Planetarion Forums - could the title music for Enterprise have gotten any worse ??

wu_trax · 22 Jan 2004, 14:14

i pretty much liked it. it had some very good episodes.

MrL_JaKiri · 22 Jan 2004, 14:18

It had a few decent ones. On the whole, it was rubbish though. The characters were bad, the overall 'plot' was bad (go go deus ex machina's!), the individual episodes were, mostly, bad.

Proteus · 22 Jan 2004, 14:20

What about "Threshold"?

MrL_JaKiri · 22 Jan 2004, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

What about "Threshold"?

Which one was that?

Proteus · 22 Jan 2004, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Which one was that?

The one where Paris and Janeway went at Warp 10 and evolved into lizards and had lizard babies.

MrL_JaKiri · 22 Jan 2004, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

The one where Paris and Janeway went at Warp 10 and evolved into lizards and had lizard babies.

The whole warp 10 thing was silly, too.

Proteus · 22 Jan 2004, 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

The whole warp 10 thing was silly, too.

The whole episode was completely absurd and terrible in every conceivable way.

But at least Voyager didn't have a baseball episode.

Churchil5 · 22 Jan 2004, 16:53

What about 'The Scorpion' - their introduction to The Borg?
What about 'Species 8472' - the Borg's biggest nightmare?

Voyager definately had the best series Finale of the lot.
Could've done more, but come on they crippled the borg!

Vermillion · 22 Jan 2004, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Churchil5

What about 'The Scorpion' - their introduction to The Borg?
What about 'Species 8472' - the Borg's biggest nightmare?

Voyager definately had the best series Finale of the lot.
Could've done more, but come on they crippled the borg!

Dear God no.

Voyager had the most potential of any of the shows, here was an opportunity to be really innovative, take a starfleet vesel and drop it in a part of the galaxy which has never heard of starfleet or anything start-Trek related. They were unencumbered by the constraints of the 'trek' universe and the sky was the limit for imagination.

All in all, barring one or two good episodes, the series was awful, with plastic cookie-cutter plots and weak acting. Far too many episodes were just 'dukes of Hazard' episodes* and the few times they tried a story arc it was worse still.

So with rating dropping, viewership fkleeing and critics panning it after several seasons, they tried to liven it up by introducing the one no-fail star trek villan, the Borg. Though overused, the Borg were a truly innovative concept in a star trek universe of slightly different foreheads. Now there was an opportunity to get into the Borg story on their home turf, find out about their history, pass through regions of Borg space and explore the effects on local worlds, it was a no-failure story arc.

Except that they COMPLETELY failed. They abandoned the Borg and introduced (for no good reason) another villain who was more powerful than the Borg, thus crippling the borg mistique and clogging down the tale. There was no real investigation of one of the greatest opportunities Voyager ever had, not to mention the continuity of the series suffered as well.

The final episode was asinine. Time travel (Thats NEVER been done before!) and a tale which tells just another story (and not a very good one), without actually giving the viewers anything of a conclusion or denouement. It interfered with the whole universe (apparently starfleet now has complete access to technology from 30 years in the future, including ablative armour, time travel device and scary phasers, thus allowing them to conquer the Alpha quadrant easily if they choose to.)

Awful series, utterly awful ending, Pleased it is gone. DS9 on the other hand, was exemplar of how to end a series...

Proteus · 22 Jan 2004, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermillion

DS9 on the other hand, was exemplar of how to end a series...

Have a fantastic episode with an amazing battle, conclude all the story arcs that have been building up throughout the last season, show that there is hope for peace after years of war, and then ruin it by boring everyone to death with forty five minutes of good-bye scenes?

MrL_JaKiri · 22 Jan 2004, 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermillion

Pleased it is gone. DS9 on the other hand, was exemplar of how to end a series...

Have it going nowhere for most of its time on screen, then copy b5?

sayonara · 22 Jan 2004, 17:56

Enterprise has absolutely no features whatsoever I'd call "good", except for the occasional VFX sequence (hello Earth's Destruction).

The writing is dire, despite "taking no chances" B&B still seem to be managing to shed Roddenberry ideals like old skin (see here), the characters are off-the-rack American stereotypes ("sure, you can have non-whites in it but only if they're American ones"), they're already using the old "haven't developed the character properly so devote an episode to them" device which NEVER works because another writer inevitably will contradict everything in it next week, the treknology is completely off kilter for the time, the time travel arc is just a complete ****ing joke, the science is absolute bullshit (see the episode-by-episode analyses by Berndt on www.ex-astris-scientia.org), every week brings new continuity problems which the producers SHOULD KNOW BETTER about, there's no damned INTERNAL continuity (read: universal translator problems disappeared after E010)...

I could go on. Oh god how I could go on.

Die B&B. Just crawl off and die.

wu_trax · 22 Jan 2004, 17:56

you dont like star trek, do you?

MrL_JaKiri · 22 Jan 2004, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by wu_trax

you dont like star trek, do you?

Sayonara or me?

sayonara · 22 Jan 2004, 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Sayonara or me?

You.

I just hate ENT. Oh, and any TOS that isn't a movie. Oh and TAS too.

wu_trax · 22 Jan 2004, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

Sayonara or me?

yes, you. stop bitching about every single series there ever was.

Leshy · 22 Jan 2004, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayonara

I just hate ENT. Oh, and any TOS that isn't a movie. Oh and TAS too.

MrL_JaKiri · 22 Jan 2004, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by wu_trax

yes, you. stop bitching about every single series there ever was.

TOS was decent for it's day, TNG was a bit simplistic but had good SciFi moments, and some decent moral conundrums.

It all went downhill from there.

MrL_JaKiri · 22 Jan 2004, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayonara

You.

I just hate ENT. Oh, and any TOS that isn't a movie. Oh and TAS too.

Some of TOS is ok. Some is Spock's Brain though, or Mudd's Women.

Tactitus · 22 Jan 2004, 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Have a fantastic episode with an amazing battle, conclude all the story arcs that have been building up throughout the last season, show that there is hope for peace after years of war, and then ruin it by boring everyone to death with forty five minutes of good-bye scenes?

I wouldn't judge any series by one episode.

I thought the early seasons of DS9 were pretty weak, but towards the end it was decent. Voyager was pretty much always weak.

sayonara · 22 Jan 2004, 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

TOS was decent for it's day, TNG was a bit simplistic but had good SciFi moments, and some decent moral conundrums.

It all went downhill from there.

As far as TNG goes, "Inner Light" is enough on its own to redeem seasons 1 & 2

sayonara · 22 Jan 2004, 18:07

Anyway, we're o/t.

I hate that crappy music so much, gaaaaa I want to lock it in a room with a hungry moose.

Although I am quite certain after watching "Chosen Realm" that they have toned down the bouncy bits.

MrL_JaKiri · 22 Jan 2004, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayonara

As far as TNG goes, "Inner Light" is enough on its own to redeem seasons 1 & 2

I don't know what they were trying to do with Pulaski, but it wasn't good whatever it was.

The Borg episodes were good as well, because they actually made some points of morality, rather than just LOOK TEHY'RE EVUL!

sayonara · 22 Jan 2004, 18:11

The Borg episodes on TNG were all over-rated, apart from "Q-Who" (for the ass-kicking) and "I, Borg" (for the moral dilemma).

MrL_JaKiri · 22 Jan 2004, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayonara

The Borg episodes on TNG were all over-rated, apart from "Q-Who" (for the ass-kicking) and "I, Borg" (for the moral dilemma).

Descent's not all that great, but Best of Both Worlds is good.

(Those two being the only ones you haven't mentioned)

That's the other thing that was good about TNG. It wasn't a gimmick every week.

sayonara · 22 Jan 2004, 18:17

BOBW was good, but over-rated as I said.

They took the "direct hit, sir [insert absolutely no VFX shot here]" approach and scaled it up to "oh my god we're losing half the fleet [insert no vfx here]".

Then the Borg headed straight for Earth with the Ent-D following and I was like omfg what's going to happen next like omg I hopes they catch teh Borg ship fs!!!!!!!!!11112

Etc.

Proteus · 22 Jan 2004, 18:19

I like everything except TOS, TAS, TMP, TFF, and the "emotional episodes" (the ones where nothing happens but someone has a baby* or falls in love or has a family crisis or finds out something bad about their past etc.).

*except Disaster, which is great.

sayonara · 22 Jan 2004, 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

or has a family crisis*.

* that doesn't involve anyone called Moogy, or transvestisism.

Fixed

MrL_JaKiri · 22 Jan 2004, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayonara

BOBW was good, but over-rated as I said.

They took the "direct hit, sir [insert absolutely no VFX shot here]" approach and scaled it up to "oh my god we're losing half the fleet [insert no vfx here]".

Then the Borg headed straight for Earth with the Ent-D following and I was like omfg what's going to happen next like omg I hopes they catch teh Borg ship fs!!!!!!!!!11112

Etc.

Compared to most of DS9/Voyager, it's more subtle than Smiley (played by Alec Guiness or otherwise)

Proteus · 22 Jan 2004, 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayonara

Fixed

Any episode with Ferengi in is automatically brilliant.

Dante Hicks · 22 Jan 2004, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermillion

The final episode was asinine. Time travel (Thats NEVER been done before!) and a tale which tells just another story (and not a very good one), without actually giving the viewers anything of a conclusion or denouement.

What's worse is the final episode of Voyager is a direct rip-off of one of their own episodes - Timeless (which was actually very good).

There are some very good Voyager episodes, but the arcs are rubbish (completley misued the Borg as you say) and overall it's weak.

DS9 started badly, got MUCH better and then got awful at times near the end. I found the whole "prophets" thing a total betrayl of the Trek universe, and the stupid later bits with the prophets vs pah wraiths.

The Dominion were the best baddies after the Borg though. As usual though, they built them up too much and then had to think of a silly reason as to why they wouldn't just flatten the Federation.

MrL_JaKiri · 22 Jan 2004, 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Any episode with Ferengi in is automatically brilliant.

*DS9 S1-3*

Proteus · 22 Jan 2004, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

*DS9 S1-3*

I'm willing to ignore all the Bajoran nonsense because there's Ferengi there.

Dante Hicks · 22 Jan 2004, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Any episode with Ferengi in is automatically brilliant.

The Ferengi mainly irritated me, but maybe that's because of latent anti-semitism.

sayonara · 22 Jan 2004, 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri

*DS9 S1-3*

"Profit & Lace"

Comedy Gold Pressed Latinum

Leshy · 22 Jan 2004, 20:17

Am I the only one to like the Bajoran religion motive in DS9?

Radical Edward · 22 Jan 2004, 20:23

Star Trek doesn't have Bester. Therefore Star Trek cannot be as good.

Dante Hicks · 22 Jan 2004, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leshy

Am I the only one to like the Bajoran religion motive in DS9?

Yes. Yes you are.

I found the whole sympathies to religion to go against the general atheism of the show.

The only good bit was when the Jem'Hadar is on the station and tells them their colonies have been done in the Gamma Quadrant. "They fought well....for a spiritual people."

Vermillion · 22 Jan 2004, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leshy

Am I the only one to like the Bajoran religion motive in DS9?

The religion would have been fine, and in fact interesting (Aliens that have been mistaken for Gods) except that they started taking it too seriously by the end, the whole thing with the Pah Wraiths removed the element of interest from the misguided spirituality, and made it too much of a primary plot element. Then it just got silly.

Marilyn Manson · 22 Jan 2004, 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

The Ferengi mainly irritated me, but maybe that's because of latent anti-semitism.

I always thought they were piss-poor charicatures of the Japanese actually.

Radical Edward · 22 Jan 2004, 22:52

so bad that it is almost impossible to identify any Japanese character traits?

Marilyn Manson · 22 Jan 2004, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radical Edward

so bad that it is almost impossible to identify any Japanese character traits?

Small, chattering, socially conservative capitalists?

Evergreen · 22 Jan 2004, 23:38

What ruined voyager is that it was one federation starship that went without maintenance and managed to do the impossible. Pwn the borg again and again and again.

It was totally unbelievable that a generally undermanned starship without any federation aided maintenance could do what picard and many others couldn't which was take on what was supposedly an indomitable force by themselves again and again and again.

Not to mention the amount of crap paradoxical timeline episodes that seemed to be a recurring theme every 5 episodes. That got boring v v quickly.

Regardless though While the series was totally horrible it was v watchable purely for the EMH who I felt is the best actor ever to do a star trek series with regards to the role's he had to perform. Sometimes it did feel a bit self graitutious at times but none the less doctor episodes were the only one's worth watching.

Enterprise is like the stinking rejected manure from wannabe star trek script writers.

TNG is watchable in any order, DS-9 is unwatchable unless you start from a series/plot-line to the end. Also it was too bajor-centric at times which was a major drag.....

Dante Hicks · 22 Jan 2004, 23:41

They lost a major opportunity by showing what a Federation crew could be like if they lost their technological edge. If anything, the "tech to the rescue!" plotlines were more numerous in Voyager than TNG.

A much more interesting ship they introduced was the other Starfleet vessel they met (the Equinox?) who had abandoned their morals to survive.

p.s. I mainly agree with Sunday

Tactitus · 23 Jan 2004, 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proteus

Any episode with Ferengi in is automatically brilliant.

I didn't care for the Ferengi, although I liked the scene where Quark persuades Garek to try root beer.

Garek: It's vile!
Quark: I know. It's so bubbly, and cloy, and happy.
Garek: Just like the Federation!
Quark: And you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it. It's insidious.
Garek: Just like the Federation.

Dante Hicks · 23 Jan 2004, 00:29

Garak was the best character in DS9 by a massive margin.

Neferti · 23 Jan 2004, 05:56

hmm, star trek eh. Unfortunately i still have only seen half of ToS even to this day

but yes the Enterprise music is pretty poor; to go with the series as a whole, which in seasons 1 and 2 seemed to have maybe 1 good episode for every 6 or 7 bad ones... yet i keep watching in the hope it will go like TNG and DS9 and get good. As for series endings, well to me it is relatively clear, TNG is the best, but only because DS9's was ruined by the second half and the fact they didnt kill off Sisko (which i think would have been better... but then no real possibility for films unless he did a Spock...); Voyager's was just total rubbish. I did enjoy the series Voyager BUT not as much as i should have done. Should have done, that is, if it had fulfilled its potential... oh and DS9's intro wasn't so bad once they altered it in like season 4 or 5 to have more going on...

General Martok · 23 Jan 2004, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactitus

I didn't care for the Ferengi, although I liked the scene where Quark persuades Garek to try root beer.

Garek: It's vile!
Quark: I know. It's so bubbly, and cloy, and happy.
Garek: Just like the Federation!
Quark: And you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it, you begin to like it. It's insidious.
Garek: Just like the Federation.

Oh YEAH that part was good

I also liked the episode where the 6 ferengi want to exchange the vorta for moogy.

I'd have to agree Garak is the most intregueing (spelling anyone, cba checking it) character. Just watch "merely a tailer" get the Romulan into the war in In the pale moonlight

About the title music: long live the mute button, or in case of taped or d/l episodes, fast forward....

MrL_JaKiri · 23 Jan 2004, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks

Garak was the best character in DS9 by a massive margin.

He's like Bester, but not quite as good.

madi · 23 Jan 2004, 13:30

who?