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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 21:29   #1
Dookie Velvet
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United Nations

The U.N. is the bastard offspring of Woodrow Wilson's illegitimate fallacy. It is not so much irrelevant - the favorite adjective kicked around so cavalierly these days by the talking heads - as it is pointless. (Is there a difference?)

The idea that self-serving entities i.e., nations, can join together to decide a happy outcome for everyone is more of a fairy tale than Cinderella.

The U.N. is condescension at its apogee in a constellation of stale, cosmic dust. There will be harmony among men when all men are dead. (The same goes for their superior counterpart.)
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 21:38   #2
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well, the eu can work very close together and archive a good outcome for every member (except for uk, but who cares about them ? )
i dont see why this shouldnt work on a larger scale, especially if the level of cooperation is even lower than within the eu.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 21:46   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
well, the eu can work very close together and archive a good outcome for every member (except for uk, but who cares about them ? )
i dont see why this shouldnt work on a larger scale, especially if the level of cooperation is even lower than within the eu.
The main reason it doesn't work well for the UK is that everyone else ignores the laws it passes.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 21:56   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
well, the eu can work very close together and archive a good outcome for every member (except for uk, but who cares about them ? )
Was President Chirac telling the countries of Eastern Europe to 'shut up' an example of working very close together?
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 22:00   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
well, the eu can work very close together and archive a good outcome for every member (except for uk, but who cares about them ?
Because the level of economic development is massively uneven? It remains to be seen whether the Eastern block countries can be easily integrated into the EU without problems (primarily due to economics).

How would the EU function say, if the whole continent of Africa joined?
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 22:04   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
The main reason it doesn't work well for the UK is that everyone else ignores the laws it passes.
and these laws would be which exactly?
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 22:04   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tactitus
Was President Chirac telling the countries of Eastern Europe to 'shut up' an example of working very close together?
so?
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 22:07   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dante Hicks
Because the level of economic development is massively uneven? It remains to be seen whether the Eastern block countries can be easily integrated into the EU without problems (primarily due to economics).

How would the EU function say, if the whole continent of Africa joined?
the eu was only an example for the fact that international cooperation can work, if everyone wants it to work. so why shouldnt the uno work aswell?
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 22:11   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tactitus
Was President Chirac telling the countries of Eastern Europe to 'shut up' an example of working very close together?
They should. Damn peasants.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 22:14   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
and these laws would be which exactly?
Most of the farming regulations, for a start.
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 22:14   #11
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wu, can I ask why you've chosen that quote for your sig?
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 23:05   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri
Most of the farming regulations, for a start.
and which of those are not respected by other countires? (i have to admit that whole BSE-story made up by france was just horrible)
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 23:07   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chrism
wu, can I ask why you've chosen that quote for your sig?
should i have put a behind it?
(And no, i dont speak any latin at all, i found a few pages of nice latin quotes / proverbs)
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Unread 16 Mar 2003, 23:46   #14
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aye it doesnt work very well, but whatdya want as an alternative?? every country doing what it wants?? now they may do that anyway, but at least this way we can all tell them they're wrong.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 07:33   #15
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how long has this war been discussed now? and when would this war have started without the uno?
hardly something i would call irrelevant. that Bush now goes back to anarchy and ignores international organizations is unfortunate, but impossible to change.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 08:18   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
should i have put a behind it?
(And no, i dont speak any latin at all, i found a few pages of nice latin quotes / proverbs)
From what I remember from history, it means 'How Great and Good it is to Die for your Country'. I would have put 'The old lie' before it, but I don't know how far you agree with its sentiments.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 09:36   #17
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i know what it means, i just didnt know the official translation into english. i replaced it now, this one is even better. "The law is silent during war"
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 15:19   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
i know what it means, i just didnt know the official translation into english. i replaced it now, this one is even better. "The law is silent during war"
oh comon wu cut it out. you heard it in Deep space nine
the episode with julian working as a spy for section 39 on romulus.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 15:30   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by m.ar.d
oh comon wu cut it out. you heard it in Deep space nine
the episode with julian working as a spy for section 39 on romulus.
nein, das ist aus "Latein für Angeber"
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 16:18   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
(except for uk, but who cares about them ? )
Which is exactly why a considerable %age of the UK public despise the EU and it's stupid politics.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 16:33   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Judge
Which is exactly why a considerable %age of the UK public despise the EU and it's stupid politics.
no, that 'considerable %age' is the reason why i wrote it.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 16:39   #22
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Re: United Nations

Quote:
Originally posted by Dookie Velvet
The U.N. is the bastard offspring of Woodrow Wilson's illegitimate fallacy. It is not so much irrelevant - the favorite adjective kicked around so cavalierly these days by the talking heads - as it is pointless. (Is there a difference?)

The idea that self-serving entities i.e., nations, can join together to decide a happy outcome for everyone is more of a fairy tale than Cinderella.

The U.N. is condescension at its apogee in a constellation of stale, cosmic dust. There will be harmony among men when all men are dead. (The same goes for their superior counterpart.)
The U.N may have many flaws HOWEVER it is a fantastic entity for keeping nations in line. Without the UN to answer to countries are free to do what they like without consequences. As long a the major nations dont undermine its power as The UK and US seem to be about to its keeping most of the nations in check and giving some kind of balance to the world. As soon as The UK and US do undermine it they are giving the likes of North Korea to attack those they consider a threat to them without any real jusification and there wont be anything any of us can do about it without first the US and UK having action taken agaisnt them also
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 21:03   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kegluneq
From what I remember from history, it means 'How Great and Good it is to Die for your Country'.
"It is sweet and glorious to die for one's country" is it I think.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 21:40   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by wu_trax
and which of those are not respected by other countires?

France,

In the 80's the French Farmers were taking the law into their own hands, public protests turned into attacks on British HGV drivers who were transporting British Produce across Europe, they destroyed the cargo, they also in some cases destroyed the vehicles, and assaulted the drivers.

What did the French Police do? Nothing, they stood and watched.

What did the French Government do? Nothing, they let it happen.

After British Beef had been declared by the EU as BSE Free and safe, the French Government refused to allow imports. That was in defiance of an EU resolution, and a European Court Judgement.

British Farmers and hauliers are still waiting to be compensated for losses in the 80's caused by French farmers.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 21:53   #25
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Re: Re: United Nations

Quote:
Originally posted by wakey
The U.N may have many flaws HOWEVER it is a fantastic entity for keeping nations in line. Without the UN to answer to countries are free to do what they like without consequences. As long a the major nations dont undermine its power as The UK and US seem to be about to its keeping most of the nations in check and giving some kind of balance to the world. As soon as The UK and US do undermine it they are giving the likes of North Korea to attack those they consider a threat to them without any real jusification and there wont be anything any of us can do about it without first the US and UK having action taken agaisnt them also
umm, no it isnt
Russia has been commiting attrocities in Chechnya for years, and the UN has never done a thing about it. Oh, thats right, russia has a veto.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 22:00   #26
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Re: Re: Re: United Nations

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Originally posted by NEWSBOT3
umm, no it isnt
Russia has been commiting attrocities in Chechnya for years, and the UN has never done a thing about it. Oh, thats right, russia has a veto.
Russia also has a fkoff huge military, a large nuclear arsenal, and a very nasty attitude when dealing with outsiders.

I especially liked Putin's threat to nuke every nation harboring terrorists should anyone pull somthing like 9/11 on them...
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 22:05   #27
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Re: Re: Re: Re: United Nations

Quote:
Originally posted by Sandsnake
Russia also has a fkoff huge military, a large nuclear arsenal, and a very nasty attitude when dealing with outsiders.

I especially liked Putin's threat to nuke every nation harboring terrorists should anyone pull somthing like 9/11 on them...
true, i was more shooting down wakeys rather silly claim really.
the UN limits no-one. Other countries do that, when and if they choose, and they'd do it with or without the UN in place.

Any country in this world can do what it likes, and the only thing that would discourage it is consequences, not some outdated, bloated, and badly setup international organisation.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 22:05   #28
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 22:07   #29
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I'm suprised Russia does not support a war in Iraq. It would effectively allow the Russians to enter Chechnya and do as they pleased.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 22:07   #30
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dont overestimate the power of the uno. i think there have been TWO wars that were legitmated by the uno. the korea war (because the SU left the meeting in protest and therefore couldnt veto) and the last gulf war. thats it.
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Unread 17 Mar 2003, 22:07   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHC
I'm suprised Russia does not support a war in Iraq. It would effectively allow the Russians to enter Chechnya and do as they pleased.
they are already doing that anyway.
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