Britain descends further into totalitarianism, millions remain unshocked

[Deciduous]

OK, serious point now my fellow boardchums.

I'm very much for freedom of movement, full employment, protection of privacy and generally retaining my liberty.
Is getting to the 'source' of the problem really to do with educating people?
How many people out there are ill-educated but still leading sociable, productive lives?
You can't tell me that no criminals are educated. For a lot of them it is not a matter of education, it is a matter of getting what they want in the easiest way possible. What good is a £300 a week job to someone who would much rather work 1 day in 5 and earn £1000 for it?
Education might get rid of a lot of borderline criminals who do it because they are unemployable, but that doesn't address those people who do it because they want to do. There aren't many legal openings to earn a six figure salary using only the talents you were born with.

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Deciduous

There aren't many legal openings to earn a six figure salary using only the talents you were born with.

I don't really get the point of this. Yes, there will probably always be "crime" on some level or another.

If you're asking whether I support meaningful action against career criminals who inflict misery on others then sure.

I just don't see how petty blanket laws against teenagers (or banning people from leaving their homes without good cause) will stop these six-figure salary criminals.

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Deciduous

OK, serious point now my fellow boardchums.

I'm very much for freedom of movement, full employment, protection of privacy and generally retaining my liberty.
Is getting to the 'source' of the problem really to do with educating people?
How many people out there are ill-educated but still leading sociable, productive lives?
You can't tell me that no criminals are educated. For a lot of them it is not a matter of education, it is a matter of getting what they want in the easiest way possible. What good is a £300 a week job to someone who would much rather work 1 day in 5 and earn £1000 for it?
Education might get rid of a lot of borderline criminals who do it because they are unemployable, but that doesn't address those people who do it because they want to do. There aren't many legal openings to earn a six figure salary using only the talents you were born with.

I don't think anyone is saying that 'IF THEY WENT TO UNIVERSITY, THERE WOULD BE NO CRIME!!!', just that the socioeconomic factors would be less in place if there was employment available for all.

Come to think of it, I can't remember anyone talking about employment (except MM's ramble about prostitution); the discussion was more that problems would be lessened if there was a means of entertainment available to them out of their houses.

I believe something similar was set up in germany, but my memory could be lying to me.

[Deciduous]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

the discussion was more that problems would be lessened if there was a means of entertainment available to them out of their houses.

I believe something similar was set up in germany, but my memory could be lying to me.

Do you need the state to fund your entertainment just to stop you from smashing things up?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Deciduous

Do you need the state to fund your entertainment just to stop you from smashing things up?

I don't, no.

However, given that the state is generally responsible for the breaking up of communities, and the formation of 'estates' (as it were), and that they're only fostoring hatred for authority by these pieces of legislation, it might be much more effective in the long and short term to do things like I mentioned.

[Deciduous]

So creating cheap housing directly makes people anti social?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Deciduous

So creating cheap housing directly makes people anti social?

I've had enough strawmanning today duder.

[Deciduous]

So what exactly is it that you suggest?
The government should pander to the antisocial?

[Zar]

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

continue to support the "Beating up Teenage Oiks Act 2005" or it's equivalent.

ha - someone else uses the word "oik" also

btw - my friend thanks you for your help on the house rent problem. I think ive got it into him that he was being a bit of a dick, so is working on a fair compromise

Zar

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Come to think of it, I can't remember anyone talking about employment (except MM's ramble about prostitution); the discussion was more that problems would be lessened if there was a means of entertainment available to them out of their houses.

I believe something similar was set up in germany, but my memory could be lying to me.

Youre claiming that the government should start using housing estates as the venues for the public execution of jews and homosexuals?

[MrL_JaKiri]

Originally Posted by Nodrog

Youre claiming that the government should start using housing estates as the venues for the public execution of jews and homosexuals?

No, housing estates are too inaccessable.

[Evergreen]

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Come to think of it, I can't remember anyone talking about employment (except MM's ramble about prostitution); the discussion was more that problems would be lessened if there was a means of entertainment available to them out of their houses.

I believe something similar was set up in germany, but my memory could be lying to me.

Post 33(or 34).

Employment was brought into the argument.

[Deciduous]

I notice nod doesnt require any figures regarding education of criminals or their housing conditions.
In this thread he agrees with you despite the fact your argument is based on 'I saw an article once about some germans'

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Deciduous

I notice nod doesnt require any figures regarding education of criminals or their housing conditions.
In this thread he agrees with you despite the fact your argument is based on 'I saw an article once about some germans'

Or maybe some people value individual freedom irrespective of marginal affects on crime.

This law may have some sort of impact on crime (although I doubt it, it's not actually FOR combatting crime, it's for combatting anti-social behaviour), but the costs in terms of individual rights are too high for my liking.

[Nodrog]

Originally Posted by Deciduous

I notice nod doesnt require any figures regarding education of criminals or their housing conditions.
In this thread he agrees with you despite the fact your argument is based on 'I saw an article once about some germans'

What? Where have I agreed with anyone in this thread? I posted the original article and then a flippant comment about german jew ovens in response to Jakiri's "I'm fed up dealing with strawmen today".

[Deciduous]

Maybe if more people chose not to smash up public and private property, harass people in the street, mug people and anything else I've missed then maybe there would be no need to stop them choosing where they congregate.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Deciduous

Maybe if more people chose not to smash up public and private property, harass people in the street, mug people and anything else I've missed then maybe there would be no need to stop them choosing where they congregate.

Yesterday of my own free will I installed a camera in my home and gave the government access to the feed. I think it's a good idea. Only criminals have anything to worry about

[Deciduous]

I couldnt give a toss if people loiter in their own homes

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Deciduous

I couldnt give a toss if people loiter in their own homes

I hear loitering is the only bad activity in the history of the world ever. Just think about that case with the German cannibal. If there'd been cameras in his home that would never have happened would it?

[Deciduous]

So you make no distinction between doing something in your own home and doing it in public?

[Leshy]

You're more likely to do illegal stuff in your own home than in public!

[Marilyn Manson]

Originally Posted by Deciduous

The first labour exchange was founded by a charitable organisation to help the needy into work,

Actually it was founded by a Victorian capitalist with an eye for Social Reform, AFAIK.

Originally Posted by Deciduous

not to keep the working class out of 'better' jobs.

Tbh I honeslty don't think you're intelligent enough to grasp the concept of sarcasm when it's actually employed, and in any case you've obviously completely missed the point of what I wrote even if you take it as serious piece of writing. (Which it isn't.)

Originally Posted by Deciduous

If you're going to use big, clever words, grab a dictionary.

How is anything that I wrote there not logically sound and comprehensible?

Just because you're too dim to understand it, there's no need to take your frustrations out on me.

[Deciduous]

It might have been comprehensible but the spelling is fking atrocious

[edit]
"Much has resulted from the efforts of The Salvation Army, particularly in the early days, to provide employment, the country's first "Labour Exchange" or "Job Shop" before the government of the day housing, feeding, and generally to bring about the betterment of the poor. The Salvation Army's greatest contribution to the world's advancement has surely been its insistence upon the principle that the salvation of the soul is the key to the salvation of the body."

I've given up trusting what people write now, as I've found three different accounts of the first labour exchange between 1880 and 1910.

[Marilyn Manson]

Depends whether you're talking about 'modern' Labour exchanges or not.

http://74.1911encyclopedia.org/L/LA/LABOUR_EXCHANGE.htm

[Snurx]

I hope this makes it so that there are more riots, more "mindless" vandalizm, more squatting and such anti-social behavior. It would be boring if it all went down the drug-pipe.

[Shr00m]

who decides what is anti-social? Alot of stuff could easily be crammed into that category.

[Evergreen]

I'm glad Ade has found someone else to argue with than me.

MM hope you enjoy your new toy.

He's my fault

[Dante Hicks]

Originally Posted by Shr00m

who decides what is anti-social? Alot of stuff could easily be crammed into that category.

A lot of stuff is crammed into the category.

From experience it can include : noise, vandalism, "immoral activities", causing a general nuisance, dealing / taking drugs, low level harassment and actual physical assaults.

The IRA have ocassionally shot people in the knee's for "anti-social behaviour". One presumes they'll be on the consultation group for the next White Paper.

[Chrism]

Originally Posted by Deciduous

I draw the line at pasting that 1913 character chemical

You mean methionylglutaminylarginyltyrosylglutamylserylleucylphenylalanylalanylglutaminylleucyllysylglutamyla rginyllysylglutamylglycylalanylphenylalanylvalylprolylphenylalanylvalylthreonylleucylglycylaspartylp rolylglycylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylserylleucyllysylisoleucylaspartylthreonylleucylisoleucylglutam ylalanylglycylalanylaspartylalanylleucylglutamylleucylglycylisoleucylprolylphenylalanylserylaspartyl prolylleucylalanylaspartylglycylprolylthreonylisoleucylglutaminylasparaginylalanylthreonylleucylargi nylalanylphenylalanylalanylalanylglycylvalylthreonylprolylalanylglutaminylcysteinylphenylalanylgluta mylmethionylleucylalanylleucylisoleucylarginylglutaminyllysylhistidylprolylthreonylisoleucylprolylis oleucylglycylleucylleucylmethionyltyrosylalanylasparaginylleucylvalylphenylalanylasparaginyllysylgly cylisoleucylaspartylglutamylphenylalanyltyrosylalanylglutaminylcysteinylglutamyllysylvalylglycylvaly laspartylserylvalylleucylvalylalanylaspartylvalylprolylvalylglutaminylglutamylserylalanylprolylpheny lalanylarginylglutaminylalanylalanylleucylarginylhistidylasparaginylvalylalanylprolylisoleucylphenyl alanylisoleucylcysteinylprolylprolylaspartylalanylaspartylaspartylaspartylleucylleucylarginylglutami nylisoleucylalanylseryltyrosylglycylarginylglycyltyrosylthreonyltyrosylleucylleucylserylarginylalany lglycylvalylthreonylglycylalanylglutamylasparaginylarginylalanylalanylleucylprolylleucylasparaginylh istidylleucylvalylalanyllysylleucyllysylglutamyltyrosylasparaginylalanylalanylprolylprolylleucylglut aminylglycylphenylalanylglycylisoleucylserylalanylprolylaspartylglutaminylvalyllysylalanylalanylisol eucylaspartylalanylglycylalanylalanylglycylalanylisoleucylserylglycylserylalanylisoleucylvalyllysyli soleucylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylhistidylasparaginylisoleucylglutamylprolylglutamyllysylmethionyll eucylalanylalanylleucyllysylvalylphenylalanylvalylglutaminylprolylmethionyllysylalanylalanylthreonyl arginylserine?

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by Chrism

You mean methionylglutaminylarginyltyrosylglutamylserylleucylphenylalanylalanylglutaminylleucyllysylglutamyla rginyllysylglutamylglycylalanylphenylalanylvalylprolylphenylalanylvalylthreonylleucylglycylaspartylp rolylglycylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylserylleucyllysylisoleucylaspartylthreonylleucylisoleucylglutam ylalanylglycylalanylaspartylalanylleucylglutamylleucylglycylisoleucylprolylphenylalanylserylaspartyl prolylleucylalanylaspartylglycylprolylthreonylisoleucylglutaminylasparaginylalanylthreonylleucylargi nylalanylphenylalanylalanylalanylglycylvalylthreonylprolylalanylglutaminylcysteinylphenylalanylgluta mylmethionylleucylalanylleucylisoleucylarginylglutaminyllysylhistidylprolylthreonylisoleucylprolylis oleucylglycylleucylleucylmethionyltyrosylalanylasparaginylleucylvalylphenylalanylasparaginyllysylgly cylisoleucylaspartylglutamylphenylalanyltyrosylalanylglutaminylcysteinylglutamyllysylvalylglycylvaly laspartylserylvalylleucylvalylalanylaspartylvalylprolylvalylglutaminylglutamylserylalanylprolylpheny lalanylarginylglutaminylalanylalanylleucylarginylhistidylasparaginylvalylalanylprolylisoleucylphenyl alanylisoleucylcysteinylprolylprolylaspartylalanylaspartylaspartylaspartylleucylleucylarginylglutami nylisoleucylalanylseryltyrosylglycylarginylglycyltyrosylthreonyltyrosylleucylleucylserylarginylalany lglycylvalylthreonylglycylalanylglutamylasparaginylarginylalanylalanylleucylprolylleucylasparaginylh istidylleucylvalylalanyllysylleucyllysylglutamyltyrosylasparaginylalanylalanylprolylprolylleucylglut aminylglycylphenylalanylglycylisoleucylserylalanylprolylaspartylglutaminylvalyllysylalanylalanylisol eucylaspartylalanylglycylalanylalanylglycylalanylisoleucylserylglycylserylalanylisoleucylvalyllysyli soleucylisoleucylglutamylglutaminylhistidylasparaginylisoleucylglutamylprolylglutamyllysylmethionyll eucylalanylalanylleucyllysylvalylphenylalanylvalylglutaminylprolylmethionyllysylalanylalanylthreonyl arginylserine?

You missed a letter.

[JonnyBGood]

Alright chrism?




(This has been a pointless post cos people don't come on irc often enough )

[Hecate]

This act is a joke, as is Blunkett if I may say. Politicians should be acting in the interest of the nation and it's people, how is narrowing the rights to gather and, for example, Blunkett's statement that Britain needs even more immigrants and asylum seekers, in the interest of the nation and it's people?