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Unread 24 Apr 2010, 12:06   #251
Heartless
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
DLR was founded on roiding nubs and sleep at night (american time).
Apprime proved this for real in r34 by hitting them 0800 gametime and rape the shit out of them, because the precious primadonnas needed their beautysleep.

This round they finally get targetted all round, so maybe they learn how its like to be in a war and can come back stronger next round.
Nothing wrong with sleeping at night, we used to do that a lot in Ascendancy, too. At least in the early rounds.
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Unread 24 Apr 2010, 12:42   #252
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Re: donation whores

It's more about avaliability than activity.
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Unread 24 Apr 2010, 12:49   #253
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onim View Post
If this is what you mean by organisation
I don't.

What I mean by organisation is that an alliance has the willingness to be discipined, to adhere to an alliance-wide strategy. Whether this strategy is defined by one central HC or by some form of consensus decision making is not really important. What is important is that everyone or nearly everyone has to be willing to stick to it.

To take a fairly basic example, if you have an approximately equal number of each race in your alliance, and an equal value in ships in each superclass (fi/co, fr/de, cr/bs), then you're not going to be as effective as an alliance with two races and mostly ships in one superclass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onim View Post
Activity is still what drives an alliance. Yes, a good strategy thought out at roundstart is important, but one can have the best strategy but lack of the ppl who can live up to whats expected, and organisation breaks apart. Not due to how its organised, but due to the memberbase as a whole.
Agreed. This is also why I disagreed with your earlier post, by the way. For all the benefits less active players now get (prelaunch, hidden base fleet, value based capping, XP), there are still many areas in which hardcore players have a huge advantage. Think for example about launch-recall-relaunch, being texted when you can recall defence, when you're under attack or when you're about to crash, getting intel about an attack in advance and arranging prelaunched defence. While it is certainly possible to less active players to survive nowadays, winning still requires a lot of activity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onim View Post
The game mechanics of rewarding lower activity means that alliances' organisation breaks apart more easily.
I'm not sure I agree with that. We don't have nearly as many one-round wonders as we did in the late 20s. Similarly, I'm not seeing that many alliances getting literally torn apart mid-round, which is something else we have definitely seen in earlier rounds (Furious Omen, anyone?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onim View Post
The alliances that become victorious are the ones with the most active memberbase, combined with experience in how to play. However, sad thing is, this fact does not lead to more activity among players. No, it actually makes the gap between the winning alliances and the losing ones even bigger.

So no, i do not agree with you that organisation has become so much more important. Alliance like CT and ND have had their round wins without organisation like (i think) u mean (preround strategy in fleetcomposition , race choice, how ppl are to be distributed in galaxys etc) Joy, activity, momentum and politics make more difference.
I don't think activity has become more important in recent rounds than it's always been. However, as you correctly point out, CT and ND have won rounds without being organised in the fashion Apprime and Ascendancy are now. Surely that is a clear indication that organisation has in fact become more important?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie View Post
It's more about avaliability than activity.
Agreed. That definitely has changed, in Ascendancy at least, we're much better at getting people online nowadays.
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Unread 24 Apr 2010, 16:59   #254
Knight Theamion
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onim View Post
and to get back to topic: i dont mind ppl trying to look to exploit rules, this is quite a good example of an attempt which failed to take the expected / hoped for advantage, other attempts have been more successfull (first round of xp exploit) , it reminds the admin to keep thinking of game mechanics.
http://www.sandmans.co.uk/graph.php?...ank&large=true

http://www.sandmans.co.uk/graph.php?...lue&large=true
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Unread 24 Apr 2010, 19:10   #255
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Re: donation whores

Ninth is hardly spectacular.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 24 Apr 2010, 21:13   #256
Knight Theamion
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Ninth is hardly spectacular.
http://sandmans.co.uk/?p=searchgalax...t=Submit+Query
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Unread 24 Apr 2010, 21:33   #257
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Re: donation whores

Not particularly relevant.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 3 May 2010, 23:43   #258
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Re: donation whores

and the supporters who quit or will have a shit round after donating? i see 2 others in top 10 besides BA and 4 in top 20 those donation whores are SHIT!

AND YES... HOLY THREAD REVIVAL BATMAN
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Unread 4 May 2010, 21:42   #259
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Re: donation whores

this is why i dont read/post on these forums too often

stop whining and learn to play :/
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Unread 10 May 2010, 13:01   #260
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Re: donation whores

So Appocco, will the donation of startup bonus still be possible in r37 ?
The sooner we get the answer, the sooner we can plan. Like having 7 friends signing up just to give me their bonuses then exile in a random gal... sounds like fun.
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Unread 10 May 2010, 13:22   #261
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Re: donation whores

u mad?
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Unread 10 May 2010, 17:10   #262
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
So Appocco, will the donation of startup bonus still be possible in r37 ?
The sooner we get the answer, the sooner we can plan. Like having 7 friends signing up just to give me their bonuses then exile in a random gal... sounds like fun.
You do realize no good planet survived for long in a random galaxy? Randoms are for cultivating tons of weak planets that are outside the bash limit of the really big fish, thus allowing them to go largely unopposed and take a token victory without any real merit.
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Unread 10 May 2010, 20:14   #263
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Re: donation whores

I think it would be worth the fun of the first few weeks.
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Unread 10 May 2010, 21:41   #264
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu View Post
You do realize no good planet survived for long in a random galaxy? Randoms are for cultivating tons of weak planets that are outside the bash limit of the really big fish, thus allowing them to go largely unopposed and take a token victory without any real merit.
If more players try this tactic, or if more players attempt to congregate in random gals this round it might actually be troublesome.

But see Makhill there's a difference between what 10:4 did and what you're talking about doing. One is obviously using support planets and the other isn't. There's no hard and fast rule, it's about common sense and even though the MH, when I played at least, had very little - it doesn't require much common sense to see the difference.
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Unread 10 May 2010, 22:12   #265
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
But see Makhill there's a difference between what 10:4 did and what you're talking about doing. One is obviously using support planets and the other isn't. There's no hard and fast rule, it's about common sense and even though the MH, when I played at least, had very little - it doesn't require much common sense to see the difference.
Stay in the galaxy for afew days, then get them to exile you out as you had a disagreement. Its too late to take the donations back, the support planets may be closed but the planet which was donated to hasnt done anything wrong.. so wouldnt be closed.
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Unread 10 May 2010, 22:43   #266
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
So Appocco, will the donation of startup bonus still be possible in r37 ?
The sooner we get the answer, the sooner we can plan. Like having 7 friends signing up just to give me their bonuses then exile in a random gal... sounds like fun.
There is really little to no difference between having someone initiate to 500 with the bonus and earn it back by tick 36 or having them donate the startup bonus at that time, at least not from the perspective of a support planet that doesn't care about getting roided. So this whine about using the start up bonus has to stop. If you feel up to the task of getting such donations, by all means try it. It was part of a larger strategic plan in our galaxy, but I've seen no indication of any tighter restrictions coming up to make "donate and quit" illegal.
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Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)

Those damn emp races..
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Unread 10 May 2010, 22:57   #267
Mzyxptlk
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_ View Post
But see Makhill there's a difference between what 10:4 did and what you're talking about doing. One is obviously using support planets and the other isn't. There's no hard and fast rule, it's about common sense and even though the MH, when I played at least, had very little - it doesn't require much common sense to see the difference.
I wouldn't call it "obviously" using support planets. I can't say I have much of a problem with it.
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Unread 10 May 2010, 23:16   #268
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
Londo pretty much summed it up. Some players noticed the maximum donation limit was 50 million and aimed to get it done asap. If the galaxy planets reset, they leave the galaxy.
They've sacrificed their planets and are relying on being Xans; the 1 Terran in no way can cover them.

The 1 Terran can also in no way get any large amounts of xp or anything more than minimum cap. He can't hit many more than the top 30-50 planets, if that. I think he's going to struggle to get roids whilst others stockpile them.

Whilst the MH have the final say, I'm actually interested to see if he finishes top 10 this round. I'm not sure he will.

Edit: Also, any attackers stealing his roids will get pretty high xp and so catch him up more quickly
Well, in the end he did finish top10, despite crashing in the middle of the round. 2 of his "support planets" finished ahead of him though. All your other predictions came through, he went semi-inactive due to never being able to land for roids I do wonder what would have happened if he hadn't been roided by an excessum retal while he was top10 in roids, it's quite possible he could have won the round.. even with shit xp

Anyway, it was a fun and new experience for us, like zawze pointed out on page 1 other galaxies have done things like this before, in a greater scale even but few people noticed. I think now everyone noticed. I never thought it would turn to be as good as it did, and I don't think it would be as effective if we had gone other races than we did.. Mostly we just got lucky with the right combination of being unselfish enough to have shit fleets for attacking all round and still being active enough to use them when it mattered. Covering 35 fi/co fleets with 5 in gal de fleets weas definitely a highlight and ofc someone willing to put in great effort to make everyone else better by donating all score away.

Shaz actually started way late on roiding 1:1, simply because she was away on holiday and didn't want to sit on some large amount of roids draining our def. Kinda scary where she could have ended if she started roiding 3 weeks earlier.. heh. I'd be excited to see how another gal would do with this tactic, so I really hope someone will at least try it next round

Much love from all of 10:4

#1 Theam 12th (2 donations received)
#2 signs 15th (3 donations received)
#3 Bluearmy 5th (2 donations received)
#4 Trunks 18th (3 donations received)
#5 Golan 3rd (2 donations received)
#6 Shadowcat 4th (1 donation received)
#7 anders 43rd (4? donations recieved)
#8 shaz 276th (0 donations recieved and most active in gal)

<3
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Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)

Those damn emp races..

Last edited by Zotnam; 10 May 2010 at 23:26.
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Unread 10 May 2010, 23:19   #269
Knight Theamion
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Re: donation whores

6 out of 8 top 20, all planets who started 'playing' instead of cov-opping top 100. All top 100 size.

:win:


edit: i see golan and i posted double. i only posted the summary. would still love to see another group try it though. especially with single targetting!
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Unread 11 May 2010, 01:45   #270
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Re: donation whores

In my opinion had he got a better init race he would have faired alot better, and I believe capping roids wouldnt have been an issue for him. It was a shame roiding BA though!
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Unread 11 May 2010, 02:40   #271
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki View Post
In my opinion had he got a better init race he would have faired alot better, and I believe capping roids wouldnt have been an issue for him. It was a shame roiding BA though!
I pm'd him right after and said his racechoice was ****ing horrid. Although my argument was more about choosing god damn terr de. He could have at least gone for zik and gotten silly steals during the time when he wasn't able to actually roid anyone.
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Unread 11 May 2010, 04:22   #272
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki View Post
In my opinion had he got a better init race he would have faired alot better, and I believe capping roids wouldnt have been an issue for him. It was a shame roiding BA though!
Nah, him being ter DE was clearly the best and only choice we could have made at that stage. Picking Terran/tot was essential as it was by far and away the best value combo and DE was the only sound choice to avoid XP incoming. Remember, the xans had next to no ships the first few days so he needed to survive on his own and harpy would have been slaughtered by xan inc. The only other race we considered was ETD, but we decided to go for the most defensive option.

He should however not have spent the entire donation straight away, and roided with pods the first night (the first night out of protection he actually got roided by some random 1 fleet inc when no-one had ships). Roids wouldn't have been a problem if he could have hit players the first two nights instead of just defending or if we had been able to find a stable etd de player to team with him.. He was naturally going BS anyway as the xans got CR, not that he did much better roiding with that than DE Zik would never have fitted in our gal as the supporting planets HAD to be xan.
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Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)

Those damn emp races..
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Unread 11 May 2010, 11:29   #273
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Re: donation whores

Actually looking back on it, by playing like this, we played much more like a team then I did in gals in the previous 6 rounds or so. Because we were forced to adapt our fleets to eachother (mainly being mirrors of eachother in Xan terms, but still)
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Unread 11 May 2010, 11:59   #274
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Re: donation whores

Thinking about it, this tactic may probably fail hard this round. As its Single Targetting, the galaxy will need to fill the gaps early in the round or the planet will have to spread his ships making him less effective in attacking anyway.

With single targetting, his got to build 6 ships and if he gets roided early on.. He's pretty much screwed.
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Unread 11 May 2010, 14:05   #275
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Re: donation whores

which is why you should totally do this next round, Light.
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Unread 13 May 2010, 03:30   #276
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Re: donation whores

Going here when I can't sleep always seems to help - I made it to page 3 before I started nodding off.

Anyway, I'll liken this to an experience I had when I played through Dragon Age: Origins on Nightmare simultaneously with a friend of mine.

Basically there's a couple of fights that are reasonably difficult if you approach them wrong, but there are several good approaches to them. My friend called me a cheater for something I did, which was basically to fight a dragon without a tank because it took me about 10 seconds to realize that it never moved and would just always spit fire at whoever it hated the most when no one is in melee range.

Strategy: Dress high-dps mage in fire resistance gear, use a fire resistance potion, and have 4 ranged party members nuking the dragon for however long it takes without ever taking any real damage. I certainly felt like I cheesed the fight, but it was the most clever way of beating it.

Similarly I killed possibly the hardest boss in the game by combining Affliction Hex, Spell Might and Mana Clash which resulted in taking off something like 70% of its health and forcing it into its second phase within the first 3 seconds of engaging it.

And you know, executing those things wasn't that fun - what made the game for me was the feeling I had when I came up with it, especially the whole attempt to kill a boss in 3 seconds (I nearly did it too). It's the same reason why I enjoy things like project euler, I love seeing different ways of attacking problems (And I'm enough of an idiot to have played through Dragon Age 3-4 times by now and done all the fights in many different ways).

What I like about this strategy as opposed to what Greenhills did in round 21 is that other people can counter this. That makes it fair in my eyes.
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