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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 01:04   #1
Evergreen
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[UK] TV Licenses

Ok for non-UK peeps a brief Description of what a TV License is over here, over here in the UK if you want to watch any television be it provided from your local cable company or just ITV you have to a pay a TV License fee for owning a TV in your home or TV recieving equipment to the BBC for this priveledge. This is around 120 quid a year, about 200+ us dollars. In Return the BBC provides free terristerialalalalalalala Television with absolutely no commercial advertising on 2 channels which are recievable with bunny ears as you north americans call em, you can also now get a free digital box I believe and recieve even more channels, This also pays for regionally varieted channels with programming more direct to where you live and news. On top of this they also run several radio stations with these funds, none of them really any good since it's all egotistical swines on the radio's in the uk these days(or whiny gratey women).

So it stands in all probability there is a very large chance you will never ever watch anything or listen to anything that this fee you pay provides, yet you are legally obliged too by law or face a ridiculous fine.

Ok with that all explain I will now bring you to an IRC conversation which I felt brought up an interesting issue that I Want discussed with more direction and better quality input :P


<Gremlin> see if i get tv through my pc do i still have to pay for a tv license?
<Eff> If you use or install television receiving equipment to receive or record television programme services you are required by law to have a valid TV Licence
<Gremlin> shit
<Eff> they only charge the person who answers the door, so just dont answer any doors
<Homerio> yeh you do need a tv lisence, however if tv men ever come to your door you dont have to let them in unless they have a search warrant with a police officer
<stupeh> "Knock Knock", "Who's there?", "TV licence man", "I'm not going to open the door, YOU LOSE"
<Homerio> which they cant get unless they have sufficient evidence, ie you letting them inside in the first place
<stupeh> dont they have that device thing that tells em from outside
<Homerio> and tv detector vans are bullshit
<Eff> How our detector vans can catch out licence evaders
<Eff> We can detect a TV in use, in any area. That's because every TV contains a component called the 'local oscillator', which emits a signal when the television is switched on. It's this signal that the equipment on our vans picks up.
<stupeh> ah, k
<Homerio> there has never been a prosecution in the uk with them used as evidence
<Eff> But, what if you live in a block of flats or a house without road access? Well if this is the case our enquiry officer can simply use one of our hand-held scanners. Measuring both direction and strength of signal, they make it easy for us to locate television sets in hard to reach places.
<stupeh> just live in a house surrounded by fields, and do em for trespassing if they come near
<Homerio> yeh but even a computer monitor emits that signal when its turned on tv detection vans are bull
<Eff> when i bought a tv they made me fill in a form with my address, so they can pass it on to the details to the licencing ppl
<Homerio> thats just gay
<Eff> so i guess, just buy second hand tvs
<Homerio> well dont think my parents had to when they bought theres maybe that store gets paid to by the tv people
<Eff> who knows

And with that last line of the log I do want to see who knows.

p.s. Please keep your pedantism to a one post per thread limit, i.e. if you have to correct the tense or the spelling of anything do it once and don't post again IF YOU REALLY MUST. I'm sure no-one else would understand this post otherwise if it wasn't for you English teachers outthere
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 01:08   #2
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

i dont get it :/ :/
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 01:08   #3
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

i dont need to buy a tv licence this year. apparently the wardens dont let the inspectors in.

they are

have to get one next year though. too scared of fines, cos im a big coward.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 01:14   #4
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

just go rape some people
thatll help somehow
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 01:16   #5
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergreen
So it stands in all probability there is a very large chance you will never ever watch anything or listen to anything that this fee you pay provides, yet you are legally obliged too by law or face a ridiculous fine.
Bollocks you won't. I'm sorry, but for someone who watches TV (if you don't use it for TV, and CAN'T use it for TV (as it were) you don't have to pay the license fee) how likely is it that they're not going to watch the Beeb?
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 01:18   #6
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

computer monitors do not emit the same signal as a tv....

the local oscialtor is what is used to generate a signl in order to convert the tv signal into one u can view on a screen....


hence as a computer monitor doens;t convert UHF it does not have have 1
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 01:19   #7
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

TV vans and scanners are just BS, its just fact that you must supply your name and address with a purchase of a telly which is mentioned above. This is how they know you own a TV and will send you a reminder or what not through the post.

Oh, if you buy a TV, then refund it, you'd still get a reminder until you inform the facists that you don't own this TV anymore.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 02:03   #8
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

'Say' that the TV license people have a db of every person in the UK. And they also necessarily have a db of every person who's paid for a license this year. It's not a great leap of logic to suggest they just go door-to-door on those people who haven't got tv licenses in the (probably correct) opinion that they've probably got a TV and are therefore stealing. Or something.

Plus any IRC quote with Effers in ****ing wins. And Homer.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 02:37   #9
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

ah but can they tell if ur using ur computer to watch tv
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 03:14   #10
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathjam|wee
ah but can they tell if ur using ur computer to watch tv
same principal but the local oscillator is in the pci card.

What KalVirtus mentions though is also valid as any device capable of recieving a transmitted signal also emits one of its when whether it be passive or not. This is why its possible to have anti-radar detector detectors.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 03:15   #11
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by meaple
just go rape some people
thatll help somehow
**** off ****smoker.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 03:20   #12
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

arrrgh THE END
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 11:24   #13
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

If you live in a house "as is" then it's probably worth getting one as they'll check your address eventually.
If you live in a house split into flats or student halls or whatever, it's money down the drain because there are so many TVs all over the place they'll never be able to prove if it's you that has one unless you're daft enough to let them in.

Interesting point:
We (in our student house) need to buy one license per room because the rooms have locks on the doors so are treated seperately (according to the TV-L website).
However, we were told when we asked at the agency while signing the contract for the place that we only need bother get one for the whole house. This we did (as there are 8 of us and it worked out as nothing much that way).
So in the very unlikely event there is any trouble, we can just blame them.

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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 12:03   #14
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

I thought the requirement was one licence per seperate electrical supply. So if you have a communal house with shared electricity supply it's only one licence?

Pabs is correct though. The vast majority of their enforcement attempts simply involves writing to everyone who doesn't have a licence and threatening them (irrespective of whether they have a TV or not). You almost have to prove that you don't have a TV.

That "we can detect your tv signals stuff" is probably true but far too man-power intensive to be of any widescale use.

While I disagree with the licence in principle, it's only £10 per month so I just pay for a quiet life (it's only £2.50 per household member for us).

Last edited by Dante Hicks; 29 Feb 2004 at 12:19.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 12:14   #15
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
If you live in a house "as is" then it's probably worth getting one as they'll check your address eventually.
If you live in a house split into flats or student halls or whatever, it's money down the drain because there are so many TVs all over the place they'll never be able to prove if it's you that has one unless you're daft enough to let them in.

Interesting point:
We (in our student house) need to buy one license per room because the rooms have locks on the doors so are treated seperately (according to the TV-L website).
However, we were told when we asked at the agency while signing the contract for the place that we only need bother get one for the whole house. This we did (as there are 8 of us and it worked out as nothing much that way).
So in the very unlikely event there is any trouble, we can just blame them.

It all depends on whether you have a joint contract for the lease, or individual contracts.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 12:31   #16
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by meglamaniac
Interesting point:
We (in our student house) need to buy one license per room because the rooms have locks on the doors so are treated seperately (according to the TV-L website).
However, we were told when we asked at the agency while signing the contract for the place that we only need bother get one for the whole house. This we did (as there are 8 of us and it worked out as nothing much that way).
The "one license per room" thing only applies if your contract names a specific room, rather than just a general address.

The license fee does provide good value for money, especially if you have a digital box, if only because there's not an advert break every couple of minutes like on ITV and Sky and you can get the news without having to sit through commercials at the start and the end of it. "Central Weather - sponsored by Staybrite Windows - keep the cold winds out if we fit them properly" type of thing. Also every so often they do come up with a damn good piece of original programming whereas ITV, which is what the BBC would be without the license fee as funding, contents itself with showing drunk people in Ibiza.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 12:33   #17
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

The licence fee is indeed good value for money (for a lot of people, I tend to download stuff to watch), but that's kind of irrelevent since we're all coerced into paying it.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 12:54   #18
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

If you live in a house with a TV supplied, the landlord is required to pay the TV License, or so it is said.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 15:15   #19
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

so like is the BBC the only free to air TV station in the UK or what?

cause what happens if you watch a totally different channel instead and never touch BBC?
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 15:21   #20
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPeach
It all depends on whether you have a joint contract for the lease, or individual contracts.
We have individual contracts for this property, but the TV license people said that if one of us was to get a license for his or her room then that license would extend to any communal areas in the property also (read: the lounge) though not as far as allowing other flatmates to have tv's in their rooms.

Though to make things easier I didn't bother specifying which room I was in, just gave them the address. Let them sort it out.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 15:21   #21
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
so like is the BBC the only free to air TV station in the UK or what?

cause what happens if you watch a totally different channel instead and never touch BBC?
There are 5 channels which you can get with an aerial. The Beeb makes 2 of them, the rest are commercial (ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5).

If you watch TV, you pay the TV License.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 15:21   #22
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

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Originally Posted by djbass
so like is the BBC the only free to air TV station in the UK or what?

cause what happens if you watch a totally different channel instead and never touch BBC?
you pay £££
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 15:29   #23
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

I dont think anyone has a tele and doesnt watch ANYTHING on the beeb.
I'd sooner it stayed - I dont mind payin to avoid adverts every 5 minutes!
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 15:36   #24
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

For a station that doesn't involve Ron 'The Big-Mouthed Fat Twat' Atkinson on their sports coverage I'd pay twice as much as I do now. Also I assume the license fee goes towards funding BBC Radio too? Radio Two is surely worth £120 a year.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 15:45   #25
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Fortunately, the premiership highlights are back on BBC from next year
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 15:47   #26
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

No, for me it'll be Sportscene. Because Scotland is ****ing shit.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 16:49   #27
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

so if you disagree with the licence in principal dante... do you believe the bbc should become commercial?
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 17:04   #28
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
so if you disagree with the licence in principal dante... do you believe the bbc should become commercial?
I'm not really sure what you mean by "commercial". They are commercial - they are a company which works like any other - only difference is that their income is quasi-guaranteed by the state.

My opinion is that the licence fee is unfair. It's a flat rate tax on anyone who owns a television (which is most people, especially families). Aside from pensioners, everyone pays the same, irrespective of their ability to pay (thus making it regressive). The fact it is compulsary means that it's not just unfair, it's absolutley indefensible.

How the BBC would fund themselves if the licence fee was abolished is of course up to them. They might have to introduce ad breaks, cut back certain services, or move to a subscription model. As I understand it, HBO in the United States doesn't have ad-breaks in their programmes, so there is a market for ad-free TV (also Sky Movies ofc). If their programming is of such a high quality they should be able to get people to pay for it.

How about a model where their TV stations are essentially free-to-view, with DVD/Video sales making up most of their revenue? Or, in the future, having episodes (of Eastenders say) available to download from their site for 50p an episode or something. Or you could order a DVD with custom episodes (of whichever shows from their archives) for a tenner. There are numerous options - I'm not really interested which they'd choose. I don't watch the BBC much anymore (although I did when growing up).

The whole broadcast/content distribution model (for everyone, not just the BBC) seems to be on highly shakey grounds anyway. The advert-supported model is bound to crash sooner or later (probably when everyone realises TV ads don't work very well, there's better more direct advertising methods, and that advances in technology will make skipping them easier and easier). I'm not particularly bothered either way. Dinosaurs will die and all that.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 17:16   #29
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Sky Movies

1. Isn't ad free

2. Is subscription based.

Furthermore, most of the stuff the BBC is good for (decent programming) isn't usually that which gets high ratings, and you get more money from advertisers if you get higher ratings.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 17:17   #30
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
1. Isn't ad free

2. Is subscription based.
It's ad free during the movies which is what most viewers are generally concerned about (I'd imagine). I don't care about ads after the movie as I'm not watching it then...

I know it's subscription based - that was my point (as is HBO).

edit : As for your other point, if it's "good" either a fair number of people will watch it, or they should be willing to pay for it (without everyone else who didn't watch it being forced to pay). The BBC being a public service is an odd enough concept as it is, without introducing the notion that the majority should be subsidising minority/elite tastes.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 17:21   #31
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
It's ad free during the movies which is what most viewers are generally concerned about (I'd imagine). I don't care about ads after the movie as I'm not watching it then.
This is of course counteracted by, say, Sky 1 where there are ad breaks every 30 seconds. You have to count the WHOLE SKY FAMILY as the business model, or none duder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I know it's subscription based - that was my point (as is HBO).
As is... the BBC (involuntary, yes, but then it's still some three or four times cheaper than Sky, for instance)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
without introducing the notion that the majority should be subsidising minority/elite tastes.
I thought that WAS the point
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 17:21   #32
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

The BBC is shit, and if it were good they wouldnt have to force people to pay for it.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 17:24   #33
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

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Originally Posted by Nodrog
The BBC is shit, and if it were good they wouldnt have to force people to pay for it.
You can do better than this
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 17:25   #34
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
I'm not really sure what you mean by "commercial". They are commercial - they are a company which works like any other - only difference is that their income is quasi-guaranteed by the state.

My opinion is that the licence fee is unfair. It's a flat rate tax on anyone who owns a television (which is most people, especially families). Aside from pensioners, everyone pays the same, irrespective of their ability to pay (thus making it regressive). The fact it is compulsary means that it's not just unfair, it's absolutley indefensible.
.
Please tell me you wouldnt be more sympathetic towards the BBC if the rich had to pay more than the poor in order to own a television.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 17:26   #35
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
You can do better than this
Not really, its the whole underlying point of the entire charade. You cannot construct a rational argument upon the premises "Hey the service is so good we have to force everyone to pay for it!"
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 17:28   #36
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Not really, its the whole underlying point of the entire charade. You cannot construct a rational argument upon the premises "Hey the service is so good we have to force everyone to pay for it!"
....that's not the premise though.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 17:28   #37
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
This is of course counteracted by, say, Sky 1 where there are ad breaks every 30 seconds.
Yeah, Sky 1 is shit. But people pay for it. Aside from the Simpsons I find it impossible to watch anything on it anyway (the ad breaks make it unwatchable). No-one is forcing you to subscribe though.

The BBC's relative cheapness (or quality for that matter) is completley irrelevent. It's the voluntary aspect which is what's bothering me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Please tell me you wouldnt be more sympathetic towards the BBC if the rich had to pay more than the poor in order to own a television.
I'd still oppose the licence fee obviously, but it'd mildly better in an abstract sense.

It'd be like a burgular who stole proportionally more from the rich than he did from the poor (but still robbed everyone). He'd be mildly "better" than a thief who stole from everyone equally. Of course, they're both criminals so it's kinda moot.

My point was that even if we can ignore the loss-of-freedom aspects of the licence fee (which I can't, but some can seemingly) it's bad in other ways too.
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 21:19   #38
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

As for the whole fill in a form when you buy a TV bussiness.
It's not the fault of the stores that sell the TV's, it's a requirement enforced on them by the TV Licensing Authority. For every TV, VCR, Set Top Box they sell, they have to ensure the customer fills a form out otherwise the nasty people come after them with big fat fines
As happened to Woolies last year i think.

for us
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 21:23   #39
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Not VCRs
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Unread 29 Feb 2004, 21:26   #40
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

If you ignore the rude letters they send you, they get ruder and ruder until eventually their computer doesn't know what to do and sends you the first one again, restarting the cycle.
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Unread 1 Mar 2004, 03:09   #41
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

We got the same system in Norway.
My grandfather had something like 8 TV's on him once..
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Unread 1 Mar 2004, 03:26   #42
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

guess if you`re paranoid you can coat your room in 3 metres of lead, that ought to block out any signal going in and out, tho it means the reception will be nonexistant for your telly
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Unread 1 Mar 2004, 03:42   #43
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamMak
As for the whole fill in a form when you buy a TV bussiness.
It's not the fault of the stores that sell the TV's, it's a requirement enforced on them by the TV Licensing Authority. For every TV, VCR, Set Top Box they sell, they have to ensure the customer fills a form out otherwise the nasty people come after them with big fat fines
As happened to Woolies last year i think.

for us
hmm odd
i bought myself a replacement telly a year or two back from index and they never asked me to fill out any form or asked for my details O_o aside from the numbery thing ofc but thats a different thing entirely
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Unread 1 Mar 2004, 03:50   #44
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbass
so like is the BBC the only free to air TV station in the UK or what?

cause what happens if you watch a totally different channel instead and never touch BBC?
I think there was one case of someone succesfully arguing this, a long time ago. From what I was told I gather the licensing rules were change immediately to stop it happening again.
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Unread 1 Mar 2004, 05:05   #45
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Well from experience the ad-supported model does work as we have been running that way in Australia for several centuries now.

On very rare occasions you might get crap programming (though really this is a matter of oppinion, due to the high content of sport you guys seem to recieve on TV I'd be inclined to call that crap programming ). Generally though it's always got something worth watching between the many channels available.
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Unread 1 Mar 2004, 12:15   #46
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
i dont need to buy a tv licence this year. apparently the wardens dont let the inspectors in.

they are
Our wardens tell us when they're coming, but they do let them in, so its a case of everybody hiding them.
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Unread 1 Mar 2004, 13:33   #47
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
My opinion is that the licence fee is unfair. It's a flat rate tax on anyone who owns a television (which is most people, especially families). Aside from pensioners, everyone pays the same, irrespective of their ability to pay (thus making it regressive). The fact it is compulsary means that it's not just unfair, it's absolutley indefensible.
HOW is TV compulsory?
You choose whether you want to watch TV, if you do - you pay the TV license.
If you can't afford it - DON'T BUY A TV.

It is a good thing that the BBC don't have to answer to businesses. Imagine if a big company was investigated by BBC journalists, would that company advertise with the BBC? Look what happened in that newspaper last year! (I forget which one).
The BBC is a highly respected organisation around the world, it should only have the general publics interests at heart - IE the people who pay for it.

The only alternative to the license is a subscription fee.
Which is basically a license fee anyway and will almost definately be brought in in a few years time when the analogue transmission is switched off.
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Unread 1 Mar 2004, 13:36   #48
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

I don't like the switching off of the analogue transmission, it means that you can't watch one thing and record something else.
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Unread 1 Mar 2004, 13:48   #49
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

get two decoders...
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Unread 1 Mar 2004, 13:50   #50
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Re: [UK] TV Licenses

This is the current subject of discussion on BBC Radio 2 right now btw.
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