British anti-terrorism strategies

[Nodrog]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004252004,00.html

PUNK rock fan Mike Devine sent an innocent text message containing lyrics by The Clash — and was quizzed as a terror suspect after it was INTERCEPTED.

Computer worker Mike, 35, was confronted by a Special Branch cop at his office and taken for a grilling.

He was stunned to be shown a printout of his text which contained the words “gun” and “jet airliner”.

Mike, who in his spare time plays bass in a Clash tribute group, had sent the lyric from the song Tommy Gun to a bandmate a month earlier.

Mike said: “I was thinking, ‘God, what have I done?’ We went into a room and sat down and he asked me if I knew about Special Branch.

"I said, ‘Yes’ — even though I didn’t really.

“He asked me lots of questions about my phone, such as was this my number and did I use it at the end of April. Then he produced a printout of a text and asked me if I had sent it.

...


Terrorism expert Chris Dobson said: “It is clear from this incident that the computers at the GCHQ listening operation in Cheltenham have been programmed to listen in on all vocal and textual mobile phone traffic.

“They are probably programmed to pick out key words like bomb and hostage.

“Having this kind of surveillance is the price we have to pay in a modern society to protect us from terrorists.”

what the ****?


(lol the sun lol)

[JonnyBGood]

I didn't know all your text messages were intercepted.


:ninja:

[Dante Hicks]

haha. Again punk fans hassled by the man.

I'm sure Snurx knows what I'm talking 'bout!!!

[Nodrog]

I'm sceptical because of the source, but if that's true its absolutely terrifying.

[pablissimo]

I thought we already knew this was going on? What else are GCHQ going to do all day? Doesn't seem overly far-fetched.

[Proteus]

Please excuse me while I text "bomb kill murder president bush airliner white house congress allahu akbar osama bin laden death infidels" to someone. I may not be back for quite a while.

[pablissimo]

We should all do it to each other creating a terror network, and if we all manage to be in the right place we might even get the Americans to bomb Bournemouth which I think we can all agree would be a valuable use of resources.

[evil one]

It was a public secret that American and British secret services (probably others as well) are screening email traffic. This is why people should include the words bomb, Bush, kill, gun, airliner and Allah in all their emails.

[Dante Hicks]

I wouldn't be overly surprised if they intercepted all text messages and ran them through some sort of automated key-words finder.

What doesn't ring true about the story is that the police would act after one text message. I'd imagine they'd dig out the logs of all other calls/text messages/your file/etc before arresting you. Otherwise they'd be wasting a hell of a lot of time.

Of course, the guys previous 50 txt messages might have been "Ahmed, I have the C4 explosives, soon the yankee devils will pay for humiliating our arab brothers!" or similar.

[KaneED]

i want to email someone. or not someone should email me then we can meet irl! in prison

[Nodrog]

At least I've now got a nice concrete thing to link to whenever I notice someone from Britain ever mention the Patriot Act in a derogatory jingoistic sense.

[meglamaniac]

We should have a GD Terrorism League Table, send each other txts that are likely to get flagged on a system like that, then rank people by the number of hours they spend under arrest or incarcerated.
C'mon kids, it'll be

[NEWSBOT3]

this has been going on for years.

apart from which, GCHQ just lets america run the Echelon system here. (iirc, this is because the UK govt. couldnt always spy on its own citizens, so they got the US to do it and pass us the info).
we are one of about 7 or so countries that run it. (new zealand accidentally admitted it existed and they were part of it a few years back)

of course theres no official documents, so quite -what- it does is pure speculation, but the general opinion seems to be scanning all electronic and voice communications for a set list of words.

edit : the system was investigated a few years back by the EU since they had concerns about privacy and they determined that its primary aim was economic (ie, spying on businesses etc), but thats likely to have changed since 2001.

[Weeks]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Please excuse me while I text "bomb kill murder president bush airliner white house congress allahu akbar osama bin laden death infidels" to someone. I may not be back for quite a while.

In regards to the article. Im not really suprised. Unfortunaty.

[Chrism]

Go read up on ECHELON, the spy network operated by the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. It's similar to this. The European Parliament conducted an investigation of it, and their report's on the web somewhere.

[Madina]

Originally Posted by Chrism

Go read up on ECHELON, the spy network operated by the UK, USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. It's similar to this. The European Parliament conducted an investigation of it, and their report's on the web somewhere.

wouldnt mind reading that - i missed a programme on it.

the whole country is on terror alert. i work in a shopping centre and we have all been issued cards to 0800 numbers to report anything suspicious (e.g. bombs)

[Structural Integrity]

Originally Posted by Madina

wouldnt mind reading that - i missed a programme on it.

the whole country is on terror alert. i work in a shopping centre and we have all been issued cards to 0800 numbers to report anything suspicious (e.g. bombs)

Like anyone would NOT report a bomb. You don't quite need a reminder card for that.
"Hey, look, a bomb... oh well... let's just leave it there, someone might just have forgotten it".

Here in the Netherlands people have been reporting "suspicious" things as well, like a few forgotten briefcases.
Thinking that a half decent terrorist would put his bomb out in the open is just insulting towards terrorists.
If I were a terrorist, I'd dump my explosives in a trashcan or something, or somewhere people don't come/look that often as a broom closet or something.
I'd be the biggest badass terrorist your authorities could think of.

[Dante Hicks]

For that reason most large British train stations (in London at least) don't actually have bins anymore.

Although they have those clear plastic bag things sometimes.

[roadrunner_0]

Originally Posted by The Sun (from the bottom of that article)

ARMED cops arrested council worker David Grey, 59, in Lanchester, Co Durham, after he told colleagues at his leaving do: “The chief executive should think himself bloody lucky I’m not the kind of person to use a gun.” He spent 17 hours in a cell before being freed without charge.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA, i work for the same county council as that guy, christ, if i had known that we could have had a field day teehee

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by Structural Integrity

Like anyone would NOT report a bomb. You don't quite need a reminder card for that.

I suspect the point isn't to remind people to report it, but to be sure they report it to the right place.

[wu_trax]

two planes and half of the world turns insane. pretty depressing.

[Nondescript Human]

This happens with calls as well as texts and emails, I believe.

[Apothos]

Four planes, wasnt it?

[wu_trax]

yes, sorry, but still.
if i understood it correctly they almost got them, if only there would have been a better coordination between the different goverment institutions. so why does everyone turn completly paranoid now? there will never be 100% safety.

[Knight Theamion]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

two planes and half of the world turns insane. pretty depressing.

[JammyJim]

Subject: Hello
From: "Hans Morsink" <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, June 3, 2004 6:17 pm
To: [email protected]
Priority: Normal
Options: View Full Header | View Printable Version




I know this is an insecure channel but still I want to know if I have to
proceed with the scheduled bombing?

I have arranged for everything to be delivered in the UK for when I arrive,
I only have to book my plane ticket. The components to make the bomb are
already ordered and un-tracable, I bring a timing device myself.

We will attack these capitalists pigs where it hurts the most. Just like
9/11 we will frighten the population with a fearfull attack, only not now
with suicide planes but with a bomb so we do it again, and again, and again.
And everytime I just leave the country and I will be untraceable.





Theam

******



I want naked pictures of your sister and a contractual agreement stating i can have intimate relations with her or ill forward this to the police.



You have 24hours to comply.

[Structural Integrity]

\o/

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

two planes and half of the world turns insane. pretty depressing.

As I've said elsewhere, I suspect that Al Qaeda (or whomever) had no idea they would be so 'sucessful' in all of this (in terms of both the immediate damage done, and the reaction/response).

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

As I've said elsewhere, I suspect that Al Qaeda (or whomever) had no idea they would be so 'sucessful' in all of this (in terms of both the immediate damage done, and the reaction/response).

I'm not sure al Qaeda would characterize the reaction/response as particularily "successful" given the number of personnel, training camps, bank accounts, etc. that they've lost (all theoretically replaceable, of course, but still a significant setback).

I'm sure Osama's chuckling in a cave somewhere about how the West is seeing terrorists behind every lamppost, but then again, he's the one living in a cave.

[wu_trax]

ok, so
- he got things almost as far as to get this thing turn into a cutural war between the west and the isam
- he has more supporters than ever, thanks to bushs brilliant war on iraq
- he made you spend billions on all those military operations while he can set up his operations almost for free
- this whole 'war on terror'-bullshit causes billions economical damage per year
- it also threatens your superiority in the whole sientific sector, because you dont get all the smart immigrants anymore

but most importantly he made us destroy the freedom of our western world (which he despises so much) all by ourselfs. i dont think he cares if he lives in a cave.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

- it also threatens your superiority in the whole scientific sector, because you dont get all the smart immigrants anymore

I've no idea what you mean by this.

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

I've no idea what you mean by this.

ok, my english sucks, but you are a aware that most überl33t-universities in this world today are located in the us. these universities attract lots of foreign students and scientists who bring in knowledge and money , which makes them even better in the future.
but now with immigration restrictions in gestapo-style fewer of these people come, which will cause problems for those universities on the long term, and after that for the whole economy.

[Tactitus]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

ok, so
- he got things almost as far as to get this thing turn into a cutural war between the west and the isam

There already was a cultural war.

- he has more supporters than ever, thanks to bushs brilliant war on iraq

But now his supporters can't (easily) send him money or sign up for one of his terrorist training camps.

- he made you spend billions on all those military operations while he can set up his operations almost for free

Heh. We would have spent those billions anyway.

- this whole 'war on terror'-bullshit causes billions economical damage per year

What damage? Security-related industries are booming. Government spending has been re-allocated--some business have been hurt but others have benefited.

- it also threatens your superiority in the whole sientific sector, because you dont get all the smart immigrants anymore

Immigration to the US hasn't declined. In the long term, if Islamic fundamentalism increases, I think it will only accelerate the 'brain drain' from those countries.

but most importantly he made us destroy the freedom of our western world (which he despises so much) all by ourselfs. i dont think he cares if he lives in a cave.

Saying that freedom in the West has been destroyed is a bit of an overstatement.

[edit]Addenda: I also think the whole bin Laden-wants-to-destroy-our-Freedoms is a bit of a misdirection (courtesy GWB). I don't think bin Laden gives a rat's ass about our freedoms, one way or the other. I think he cares about our troops being stationed in the mideast, our support for Israel, our support for non-Fundamentalist governments of Islamic countries, and the fact that Western secularism is luring muslims from the shining path of fundamentalist Islam. [/edit]

[Deffeh]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

I'm sceptical because of the source, but if that's true its absolutely terrifying.

Hilarious maybe, but its still only something to fear if your blowing up buildings so who cares ?

Originally Posted by pablissimo

We should all do it to each other creating a terror network, and if we all manage to be in the right place we might even get the Americans to bomb Bournemouth which I think we can all agree would be a valuable use of resources.

I laughed for 5 minutes solid at this

the drugs helped.

Yeah

[Knight Theamion]

i hope JammyJim gets a visit from 'teh FEDS'

[Radical Edward]

I hope so, it means that I must be on their nuclear bomb ignore list by now since my friends and I kill the president always randomly put cyanide in the reservoir terrorist keywords in our emails and sign off with

praise allah

feel free to extract the keywords to get the real message.

[Tomkat]

Big Brother is watching you!

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Deffeh

Hilarious maybe, but its still only something to fear if your blowing up buildings so who cares ?

Your faith in people is amusing.

[IncubusGod]

Bush in coming to Ireland on the 24/25th of June. Specificaly he's coming to Shannon on the 25th. Now Shannon has a large international airport but also several huge industrial estates,all by the airport. Thousands and thousands of people work there. Including ME.

Now we've had visits by the cops demanding details from everyone, name ,address, dob, car type, registration,photo ID etc so they can issue us with passes to allow us to come to work.

This had me fuming, I mean I now have to have special permisson to drive to a town here I work, this isn't quite as bad as the people who LIVE here.
I mean imagine two cops and a secret service agent calling to your door and demanding all your details,movements and regestration just so they can issue you with permisson to live and move in your own town.

All because of this wanker Bush. Now there's no way we will be able to all get into this town within a reasonable time on the two days we are being restricted and its going to cost companies here tens if not hundreds of millions.

Not only that but more and more american agent are present here, asking questions, pissing people off. I became so pissed off one day when stopped at a 'checkpoint' operated by 1 cop and 3 american agents (not sure what agency) on the main road into the town that I demanded to know who they were and why they wanted to stop me.
They told me it was a secuirty issue and to show them some I.D.
I refused until they told me who they were and what right they had to stop me. The cop eventually came over and asked for the I.D. or else he'd arrest me and I'd get 2 penalty points on my drivers licence for not producing a valid Drivers Licenece when requested to do so by a cop.

I gave him my licence and the americans took it off him immedatly, studied it, looked at me, studied it, walked around my car. I'd say I was turning red at this point as I wanted to punch their fking lights out.
Eventaully they handed it to me and told me that "you have permisson to pass"

I muttered "f**k you" and drove off. Expecting to see blue lights in my rear view mirror but wasnt stopped again.

All cause of this wanker Bush. All cause American soldiers are passing though this airport on their way to the gulf and afganistan. No-one wants them here but the government doesnt care.

So now we have to suffer all this shite becuase of some prick with asperations of world domination. It wouldn't supprise me if they are monitoring communciations in this country either.

Facisitc measures all in the interests of security. But who's security. **** the americans.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by wu_trax

ok, my english sucks, but you are a aware that most überl33t-universities in this world today are located in the us. these universities attract lots of foreign students and scientists who bring in knowledge and money , which makes them even better in the future.
but now with immigration restrictions in gestapo-style fewer of these people come, which will cause problems for those universities on the long term, and after that for the whole economy.

'Science' really isn't a competitive industry, in the general sense. Far more likely to drive away scientists are fairly draconian laws about things like stem cell research.

In addition, even if all smart foreigners did stop going to the US, were would they go? The UK? Germany? Those countries are really hostile to the US, and they're never going to share their research.

[Snurx]

Does anybody know if Norway has the same system? (Proof. I know they have it, I just want proof )

It's pretty ****ed up, and it hits a lot of people. For instance, a common slangword in one youth grouo is bombing (To bomb etc), will they be stopped, detained and grilled now?
What will this do with a Muslim sending a arabic SMS discussing the WTC incident?
I don't trust any state for a second. This thing is probably so abused as it can be.

Word up Dante, I sure do. PUNX NOT DEAD !

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

'Science' really isn't a competitive industry, in the general sense..

Huh? Of course it is; the top private universities and technology firms generally do everything they can in order to attract the best talents.

[Deffeh]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Your faith in people is amusing.

I have been accused of many things in my time, but being accused of having faith in people is not something i was prepared for.

Dude.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Deffeh

I have been accused of many things in my time, but being accused of having faith in people is not something i was prepared for.

Aside from having insane levels of faith, how else do you explain your trust in the government?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Huh? Of course it is; the top private universities and technology firms generally do everything they can in order to attract the best talents.

That's by institution, not country.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

That's by institution, not country.

Well 'countries' dont generally compete in most industries, only particular companies do (socialist nations aside). In any case, you could certainly argue that being a centre of scientific excellence as a nation is beneficial.

[Deffeh]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Aside from having insane levels of faith, how else do you explain your trust in the government?

How can i begin? Im not a conservative; dont get me wrong, the social and economic hierarchy blah blah blah doesnt hold any weight with me.

I walk out my door onto a a pavement which is maintained by the government. I go to a government owned jobcentre and look at jobs which legally have to offer me over a certain wage. I walk in a pub that isnt allowed to sell under 18 year olds, so i can enjoy a quiet drink with a friend. I fall over and **** my leg and im taken to an NHS hospital.

Ideally id be travelling by government owned public transport to and from the the jobcentre too.

For me personally, i have no fear, no trepidation about the "nanny state". I do basically, what i want. Although this is the bit you're going to quote, i am free.

[MrPeach]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...et/3773349.stm

A slightly more reliable source maybe.

"Avon and Somerset Police said a Special Branch officer visited Mr Devine after the person who received the message contacted police." - This made me laugh, so they are implying that his band mate reported it to the police? or perhaps he sent it to the wrong number... or then again perhaps we are all being spied on.

[wu_trax]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

'Science' really isn't a competitive industry, in the general sense. Far more likely to drive away scientists are fairly draconian laws about things like stem cell research.

In addition, even if all smart foreigners did stop going to the US, were would they go? The UK? Germany? Those countries are really hostile to the US, and they're never going to share their research.

so all the research that is done in the us right now is shared with us, because we are such close allies?
also, some of those talented students stay in the country to run their own buisness after they finished (take that whole silicon valley stoy for example)
if those high-tech jobs are lost or are never created it certainly damages the economy, especially on the long term.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Deffeh

For me personally, i have no fear, no trepidation about the "nanny state". I do basically, what i want. Although this is the bit you're going to quote, i am free.

I don't think I was very clear. I'm not talking about now. Let's say a local police officer asked for a front door key, and permanent permission to enter your home. Don't worry, he won't come in uninvited, and it's only for your protection in the long run. It's only if you're a child molestor or murderer do you have something to worry about. Wouldn't this worry you a little bit? Even if at this moment at time your freedoms aren't restricted (I highly doubt this btw, since you seem to take soft drugs and use pirated software, but nevermind) there is absolutley no guarantee that this might not change on some politicians whim.

Most of the other things you mentioned are solidaristic things which could be replicated outside a coercive structure anyway. I like the NHS (in terms of the service it provides, not necessarily the compulsory tax system which funds it), but it's not an either/or thing. It's not like you have some kind of safety net AND bizarre surveillance or nothing at all.