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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 05:14   #1
Clouds
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Apprime & Imperia

I don't usually read or post on alliance discussions, but I want to express how surprised I am how cowardly certain alliances are.

Apprime and Imperia are now double teaming the smaller alliances, and that shows to me how much of a coward those two alliances really are.

It's actually pathetic.
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 08:14   #2
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

LOL?
is this post even necessary?? having the 3/4/5 ranked alliances napped. and 2nd napped to 1st after that.
so who do u propose apprime hit??? tell me please.....
although the fact that u say apprime is hitting ND is funny also.... please show us proof of apprime hitting Nd fort

basically stop nagging, and spreading retardness.. tnxs
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 11:12   #3
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Apprime clearly wants to win.
Imperia clearly doesn't want to win.
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 11:49   #4
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Originally Posted by VampiriA View Post
although the fact that u say apprime is hitting ND is funny also.... please show us proof of apprime hitting Nd fort

basically stop nagging, and spreading retardness.. tnxs
can you show us proof of him actually saying apprime are hitting ND ,
i dont normally neg rep people but in your case im going to make an exception
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 11:54   #5
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Apprime and Imperia are now double teaming the smaller alliances, and that shows to me how much of a coward those two alliances really are.
As you contemplate this it would be worth remembering that this position might have been avoided had CT and ND been willing to suspend their feud with Imperia.
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 14:09   #6
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

I'm touching myself baby!
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 14:09   #7
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
As you contemplate this it would be worth remembering that this position might have been avoided had CT and ND been willing to suspend their feud with Imperia.
ND were hitting app when imp broke up with asc, CT could probbly have been persuaded to cease the attacks on imp to hit app if imp hadn't been trying to poach ct guys
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 14:11   #8
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
I don't usually read or post on alliance discussions, but I want to express how surprised I am how cowardly certain alliances are.

Apprime and Imperia are now double teaming the smaller alliances, and that shows to me how much of a coward those two alliances really are.

It's actually pathetic.
Im sorry ND. Its all because we had some wrong intel, which caused us to hit ND by accident!

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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 14:13   #9
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo View Post
can you show us proof of him actually saying apprime are hitting ND ,
i dont normally neg rep people but in your case im going to make an exception
sure..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Apprime and Imperia are now double teaming the smaller alliances, and that shows to me how much of a coward those two alliances really are.

It's actually pathetic.
Seeing that he is ND, and and that ND are down approx 9% on roids today.. think its obvious.. he meant ND by "smaller alliances"
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 15:49   #10
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by VampiriA View Post
sure..



Seeing that he is ND, and and that ND are down approx 9% on roids today.. think its obvious.. he meant ND by "smaller alliances"
Heh, and that's proof how?

I didn't specifiy an alliance, I said, and I quote, "smaller alliances."
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 15:52   #11
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Heh, and that's proof how?

I didn't specifiy an alliance, I said, and I quote, "smaller alliances."
ok then... i'll play along.

please tell us who are the small alliances
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 15:55   #12
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Heh, and that's proof how?

I didn't specifiy an alliance, I said, and I quote, "smaller alliances."
We bashed patsa
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 16:14   #13
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Correct me if im wrong but i thought all alliance's were smalller than apprime?
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 16:38   #14
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Big PA alliances bully the rest of the universe, it's hardly a surprise, they do the same at PA team level. That's why you won't see any change. PA IS about bashing its way to the top, play or quit.
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 16:46   #15
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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We bashed patsa
zomg so did we!

cept we sucked and Theamion failed to land anything on poco
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 18:15   #16
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
As you contemplate this it would be worth remembering that this position might have been avoided had CT and ND been willing to suspend their feud with Imperia.
How much has ND actually launched on Imperia?
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 19:25   #17
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by zebra View Post
How much has ND actually launched on Imperia?
That is not the point at all, U may have not launched at all!
The point is that Imperia suspended their nap with Asc and drifted into Apps camp thus removing the prospect of a gangbang on app because we could not get guarantees from ND and CT not to hit them.
(I will carefully ignore the fact that we finished the process by then launching on Imp)
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 20:31   #18
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Londo's been making a whole lot of sense lately.

I for one supported a "gangbang" of Apprime earlier, for the reasons lokken (iirc) has given in the other thread - if we'd side with Apprime there wouldn't be much of a round after a week or two. I was a tad bit disappointed when we dropped the nap with Asc, then again with CT's reluctance (or just plain refusal) to drop their hostilities towards us, for whatever reason, I can't say I blame our HC.

Then, Asc started attacking us, when up until then it was still very likely we'd cooperate vs Apprime, even if it'd take us a few days extra to get things going the way we wanted 'em to.

After that there really was zero incentive for us NOT to take up on Apprime's offer (I assume, at least, that it was coming from them) to stay neutral towards each other until the round ends. Napping them is really the only way for us to guarantee they won't secure the top X planets for themselves.

Long story short, Imperia didn't see a way to achieve #1, so we did the next best thing, #2.

Ambitious? No.
Cowardly? Maybe.
Smart? Guess we'll never know.
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Unread 14 Nov 2010, 21:40   #19
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
few days extra
You misspelt the word 'epochs' there fyi.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 00:14   #20
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

****ing remove allyrankings while game is ticking, just show the final rankings to see what ally did well.
But then we do not have all those posts to read..........
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 00:46   #21
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Then, Asc started attacking us, when up until then it was still very likely we'd cooperate vs Apprime, even if it'd take us a few days extra to get things going the way we wanted 'em to.
Your HC's complete unreasonableness has clearly precipitated this course of events. Their efffective termination of the nap for pretty much no reason was a clear statement of intent that they no longer wished to work with Ascendancy. Given the consequentially dire possibility of Apprime being contained, we were left no option to turn our guns on you. We want to play planetarion - that doesn't mean winning necessarily but what it does mean is not having a dead game for 500 ticks: Imperia are clearly to blame for this.

I mean your post reads as if it's some painful half apology anyway, so why keep up the pretense?
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 04:50   #22
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Hold your horses there, let's get a few things straight.

I am in no way representing Imperia nor have I had any influence on the decisions they (the HC) have made, other than voicing my opinion to Buddah (and I actually was against dropping the NAP, so that doesn't hold much value!). I've actually been really passively playing PA compared to my usual rounds.

Secondly, I was 'disgusted' just as much as Ascendancy was by the mail "we" sent you. I'd have been much more content with the decision, even if I disagreed with it, if we'd have done it personally via IRC and at least talking about it, rather than "breaking up through email".

As for the "pretty much no reason" part, the way we saw it, was that after we would have managed to beat Apprime, you would be friendly to Newdawn, and we would be hostile towards Conspiracy, leaving us with no friends, and you with two (as Newdawn and CT were allied at the time as well). If we'd have gotten either of those two to back off, or at least show some sign of neutrality (especially from CT's side) things would have been way different.

But they didn't. So here we are.

Yes, we backed out too soon out of our agreement. No, this did not mean the end of the round. Ascendancy then attacking us did. Neither of us is innocent.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 09:50   #23
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post

Napping them is really the only way for us to guarantee they won't secure the top X planets for themselves.
I don't believe that before I see it.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 10:18   #24
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

It was pretty obvious with imp terminating the nap in that way and with app already thumping pretty hard on our door that it wouldn't be long before impprime joined apprime, 1 week later and what do we see, imp and app co-ordinated attacks on asc, oh the shock.

With firebird in charge and titos being a big girly girl, did we honestly see this round going any different?

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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 10:27   #25
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
Your HC's complete unreasonableness has clearly precipitated this course of events. Their efffective termination of the nap for pretty much no reason was a clear statement of intent that they no longer wished to work with Ascendancy. Given the consequentially dire possibility of Apprime being contained, we were left no option to turn our guns on you. We want to play planetarion - that doesn't mean winning necessarily but what it does mean is not having a dead game for 500 ticks: Imperia are clearly to blame for this.
Nevertheless, our assault on Imp has hardly been a sparkling success. We would have been better off waiting and keeping the door of a grand coalition open as long as possible.
We would have lost nothing while keeping options open, if Imp was bound to join App so we attacked them a week later, how much worse for us would it be? Even if its a very remote possibility that they would see sense and joined us we should have left things ready for that because now we are well and truly stuck.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 10:47   #26
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Londo and Patrikc are both right to a certain degree, our turning on Imp was a pretty petty act that followed what we felt was them taking the worst possible option. In reality though, with us having been under attack from Apprime for the previous two weeks, Imperia backing out meant there was very little left for us to play for. Petty acts and a few small pockets of resistance were pretty much all we had left.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 10:57   #27
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Has to be said

Due to CT, Imp and ND HC being absolute Donkeys at Political maneuvers.
You have gifted apprime the win and also roiding rights to your alliance top planets.
Asc HC, just too late pre pt 100 would have been alot easier than now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
I don't believe that before I see it.
Maybe thats what they (imp HC) need to learn.
I suspect Imp will be a 1 round wonder so no long term gain.

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Napping them is really the only way for us to guarantee they won't secure the top X planets for themselves.
I had expected better from you than to think that.

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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 11:02   #28
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Asc HC, just too late pre pt 100 would have been alot easier than now.
what does that mean? by going to war with App in week 2 rather than week 1 we were too late? Simple fact App is better than us, possibly a lot better than us, when we fought is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Maybe thats what they (imp HC) need to learn.
I suspect Imp will be a 1 round wonder so no long term gain.
They have said they will go on. On the other hand if they wanted too they would have been well advised not to earn the enmity of three of the four long term top tier alliances.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 11:21   #29
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
what does that mean? by going to war with App in week 2 rather than week 1 we were too late? Simple fact App is better than us, possibly a lot better than us, when we fought is irrelevant.
Im not arguing that apprime are better than asc this round...
What I am saying is it would have been easier to have taken apprime out with support from other alliances (which should have been easy in theory if those alliances had any sense of self preservation/Not being donkeys and especially no "santacruz's flak ally" playing aswell) earlier in the round than now

Im not faulting Asc actions (in general) just their timing off the actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
They have said they will go on. On the other hand if they wanted too they would have been well advised not to earn the enmity of three of the four long term top tier alliances.
I wouldn't rule out Imp losing a good few members between now and the start of next round.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 11:28   #30
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Fair-weather friends.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 11:44   #31
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Im not arguing that apprime are better than asc this round...
What I am saying is it would have been easier to have taken apprime out with support from other alliances (which should have been easy in theory if those alliances had any sense of self preservation/Not being donkeys and especially no "santacruz's flak ally" playing aswell) earlier in the round than now

Im not faulting Asc actions (in general) just their timing off the actions.
Ah there is a problem there; in the very early stages of the round, before App thumped us Asc looked quite strong, indeed we were top for a few days, none of the other allies would have wanted to demolish Apprime just to have Ascendancy up there instead.
And as I understand it the ND/CT vs Imp war started pre-round so the problems that beset a later attempt at a gangbang were already in place.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 11:54   #32
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Basically imp are another fail alliance...

props to App
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 14:31   #33
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
Hold your horses there, let's get a few things straight.

I am in no way representing Imperia nor have I had any influence on the decisions they (the HC) have made, other than voicing my opinion to Buddah (and I actually was against dropping the NAP, so that doesn't hold much value!). I've actually been really passively playing PA compared to my usual rounds.
Of course the fact your currently the no 1 planet has no bearing on your opinion
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 14:56   #34
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Of course the fact you're currently the no 1 planet has no bearing on your opinion
Correct.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 15:24   #35
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

I kind of doubt that. My personal opinion is that Imperia dropped the nap with Ascendancy and napped Apprime specifically to satisfy the rank whores.

Fortunetly, there are signs that they (the rank whores) lose value after being escorted. Hi, Chimpie.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 15:46   #36
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

so, 2 rounds in a row we see a scenario where #2 alliance nap #1 alliance?

thats pretty fking awesome!
I had fun 1 week this round, and that was when I was roiding inactive nubs
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 16:20   #37
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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I kind of doubt that. My personal opinion is that Imperia dropped the nap with Ascendancy and napped Apprime specifically to satisfy the rank whores.
i have seen 5 out of the top 6 imperia planets say they didn't agree with the politics, so i doubt it was to their satisfaction

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Fortunetly, there are signs that they (the rank whores) lose value after being escorted. Hi, Chimpie.
I believe it was Chimpie's goal to get HaSu to #1 with his action, which at that time succeeded.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 17:43   #38
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
I believe it was Chimpie's goal to get HaSu to #1 with his action, which at that time succeeded.
God, you are clueless. Chimpie crashed some 250k on Smasher after being escorted.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 19:17   #39
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Originally Posted by Shev View Post
Londo and Patrikc are both right to a certain degree, our turning on Imp was a pretty petty act that followed what we felt was them taking the worst possible option. In reality though, with us having been under attack from Apprime for the previous two weeks, Imperia backing out meant there was very little left for us to play for. Petty acts and a few small pockets of resistance were pretty much all we had left.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 19:23   #40
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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i have seen 5 out of the top 6 imperia planets say they didn't agree with the politics, so i doubt it was to their satisfaction
Many times the rank whores often don't shout about wanting their top planet o so very badly and thank god we napped the alliance most likely to roid us. Many times they manage to fool themselves about how dearly they would have loved a good war but fate just conspired against us.

It's like the people who somehow always manage to find a reason to quit an alliance that isn't doing well while denying it was about preserving their rank and it was just never meant to be.

Some of whom actually make their way back into that same alliance the next round when it looks like the strongest alliance again. Not that I'm naming any names here or anything...
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 21:05   #41
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Originally Posted by ricoshay View Post
God, you are clueless. Chimpie crashed some 250k on Smasher after being escorted.
ahh i didn't know this when i replied, but then again i doubt chimpie really cares as he claimed to have no further personal interest in this round after his 'crash' on shazna earlier. I'll withdraw my earlier comment tho, and let him explain for himself if he cares to.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 21:30   #42
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Anyhow let's just face the situation from a different perspective. Instead of calling Imperia and Apprime big bad pussies, let's just call Ascendancy soar losers.

If anything happened this round it was yet another huge political defeat for Ascendancy.
At first Ascendancy failed in warring Apprime on their own.
Then Ascendancy failed in backing up their newfound partner after they NAP'd Imperia.
Then Ascendancy failed in building concensus around the universe that it would be in everyones interest to gang up on Apprime.
Then Ascendancy failed in breaking the fairly obvious relation between Apprime and Imperia while they had the chance(be it a slim one).
Then Ascendancy failed in breaking through Imperia's defences hard enough for them to fear Ascendancy, and making them re-evaluate their position.

So now please stop acting like whiny, soar losers. And start reorganising your asses so you won't fail like this again.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 21:46   #43
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

Personally, I think we failed this round because we suck on a consistent basis. We've only been saying that we're not that strong any more for 5 rounds now, apparently that hasn't quite sunk in yet!

Politics certainly didn't help though, I'll grant you that.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 21:54   #44
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
So now please stop acting like whiny, soar losers. And start reorganising your asses so you won't fail like this again.
Hold on. You think coming second isn't failing? Everyone who isn't apprime failed this round. Just because you decided to be someone's bitch instead of getting killed by them doesn't make it any better dude. It just makes you gay.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 21:56   #45
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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.....let's just call Ascendancy soar losers.
We soar! up up and away!
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 22:29   #46
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

HCs should stop playing for 2nd places... Problem is theres too much bad blood ( idiots in command ) certain places, so its hard to get things done.
I know I failed miserably in r30 with Lolmen or whatever you wanna call it, but atleast I always TRIED to go for #1 as long as that was possible :/
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 22:44   #47
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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I failed miserably
Par for the course, Wishy. <3
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 23:16   #48
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

ye I know. yet r30 was far more entertaining ( for most ) than what we have seen recently...
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 23:39   #49
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
Nevertheless, our assault on Imp has hardly been a sparkling success. We would have been better off waiting and keeping the door of a grand coalition open as long as possible.
We would have lost nothing while keeping options open, if Imp was bound to join App so we attacked them a week later, how much worse for us would it be? Even if its a very remote possibility that they would see sense and joined us we should have left things ready for that because now we are well and truly stuck.
Absolute rubbish. By engaging a complete about turn and giving utterly spurious reasons as to why (had they been reasonable we might legitimately go down your line of thinking) we might as well attack by caprice if they are intent on trying to play for planet ranks (if they get away with that).

Our lack of motivation is as much down to us having nothing to play for because Imperia killed the round stone dead by their move and their general attitude as it is to us being older and less accommodating to pa than we used to be. We were pretty much willing to throw our entire alliance to the fire to keep the round interesting, and they effectively rejected the offer flat.

I don't think you quite get it: Imperia are playing like Angels. Like Angels, they appear as socially limited (just look at the piece of tat they sent us to end the NAP) as they are politically. If they want to behave this way, we can't work with these people. And in the long run, they're just getting themselves destroyed in the long run.
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Unread 15 Nov 2010, 23:52   #50
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Re: Apprime & Imperia

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Hold on. You think coming second isn't failing? Everyone who isn't apprime failed this round. Just because you decided to be someone's bitch instead of getting killed by them doesn't make it any better dude. It just makes you gay.
I never said coming second isn't failing. I'll also never say that Imperia hasn't failed to get best out of the situation they were in. However i see very little Imperia whining on this board, so i suppose the average Imperia member feels otherwise. But it's the Ascendancy troll squad whining all over again. And i can tell you this, the major part of the community has grown sick of the negative additude some Ascendancy members have been displaying on these boards over the years. And while i can understand the frustration Ascendancy members are currently having obviously, i feel it is time for them to look at themself for a change.

Ofc it's all about playing the hand you've been dealt with to your best advantage, and i feel that the hand that was dealt to Imperia (mostly by their own actions) had little chance of resulting in a round win.

So when time came to choose, Imperia had to choose the better of two evils. They could either side with Ascendancy. Which would only result in a second place if Apprime had been defeated with devastating numbers AND they could keep outgrowing Ascendancy (With CT and likely ND hitting them again as soon as Apprime shown signs of imminent defeat). Or side with Apprime, knowing they would get incs from Asc/CT/ND, which they've proven to withstand by now, whilst they could target Asc/CT/ND together. Which would secure them a certain 2nd place.

So basicly Imperia had to chose between fighting Apprime in a gangrape, probably prolonging the effective round by 200-300 ticks, but being very likely to loose their 2nd place. A feeling that was confirmed by Ascendancy attacking ODDR and ToF during the Imp/Asc NAP. or lock-up the round early, and secure their 2nd place.

I won't say i agree with Imperia's decision to side with Apprime, but i can understand why they chose to do so. I personally would have loved to see Imperia pick the side of Asc, and setting up a cooperation which would have led to a longer effective round. Even if that would have resulted in a backstab from Ascendancy in the event of Apprime's defeat.

Personally i feel fighting and losing beholds greater honour than idling to a 'win'.
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don't be an arse, join [TiT]

In the absence of the good old TiT alliance, look me up in VGN
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