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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 17:51   #51
Hicks
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Re: The Dole

£44 would barely do the shopping
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 17:56   #52
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Re: The Dole

when i first got back from my abortive attempt at uni i had so many debts that the dole wouldnt have covered it, so i had to swallow my pride and go get a job at mcdonalds while i searched for a proper job, 3 months to get a job and i hated every minute of it.

(that typing test keeps crashing on this comp, will try it when i get home although i know my typing speed is abysmal as i cannot touch type, i have to look at the keyboard, which means that typing what im thinking goes well enough, but copying takes longer.)
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 17:58   #53
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Re: The Dole

I'm sorry to disagree with the general feeling, but I'd never do it. Yes it may be a stupid decision, but I have very strong opinions that benefits should be eradicated/substantially reduced, and it would make me a hypocrit to claim.

Pig is perfectly entitled in his actions, but unless they can find a way to substantially reduce the fraud, then the whole system is just a joke. And yes, I think it should be shameful, especially for someone with a degree, as it is meant to be there as support in times of desperation.

£44 is crap all. But it is also about the same amount contributed in NI by one person earling circa £22k/year. And the same amount of total tax paid by someone working a shit job for £12k/year. So one person's entire NI/tax contribution is effectively devoted to supporting another jobless person. I'd rather see the person who earned that money, using it. Personally I'd rather never pay, and never have an entitlement to claim (even a pension).
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 18:29   #54
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
If someone chooses not to work then I believe they should be allowed not to. It does annoy me as awfully miserly for the state to quibble over £44/week for someone. I'm sure that person will find a way in which he or she could contribute (and paying taxes is not the only way to contribute to a society) and they will certainly be more inclined to contribute if the state has been gracious and caring in their time of need rather than penny pinching and unnecessarily vicious..
This is retarded; there's no reason why people who choose to work should be forced to support those who dont.
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 19:05   #55
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyous
Pig is perfectly entitled in his actions, but unless they can find a way to substantially reduce the fraud, then the whole system is just a joke. And yes, I think it should be shameful, especially for someone with a degree, as it is meant to be there as support in times of desperation.
The persons worked hard for their degree and if they want to to try and find a job related to their degree without having some random low skilled job getting in the way then its their choice. At the point of leaving uni its probally the only real chance you have to be selective as most people havent yet got the kind of commitments that leave you focusing soley on making money to cover all the costs of an 'grown up' life
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 19:12   #56
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Re: The Dole

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Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
Depends what your values are. .
Only in the same vacuous sense that the morality of killing black people depends on what your values are.
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 19:16   #57
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Only in the same vacuous sense that the morality of killing black people depends on what your values are.
Not necessarily.

If I'm supporting an unemployed person for 10 years of their life (for example), and then they decide to train as a doctor/teacher/nurse/policeman and for the next 30 years of their life work hard in that role then I'm prepared to support them for those 10 years.

Same for any job which I regard as contributing to the state.
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 19:22   #58
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Re: The Dole

I'll do my best to ensure we have charities that act to support people training themselves in professions which you deem worthy. However, the key word above was 'force'.
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 19:25   #59
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
I'll do my best to ensure we have charities that act to support people training themselves in professions which you deem worthy. However, the key word above was 'force'.
Well the idea is that they aren't "choosing not to work", they're "trying to find jobs but can't". That's why it's called a Job Seekers Allowance and not The Dole.

Of course there will always be some fraudsters abusing it, but ithere isn't much you can do about that. From what I understand you need to prove each week that you are looking for jobs (with letters of application/rejected etc) so it isn't that easy.
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 19:27   #60
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
This is retarded; there's no reason why people who choose to work should be forced to support those who dont.
Why do those who work deserve a reason for why they are forced to support those who do not?

I see no obvious reason to place those who work above those who do not in terms of choice and opinion.
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 19:47   #61
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
Why do those who work deserve a reason for why they are forced to support those who do not?
I don't know about you but I'm not too optimistic about our society where nobody works
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 19:50   #62
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
The persons worked hard for their degree and if they want to to try and find a job related to their degree without having some random low skilled job getting in the way then its their choice. At the point of leaving uni its probally the only real chance you have to be selective as most people havent yet got the kind of commitments that leave you focusing soley on making money to cover all the costs of an 'grown up' life
No. That person who has 'worked hard' (and most don't. I would know, I'm a student) for their degree, should get a job to bide them over whilst searching for a career. Getting a poor job in the meantime does nothing to harm your prospects for finding a career, and you're in no way tied in to that job.

Job seekers allowance never was, and still isn't, there to provide a break for people inbetween careers or new graduates looking for a career.
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 19:52   #63
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Well the idea is that they aren't "choosing not to work", they're "trying to find jobs but can't". That's why it's called a Job Seekers Allowance and not The Dole.
It's called Job Seekers Allowance because it's got to be politically correct.
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 19:54   #64
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I don't know about you but I'm not too optimistic about our society where nobody works
We have seen a huge increase in the proportion of the population in work in the last 80 years and I have not seen an improvement in society
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 20:02   #65
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
We have seen a huge increase in the proportion of the population in work in the last 80 years and I have not seen an improvement in society
Have you been around for the last 80 years? I would say society is vastly improved since 1979 and other periods of mass unemployment.

Full employment (by which I mean the NAIRU) is an ideal and worthy aim for an economy. You need a bit of unemployment as your workforce needs a bit of flexibility to prevent unnecessary inflation.

If there is no incentive to work, then nobody works, and you end up with a dead country.

[rant]Bloody communist idiot[/rant]
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 20:07   #66
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
We have seen a huge increase in the proportion of the population in work in the last 80 years and I have not seen an improvement in society
Hahahaha, you're kidding right?
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 20:10   #67
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Hahahaha, you're kidding right?
no and I expect you to be brighter than furyous the gimmick account.

try to work out what i meant.

I'll give you a prize when you do.
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 20:11   #68
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
no and I expect you to be brighter than furyous the gimmick account.

try to work out what i meant.

I'll give you a prize when you do.
I don't take prizes from faggots after the last time when I really got ****ed!
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 20:18   #69
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Re: The Dole

The gimmick account? I beg your pardon. I didn't study Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford by being stupid, thank you very much.

So what would constitute 'improvement in society' to you?
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 21:01   #70
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyous
It's called Job Seekers Allowance because it's got to be politically correct.
What is the connection between the name given to the JSA and political correctness?
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 21:12   #71
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
What is the connection between the name given to the JSA and political correctness?
"Dole" rhymes with "coal"

coal is black

black people are unemployed

COME ON DANTE IT ISN'T DIFFICULT
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 21:14   #72
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyous
The gimmick account? I beg your pardon. I didn't study Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford by being stupid, thank you very much.
I used to teach my undergraduates to think before they spoke.
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 22:14   #73
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyirt
People should "sign on" if they are eligible; not just for the £44 per week, but also for housing benefit purposes, free prescriptions, free dental care, deferment in paying back your student loan, and of course (very importantly) National Insurance credits towards your state pension.







PS: Also some local councils give grants to people on benefit for home improvements and energy efficiency.
Will they also come by and wipe your arse for you if you are too tired after a session in the loo?
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 23:11   #74
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
"Dole" rhymes with "coal"

coal is black

black people are unemployed

COME ON DANTE IT ISN'T DIFFICULT
That's right.



Oh wait...
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 23:13   #75
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyous
The gimmick account? I beg your pardon. I didn't study Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford by being stupid, thank you very much.

So what would constitute 'improvement in society' to you?
While I won't attempt to even defend you being labelled a 'gimmick' account, your educational background doesn't stop you from being stupid, so let's look at the post again:

Quote:
Have you been around for the last 80 years? I would say society is vastly improved since 1979 and other periods of mass unemployment.

Full employment (by which I mean the NAIRU) is an ideal and worthy aim for an economy. You need a bit of unemployment as your workforce needs a bit of flexibility to prevent unnecessary inflation.

If there is no incentive to work, then nobody works, and you end up with a dead country.

[rant]Bloody communist idiot[/rant]
What you've dealt with is pure economy. Yahwe talked about an improvement in society. Now while a standard of living is a good thing, it doesn't necessarily improve people. We have parents who are working who are spending too much time doing so and not raising their children. We have people who are becoming increasingly and unnecessarily materialistic - when the working classes pride themselves on wearing gold chains and wearing designer labels instead of bringing up and looking after their children, then there's something very much wrong with society. I am not someone to think that it is good to have a society, however wealthy, that wastes.

As for communist, have you been eating cheese? Where did he mention communism or anything vaguely to do with it, he simply said society hadn't necessarily improved as a result of extra employment.
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Unread 20 Jun 2006, 23:43   #76
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Re: The Dole

Then perhaps a world wide depression would make things ever so much nicer. I know my father used to sit around and remember witfully the 1930's when unemployment wasn't a choice but society was better than it is today.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 00:33   #77
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
While I won't attempt to even defend you being labelled a 'gimmick' account, your educational background doesn't stop you from being stupid, so let's look at the post again:

What you've dealt with is pure economy. Yah we talked about an improvement in society. Now while a standard of living is a good thing, it doesn't necessarily improve people. We have parents who are working who are spending too much time doing so and not raising their children. We have people who are becoming increasingly and unnecessarily materialistic - when the working classes pride themselves on wearing gold chains and wearing designer labels instead of bringing up and looking after their children, then there's something very much wrong with society. I am not someone to think that it is good to have a society, however wealthy, that wastes.

As for communist, have you been eating cheese? Where did he mention communism or anything vaguely to do with it, he simply said society hadn't necessarily improved as a result of extra employment.
He actually said that he hadn't seen an improvement (his remark didn't carry a 'not necessarily' qualification). People spending too much time working instead of doing things they perhaps ought to instead has nothing to do with the employment rate. All that says is that people spend too long at work, or have an inappropriate job. There will always be a more appropriate job for them to pursue, and a path to maximise their personal utility.

Personally I haven't ever seen a good and particularly useful definition of society. My comments regarding measurement of the good of society refer to the sum of every individual's personal utility: which comprises standard of living etc.

The communist remark was rather inappropriate I apologise. It may well be true, however. I brought up my education not because I was trying to brag, just to imply to a certain person that I might have some qualification to remark on this issue, and resent being called stupid. And no, I didn't go to private school, and I'm not rich etc etc.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 07:37   #78
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyous
People spending too much time working instead of doing things they perhaps ought to instead has nothing to do with the employment rate.
what a bizare thing to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyous
Personally I haven't ever seen a good and particularly useful definition of society. My comments regarding measurement of the good of society refer to the sum of every individual's personal utility: which comprises standard of living etc.
"I haven't ever seen a good definition of society so I am going to use and incredibly silly one."

You will be judged solely by what you type on these forums. So far the conclusion is not favourable.

P.S. lokken rocks. no prize for jonny.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 08:44   #79
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Re: The Dole

I work because without it i wouldn't be able to do the things i want to do, the fact that i live with my head just above the water does not escape me. I can't see myself buying a house unless something drastic happens. Ultimately id prefer not to work, its pointless and dull no matter how interesting i try to make it. I work because i have to inorder to live, i place no great emphasis on 'work' itself, infact its bizzare that someone who toils their entire life in a soul breaking routine can be looked upon favourably.

Some in my family love work, the daily routine provides a comfort blanket, i die a little each day at the grindstone. If i wouldn't be hunded down by the banks id run, i go round the world living on £15 a day - id honestly be happier. Forget the millions on the lottery, give me a few hundred K and id be gone.

The retirement age is currently 68, theres no way it will stay that low. At the end of my life id rather not have a cheap gold watch and patronising pat on the back 'well at least you kept the economic cycle going'. If you don't work and you get by, good for you.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 08:52   #80
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
I work because without it i wouldn't be able to do the things i want to do, the fact that i live with my head just above the water does not escape me. I can't see myself buying a house unless something drastic happens. Ultimately id prefer not to work, its pointless and dull no matter how interesting i try to make it. I work because i have to inorder to live, i place no great emphasis on 'work' itself, infact its bizzare that someone who toils their entire life in a soul breaking routine can be looked upon favourably.

Some in my family love work, the daily routine provides a comfort blanket, i die a little each day at the grindstone. If i wouldn't be hunded down by the banks id run, i go round the world living on £15 a day - id honestly be happier. Forget the millions on the lottery, give me a few hundred K and id be gone.
What job do you have, and why arent you making an effort to change it?
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 09:07   #81
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Re: The Dole

im an engineer, a mechanical one, ive actually changed disciplines within that more than once*, but you see it doesn't matter, even if you do design work 80% of your time is wasted, new work doesn't come often and you tread water until something comes along.




*in my last job this almost went against me, my boss was against people who changed jobs too often as it resulted in a high staff turnover, he wanted automatons to do little more than assessment excerces that were so banal and inherently based in a set-method process that 16year olds could have been brought in to do the work. To keep people in the company he made it 'fun' it was david brent type 'fun'. Working hours were 8-5 - no flexitime -with a compulsraily lunch break, you see there was nowhere to go during lunch, so you stayed at your desk, and because you had nothing else to do out of sheer boredom you answered enquiries if they came, i left.

I half fancied going into finance because my friends from school did, id have gone back to uni and tried my luck, but since 2000 the markets have seriously gone down, most finance graduates don't get any jobs. The competition levels are that high that you're begining to need a phd to get into some of the lower trading positions!
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 09:16   #82
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
P.S. lokken rocks. no prize for jonny.
As a quick heads-up just because society still has problems doesn't mean it isn't better than it was eighty years ago.


On a mildly related note any definition of society needs to be all-encompassing and all-catching, so it includes all people and every aspect.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 09:19   #83
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyous
And yes, I think it should be shameful, especially for someone with a degree, as it is meant to be there as support in times of desperation.
I think someone pointed out earlier...maybe Tomkat :highfive: that its called Job Seekers Allowance. The hint is in the name really. If I had no money, was really desperate, hungary etc then I would be on more benefits than JSA. However i'm searching for a job, im entitled to some money and I shall claim it.

I see no shame in it.

Incidentally I applied for a job at Wilkinsons yesterday (they only have 16 hour job but it looks fine and the hours are perfect 6-10 4 days a week, which means that I can do a 9-5 job too! If I find one that is ;/)
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 09:27   #84
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Re: The Dole

Yes being hungary would be awful. I'd much rather be bulgaria. :mrljakiri:
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 09:34   #85
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Re: The Dole

I just noticed i did :highfive: as well ;o, but in all fairness I havent slept yet (as I've been out for a friends birthday) anyway this is a good time to go to sleep.

Bye

xx
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 09:37   #86
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Re: The Dole

This reminds me of the gameshow "I Can't Believe It's Not Magyar" and, to a lesser extent, the spinoff series "It's All Bulgar".
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 10:12   #87
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Will they also come by and wipe your arse for you if you are too tired after a session in the loo?
This is silly. We offer assistance to people who need it. The assistance is not just in the form of single cash payments but a range of things. You can make light of this, but it certainly does not mean that people have everything done for them.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 10:40   #88
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
As a quick heads-up just because society still has problems doesn't mean it isn't better than it was eighty years ago.


On a mildly related note any definition of society needs to be all-encompassing and all-catching, so it includes all people and every aspect.
What people aren't differentiating is that we're talking about more people working (to the extent they are now) not that people working doesn't help at all. I haven't denied that a good economy 'helps' of course it 'helps'. Of course we need people in work, but I do think that working beyond a certain level (especially for parents) or becoming too wealthy/decadent is counterproductive, because it means money becomes overimportant, materialism and waste sets in, when society should be prioritising other things, some of which I've mentioned above. Myself (and presumably Yahwe) believe we have passed this point (and I think it was a very recent and sudden change) and that the quality of people this country is producing is infact, diminishing.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 10:46   #89
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by Furyous
The communist remark was rather inappropriate I apologise. It may well be true, however. I brought up my education not because I was trying to brag, just to imply to a certain person that I might have some qualification to remark on this issue, and resent being called stupid. And no, I didn't go to private school, and I'm not rich etc etc.
No one cares about your wealth/schooling on here.

I just didn't particularly care for you waving your university around to qualify your opinion as if it was some kind of golden ticket to show that you're right..

Write rubbish on the internet, get coated. Simple really.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 10:55   #90
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
What people aren't differentiating is that we're talking about more people working (to the extent they are now) not that people working doesn't help at all. I haven't denied that a good economy 'helps' of course it 'helps'. Of course we need people in work, but I do think that working beyond a certain level (especially for parents) or becoming too wealthy/decadent is counterproductive, because it means money becomes overimportant, materialism and waste sets in, when society should be prioritising other things, some of which I've mentioned above. Myself (and presumably Yahwe) believe we have passed this point.
As yahwe is fond of pointing out only the nouveau rich become really fascinated with the idea of acquiring more and more wealth. Regardless that wasn't yahwe's original point
Quote:
Originally Posted by yahwe
We have seen a huge increase in the proportion of the population in work in the last 80 years and I have not seen an improvement in society
This, a statement that British society has not improved in the last eighty years, is what I was objecting to.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 10:58   #91
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Clearly you're only worth what they deem you you to be.

And clearly I'm currently worthless.
Yes - you are. Because you do not realize that YOU are undervalued by YOURSELF. You´ve lost before you´ve played dude.

Apart from that it might be hard to find work, but you have to jump out of the envelope. Find a company that does something that you happen to know about. Convince these people you know your shit, and that it is simple economics - they will make more money, even after paying your salary - if they employ you. No company can afford wasting money on someone who has nothing to offer. They WILL however PAY THROUGH THE NOSE if they believe you can make them money.

Start selling your brains, not your body, damnit.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 11:06   #92
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Will they also come by and wipe your arse for you if you are too tired after a session in the loo?
No.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 12:02   #93
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
I work because without it i wouldn't be able to do the things i want to do, the fact that i live with my head just above the water does not escape me. I can't see myself buying a house unless something drastic happens. Ultimately id prefer not to work, its pointless and dull no matter how interesting i try to make it. I work because i have to inorder to live, i place no great emphasis on 'work' itself, infact its bizzare that someone who toils their entire life in a soul breaking routine can be looked upon favourably.

Some in my family love work, the daily routine provides a comfort blanket, i die a little each day at the grindstone. If i wouldn't be hunded down by the banks id run, i go round the world living on £15 a day - id honestly be happier. Forget the millions on the lottery, give me a few hundred K and id be gone.

The retirement age is currently 68, theres no way it will stay that low. At the end of my life id rather not have a cheap gold watch and patronising pat on the back 'well at least you kept the economic cycle going'. If you don't work and you get by, good for you.
I completely agree with this bar the last sentence. I choose a job I enjoy rather than one that works me to death but earns me a fortune. Also did the £15 a day round the world thing for a year (most enjoyable!). But I don't support anyone who doesn't work at the expense of those who do (i.e. forever claiming benefits because they can't find a job they want). If you have some other way of getting by without working, then you're very lucky
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 12:07   #94
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyirt
No.
Pyrit, is that a picture of you on your avitar? Are you the lead singer of a band called vega 4? If it is you, you look just like him, btw.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 12:26   #95
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Re: The Dole

Working is usually investing time to make money. Being a shareholder you invest money to make time!
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 12:32   #96
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
This, a statement that British society has not improved in the last eighty years, is what I was objecting to.
Well it depends if you consider poorer people (80 years ago) probably trying to get a job and work themselves out of poverty or willingly try to get some kind of education instead of better off people (today) with a better standard of living choosing to either live off the state and spending their time/money on frivolities or working themselves into oblivion to get as much money as they can disregarding any kind of balance in life as well as the former an 'improvement'.

I think Yahwe is talking about society in the sense of "quality of people" and I think he might (but i'm not sure) be right.

If we're talking about 'society' as a general term, then we're certainly better off but I believe that things have begun to detiororate.

If one views society as broken already, then it is worse automatically than 80 years ago.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 12:38   #97
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Re: The Dole

The current quality of society is the standard of living of its members. And quite frankly you're rather exaggerating the number of people who work themselves into the ground in the pursuit of wealth they don't spend. Just look at basic facts and figures such as life expectancy, infant mortality, food consumption etc if you still don't believe me that today's society is better than that of eighty years ago.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 12:56   #98
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The current quality of society is the standard of living of its members. And quite frankly you're rather exaggerating the number of people who work themselves into the ground in the pursuit of wealth they don't spend. Just look at basic facts and figures such as life expectancy, infant mortality, food consumption etc if you still don't believe me that today's society is better than that of eighty years ago.
Quite right. Lokken, would you care to explain what you mean by the 'quality of people', how you would measure this, and what would represent a decrease in said quality. And how any one person can possibly be qualified to judge the 'quality' of others?
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 13:02   #99
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The current quality of society is the standard of living of its members. And quite frankly you're rather exaggerating the number of people who work themselves into the ground in the pursuit of wealth they don't spend. Just look at basic facts and figures such as life expectancy, infant mortality, food consumption etc if you still don't believe me that today's society is better than that of eighty years ago.
Quote:
If we're talking about 'society' as a general term, then we're certainly better off but I believe that things have begun to detiororate.
This is my position. Because I believe that those facts and figures are a factor but they aren't necessarily the be all and end all of what I term to be the quality of society.

I do not think Yahwe is concerned with facts and figures of 'standard of living', he is concerned with society in terms of the quality of people and their mentality towards living and he might be right.

What you've done is taken your own favoured definition of society and run with it. I don't think it's a bad definition as it goes. But from the definition that I inferred from Yahwe's post, I don't see what's he said as being horrifically wrong.
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Unread 21 Jun 2006, 13:33   #100
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Re: The Dole

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Just look at basic facts and figures such as life expectancy, infant mortality, food consumption etc if you still don't believe me that today's society is better than that of eighty years ago.
I would agree with the above, but I don't think that has much to do with the number of people working. (I'm not saying you were claiming this)

Speaking more generally, I do ocassionally feel resentment at people who don't work (the rentier class as an example) but mainly I'm annoyed at the people who enforce a system where such a situation exists.

Similarly, it seems strange to be angry or resentful against people on unemployment benefits. What's wrong with claiming something which is a legal entitlement? Much more rational to be resentful at the people who (en)force payments of taxes, for instance.
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