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Unread 26 Mar 2010, 00:54   #151
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Re: donation whores

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As to whether any rules were broken, that would be for the Admin team to decide, the MH team enforce the rules not make them.
eh?
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Unread 27 Mar 2010, 02:59   #152
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Re: donation whores

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The point was you failed to see it coming, and didn't implement it now you have missed the boat.
We'll see if the "feature" goes on next round... I would never ask my gal to donate me their startup bonuses so I could feel like I'm a good player. It's a mentality thing about something called fairplay... coz in "wargame" the important part is "game".

No more nipples to hunt, you're bored ? How sad...
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Unread 27 Mar 2010, 04:00   #153
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Re: donation whores

You did not read correctly. BlueArmy never asked for the start-up bonus. It was decided that someone would get donated to #1 (or whatever rank they wished) and after a long wait and without finding someone really keen to do it, BlueArmy sacrificed himself and said 'well okay, i'll do it then'.

And that gal just donated someone into top 40 value. Stupid Ruiners!
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Last edited by Knight Theamion; 27 Mar 2010 at 04:05. Reason: stupid ruiners
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Unread 29 Mar 2010, 15:23   #154
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
We'll see if the "feature" goes on next round... I would never ask my gal to donate me their startup bonuses so I could feel like I'm a good player. It's a mentality thing about something called fairplay... coz in "wargame" the important part is "game".

No more nipples to hunt, you're bored ? How sad...
ah yes, I felt like I badly needed some donations to be an awesome PA player. My trackrecord speaks for itself, and all the emo I've gotten this round over this donation crap amuses me non stop though.. Strange thing is that there has actually been more people with 'kudoses' than whining bitches, I suppose the couple of crybabies on the forum (light/makhil) don't represent the general view of the community after all..

And a sidenote, I wont win this round. And that was never intended either. I'll be leading for another week probably and then its over..
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Unread 29 Mar 2010, 16:15   #155
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Re: donation whores

Its something i would consider doing myself if i played this round, just because its possible and outside the box

This is hardly anything new, it has been possible (and taken advantage of) for several rounds, though this round is the first time we have seen it so organized :P
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Unread 29 Mar 2010, 19:18   #156
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Re: donation whores

There's nothing quite as much out of the box as copying someone else!
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 00:26   #157
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post

No more nipples to hunt, you're bored ? How sad...
Buy a new record player the needle is stuck on that one.

Whether the strategy they employed works has yet to be revealed, and for the record I find it amusing, the best fun I have seen in ages.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 06:59   #158
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by BlueArmy View Post
And a sidenote, I wont win this round. And that was never intended either. I'll be leading for another week probably and then its over..
Will that be because of a lack of effort or do you feel the strategy isn't good enough for it?
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 10:22   #159
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Re: donation whores

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I suppose the couple of crybabies on the forum (light/makhil) don't represent the general view of the community after all.
Typically these are the people who want the game to be played "so fair" that they actually have a chance to score high on it one day. In fact, I'm certain some people would be happy if we just sat down pre-round and discussed who gets to win and who gets to lose, and just drew the end table by that and auto-assigned some script to take care of the inevitable numbers.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 10:29   #160
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Re: donation whores

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Will that be because of a lack of effort or do you feel the strategy isn't good enough for it?
a bit of both i suppose.. if we wanted the donation planet to win it should have been done a bit different. so that the target planet had more roids at the start, perhaps more escorts available in gal, or some ETD to team with for defenders.. there's a lot of flaws to the strategy we decided upon, but atleast we did something different.. if they dont change it for next round we'll see a lot of people trying the same sort of strategy but with different approaches.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 10:32   #161
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Re: donation whores

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a bit of both i suppose.. if we wanted the donation planet to win it should have been done a bit different. so that the target planet had more roids at the start, perhaps more escorts available in gal, or some ETD to team with for defenders.. there's a lot of flaws to the strategy we decided upon, but atleast we did something different.. if they dont change it for next round we'll see a lot of people trying the same sort of strategy but with more optimized approaches.
Fixed.
I am thinking of the donations spread out over two planets (this round etd de/terran de) and not building up at once but gradually.
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Last edited by Knight Theamion; 30 Mar 2010 at 10:41.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 11:18   #162
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by BlueArmy View Post
I suppose the couple of crybabies on the forum (light/makhil) don't represent the general view of the community after all..
I don't think the forums represent anything about the community (sadly). Yes it's true, I believe that a little bit of fairness at round start would allow more players to have a go at the top spots (and be interested in playing)... is that so bad ?
For me you're a cheater, you can come up with all kind of justifications, it won't change (I guess for you I'm a whiner and nothing i could say could change it either). We don't have the same mentality about playing games that's all.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 12:10   #163
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
I believe that a little bit of fairness at round start would allow more players to have a go at the top spots (and be interested in playing)... is that so bad?
How noble of you.

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For me you're a cheater, you can come up with all kind of justifications, it won't change
If a cheater is defined as per a person who the administrator chooses has broken the game rules, then, most players are cheaters. We can find a round where a multihunter (like Assassin) has decided something completely haywired, extrapolate it a little, and wind up with the fact that at some point everyone's been a cheater due to abuse of the fabled support planet rule. At best, this incident should teach to finally abolish that piece of rules the person named came up with simply to use his power attack a party playing the game he disliked in favour of his friends - because that's why the rule was implemented, nothing more, nothing less, and ever since it's been abused to call out cheats on more or less irrational logic.

Quote:
We don't have the same mentality about playing games that's all.
Games aren't so different from real life as per analogy. Competition tends to encourage parties involved to come up with new, creative tactics to beat their opposition. If we strive to destroy anything that might create a new idea, we'll be stuck in the same status quo ad infinium, and perhaps, Makhil, in round 139, when you're the only player playing the game it has been for a hundred and twenty rounds (emphasis), you've got a fair chance of winning.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 12:21   #164
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Re: donation whores

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and perhaps, Makhil, in round 139, when you're the only player playing the game it has been for a hundred and twenty rounds (emphasis), you've got a fair chance of winning.
The other way would be for people to stop looking for ways to abuse the rules coz it is obvious that donations where not created for what has been done in that case. It is the accumulation of changes over the rounds that lead to that hole, I'm now only interested in seeing if PA team will rule that it is an unfair advantage and remove the possibility for next round or will consider it a valid feature, in which case r37 will not be a round I'll want to play.

As Bluearmy being a leet player I have my doubts, he's the one launching (and crashing) fakes at people with inc scans...
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 12:47   #165
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Re: donation whores

Just a question makhil, are you also crying because people team up emp ships with others building lots of low init killing ships? (pretty hard to defend against)

Do you also think that Asc going almost 100% xan and exiling around to create xan fortresses was cheating?

Do you think that using one planet in a gal who dedicates itself to cov-opping, donating the rest away and donating it to planets under the gal average to build out of incs during the first weeks cheating?

I am just curious, because if I were you, life would be a lot more easy if you adopt 'If the game mechanics allow it, it is possible'.

To use some highly flawed analogy. Back when I played a lot of Red Alert 2 there were a few things I often did. One was using paratroopers to land at some weird spot where they would occasionally kill, but never be in the main line of approach to my base. I did this untill they were promoted enough to self heal and put them as main defence and added 'free' paratroopers to them. They were protected by the veterans and also upgraded rather fast. This in turn made me almost impossible to attack by land. After that it was just building up some anti air and building in some remote corner a massive army that would wipe away all my opponents at once. Is this also cheating because I 'abused' the promoting/upgrading system?
Another example would be fortressing myself in my base, having some oil refineries so I wouldn't be reliant on harvesters and then just only attack the enemies harvesters/miners and killing of his small start waves at me until he ran out of money. Then almost tickling him to death without incurring much losses.
I just wonder when you would say I am 'cheating' at Red Alert 2 when I use various tactics......
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 12:56   #166
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Re: donation whores

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[...] I'm now only interested in seeing if PA team will rule that it is an unfair advantage and remove the possibility for next round or will consider it a valid feature, in which case r37 will not be a round I'll want to play.
Hey, keep on restricting the game to offer room for even less creativity and you make sure that I will never ever play again. So PA might lose you but they may get me back. ;-)
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 15:15   #167
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Re: donation whores

Since we are sharing cheat stories. I knife the sentry guns from behind in Modern Warfare 2, instead of facing the superior firepower with grenades and bullets. I just could not stop abusing the game mechanics once i started!
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 16:08   #168
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Re: donation whores

Funny you should mention MW2. I do believe they've had a fair few patches that nerfed some setups. Akimbo shotty, anyone?
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 17:29   #169
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Re: donation whores

I don' t think having strategies is cheating. I don't think spending the resources you earn along the round the way you want is cheating. I do think using the startup bonuses of your gal mates is cheating with the spirit of fairness that should prevail at round start. Startup bonus was introduced to compensate for the shorter protection time I think it shouldn't be possible to donate it. I believe that an average player would gain a too great advantage out of it. I believe that the only reason why this donation was allowed is because PA Team didn't see the possible abuse (I may be wrong).

Now PA team will decide for next round, and I'm eager to see what they'll choose. At least I've voiced my opinion, I wont whine about the outcome.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 17:34   #170
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Re: donation whores

but if the galm8 WANTS to donate it then how is it cheating? that's how he choses to spend his resources.

also pateam has already said that this is not cheating so this is all in your opinion, and not many people share it.
most likely BA's boost has not affected your planet at all. unless you're in the top 10 (well perhaps top 20) then it really has no effect on you. so why complain that it's unfair? especially when it's already been established that he won't win the round with it.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 17:41   #171
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Re: donation whores

If not many people in this thread share my opinion, a lot do on IRC... cheater being a weak word compared to what I read.
What matters is not what PA team says about it now (because they just can't undo it) but what they'll do next round, only then we will know what they really think.
BA's action has affected every planet he attacked/roided with his massive DE fleet, they have the right to feel cheated. That he may not be capable of using this advantage to win the round is another matter.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 17:54   #172
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Re: donation whores

The losing side always finds something to complain about. Adjust instead of whine please
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 18:01   #173
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Re: donation whores

actually what they do next round won't really tell us what pateam think about it. if they change it, it might not be because they think it's a cheat, but ultimately they need to figure out how to keep their playerbase for next round. from a business point of view if people will leave because it's not changed, they'll have to change it.
people complain about pa round after round that they want things different, but it's stuff like this that makes it stagnant. they might have to code it out to keep a few players happy, and the rest of us will play on as if nothing really changed.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 18:13   #174
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Re: donation whores

How is it different from donating all your resources that you mined on your own at pt72?
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 18:16   #175
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn View Post
actually what they do next round won't really tell us what pateam think about it. if they change it, it might not be because they think it's a cheat, but ultimately they need to figure out how to keep their playerbase for next round. from a business point of view if people will leave because it's not changed, they'll have to change it.
people complain about pa round after round that they want things different, but it's stuff like this that makes it stagnant. they might have to code it out to keep a few players happy, and the rest of us will play on as if nothing really changed.
Every time someone comes up with a new approach to this game, they make it stagnant? Also it looks like most people like the stunt, it's just the same few people whining over and over.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 18:26   #176
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
Startup bonus was introduced to compensate for the shorter protection time I think it shouldn't be possible to donate it. I believe that an average player would gain a too great advantage out of it.
I think not. And you can't be sure either until someone does it with success.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 18:54   #177
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Re: donation whores

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As Bluearmy being a leet player I have my doubts, he's the one launching (and crashing) fakes at people with inc scans...
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 20:54   #178
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Re: donation whores

It's amusing that people are upset about this strategy when there are so many ways to counter it!
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 22:21   #179
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Re: donation whores

People aren't interested in the part where the tactic can be worked against, I mean, in the end, it does mean you're sacrificing some growth in order to obtain growth elsewhere. Apart from the investment returns, it's still a zero-sum game to play.

The reason why it's causing so much whine is because it's provoking the pile of dirt they call support planet rule - whilst it, arguably, isn't even breaking, since, people are actually playing the planets, and they're simply pooling resources to work around allocation.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 22:55   #180
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Re: donation whores

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Originally Posted by Makhil View Post
If not many people in this thread share my opinion, a lot do on IRC... cheater being a weak word compared to what I read.
What? I assume this is just hyperbole but what the **** did they actually call him?
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 23:16   #181
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn View Post
but if the galm8 WANTS to donate it then how is it cheating? that's how he choses to spend his resources.
Again by that logic, we should be able to donate our roids to someone and also donate our ships to someone (a zik) but thats currently not allowed. No its not cheating as it hasnt broke the rules but that does not mean nor imply that the rule shouldnt be in there, just that the PA Team didnt think about it.

Quote:
also pateam has already said that this is not cheating so this is all in your opinion, and not many people share it.
We've discussed this quiet alot in vision channels and hardly anyone (if anyone) has said they like the idea of donations and most regard it as unfair. We can all say 'not many' or 'the majority'.

Quote:
most likely BA's boost has not affected your planet at all. unless you're in the top 10 (well perhaps top 20) then it really has no effect on you. so why complain that it's unfair? especially when it's already been established that he won't win the round with it.
Does it matter if its affected someones planet rank or not? That has no bearing on weither its balanced or fair or should be allowed in the game. You even had to correct it that it has likely directly affected the other top10/20 planets.

Also, what does 'he wont win the round with it' mean? that doesnt have any real meaning, there are very few if any events or exploits you could do at the start of the round to ensure a round victory. It only matters if he has got an unfair advantage from it which he has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn View Post
actually what they do next round won't really tell us what pateam think about it. if they change it, it might not be because they think it's a cheat, but ultimately they need to figure out how to keep their playerbase for next round. from a business point of view if people will leave because it's not changed, they'll have to change it.
people complain about pa round after round that they want things different, but it's stuff like this that makes it stagnant. they might have to code it out to keep a few players happy, and the rest of us will play on as if nothing really changed.
It does give us an insight into how they want planetarion to be. If the PA Team fully intended donations to be used to get someone to #1 rank and double the value of the #2 rank, then they'll keep it in especially if they think its balanced.

Actually its lack of proper changes and just constant formula tweaks which makes PA Stagnant. I dont regard this as a change, its just an unforseen consequence of private galaxys where the loophole will be fixed for next round (more than likely).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkie View Post
How is it different from donating all your resources that you mined on your own at pt72?
Its not and that shouldnt be allowed or at least it shouldnt be allowed to do it in such volume to propel someone to #1. As ive said before, donations should only be available to planets below the average galaxy score.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
Every time someone comes up with a new approach to this game, they make it stagnant? Also it looks like most people like the stunt, it's just the same few people whining over and over.
Thats bcus this forum is Asc + 3-4 other posters. Most people ive spoken to have said they dont like it.
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 23:53   #182
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Re: donation whores

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What? I assume this is just hyperbole but what the **** did they actually call him?
The second coming of Michael Jackson?
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Unread 30 Mar 2010, 23:59   #183
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Again by that logic, we should be able to donate our roids to someone and also donate our ships to someone (a zik) but thats currently not allowed. No its not cheating as it hasnt broke the rules but that does not mean nor imply that the rule shouldnt be in there, just that the PA Team didnt think about it.
How can you donate your roids or ship to someone in your own gal? The only way to do that you have to break the rules that we have. Donating resources to a gal fund and back to a player is however not mentioned anywhere in the rules and is therefor a legal strategy and more people are actually using this approach this round. Look at all the planets that have received donations that are in the top 50/100 right now.

And for ALMIGHTY VISION discussing it in their channel and saying its 'oh so bad'. Strange we havent heard a single complaint or it even being mentioned from you or your brethrens that the second big donation was to a vision planet, however he's barely in the top 50 with his 600 or so roids. So its only bad if the planet that receives the donation can get roids and stay in the top? If the planet that receives the donation just waste it and drop in ranks after a few days its A OK ?
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 00:11   #184
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Re: donation whores

all the whine about the "support planets"... i bet all those "support" planets got more roid/score/value than this whiners... thank god WE AREN'T PLAYING(IM A SUPPORTER )
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 00:34   #185
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Again by that logic, we should be able to donate our roids to someone and also donate our ships to someone (a zik) but thats currently not allowed. No its not cheating as it hasnt broke the rules but that does not mean nor imply that the rule shouldnt be in there, just that the PA Team didnt think about it.
It could also mean PA team thought about it and decided to leave it as it is.

Quote:
We've discussed this quiet alot in vision channels and hardly anyone (if anyone) has said they like the idea of donations and most regard it as unfair. We can all say 'not many' or 'the majority'.
I´ve spoken to quite some people about it and they all said it is a fun idea and they can´t see anything unfair about it. What´s your point?

Quote:
Does it matter if its affected someones planet rank or not? That has no bearing on weither its balanced or fair or should be allowed in the game. You even had to correct it that it has likely directly affected the other top10/20 planets.
It does not matter. I got roided by a teamup on the 2nd day. It affected my planet rank, and I found it quite unfair other people did not get roided.
I think we should limit roiding in the first week to one free land per planet so everyone gets a fair share of roids.

Quote:
Also, what does 'he wont win the round with it' mean? that doesnt have any real meaning, there are very few if any events or exploits you could do at the start of the round to ensure a round victory. It only matters if he has got an unfair advantage from it which he has.
Repeatedly saying he got an unfair advantage doesn´t make this more true.

Quote:
It does give us an insight into how they want planetarion to be. If the PA Team fully intended donations to be used to get someone to #1 rank and double the value of the #2 rank, then they'll keep it in especially if they think its balanced.
Actually its lack of proper changes and just constant formula tweaks which makes PA Stagnant. I dont regard this as a change, its just an unforseen consequence of private galaxys where the loophole will be fixed for next round (more than likely).
As a rough guess I´d estimate PA team is likely to listen to the whiners. I think I mentioned examples for this earlier in this thread. If you cry enough, you usually get something banned. PA team don´t want to upset people, and those who come up with those "irregular" strategies usually giggle when you try to have one banned and think about the next. It´s a fairly easy way for PA team to make you shut up and pretend things in your little world are allright.

Quote:
Its not and that shouldnt be allowed or at least it shouldnt be allowed to do it in such volume to propel someone to #1. As ive said before, donations should only be available to planets below the average galaxy score.
Are you aware donations from the gal fund are limited to planets below average score?

Quote:
Thats bcus this forum is Asc + 3-4 other posters. Most people ive spoken to have said they dont like it.
See above, all people I´ve spoken to said it sounds like fun.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 01:01   #186
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by rUl3r View Post
It could also mean PA team thought about it and decided to leave it as it is.
We will see wont we.

Quote:
I´ve spoken to quite some people about it and they all said it is a fun idea and they can´t see anything unfair about it. What´s your point?
My point was, we can all say "most people ive spoken to" have said such and such.

Quote:
It does not matter. I got roided by a teamup on the 2nd day. It affected my planet rank, and I found it quite unfair other people did not get roided.
I think we should limit roiding in the first week to one free land per planet so everyone gets a fair share of roids.
Nope, as this game is about attacking for roids and defending for roids in planet, galaxy and allianced based play. Its just the question of weither donations should have a huge impact as well.

Quote:
Repeatedly saying he got an unfair advantage doesn´t make this more true.
2x the value of the #2 planet. How is that not an unfair advantage? Its unbalanced compared to other strategys and it gives him a huge short term boost with no real drawbacks. Yes, you can argue its balanced for the galaxy but its certainly not balanced for planets.

Quote:
As a rough guess I´d estimate PA team is likely to listen to the whiners. I think I mentioned examples for this earlier in this thread. If you cry enough, you usually get something banned. PA team don´t want to upset people, and those who come up with those "irregular" strategies usually giggle when you try to have one banned and think about the next. It´s a fairly easy way for PA team to make you shut up and pretend things in your little world are allright.
Thats how come we have private galaxys this round?

Quote:
Are you aware donations from the gal fund are limited to planets below average score?
They arnt limited by the amount of resources able to be donated to that planet in relation to the average score. Whereby, you cannot donate X amount of resources to someone which would take them above the average score. So you should only be able to donate to someone to get them to the average galaxy score.

Quote:
See above, all people I´ve spoken to said it sounds like fun.
See my previous point, we can all say that about anything, its meaningless. Its just a thing people try to say to pretend everyone else agree's with them.

The question to keep donations the way they are, boils down to weither or not we want donations to play a key part in the game deciding planet ranks. Then if the question is yes, it becomes a question of by how much, should a whole galaxy be able to donate to the planet from the start? or should the max amount start small and grow as the galaxy grows (or round progresses). Is donating 7 startup bonuses to one planet balanced in terms of planet rank or should it be limited to a lower number? if at all?

No-ones answered these questions other than to say 'its fun' or 'it keeps the round from stagnating'. If you want it kept in the game, come up with a way to balance it with other starting strategys. I tried to start doing this by bringing up the point of doing it through goverments (where one goverment gives you X amount of resources but has lower income or something) to balance it out.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 01:22   #187
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Re: donation whores

Genuinely I tire of this debate.

What's pretty clear to me is that such donations to BA shouldn't be allowed, but the rules have evolved in a way that unfortunately legitimises them. If a group of players has found a way for the rules to let them do this then they are well within their right to do so in my opinion.

What needs to happen is to look at how the rules as they stand have done this and look to create new rules to stop donations for anything other than common sense tactical reasons or to help small planets rebuild. As really, that's what donations are supposed to be there for. If anyone thinks that PA team wanted this to happen:they don't possibly have the time or the mentality to screw with their own game to do so. Within the rules, BlueArmy was not unfairly disadvantaged as far as I can see. Should he have been classified as such, almost certainly but the rules do not say this.

In addition, I cannot help to notice that the very people criticising his activity are the very same who are in favour of fundamentally bad ideas such as the support planet rule which is almost certainly a contributor to what has happened. To campaign for a deletion here would be pure folly; it is quite obvious that we need to take a long, hard cold, look at the rules and see if they are working as they should.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 06:47   #188
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken View Post
but the rules have evolved in a way that unfortunately legitimises them.
Actually, pretty much anything you do can be deemed against the support planet rule or at least against the addendum that speaks of something along the lines of "as new methods of cheating are discovered". It allows in practise infinite maneuverability for the admin in charge to more or less do anything he wants.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 07:36   #189
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Re: donation whores

they should have a poll to see how many people actually like/dislike it.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 09:52   #190
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Re: donation whores

No, they should make a decision. Half of these idiots wouldn't know an argument if it hit them in the face.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 10:02   #191
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aryn View Post
they should have a poll to see how many people actually like/dislike it.
Problem is that if you post a poll these dribbling idiots will vote something on it on a random probability distribution regardless whether the poll concerns either raping their mother against skullfvcking their grandmother or for and against support planet rule.

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(c) As newer methods of cheating are discovered, you authorise us to interpret
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Whoever is deemed a cheater by a multihunter is a cheater based on any random logic that may or may not have anything to do with anything. In essence, someone redo these rules.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 10:13   #192
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Re: donation whores

In fairness, that's a standard part of any EULA (though it does seem a bit more pervasive than what I normally see).
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 10:30   #193
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Re: donation whores

Even the worst donation hoe cant roid alki though!!! Or well he can.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 10:37   #194
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Re: donation whores

What amazes me is that noone thought right after these donations happened 'omg, those xans wont have ships' and cath ****ed us.
Alas. Too late.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 11:18   #195
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
In fairness, that's a standard part of any EULA (though it does seem a bit more pervasive than what I normally see).
Yes it is, of course, the necessary legal back door. The crux is the fact that generally it's the point of legal contracts that is invoked very rarely, in Planetarion it's what is generally used to stomp every creative attempt in protection of what people claim "fair competition" in a game that has never been about "fair competition" in the first place. Most of the genuinely interesting rounds of the game in my opinion have been the ones where dramatic innovations and creative tactics have changed the path of the round.

By choking everything that's not "common tactics" relying on this one bit of EULA that allows the implementation of support planet rules et cetera even mid round is the thing that's driving the "competition" in this game into a race of who can be arsed to bust ass the most instead of a race of who can come up with a clever plan and emerging triumphant.

It's blatantly obvious in this case. Someone comes up with a creative tactic to gain an edge mostly because it's a surprising show of flair (rather than something unbeatable), and people will be howling for the wolves at instant. If it ends up in a punishment, it's just a symbol of what a role the choking grasp of the rules enforcement plays in this game. The obvious bias involved to it further underpins the vanity of the rule culture in this game.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 11:48   #196
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä View Post
Yes it is, of course, the necessary legal back door. The crux is the fact that generally it's the point of legal contracts that is invoked very rarely, in Planetarion it's what is generally used to stomp every creative attempt in protection of what people claim "fair competition" in a game that has never been about "fair competition" in the first place. Most of the genuinely interesting rounds of the game in my opinion have been the ones where dramatic innovations and creative tactics have changed the path of the round.

By choking everything that's not "common tactics" relying on this one bit of EULA that allows the implementation of support planet rules et cetera even mid round is the thing that's driving the "competition" in this game into a race of who can be arsed to bust ass the most instead of a race of who can come up with a clever plan and emerging triumphant.

It's blatantly obvious in this case. Someone comes up with a creative tactic to gain an edge mostly because it's a surprising show of flair (rather than something unbeatable), and people will be howling for the wolves at instant. If it ends up in a punishment, it's just a symbol of what a role the choking grasp of the rules enforcement plays in this game. The obvious bias involved to it further underpins the vanity of the rule culture in this game.
You're absolutly right, this round is shaping up to be one of the best rounds ever, BlueArmys "creative attempt" has caused Planetarion no longer to be boring, no longer needing changing, no longer dying.. He has single handly saved planetarion with this "flair".

Yes, it may be unbalanced, yes it may be unfair, but does that really matter? Planetarion shouldnt be about fairness or competition but about one alliance, galaxy, planet doing something "creative" to gain an unbalanced edge.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 11:57   #197
Mzyxptlk
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Re: donation whores

By very definition, doing something out of the ordinary is more interesting than doing the same thing you've always done. Beyond that, perhaps you could stop putting up straw men.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 11:58   #198
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Re: donation whores

Oh for christs sake, can we please ban everyone who is using the term "unfair advantage"? Any advantage is unfair by definition, unless everyone has it, in which case it is not an advantage anymore.

tl;dr: Harden the fukc up.

Getting back to the point, what BlueArmy and his galaxy did is not unfair at all, simply because everyone had the chance to do it at that point in time. Fairness means giving everyone the same changes, nothing else. Yes it is temporarily turning the universe out of balance right after the start of the round, but eventually every round of Planetarion is out of balance at some point. So instead of complaining go and figure out how you can turn the (im)balance back into your favour, even if you are only doing it by the good, old, boring 'let's mass block to take someone down" appraoch.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 12:36   #199
Tietäjä
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Yes, it may be unbalanced, yes it may be unfair, but does that really matter? Planetarion shouldnt be about fairness or competition but about one alliance, galaxy, planet doing something "creative" to gain an unbalanced edge.
See there you go, despite your attempt at internet sarcasm we've reached an agreement. The game truly is about a planet, and/or a galaxy, and/or an alliance coming up with a tactic that trumps the others and hailing victory. Great stuff. I can still keep remembering round 17 and 1up's grand plan for it - the only stain on this victory comes from the rules enforcement that gave them a special permission to do it but prevented others from doing it in past rounds and in future rounds to come. How... Very fitting.
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Unread 31 Mar 2010, 13:03   #200
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Re: donation whores

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
You're absolutly right, this round is shaping up to be one of the best rounds ever, BlueArmys "creative attempt" has caused Planetarion no longer to be boring, no longer needing changing, no longer dying.. He has single handly saved planetarion with this "flair".

Yes, it may be unbalanced, yes it may be unfair, but does that really matter? Planetarion shouldnt be about fairness or competition but about one alliance, galaxy, planet doing something "creative" to gain an unbalanced edge.
only thing I get out of this is that I am a saviour, though I prefer Messiah really. So in ending, ALL HAIL BLUEARMY, THE SAVIOUR OF PLANETARION, THE ASCENDANT MESSIAH
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