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Unread 29 May 2008, 11:46   #151
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
There were idiots like me that added shitloads of phantoms to their DE fleet and attack terrans that couldn't Inc scan them.
I didn't keep track of the total amount of harpys I killed that way, but I can tell you that it was shitloads of em.
the change to having phoenix/harpy as the same class should help terrans against this tho
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Unread 29 May 2008, 18:02   #152
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Re: Stats Round 27

i can't imagine them changing much, it's a free round, maybe even nothing
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Unread 29 May 2008, 19:01   #153
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Re: Stats Round 27

Hello, have you even looked at the url i pasted?
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Unread 29 May 2008, 19:24   #154
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Re: Stats Round 27

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Originally Posted by isildurx
Hello, have you even looked at the url i pasted?
Sorry, we ignore people with shitty signatures.
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Unread 29 May 2008, 19:33   #155
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Re: Stats Round 27

Surely its not still shit, if it is its all JBGs fault.
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Unread 30 May 2008, 11:45   #156
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Re: Stats Round 27

The current set of stats here would be what I'd put forward. Changes at this point from my end would depend on feedback from the beta etc
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Unread 30 May 2008, 13:06   #157
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Re: Stats Round 27

Improvements have been made to the stats in my opinion, Terran certainly are a better race now. Not sure how good etd cr\bs is though, hope someone tests it.
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Unread 30 May 2008, 14:16   #158
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Re: Stats Round 27

First thing I noticed was broadsword change.

This severely weakens etd against BS whilst providing little extra benefit against CR. If etd are considered too weak, swapping the broadsword and guardian targetting back may be a sensible thing IMO.
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Unread 30 May 2008, 14:49   #159
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
First thing I noticed was broadsword change.

This severely weakens etd against BS whilst providing little extra benefit against CR. If etd are considered too weak, swapping the broadsword and guardian targetting back may be a sensible thing IMO.
This is just wrong to be honest. Etd is definitely better off versus cath cr, more bs flak to absorb emp plus a kill t1. Etd cr or cr/bs on etd is, well, retarded really. There are a lot better targets and best case scenario it's probably mutual destruction. More likely you just get done by lancers with all the emp flak. Versus zik bs the primary def ship is the lancer, it's certainly no worse against zik bs as last round the guardian was only t2 versus bs, now it's t1, and the broadsword fired after the rogue anyways. Versus terran bs you now have the guardian t1 targetting it and the broadsword still firing first, albeit at t2, although of course the dragon still only targets it back as t2.

That said the main boost to etd strength is the addition of the vsh. This significantly improves etd versus co incs. Hopefully the avenger will make the cr/bs roiding fleet a lot more viable as well as providing more protection versus fr/de. To me personally I didn't really like terran last round, or etd although to a lesser extent. I would now definitely consider going terran (I just hate emp so I doubt I'd go etd anyways).
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Unread 30 May 2008, 15:19   #160
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
To be honest it's extremely hard to attack with anything on its own with multi-targetting in the current environment.
Just out of curiosity, does anybody consider this to be good for the game?
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Unread 30 May 2008, 15:39   #161
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Re: Stats Round 27

no fi or co for etd then? gonna make ally def a bitch.
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Unread 30 May 2008, 16:18   #162
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Re: Stats Round 27

like the etd co was used a lot last round...
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Unread 30 May 2008, 16:27   #163
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Re: Stats Round 27

touchee
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Unread 30 May 2008, 16:39   #164
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Just out of curiosity, does anybody consider this to be good for the game?
We should always strive for game mechanics and stats that make teaming up between races both possible and preferable, despite the fact that the attackers generally cap less roids each (assuming an equal launch/land ratio, which I realise is a faulty assumption, but one that many make nonetheless). As such, it's a good thing that attacking on one's own is harder than attacking in pairs or groups. I however do not think the current system allows for the balance we need, and as I've said in this thread before, I at least partly blame multi targetting for that.
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Unread 30 May 2008, 18:07   #165
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veedeejem!
Just out of curiosity, does anybody consider this to be good for the game?
Not really. I'm okay with it though. It encourages integration of the existing playerbase which is probably more significant than the numbers of genuine new players we get. It was outside my purview, and that of the stats in general, anyways though so I'd make a suggestions thread about it if I was you.

Quote:
no fi or co for etd then? gonna make ally def a bitch.
eksero made the point I've made when people have asked me about this. Frankly if terran are improved and the number of terrans goes up, or at least the number of decent players going terran, I'd imagine the amount of available ally eta anti-co in the universe would be roughly equivalent to last round. The cutlass has also been upgraded to address this.
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Unread 30 May 2008, 18:25   #166
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx
Improvements have been made to the stats in my opinion, Terran certainly are a better race now. Not sure how good etd cr\bs is though, hope someone tests it.
from what i have tested, is going for etd cr a waste of resources, cause u have the best FR roiding fleet available out there.

etd cr/bs dont stand a chance vs zik, not sure about cathaar and terran bs/cr, cause too few played em in beta

overall i´s say the new stats are more balanced then last rounds, terran finally is a option and etd has a higher chance to keep the roids

i see cathaar and xan (though co got bit higher emp res) on the loosing side
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Unread 30 May 2008, 18:28   #167
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Re: Stats Round 27

Why so low damage on harpy? Shouldn't they have 5 or so?
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Unread 30 May 2008, 19:00   #168
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
This is just wrong to be honest.
With BS/CR, the broadsword causes 200% more damage to an equally sized dragon fleet than the dragons cause to it*. With CR/BS the broadsword causes 19% more damage.

Against zik BS, an equal value broad vs rogue fleet*, the ziks cause 28% more damage than the etds if the 'sword targetting is BS/CR. If the broads are CR/BS targetting, then the ziks cause 113% more damage.


Meanwhile, a chunk of unstunned swords will scare off caths and etd-etd is a game of chicken regardless of targetting order. So target order doesn't really affect CR defence whilst strongly affecting BS defence. Does the etd CR fleet need nerfing to empower ter/zik BS more?

*assuming same # of wyverns as dragons, same # of fireblades and broads & same # of pirates as rogues for flak purposes.
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Unread 30 May 2008, 19:18   #169
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatrick
no fi or co for etd then? gonna make ally def a bitch.
would it not be best simply to switch the terran salvage bonus to etd? assuming I am right that the reason for the salvage bonus was that tarran was difficult to use in out of gal def, now that is not the case, whereas for etd it is. etd players will also most likely have a lot of emp ships that dont kill at all (and therefore should have the same arguments as cathaar for having a salvage bonus).
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Unread 31 May 2008, 01:18   #170
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Re: Stats Round 27

is there a list of the changes made from last round ? I haven't kept r26 stats so i can't compare...

Thanks
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Unread 31 May 2008, 02:50   #171
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
is there a list of the changes made from last round ? I haven't kept r26 stats so i can't compare...

Thanks

Phoenix: Class CO -> FI

Phantom: Target FI/CO -> CO/FI

Sentinel: Target FR/CO -> FR/CO/FI

Peacekeeper: Init 9->7

Marauder: Target CR -> CR/BS

Culdassa Arrowhead: Name Culdassa Arrowhead -> Vsharrak Destroyer. Class CO->DE

Cryvellian Broadsword: Target BS/CR -> CR/BS

Kthal Fireblade: Target FR/DE -> DE/FR

NEW SHIP: Etd Avenger. BS targetting FR, init 2, stun.


From memory. Efficiencies may have been changed, but I don't remember them specifically.
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Unread 31 May 2008, 03:48   #172
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Re: Stats Round 27

Thanks

Phantom: Target FI/CO -> CO/FI << looks like there will be a lot more spiders in uni this round
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Unread 31 May 2008, 10:34   #173
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Re: Stats Round 27

General

The main change this round is the change in production. This affects all races, but it is expected that Zik will be most affected by this.

Terran
Terrans have had some changes. Making the Phoenix a fighter will help Terrans vs. Cath co. No idea why the Centaur was upgraded though: it didn’t need it. The Wyvern definitely needed an upgrade to make the Bs fleet viable. Terran was one of the weaker races, I think they will be average now. (Although as always also over-represented at the bottom of the rankings.)

Cathaar
This was a strong race. Changes to them have been minimal. Most noteworthy is improving the Mantis initiative. A number of changes to the ships of other races makes this race significantly less effective. Cathaar will be a lot less overpowering than before.

Xan
Changing the targetting for the Phantom is a downgrade now that Phoenixes are fighters.
Some minor emp improvements will make Xan a bit less vulnerable. The improved Peacekeeper may actually be built. Overall I don’t think Xan are much better or worse than they were before.

Zik
Zik was one of the strongest races. They will be affected the most by the change in production. They get more than handsomely compensated for this by further improving their ships. Zik will be one of the strongest races again next round.

Etd
Etd have seen the most changes. The Lancer has been slightly improved. The Culdassa Arrowhead has been made a Destroyer and renamed Vsharrak Destroyer. This is an improvement as it is a lot more effective in this role against Cath and Xan Co. Also offensively it can have more use. Finally it can also help flak the Cr when facing Cat Mantis.
The new Avenger will make Cr/Bs attacks against a range of races (all except Cat have Fr anti-Cr/Bs) more viable.
I doubt however that Etd will be a popular race. It is a pretty strong race though.

I think that if these stats don't change, many will go zik or the race that is best against zik.
Maybe I should go for the race that is best against the race that is best against Zik?
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Unread 31 May 2008, 11:28   #174
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie2
Maybe I should go for the race that is best against the race that is best against Zik?
Sadly, this is quite possibly Zik itself. Because if you're not Zik, you wont be able to keep up in terms of growth potential (read, wtfpwn) to stay in the top ranks - even if you can kill Ziks more efficiently as a (eg) Terran, they wont be able to grow fast enough to keep up, thus you might as well go as the winning race from the outset.
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Unread 31 May 2008, 12:37   #175
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Re: Stats Round 27

I was gonna go xan and focus on co, have had to rethink that strategy
Xan co for me is even less viable than last round with these changes.
I do feel that Xan FR\DE can do quite well again though if you whore bombers.

Zik is probably the best race for next round, and will surely be a popular choice.
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Unread 31 May 2008, 17:12   #176
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Re: Stats Round 27

now with half the universe going zik...what will our targets be ? not much cathaar left....
zik vs zik (scareh shit)
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Unread 31 May 2008, 17:17   #177
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
They get more than handsomely compensated for this by further improving their ships.
The only ship which has been significantly changed is the cutlass. I'm not quite sure what you're seeing that I didn't do.

Quote:
With BS/CR, the broadsword causes 200% more damage to an equally sized dragon fleet than the dragons cause to it*. With CR/BS the broadsword causes 19% more damage.
The broadsword isn't designed to operate in isolation.

Quote:
Against zik BS, an equal value broad vs rogue fleet*, the ziks cause 28% more damage than the etds if the 'sword targetting is BS/CR. If the broads are CR/BS targetting, then the ziks cause 113% more damage.
Have you looked at a 50/50 split in guardian/sword amounts?
Or considered the fact that defending against zik bs with broadswords was pretty retarded last round and really retarded this round when you've still got the lancer?

Quote:
Meanwhile, a chunk of unstunned swords will scare off caths and etd-etd is a game of chicken regardless of targetting order. So target order doesn't really affect CR defence whilst strongly affecting BS defence. Does the etd CR fleet need nerfing to empower ter/zik BS more?
Etd cr doesn't really operate in isolation.

Quote:
*assuming same # of wyverns as dragons, same # of fireblades and broads & same # of pirates as rogues for flak purposes.
Going off what I saw last round this largely wasn't true. Certainly ziks were almost always weighted towards pirates.
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Unread 31 May 2008, 18:50   #178
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0RPH3US
now with half the universe going zik...what will our targets be ? not much cathaar left....
zik vs zik (scareh shit)
21% cathaar atm, prolly will be 20%~~ at roundstart aswell. There will always be a high number of caths after they did so well last round. I expect alot of good players in top alliances to choose them atleast.
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Unread 31 May 2008, 20:24   #179
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The only ship which has been significantly changed is the cutlass. I'm not quite sure what you're seeing that I didn't do.
These are the changes I have:
Corsair EmpRes 50 --> 57
Cutlass Damage 18 --> 19, EmpRes 74 --> 77
Thief Armor 25 --> 26, EmpRes 82 --> 83
Marauder T2 Bs added
Rogue EmpRes 92 --> 93
Raider Armor 55 --> 58, EmpRes 93 --> 94
(The Galleon had its Damage reduced.)

Those are a lot of changes. And many of those are quite significant.

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Unread 31 May 2008, 21:09   #180
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Re: Stats Round 27

Personally i think once again xan are underrated, statwise they arnt fantastic and lets be honest a cath or zik will win the round.

Depends on the kind of round it is really, if roids are held or if it stagnates.

Xans cloaking is so underrated. You cant beat just launching an attack, even if the home planet covers it still makes people wonder what the **** you ahve launched.
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Unread 2 Jun 2008, 12:28   #181
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The only ship which has been significantly changed is the cutlass. I'm not quite sure what you're seeing that I didn't do.
Marauder BS t2, handy ship
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Unread 2 Jun 2008, 13:30   #182
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin]
Marauder BS t2, handy ship
It is certainly a more useful ship now but I don't think it represents any real change to the strength of zik. You're still going to build thieves versus zik bs and rogues/thieves combo makes more sense than maras versus terran bs. It gives zik a bit more room to be creative and improves the cr/bs attack fleet a bit but that's about as far as I'd go.

As regards the other changes to zik. The corsair received a slight upgrade to compensate for the fact the (specifically etd but overall as well) fr/de attack fleet on zik is now a lot better with the addition of the vsh. The thief is a response to the new etd cr/bs fleet. The rogue and raider changes are so zik bs is more viable against cath (which it really wasn't last round).
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Unread 2 Jun 2008, 13:41   #183
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Re: Stats Round 27

I m surprised and happy, that I get a new chance of playing zik with these awesome zik stats. zik is baaaadly overpowered again by the looks of it. ( dont change them ! )
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Unread 2 Jun 2008, 13:48   #184
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Re: Stats Round 27

I'm looking forward to your planet sucking and dying regardless.
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Unread 2 Jun 2008, 13:53   #185
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I'm looking forward to your planet sucking and dying regardless.
Ur not the only one :crymeariver:
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Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 2 Jun 2008, 14:55   #186
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Re: Stats Round 27

Maybe I should dedicate the round to stopping wishmaster from not sucking

On a more serious note I hope someone will seriously try out a pure fi\bs terran fleet and a etd de\cr\bs fleet to see if they are any good.
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Unread 2 Jun 2008, 18:19   #187
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
It is certainly a more useful ship now but I don't think it represents any real change to the strength of zik. You're still going to build thieves versus zik bs and rogues/thieves combo makes more sense than maras versus terran bs. It gives zik a bit more room to be creative and improves the cr/bs attack fleet a bit but that's about as far as I'd go.

As regards the other changes to zik. The corsair received a slight upgrade to compensate for the fact the (specifically etd but overall as well) fr/de attack fleet on zik is now a lot better with the addition of the vsh. The thief is a response to the new etd cr/bs fleet. The rogue and raider changes are so zik bs is more viable against cath (which it really wasn't last round).
Ziks were almost impossible to attack. They needed to be made easier to attack. I wonder why you seem to want to prevent that.
Furthermore when you change a ship this affects all other races. For some reason only Ziks get a compensation.
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Unread 2 Jun 2008, 22:02   #188
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie2
Ziks were almost impossible to attack. They needed to be made easier to attack.
The end rankings claim otherwise.
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 00:33   #189
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie2
Ziks were almost impossible to attack. They needed to be made easier to attack. I wonder why you seem to want to prevent that.
I'm avoiding over-compensating for the strength of zik last round. Too often what happens with stats design is that you just get retarded over-reactions because people don't realise how marginal the difference between a good and a bad race is. They are easier to attack, they just won't be too easy.
Quote:
Furthermore when you change a ship this affects all other races. For some reason only Ziks get a compensation.
In this case the two fleets most changed, etd fr which is now a lot better versus zik as fr/de and etd cr/bs, for which the same is also true, both affect zik the most. Other races are less affected by these changes. Your contention that changing any ship affects all other races while true ignores the fact that it affects each race to different extents. Clearly the strengthening or weakening of the tula affects, for example, fr/de xans a lot less than it would affect bs heavy terrans (amusingly this has reminded me that you thought cathaar were worse in r26 than in r25 before the round started, good stuff).
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 08:05   #190
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
The end rankings claim otherwise.
7 zik of the top 11.

32 in top100.

Ziks pwned last round, why bother denying it? They were close to impossible to attack last round, which was even pointed out preround. The changes made will make it a bit easier to attack zik, but I still think they are too tough a nut to crack
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 11:45   #191
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
7 zik of the top 11.

32 in top100.

Ziks pwned last round, why bother denying it? They were close to impossible to attack last round, which was even pointed out preround. The changes made will make it a bit easier to attack zik, but I still think they are too tough a nut to crack
If you subtract out the winning alliance or look, for example, at the t500 planets the numbers for zik were actually quite even. Frankly the more I've looked at it the more I think the over-representation of zik at the top was the fact that they were ascendancy planets who value whored intensively and well, avoided a lot of incs towards the start of the round and ended up as extremely hard targets to hit en masse. I'm not saying they were a shitty race or anything but I'd certainly be cautious about over-rating them.
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 12:05   #192
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Re: Stats Round 27

Most the top zik planets were asc, so thats why there are so many ziks in the top.

Ziks are hardly uberwtfpwn. Xan DE inc were a huge pain in the ass last round and is bound to be even worse this round seeing as asc isnt around to whore corsairs.
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 14:00   #193
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If you subtract out the winning alliance or look, for example, at the t500 planets the numbers for zik were actually quite even. Frankly the more I've looked at it the more I think the over-representation of zik at the top was the fact that they were ascendancy planets who value whored intensively and well, avoided a lot of incs towards the start of the round and ended up as extremely hard targets to hit en masse. I'm not saying they were a shitty race or anything but I'd certainly be cautious about over-rating them.
can turn it around and ask why asc won.
Was it because most went zik? I think so. no offence!!
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 14:25   #194
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Re: Stats Round 27

I honestly think asc would wave done just aswell if we had gone all xan.

As a big player its probably easier to be zik than xan, but medium sized planets tend to be better off as xans, assuming they have the right fleetcomposition.
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 14:33   #195
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
can turn it around and ask why asc won.
Was it because most went zik? I think so. no offence!!
No. We won because we had a bunch of big planets in big gals that didn't get hit early that built 60+ fcs and we actually had like 50 odd planets properly play the round as opposed to 30. Ignoring any political/military aspect involved. It's actually quite easy to look at the rankings without the asc ziks included and see that zik really weren't that good.

Obviously we can claim many things but without viable proof to back them up your statement is as retarded as saying denial didn't win because they lacked big terrans.

To take out ascendancy's top planets from the t100 you've got 78 planets left, of those 16 are zik, which leaves 20.5% of the non-asc t100 planets being zik, the number which is precisely in line with their actual overall representation and their t500 representation. If you go to the overall t100 non-asc planets you have 19 out of 100, a figure below their overall racial representation.
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 17:22   #196
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
No. We won because we had a bunch of big planets in big gals that didn't get hit early that built 60+ fcs and we actually had like 50 odd planets properly play the round as opposed to 30. Ignoring any political/military aspect involved. It's actually quite easy to look at the rankings without the asc ziks included and see that zik really weren't that good.
u didnt get hit early on because ziks were close to impossible to roid unless u used teamups. there were better and easier targets for easy roiding to start with.
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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Obviously we can claim many things but without viable proof to back them up your statement is as retarded as saying denial didn't win because they lacked big terrans.
Do you really believe you could have won last round if u guys werent zik?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
To take out ascendancy's top planets from the t100 you've got 78 planets left, of those 16 are zik, which leaves 20.5% of the non-asc t100 planets being zik, the number which is precisely in line with their actual overall representation and their t500 representation. If you go to the overall t100 non-asc planets you have 19 out of 100, a figure below their overall racial representation.
You cant just remove a given number of planets and say; Hey, the stats were balanced!
That being said, if u guys had gone all xans there would have been a large number of xans in the top100. Ofc race choice by most of the best palyers decides what races will end up in top 100.
If we had allowed only ASS, Fcrew etc to go zik and all of them did so, I doubt we would have many, if any, ziks in top spots.
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 18:12   #197
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Re: Stats Round 27

Yes we could have won without all going zik, all xan wuld have been just as good.
Zik being unroidable at first is just not right, alot of us got roided early on by xan de and co teamattacks among others.
The whole point with zik is that it takes time to build up your value but once you get your value high enough your very hard to roid(but somehow i think you know that ).
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 19:05   #198
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Re: Stats Round 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
u didnt get hit early on because ziks were close to impossible to roid unless u used teamups. there were better and easier targets for easy roiding to start with.
Pretty much all of us got roided early on. And by all I mean 100%.

Quote:
Do you really believe you could have won last round if u guys werent zik?
I think the all zik approach certainly helped in terms of providing us all with a quick easy def-ship that we had to build and was almost always useful so it became pretty easy to get people to defend which always requires a bit of effort in ascendancy to kick off. That said if we'd gone all xan the bomber probably would have ended up doing pretty much the same thing.


Quote:
You cant just remove a given number of planets and say; Hey, the stats were balanced!
I'm removing an alliance which chose to go almost all zikonian and hence, if you believe in player quality at all in any sense, had to unbalance the stats. If zikonian really were that good why do they appear so, well, average, if you removed the ascendancy planets?

Quote:
That being said, if u guys had gone all xans there would have been a large number of xans in the top100. Ofc race choice by most of the best palyers decides what races will end up in top 100.
If we had allowed only ASS, Fcrew etc to go zik and all of them did so, I doubt we would have many, if any, ziks in top spots.
if they had I'd be perfectly willing to discount them and talk about the rest of the universe.
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 20:12   #199
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Re: Stats Round 27

I'm not sure that i agree with the idea of using some arbitrary measure to cut the final rankings by race as a principle. I think its bad statistics.

Sure, the winning alliance's race was over represented in the top rankings. But the top 500 wasnt overly disproportionate. What happened to rounds like R12 when Cathaar dominated the top ranks and 1up won? Was Cathaar deemed to be overpowered because many of the top players went it, or because they became top ranked players because of it, or was it just due to politics (with stagnant rounds helping cathaar)? Either way, when Cathaar was nerfed a bit for R13, they got smashed in a severe fashion.

I'm not saying that its good to remove the asc ziks from the considerations and say "well that was an abberation". But i'm definitely not comfortable with the notion that just because 100% of your alliance members lost roids early on didnt mean that being Zik couldnt help your chances. They dont follow unless a race is massively wtfpwn such that they cannot be roided even at the start of the round. Which, i think, is immediately apparent with the stats.

Without having actually played the round, nor intending to have a planet this round, my observations based on other comments on the forums would indicate that Zik was probably the strongest race, even without the asc bias. If that's true, justifying positive changes towards zik is more difficult to justify. Though the changes that have been made make zik easier to attack (apparently), i still think ignoring a certain (large) group and calling them all an outlier is bad methodology.
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Unread 3 Jun 2008, 20:43   #200
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Re: Stats Round 27

Stats wise ziks might have been the strongest, but considering xans are cloaked i wouldnt say ziks was the best race necessarily..
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