round is any use, which isnt really going to help you looking on past experience. Look at how low participation was for Kura's trollstars, which was the same as this, but with a few rougher edges. Not many people entered, the people that made it in, a lot soon lost intrest, of the final 4 only 3 were in anyway "Noticed" to be caring, and the gd public didnt give a **** at all.

To me this just looks like an organised GD with different mods. It splits up GD even more and for this reason i am against it in this form. I was hoping Karm would weave his magic, into somehow being able to start specific stickied "debating" threads, in which 'teams' were decided, and all the rest. Different colour scheme, highlighted, but within GD would have been good.

Dont get me wrong, i will take part in the discussions i find myself with an opinion on, or interested in learning more about. I just think this whole thing might not be as easy as you think it will.

[Belgarath The Sorcerer]

Originally posted by Deffeh
To me this just looks like an organised GD with different mods. It splits up GD even more and for this reason i am against it in this form.

Seldom have I agreed with Deffeh, but on this I have to.

[JonnyBGood]

Let the mods decide who "wins" the debate not the collective mass of posters.

[Matrim]

Let me know if you're ever discussing 'Ethics in the Celebrity and Porn Age'.

I could say a thing or two about that.

Yet I feel somewhat despirited about the whole thing, because when I try to formulate Words In English that go beyond 30 lines I lose grip on reality and start messing up.

I'm bred for short messages.





Matrim

[G_frog]

Can we get a better idea of what is going to be moderated (i.e. deleted) - the abuse, the irrelevant, the superfluous?

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
Let the mods decide who "wins" the debate not the collective mass of posters.

Might be better to have both?

[Gayle29uk]

Originally posted by G_frog
Can we get a better idea of what is going to be moderated (i.e. deleted) - the abuse, the irrelevant, the superfluous?


Might be better to have both?

Or the second debate could be 'This house believes the result of the first debate was unfair' and so on in perpetuity!

[Mong]

Originally posted by Gayle
I'm gonna kick your lily white butt \o/

Hi Kiss.

You're not invited to our party

M.

[JonnyBGood]

I must admit I don't like this whole research thing. It'd remove part of the enjoyment, for me personally that is, that can be derived from a pure battle of wits (in so far as that word can be applied here heh). One could end up with someone posting an 8 page essay they found on google that is impossible to argue with due to the sheer length and verbosity involved in something that superfluous. As much as I hate to sound negative if you're 'recruiting' purely within PA you'll end up with a severe lack of depth and a paucity of alternate opinions. Of course the much vaunted and anticipated influx into Planetarion will change things.....

[Mong]

JBG: That's a good point that I hadn't considered at all.

I did suggest "Only quote the minimum necessary. If possible use a text editor to arrange multiple quotes for posting in one reply", and I guess we should explicitly make this applicable to quoted materials.

I guess I was just trying to run this like a real-world debate, which may not be appropriate.

It would seem logical then to simply run a couple of debates and learn what works?

Ta for your input,

M.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally posted by Gayle
/me hones the googling skills

Happy Birthday, whenever it was.

It's a bad idea.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Of course it's a bad idea, but I don't care because I'm not going to go there.

[Tietäjä]

It might be a bad idea, if poorly done.

On the other hand, it might be a good idea.

Sounds like fun.

[Judge]

Originally posted by Mong
we're appealing to people's better natures.

Are you sure they have one?

[Mong]

Originally posted by Judge
Are you sure they have one?

I hope so

M.

[Bunga]

I also would like to know who these mods are/will be.

I mean for all I know, DavinBrahm and Pavil have extensive real world debating experience...

[Marilyn Manson]

The whole idea sounds very elitist, so I like it.

[Mong]

Originally posted by Captain T'Bolt
... To extend on the issue JBG raised, I believe no linkage should be allowed. In the real debates, all proof/statistics are quoted off ones head, and so as long as they sound feasible they do pass ...

In all the organised debates I've been involved in, preparation has been of vital importance.

I once had to argue "That MDF is a better material for office furniture than pine".

I obviously didn't know anything about it, so spent 30 mins reading about it (I don't recall much so don't ask!)

But regarding linkage, I think what we'll say is: "Don't ask people to view external links in support of your argument".

What people should do is use whatever sources they can to formulate their OWN comments. They only linkage allowed should surely be simply to verify your claims?

I understand the "battle of wits" aspect. However without verifiable sources, people can of course make spurious (and debate-winning) claims. For example;

"I insist that being infected with anthrax is good for you"
"Why?"
"Because official governement reports show nobody dying from anthrax"

(Okay, a bit extreme)

Anyway... I'm glad we've got a healthy debate going on here

M.

[Bunga]

I can agree with that: linking for verification but not actual support. Otherwise people could make anything up...

I'm game

[Mirai]

We can already debate just as well in GD. Why do we need a forum on it's own?

Everything in the debating forum would fit in just as well in GD. I can't see a point.

Furthermore, topics have to be chosen by a mod before they can be discussed? What the hell? If you want to promote discussion, you don't regulate it.

Stupid idea, imo.

[pablissimo]

Originally posted by Mirai
We can already debate just as well in GD. Why do we need a forum on it's own?

Everything in the debating forum would fit in just as well in GD. I can't see a point.

Furthermore, topics have to be chosen by a mod before they can be discussed? What the hell? If you want to promote discussion, you don't regulate it.

Stupid idea, imo.

A debate is significantly different stylistically than general discussions about 'things', the whole structure of it is incompatible with GD unless it's constantly modded, even then it'd need revisions to the current rules.

[Mirai]

A true debate cannot work in a forum setting without vicious modding, which takes away from the entire point of discussion.

[Dante Hicks]

There'd need to be a limit on post length (say x number of characters) and posts (per evening/hour/debate/whatever). Otherwise you just get really tedious people posting every 3 seconds or worse someone just posting a google search of the subject to crush anyone's will to argue.

Im prepared to give it my full co-orperation in an attempt to save a once excellent community!

[pablissimo]

Originally posted by Mirai
A true debate cannot work in a forum setting without vicious modding, which takes away from the entire point of discussion.

You're missing the point. It's a debate not a discussion and vicious modding is why it needs its own forum.

[Mong]

I do think some serious modding will be required tbh, not just to control the inevitable trolling* but to make sure that nobody uses spoiling tactics to negate arguments.

Ideally no modding will be required. I think the only way we'll know is to try it!

Oh and when do ppl prefer the debates? Weekends or weekdays?

M.

* I'd be delighted if ppl would respect the debate and not be idiots, but this is GD after all

[pablissimo]

Originally posted by Mong
I do think some serious modding will be required tbh, not just to control the inevitable trolling* but to make sure that nobody uses spoiling tactics to negate arguments.

Ideally no modding will be required. I think the only way we'll know is to try it!

Oh and when do ppl prefer the debates? Weekends or weekdays?

M.

* I'd be delighted if ppl would respect the debate and not be idiots, but this is GD after all

Run two alongside each other, one for the weekend one for in the week, have the weekday ones be more topical and the weekend ones more involved.

Or something.

[G_frog]

surely one post each, and one chance to reply each, would be more usual?

If all posts wre made through a moderator and submitted at a certain time, it would also be possible to incorporate questions from the floor.

This could even allow the contributors anonymity, which might go some way to alleviating problems (although a lot of people could probably identify posters quite easily).

However, I think the important thing is to just get something going asap, to build interest. I'd certainly debate on any motion i found half-way interesting.

This is an AWESOME idea! Now, no one can accuse a person of getting "trolled" when responding intelligently and eloquently on an inflammatory subject!

If you are taking ideas for debate topics, here's one.

"Arguing with people you don't know on the internet is good for the society at large."

[Mong]

Originally posted by Wî†ne§§ †GñA†
This is an AWESOME idea! ... "Arguing with people you don't know on the internet is good for the society at large."

Cheers I think it's an awesome idea too... so it's down to Karm to make it happen!

That's a good basic idea for a debate btw, I forsee something like that as a topic in the future.

M.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Thread cleansed

[pablissimo]

I hope to God this gets the go-ahead given that abso-fking-lute travesty that is the PA Gallery forum.

Get on it Karm, damn you.

[Mong]

Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Thread cleansed

I hope you didn't delete anything, as there was nothing wrong with any of the posts in this sticky so far...

M.