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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 10:10   #1
ChubbyChecker
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Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
So, who will you vote for in next week's European elections?

I think I'll be all conscientious this time around and vote for these guys which isn't a wasted vote as this link shows. Although my current member is also part of the European Free Alliance which sounds like some sort of paramilitary group. Never mind ey.

My parents are on holiday so they've nominated me as their proxy which means I get to vote for them. I'm thinking of maybe using their votes to vote for the BNP or somesuch party; just so I can feel superior to their racist views.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 10:19   #2
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Missed the deadline to obtain a postal vote so I won't be voting. (I'm in the "West Midlands" area, which is polling station based, not one of these places that are entirely postal voting)
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 10:19   #3
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
My ****in housemate chucked out my voting form
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 10:22   #4
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
If you want I'll vote for you.

I have 3 votes after all.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 10:29   #5
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
I appear to have two votes which seems awfully improper
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 10:31   #6
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
I shall be voting for candidates who have the most chance of fking up or making life as hard as possible for the current government here in Ireland.

We have local elections here too plus a referendum on the rights to citizenship.

I shall be voting locally for independants due to my utter distain for the modern main political partys here. In the referendum I plan on voting to keep things the way they are i.e. No

I dont like the idea of this government dangleing this issue out of the blue just to distract people from debating european and local elections where they were going to loose out badly.
Plus I hate the idea of wankers in power messing with our constituional right to citizenship. Start denying people rights laid out in our constition and who knows where it'll end up.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 10:38   #7
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
My ****in housemate chucked out my voting form
As long as you mean the little card and not a postal-voting thing it doesn't matter. It'll take a bit longer at the polling station as they'll gave to look you up, but you don't actually need the little card.
I haven't received my postal-vote thing for at home yet (Northwest), but I can vote here (west Midlands) if I feel the need...
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 10:49   #8
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Hey kids, vote lib-dem: we're the only realistic alternative!!
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 11:13   #9
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
I don't think I'm registered.

I would have probably voted for the "Respect Coalition" or whatever they're called. Ken Loach is one of the listed candidates for London I think.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 11:44   #10
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Europe is no democracy...
It tries to make you believe it is...

Just look at the amount of money the Netherlands pays to those fat-heads...
And that while we're such a piss-small country...
I never voted for that!!!

And those ****ing software patents they pushed through behind our backs...
I can't remember voting for that either!

I hope Europe explodes...
And America with it...
Then I'll move to Japan...
And stalk little Japanese school girls all day...
hmmm...
Japanese school girls.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 11:50   #11
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Japan is a hideous pantomime of phedophiles, consumerism and vapid-soulless-cultural osmosis.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 11:53   #12
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Japan is a hideous pantomime of phedophiles, consumerism and vapid-soulless-cultural osmosis.
Yeah! So?
Atleast they don't pretend to be a democracy.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 12:04   #13
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Yeah! So?
Atleast they don't pretend to be a democracy.
Yes they do, and it's an incredibly corrupt government.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 12:05   #14
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Indeed.

If you really want to live in a democracy move to Switzerland. They're about as close as it gets.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 12:07   #15
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Yes they do, and it's an incredibly corrupt government.
Don't mock Japan!!
Atleast the trains come in time there!
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 12:35   #16
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Europe is no democracy...
It tries to make you believe it is...

Just look at the amount of money the Netherlands pays to those fat-heads...
And that while we're such a piss-small country...
I never voted for that!!!

And those ****ing software patents they pushed through behind our backs...
I can't remember voting for that either!
Ah, the wonder of (n+1th hand) representative democracy.

As for myself, I already voted. Unfortunately Finland doesn't allow the use of 'proxies'. If it did, I'd be running around asking people to nominate me theirs. And Japan is seriously overrated.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 12:50   #17
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Europe is no democracy...
It tries to make you believe it is...

Just look at the amount of money the Netherlands pays to those fat-heads...
And that while we're such a piss-small country...
I never voted for that!!!

And those ****ing software patents they pushed through behind our backs...
I can't remember voting for that either!

I hope Europe explodes...
And America with it...
Then I'll move to Japan...
And stalk little Japanese school girls all day...
hmmm...
Japanese school girls.
all of that isnt the parilaments fault. they were against those patents and, as far as i know they have nothing to do with how much you pay to the eu. (but you are right, the netherlands pay quite a lot compared to others, but if you also consider what you get out of it id guess its woth it)
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 14:47   #18
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
[EU anecdote]There was a repeat of that Jeremy Clarkson programme the other night when he travelled round Europe to meet the neighbours. He was in Spain, showing all the new roads and construction projects with "funded by EU" signs outside, and pointed out that the amount of money UK puts into the EU every year is equal to what Spain takes out. When he came to a toll road, and was asked to pay he told them he already had because he was British. (They still made him, though). They then interviewed a Spanish politician who was happy to admit that pretending to be a poor country was all part of the diplomatic process, and that they voted against the expansion of the EU because the money will be going to the new members instead of them).[/EU anecdote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by A2
I'm in the "West Midlands" area, which is polling station based
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYMM
but I can vote here (west Midlands) if I feel the need...
West Midlands High School Polling Stations Rule!
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 14:57   #19
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Europeans eat your kids!



Vote Yes to proposition 1642 "wogs start at calais!"






PS I won't be voting due to being lazy.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 14:58   #20
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
standard 'not voting' strategy
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 14:59   #21
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
standard 'not voting' strategy
I am also Nodrog.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 15:02   #22
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
I won't be voting because I'm voting for some Scottish **** (what with being in Scotland). Plus the first piece of literature to arrive through my door was from the Scottish Conservative Party, which put me right off the idea of voting for any of these clowns anyway.

I'm apparently to vote for them because if I don't they'll shove more pictures of Michael Howard through my door.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 15:10   #23
1-X
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
we get Michael Cashman (the original gay from eastenders)

I got leaflets from the Conservatives and the Pensioners Party (surprisingly not the same party)
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 15:23   #24
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-X
we get Michael Cashman (the original gay from eastenders)
Does it say that on his campaign materials?
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 15:45   #25
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
no, but I think it should

his pic is almost as "fruity" as Flavius' avatar.

http://www.michaelcashmanmep.org.uk/
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 15:48   #26
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Today I'm out
lol

Also what an activist.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 15:57   #27
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
ITT we realise that all those who 'complain' (ie are the least happy with the current state of affairs) are the ones who don't vote.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 15:59   #28
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Voting is a pointless waste of time in most cases and only legitimises their nonsense.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 16:00   #29
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablissimo
I appear to have two votes which seems awfully improper
They can put you in the slammer for voting twice.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 16:32   #30
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
ITT we realise that all those who 'complain' (ie are the least happy with the current state of affairs) are the ones who don't vote.
I dont think its currently possible to vote against democracy.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 16:49   #31
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
im a bit ****ed for the postal vote now i reckon.
As im not in blighty.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 17:14   #32
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew
ITT we realise that all those who 'complain' (ie are the least happy with the current state of affairs) are the ones who don't vote.
Your "ie" is not rationally consistent.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 17:30   #33
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
i cant believe so few of you vote

its depressing.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 17:51   #34
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Sending off my postal vote tomorrow. Took me a while to complete it as the instructions are crap and I wasn't sure which bits I needed to tear and put where.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 17:51   #35
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
I'd vote if I could ffs!!
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 17:54   #36
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Europe is no democracy...
And those ****ing software patents they pushed through behind our backs...
They didn't come through yet actually.

Very close though.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 18:18   #37
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
i cant believe so few of you vote

its depressing.
Why is it depressing?

I find it quite pleasing that not everyone has been suckered into thinking we should participate in elections, or that they really matter in any fundamental sense.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 18:18   #38
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
if i can be bothered to go to my old house just to pick up my voting form then i will vote, otherwise mt apathy will once again get the better of me
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 18:44   #39
Structural Integrity
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Why is it depressing?

I find it quite pleasing that not everyone has been suckered into thinking we should participate in elections, or that they really matter in any fundamental sense.
Communism is the way to go no?
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 18:54   #40
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
I'll vote for whichever party on the ballot paper seems to be the smallest and most pointless.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 19:19   #41
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Why is it depressing?

I find it quite pleasing that not everyone has been suckered into thinking we should participate in elections, or that they really matter in any fundamental sense.
and what EXACTLY do you mean by that?
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 20:44   #42
Dante Hicks
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
and what EXACTLY do you mean by that?
I thought I was pretty clear. Currently elections are a completley facade, and there's very little point particpating in them.

I've campaigned at election time, and probably would again in the future simply because people are marginally more receptive to politics around election time (so they say, I'm dubious about this). But the actual act of voting at the moment only serves (generally) to legitimise an immoral system.

This is not to say that in different political circumstances I'd feel the same way of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Communism is the way to go no?


Of course. But more concretely, if someone came to me and said "I want to make a difference, politically - what should I do?" I'd recommend about twenty different things before I'd advise them to vote.

(elections under a proportional representation system are slightly less pointless, but only marginally)
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 20:47   #43
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
yes, but if no one votes, minority parties etc will seize control. And why that may be not THAT bad a thing, its generally not what people want.

democracy is still good.

i think it was winston churchill (though i personally dont like him) who said democracy is the worst political system, apart from all the other ones.

I personally prefer to not lose faith completely. Even if 99% of the people who vote dont understand the issues. Hopefully the media will at least lead people to have an opinion, and stop apathy taking over entirely.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 20:55   #44
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
yes, but if no one votes, minority parties etc will seize control. And why that may be not THAT bad a thing, its generally not what people want.
Nah. If the amount of people voting dropped below a certain level the political system would probably disintegrate, at least as we understand it. And besides, it's not like these things happen overnight. The BNP aren't suddenly going to seize power without anyone noticing.
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democracy is still good.
I'm not arguing against democracy per se, merely the current state of affairs. The idea of voting to decide "shared affairs" (not sure how to phrase this) seems perfectly sensible.
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I personally prefer to not lose faith completely. Even if 99% of the people who vote dont understand the issues. Hopefully the media will at least lead people to have an opinion, and stop apathy taking over entirely.
Give me apathy over media supported idiocy any day. Have you seen our media? You want these guys "leading people to have an opinion"?

Besides, you're confusing apathy with not voting. Most of the very politically minded people I know don't vote. I have a tremendous faith in the future, just not in the current political system. Faith in the current political system seems rather misplaced.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 21:10   #45
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
if we are to change the system, its not likely to be through revolution, is it, really?

im just wondering what you consider to be a superior system though, if you still support democracy. some kind of PR? A more representative system? more parties?

all of these things are changing atm, but very slowly it seems. Not voting certainly isnt going to help, and voting for the major party which is CLOSEST to your beliefs certainly will.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 21:15   #46
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
A major problem with PR is that it's nearly always against the government of the day's electoral interests to introduce it. No surprise then that Blair shelved the Jenkins report's recommendations on reform of general elections.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 21:27   #47
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
yes, well any government in power would have got in power with first past the post, so there is that problem.

for a government to put use PR in any big way it would have to have a massive majoraty, or its vote spread would be as such so that they would win with PR anyway.

and id vote for them if it was on the manifesto =D
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 21:28   #48
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
if we are to change the system, its not likely to be through revolution, is it, really?
I doubt it's going to come through elections either.

Depends what you categorise as "revolution". If you're talking about people in strange accents seizing the winter palace then probably not. Revolutionary action can broadly be termed anything which is outside "official" channels. So people who are involved in the DIY punk scene are often acting in a revolutionary fashion. In a sense, people who build on-line communities are revolutionary. The open source movement, in a sense, is revolutionary. A revolution is more than people in dodgy berets planning machine gun raids.
Quote:
im just wondering what you consider to be a superior system though, if you still support democracy. some kind of PR? A more representative system? more parties?
I think you're confused here. I support democracy as a principle. So if we have a shared resource (say a publically owned road) then it makes sense that all interested parties have some kind of say in what happens. In a private company (with say, 100 equal shareholders) then a vote on certain decisions makes sense. I don't really see it as a system of government per se.

My current problem with "the system" is larger than any political party. If a political party came along which shared ALL my political beliefs (so they're pro-legalisation of heroin, animal cruelty, etc) then it's not like I believe that if they got into power everything would be fine. It's the overall structure of power which is the problem along with the philosophy which goes along with representative democracy at present.

As they say; "Whomever you vote for, the government wins".

Things like proportional representation etc are shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic to be honest.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 21:51   #49
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Exclamation Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
all of these things are changing atm, but very slowly it seems. Not voting certainly isnt going to help, and voting for the major party which is CLOSEST to your beliefs certainly will.
I think you should to be careful here. Some party will always be closest to your beliefs (however you want to measure it), and if you limit yourself to "major" parties none of them may be very close at all. Major parties often play the mass-appeal game where they start to sacrifice their principles to garner more votes, in the end defining themselves only in terms of opposition to the other party(s).

If you lower your standards to the point where some party can get over the bar then you run the risk of discovering that you don't have any standards at all.
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Unread 3 Jun 2004, 21:53   #50
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Re: Your country needs YOU! (to vote)
well its a question of whether you want principles or power. Its quite difficult to have both

personally, if i prefer one group to have power to another, whether i believe in their position or not. I would vastly prefer the one that was 'closer' to my beiefs. You have to draw the line and be pragmatic some time or youre just going to be a raving revolutionary for the rest of your life.
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