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Unread 5 Dec 2009, 22:07   #201
Gio2k
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
This is truly cringe-worthy stuff. If I was on your side and actually had any intention of splitting apprime and ascendancy the last thing I would be doing is posting about it on AD, forcing everyone on either side to deny it. You're not weakening the bond with this retarded shit, you're actually strengthening it for god's sake. You've probably talked enough shit at this stage to ensure it sticks together for the last two weeks regardless so congratulations on at least accomplishing something
If you are referring to me, let me clear this up right now. I don't give a fk whether Asc or App split or not. In fact i am already convinced Asc and app view themselves as a block, whereas SCEND never started as a block, it was just the usual gangbang of the most dangerous alliance.
On the other hand, it does amuse me that some Apprime members want to make it look as if Apprime and Asc were the best friends now, ignoring the fact that the have always been rivals. So plz, cut the crap. You are working together, yes. You have respect for each other, sure. But don't come in here telling you would drop members from tag so that Asc gets the win.
So if you think i am posting here to get Apprime and Asc to split, you are dead wrong. I was just making fun of Apprime's "we're Asc best friends now" bullshit. I don't see Asc saying they would give Apprime the win if they could. At least they are not that retarded.

Even if somehow Asc and Apprime did split. What would be gained? The top alliance rank is not in SCENDs control. The only realistic goals and thus worth pursuing is bringing either Asc or Apprime down to 3rd or 4th ranking, and dominate the top 10 planet rank. Getting the upper hand on the top 10 galaxy ranks is a goal worth chasing, but less likely.

So really, if Asc or Apprime splits or not, we as a "block" should not care. Asc and Apprime have made this a block war, and we should plan our goals accordingly as a block. Funnily enough, i never considered SCEND a block up until 2 nights ago, and i must say many people i know in subh have found new motivation to keep fighting now that there are new goals worth fighting for. So thanks!
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Unread 5 Dec 2009, 22:50   #202
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Tbh you saying you have control of 2nd place no fking chance dont kid yourself. using 5 alliances to attack one and still you aint really doing that much damage. Tbh i dont know who u are but you are completely dillusional to think that you are not a block five alliances defending and attacking with each other = block

Last edited by Firebird; 5 Dec 2009 at 23:06.
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Unread 5 Dec 2009, 22:59   #203
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Snip
It's pretty embarassing really that you're claiming the goal for 5 alliances for the whole round has become stopping one alliance finishing second.

Is that the best thing you could find for your members?
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Unread 5 Dec 2009, 23:14   #204
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Asc and Apprime have made this a block war, and we should plan our goals accordingly as a block. Funnily enough, i never considered SCEND a block up until 2 nights ago
Were you born this stupid or did you have to study to reach this level , asc and app joined forces to work together against the already formed densc block
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Unread 5 Dec 2009, 23:27   #205
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
If you are referring to me, let me clear this up right now. I don't give a fk whether Asc or App split or not. In fact i am already convinced Asc and app view themselves as a block, whereas SCEND never started as a block, it was just the usual gangbang of the most dangerous alliance.
On the other hand, it does amuse me that some Apprime members want to make it look as if Apprime and Asc were the best friends now, ignoring the fact that the have always been rivals. So plz, cut the crap. You are working together, yes. You have respect for each other, sure. But don't come in here telling you would drop members from tag so that Asc gets the win.
So if you think i am posting here to get Apprime and Asc to split, you are dead wrong. I was just making fun of Apprime's "we're Asc best friends now" bullshit. I don't see Asc saying they would give Apprime the win if they could. At least they are not that retarded.

Even if somehow Asc and Apprime did split. What would be gained? The top alliance rank is not in SCENDs control. The only realistic goals and thus worth pursuing is bringing either Asc or Apprime down to 3rd or 4th ranking, and dominate the top 10 planet rank. Getting the upper hand on the top 10 galaxy ranks is a goal worth chasing, but less likely.

So really, if Asc or Apprime splits or not, we as a "block" should not care. Asc and Apprime have made this a block war, and we should plan our goals accordingly as a block. Funnily enough, i never considered SCEND a block up until 2 nights ago, and i must say many people i know in subh have found new motivation to keep fighting now that there are new goals worth fighting for. So thanks!
The waves of incompetence coming off my computer screen when reading this nearly ripped my skin off my face, but I felt it best to respond.

To cut to the chase, your post is pretty much an admission of defeat. Good, you deserve to lose. Take your ball and go home. I may or may not have said previously (I genuinely don't remember) but of course Apprime and Ascendancy are going to play best budz - they probably want to go hell for leather against one another and certainly want to win. However while they can't beat the other as the result is that they both get catastrophically owned, the only option they have is to stick together and hope for the best if SCEND don't want to play ball as you claim.

Ultimately you are doing something for no benefit whatsoever. If you think that Apprime or Ascendancy are going to believe for a second that your motivation isn't going to sap as time goes on then you're a bit foolish. Both alliances have motivation to hang on in there and win - you just have a random objective that doesn't really show you up to be worth of anything of consequence.
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Unread 5 Dec 2009, 23:28   #206
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
You have been out of channel too long to know what is going on in here.
I can quit PA, come back 3 years later (assuming the game is still running then!) and still know that cardi wouldn't give up the win when it's his to take.

As mz pointed out, there's no reason for Apprime to give Ascendancy the win, both alliances have had their share of incs. I don't think either will turn on the other, but giving away a (in my opinion) well earned win for Apprime should they be #1 is something I don't see happening.
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Unread 5 Dec 2009, 23:40   #207
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Re: Round 34 officially over

As i said before Pat the win means nothing dont know how many times this needs to be said without each we wouldnt be in this position anyways also the block forced us to play more like this our intentions were never to win if needed i can dig logs out to stop this nonsense
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Unread 5 Dec 2009, 23:44   #208
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by gzambo View Post
Were you born this stupid or did you have to study to reach this level , asc and app joined forces to work together against the already formed densc block
We were not a block at the start. We had no common goal of winning as a block, it was all about keeping Apprime from outroiding everyone. Asc obviously saw a threat that we would just keep it going once we finished Apprime up. It was obviously possible, but i think it was much more probable that the block would have dissolved once Apprime was out of the race for top alliance, and then each alliance would have pursued their own chance of ending top alliance.

Obviously things didn't go like that. But it was Asc + Apprime that first assumed the identity of a block, and forced this situation, and they are blaming us for it when in fact they are just as guilty of it. I don't see any of your alliances making any move towards changing the block vs block dynamics. I don't really mind. The goal of the block is not to bash one single alliance out of the top 3. The goal is to get ahold of the top2 and 3 rankings, and in order to get it, the most efficient way is to hit either Apprime or Asc fortresses uninterruptedly. Is it unfair using 5 alliances to hit one single galaxy? Certainly. But it's the way things are, it's a block war atm, and everything is allowed.

Regarding your insults, i guess i could just sink to that level, but i wont.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 00:00   #209
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Re: Round 34 officially over

You very much amuse me. You push 5 allys onto one ooo we are not a block then most likely are about to move onto the next so the two u are picking on join together to defend themselves against 5. The block was formed by yourselves so stop trying to kid yourself.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 00:14   #210
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
our intentions were never to win
You keep saying this, and it keeps being as true as it is irrelevant. Read my previous reply to you to understand why.


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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
We were not a block at the start. We had no common goal of winning as a block, it was all about keeping Apprime from outroiding everyone. Asc obviously saw a threat that we would just keep it going once we finished Apprime up. It was obviously possible, but i think it was much more probable that the block would have dissolved once Apprime was out of the race for top alliance, and then each alliance would have pursued their own chance of ending top alliance.
I doubt this is true. If you have a bunch of alliances who've just closely worked together to bring down Apprime, and have achieved this goal successfuly, you have a lot of members with high morale, each of whom sees only one highly skilled alliance to stop them winning the round: Ascendancy. Do you really believe they wouldn't do the same thing to Ascendancy as they did to Apprime? That they would think to themselves "let's gangbang this one highly skilled alliance, and once we're done with them, let's leave this other one alone and settle for second place"? That would be fairly irrational (euphenism for stupid).

It's not what a rational person would do, which is the only kind of person that can be predicted. As such, we tend to make the assumption that you are in fact rational, and act accordingly. In this case, that meant aligning ourselves with the only alliance likely to accept the offer: Apprime.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 00:19   #211
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
We were not a block at the start. We had no common goal of winning as a block, it was all about keeping Apprime from outroiding everyone. Asc obviously saw a threat that we would just keep it going once we finished Apprime up. It was obviously possible, but i think it was much more probable that the block would have dissolved once Apprime was out of the race for top alliance, and then each alliance would have pursued their own chance of ending top alliance.

Obviously things didn't go like that. But it was Asc + Apprime that first assumed the identity of a block, and forced this situation, and they are blaming us for it when in fact they are just as guilty of it. I don't see any of your alliances making any move towards changing the block vs block dynamics. I don't really mind. The goal of the block is not to bash one single alliance out of the top 3. The goal is to get ahold of the top2 and 3 rankings, and in order to get it, the most efficient way is to hit either Apprime or Asc fortresses uninterruptedly. Is it unfair using 5 alliances to hit one single galaxy? Certainly. But it's the way things are, it's a block war atm, and everything is allowed.

Regarding your insults, i guess i could just sink to that level, but i wont.
This is why i stopped posting, because i dont know anything and it annoys people when i pretend i do
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 01:12   #212
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
As i said before Pat the win means nothing dont know how many times this needs to be said without each we wouldnt be in this position anyways also the block forced us to play more like this our intentions were never to win if needed i can dig logs out to stop this nonsense
The fact that you're not playing for the win does not mean you'll give up the win to someone else when you're in the #1 position, which I'm 100% sure you wouldn't do.

Feel free to prove me wrong though in ~10 days!

Ps. Subh joined 'the block' on the condition we would hit Ascendancy after Apprime had been roided down (as at the time it looked like we still had a shot at #1, little did we know!).
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 01:19   #213
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Re: Round 34 officially over

And another thing; Ascendancy wasn't going for the win this round either... So will you both kick members until someone else is #1?
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 02:24   #214
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
And another thing; Ascendancy wasn't going for the win this round either... So will you both kick members until someone else is #1?
It seems no ally was 'going for the win' this round, which is maybe why it has ended up with a stagnant block war with no real winners. I do find it amusing however that in previous rounds the second place ally (regardless of political positioning) has often been lambasted for its desire to push for the winning spot - however now that asc and apprime are holding the positions its suddenly a act of great friendship and wisdom. Maybe thats why there has been such a high emphasis on the 'winning block' as people are trying to avoid the reality that asc are going to win and apprime will have to suffice with a highly unmemorable second place.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 03:03   #215
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
The goal is to get ahold of the top2 and 3 rankings, and in order to get it, the most efficient way is to hit either Apprime or Asc fortresses uninterruptedly.
There is much confusion and circular argument in this thread. The reason behind this is related to the fact that (as mz said) Ascendancy and Apprime have tried to predict the actions of rational enemies. The goals of those enemies are shrouded in mystery however and seem to be continually changing, what is certain though, is that according to posters from said enemy, the goal was never a rational one, that of actually winning.

Looking at the second half of this sentence I've quoted, brings me back to the original topic. If you admit the most efficient way of achieving your goals is to hit Apprime or Ascendancy, then why did you hit Vision? While it may have provided short term success, morale boosts etc., in those same nights both Ascendancy and Apprime were allowed to grow unrestricted, the former jumping into first place and the latter quickly closing down on second place, which they have now taken. The net result? A block war that looked to still be an open and undecided competition suddenly has a victor; you may have boosted low morale in your block, but on the other side morale was boosted that was never anywhere near low. Without wanting to downplay Vision's role in their block, roiding them had zero negative effect on their block and while it may have had a positive effect on your side, the positive was much higher in the winning block.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 03:16   #216
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
Looking at the second half of this sentence I've quoted, brings me back to the original topic. If you admit the most efficient way of achieving your goals is to hit Apprime or Ascendancy, then why did you hit Vision? While it may have provided short term success, morale boosts etc., in those same nights both Ascendancy and Apprime were allowed to grow unrestricted, the former jumping into first place and the latter quickly closing down on second place, which they have now taken. The net result? A block war that looked to still be an open and undecided competition suddenly has a victor; you may have boosted low morale in your block, but on the other side morale was boosted that was never anywhere near low. Without wanting to downplay Vision's role in their block, roiding them had zero negative effect on their block and while it may have had a positive effect on your side, the positive was much higher in the winning block.
Apprime havent had incs in weeks and were always going to close the gap to asc, if anything its in the interests of the block for those two to be comparable in score as while it may not change the alleigance of either side it may lead to other elements such as less out of ally defence between the two alliances - especially if apprime is the alliance always defending. Asc were also always going to overtake ND when ND got targetted by the asc/app possy and other elements such as kicking 3mil+ score in anders who went directly to join asc didnt exactly help ND's plight for #1. Alot of VSN lost fleet during the two days of inc they recieved, certainly alot more than would of been lost by asc/app over that period and while they may not wield it as efficiently as asc/app it was still a reasonable political decision and definately not worthy of 3 pages worth of flame and propaganda.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 08:23   #217
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Here are some things from my perspective, I think:

One night we had inc from 4 allies on our 3 heavy gals, with Apprime's BS fleets the last to launch on our fattest gal. We were thinking about what we could do about it when we learned CBA had organized it because apparently we had been hitting ODDR heavy gals. That was a pretty lol moment for me, and very surprising. Anyways we lost like 7% and figured that would be it, we were the top avg size iirc, but the next night we got targetted again, with app still launching last. Again thinking what to do, it was clear the specific targeting of us was orchestrated (lol) by cardi. This was quite an exciting night, as we then had something to do with our round besides gal raids and opportunistic targets. We lost 7% again I think, but then hit app with euphoria the next day, and then for maybe a week straight (or maybe one day off).

I think we first tried just raiding their gals, which worked alright except it caught them off guard a little. Another night of less successful galraids and we went to more launches, with 2/3 coordinated raids launched. This whole time, DLR at least, had been doing varying levels of launch/recall missions on app, but only managed to roid planets that weren't in stronghold gals. They also had their pillagers bulked this time around (have you wondered why their fleets are so pill heavy even now?), which are pretty awesome defships against our fi/co. The other race advantage app had over us was tycoons, and some nights they were able to offset or even gain on their roidless to us. But that's ok with us, we like annoying someone almost as much as roiding them, and attrition is a favorite of ours because we have so many north americans. I'd like to point out that their def was the most disciplined I've seen in awhile (certainly this round); not only were they efficient at covering things, but they got almost every fleet pulled the next tick (we'd be pulling ~10 seconds to tick). I think I saw maybe 2-3 burned def fleets after like a 9 hour stretch earlier on, with the vast majority getting pulled with no tick loss.

Anyways app had massive pillager fleets by this point, and we couldn't hurt them as much as we wanted to, so ND joined us, figuring the extra fleets would make for easy roids I guess. After maybe 2 nights we decided to switch to the asc fortress gals (gotta hit them early every round, and we're never early enough imo). I'm not sure at what point subh and ct joined into 'the block' (personally I have never really thought of them as anything more than frequent attack partners), but it wasn't before ND. Once we started hitting asc my Thanksgiving break was hitting stride and I was pretty inactive for a few days, and when I'm back we're hitting vision. We've shared fr/de def fleets with Euphoria since we realized we couldn't stop apps tycoons individually (getting SKed helps you realize this much faster, as does cardi running his mouth), and occasionally fi/co fleets. I'd surely consider them our allies for the round (but I don't feel part of a block, and before we started hitting app we were teaming up to hit the top gals. I wouldn't mind hitting app longer, but since we're at a point after letting up on them, I can also agree with hitting asc. Ascendancy usually leaves us alone unless they've secured the round win, in which case they'll pwn us, so we like to delay that when an opportunity presents itself; plus they are hard targets and won't get hit unless it's us. Since we started hitting asc, we've been crashing a lot (they usually seem to have this effect), with the last two days being cringe worthy. Part of me gets frustrated and wants to kick them from tag, but then I think I could ****up and crash tomorrow and it's just a game.

tl;dr: you saved yourself a few minutes
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 10:15   #218
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Anyways app had massive pillager fleets by this point, and we couldn't hurt them as much as we wanted to, so ND joined us
Which at this time meant you were fighting 3 vs 1 and still didnt think it was enough. You got impatient and frustrated over being owned so instead of trying to work out a plan to get to us, you asked for more help. You guys.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 11:51   #219
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by LukeyLove View Post
I do find it amusing however that in previous rounds the second place ally (regardless of political positioning) has often been lambasted for its desire to push for the winning spot - however now that asc and apprime are holding the positions its suddenly a act of great friendship and wisdom. Maybe thats why there has been such a high emphasis on the 'winning block' as people are trying to avoid the reality that asc are going to win and apprime will have to suffice with a highly unmemorable second place.
The issue here is that there's a block of 5 alliances out there, just aching to get back into the game. AVA have a much better chance of getting through this round together than they do separately. The moment we turn on each other, either Ascendancy or Apprime will have a 200+ block on their ass, and a couple of days later, it'll be the other one. Vision would probably survive a bit longer, but it'd be a fairly dire situation for all of us, if only because there's basically no one else to cooperate with any more.

So while our cooperation is certainly at least partly rooted in great friendship, the reason it lasted this long is purely based on the AVA's need to cover their backs against the horde. You've driven us into each other's arms, working together was and still is the only rational choice.

I don't know if there's anything you can do to change that, not any more. By now we're so used to working together (and have such negative feelings towards the block), that I doubt we'd split up even if you all went into vacation mode. I'd be interested in hearing other people's opinions though. What certainly won't put you back into the race for #1 spot is continuing to gangbang us, it'll only strengthen our resolve to stick it out together.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 12:04   #220
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by HaNzI View Post
You got impatient and frustrated over being owned so instead of trying to work out a plan to get to us, you asked for more help. You guys.
Then you got impatient and frustrated over being owned so instead of trying to work out a plan to get to us, you asked 2 other alliances for help.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 12:40   #221
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Except that one alliance cant take 5 alliances on its own, while 2(3) alliances can(should be) able to take down 1 alliance.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 12:51   #222
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Re: Round 34 officially over

I never remember Ascendancy being asked for help. Like with most people 'in the know', there were some friendly conversations and the actions made by the various 'other alliances'. Left little option then to cooperate. Also the fact that you work together with the only other competent alliance (maybe even a bit more competent than us this round if I may lick their anal region a bit) is not a bad given.

After all this, it only seemed VisioN were not interested in massive block wars (with p3nguins really just idling and being on the xVx level) yet they still had impressive Fi/Co fleets and an HC which wanted to build a core (much like subh) but had a steady plan to do so. Personally, I do not know who agrees with me, I think it is good for the game that it happens and thus working with them and trying to help them work their game up is only good.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 12:54   #223
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
There is much confusion and circular argument in this thread. The reason behind this is related to the fact that (as mz said) Ascendancy and Apprime have tried to predict the actions of rational enemies. The goals of those enemies are shrouded in mystery however and seem to be continually changing, what is certain though, is that according to posters from said enemy, the goal was never a rational one, that of actually winning.

Looking at the second half of this sentence I've quoted, brings me back to the original topic. If you admit the most efficient way of achieving your goals is to hit Apprime or Ascendancy, then why did you hit Vision? While it may have provided short term success, morale boosts etc., in those same nights both Ascendancy and Apprime were allowed to grow unrestricted, the former jumping into first place and the latter quickly closing down on second place, which they have now taken. The net result? A block war that looked to still be an open and undecided competition suddenly has a victor; you may have boosted low morale in your block, but on the other side morale was boosted that was never anywhere near low. Without wanting to downplay Vision's role in their block, roiding them had zero negative effect on their block and while it may have had a positive effect on your side, the positive was much higher in the winning block.
What's the reason for hitting the weakest link in a block? Break their morale / activity. I am sure you will all agree that Vision is the alliance most likely to break under big incomings. This is just my view ofc, but the error was not hitting Vision, the error was only hitting them for 2 nights, and not keeping it up. Hitting either Ascendancy or Apprime would have been much easier with Vision out of the picture.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 13:10   #224
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
What's the reason for hitting the weakest link in a block? Break their morale / activity. I am sure you will all agree that Vision is the alliance most likely to break under big incomings. This is just my view ofc, but the error was not hitting Vision, the error was only hitting them for 2 nights, and not keeping it up. Hitting either Ascendancy or Apprime would have been much easier with Vision out of the picture.
You completely missed my point heh! While you may have stood a chance at taking Vision out of the war (this is very debatable though), the overall negative effect on the block is very limited, especially when compared with the positive effects of Ascendancy and Apprime have two nights of unrestricted growth. And you're proposing to give them more nights? It's like handing the win over on a silver platter!
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 13:37   #225
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Also he seems to think that the options both sides have are identical.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 13:44   #226
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Its all a question of do apprime really want the win. It is theirs IF they want it.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 13:55   #227
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Apprime have been fighting to get the best position possible always. What was said was that we didnt expect to win because of a smaller tag. We have also stated that turning the backs on our allies who we depend so much on would be out of the question.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 14:04   #228
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
And another thing; Ascendancy wasn't going for the win this round either... So will you both kick members until someone else is #1?
Ascendancy seldom starts with #1 is clearly set goal, but we certainly try to reach for it if it gets within our range. When I state early round "atm I don´t tihnk Asc will win", it´s an honest prediction based on that very moment. Things just tend to change a bit later

Anyway, while you all sort of flame firebird for his comment about kicking people, I understood it quite a bit differently. As long as AscApp are on ranks 1/2, it´s certainly not up to the DENSC block alone who wins, because we always _could_ kick members to switch around rankings.
That said, I highly doubt either of the two would do such a thing, basically because it´s completely pointless. I´m somewhat sure App will overtake Asc in the ally ranking before round end, mostly because the kindergarden bullies out there seem to dislike us even more than Apprime. However, the fight so far has been a hugely concerted effort, and just for the giggles about DENSC we´re all winners already.

Your reply to Hanzi was ridiculous, blaming someone for being horribly outnumbered when you actually mustered those numbers yourself makes you look retarded. If you don´t have a point just shut up. Your side started blocking (as usual, one must say), as those "gangbangs" are nothing else than blocking, for a varying amount of time EACH FREAKING ROUND. I´d be really happy if for example Euphoria manages to build up to become a force that doesn´t need to gather 2/3 of the playing universe to pick on one alliance. It´s getting boring. I mean, not only the ridiculous gangbangs are getting boring, winning against them is.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 14:38   #229
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by rUl3r View Post
Your reply to Hanzi was ridiculous, blaming someone for being horribly outnumbered when you actually mustered those numbers yourself makes you look retarded. If you don´t have a point just shut up.
I thought it was at least somewhat obvious I wasn't serious. And last time I checked humour was still allowed on the internet (regardless of how bad the 'joke' may have been!)


Apprime can complain (and stroke their own egos!) all they want, but it's a simple fact that the impact of hitting them is exponentially bigger the more alliances are in. All alliances involved had their reasons for joining in, even though some might not have made sense to you or me. In retrospect I don't think pushing Apprime/Asc together was the smartest thing to do, but I'm not sure how else we would've kept them from steamrolling away with the win. Somehow I think both would've been reluctant to hit the other, and would've sooner cooperated together on Euph/DLR and roidrace than hit eachother.

And as for the gangbangs getting boring, I'd really really like to see a 100% random round, with no galaxy exiling and cheaper selfexiles. Fortress galaxies are (one of) the causes of these kind of rounds, and I think it'd be a nice change both for the people used to fortressing as for the people used to gangbanging up on the former.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 14:41   #230
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Re: Round 34 officially over

May i remind you Apprime did not make fortress galaxies last round, but the universe made a block on us anyways
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 14:53   #231
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Patrikc View Post
I thought it was at least somewhat obvious I wasn't serious. And last time I checked humour was still allowed on the internet (regardless of how bad the 'joke' may have been!)
Yea no worries, humor is still allowed. Appearantly I just didn´t get the joke, you might try to transport it better next time. Maybe place a smiley

Quote:
Apprime can complain (and stroke their own egos!) all they want, but it's a simple fact that the impact of hitting them is exponentially bigger the more alliances are in. All alliances involved had their reasons for joining in, even though some might not have made sense to you or me. In retrospect I don't think pushing Apprime/Asc together was the smartest thing to do, but I'm not sure how else we would've kept them from steamrolling away with the win. Somehow I think both would've been reluctant to hit the other, and would've sooner cooperated together on Euph/DLR and roidrace than hit eachother.
Considering this has been tried multiple times before without success, one should expect people try something different at times. Obviously, they don´t, they try to apply the same fail tactics round after round. Why exactly do you think the 127634th gangbang will be successful, if it´s executed by the same people in the same way that failed pretty much every time before?
Even worse, you drove the top 2 enemies into cooperation (as you have noticed yourself, that was no smart move).
Your assumption Asc/App wouldn´t have started fighting at some point is rather weak imo. We´ve seen Asc/App conflicts before, eventually one would overtake the other in a roidrace, forcing the losing ally to start a direct war. Also, never underestimate someone manages to piss Cardi off and start a war that way. That has also happened before

Quote:
And as for the gangbangs getting boring, I'd really really like to see a 100% random round, with no galaxy exiling and cheaper selfexiles. Fortress galaxies are (one of) the causes of these kind of rounds, and I think it'd be a nice change both for the people used to fortressing as for the people used to gangbanging up on the former.
I doubt fortress gals are the poin here. Most allies have a tendency not to hit large gals for a long time. They´re afraid it wouldn´t pay off. While this might be true later in a round, early on the top gals are first of all fat. While allies resort to hitting like size rank 50 to 20 gals, the biggest ones are usually allowed to grow fine value from their roidlead. I don´t exactl see this changing by getting rid of fortress gals. People are putting effort into those gals, effort alot of others are not willing to put into the game. Punishing someone for actually enjoying to spend time on something is certainly a brilliant idea.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 15:07   #232
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
I don't remember us doing that badly without alliance rankings to be honest.
Can we get back to 2009 and leave 2001 for a while? I mean, it was a whole different a game back then, I don't really believe the current environment would dramatically change from building fences hippie-style even if you abolished alliance rankings. Score still exists, score will remain, you're just going to paint the fence in a different color. You'd need a more radical change to make a difference in how you "win" in order to change the playing mentality if you get the picture.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 15:15   #233
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
Its all a question of do apprime really want the win. It is theirs IF they want it.
This has reached the drooling spastic stage and has moved into the realm of just embarrassing. Please stop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
You'd need a more radical change to make a difference in how you "win" in order to change the playing mentality if you get the picture.
Sure, I'm not objecting to any more radical changes. My comment was just to the effect that I think the alliance ranking system has severely stagnated the ways that are open to play pa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
Obviously things didn't go like that. But it was Asc + Apprime that first assumed the identity of a block, and forced this situation, and they are blaming us for it when in fact they are just as guilty of it.
Retarded, untrue and demonstrated as false later on in the thread. Some trifecta you got there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrikc
I can quit PA, come back 3 years later (assuming the game is still running then!) and still know that cardi wouldn't give up the win when it's his to take.
This would be worth talking about if he hadn't already kept a NAP in r31 that meant his alliance didn't end up winning. As it is it looks, well, retarded, untrue and demonstrably false.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k
So really, if Asc or Apprime splits or not, we as a "block" should not care. Asc and Apprime have made this a block war, and we should plan our goals accordingly as a block. Funnily enough, i never considered SCEND a block up until 2 nights ago, and i must say many people i know in subh have found new motivation to keep fighting now that there are new goals worth fighting for. So thanks!
Reference earlier comment regarding drool.


PS All that stuff about DLR and Euphoria being quality alliances is looking pretty ridiculous now considering the staggering fleet losses recently. Does anyone even care anymore or can we just wind up the round 2 weeks early?
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 15:39   #234
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Sure, I'm not objecting to any more radical changes. My comment was just to the effect that I think the alliance ranking system has severely stagnated the ways that are open to play pa.
Apologies, I'll now stop sidetracking this thread into a different subject, but to gather attention I posted a thread here on the subject as requested. It's sketchy and lacking but it's more of a picture of how I'd see it.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 16:17   #235
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
You completely missed my point heh! While you may have stood a chance at taking Vision out of the war (this is very debatable though), the overall negative effect on the block is very limited, especially when compared with the positive effects of Ascendancy and Apprime have two nights of unrestricted growth. And you're proposing to give them more nights? It's like handing the win over on a silver platter!
It is debatable. You think taking Vision out of the picture was not probable. I think it was fairly doable with another 2 to 3 nights of concentrated incoming. You think the effect of taking Vision out would be of little consequence. I think it would have made things easier for the block.
Then again, we will never know what would have happened, since the block decided against hitting Vision any further and shifted their objective towards Asc. I actually think that switching targets is the worst possible course of action.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 17:01   #236
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
You think taking Vision out of the picture was not probable.
I said it was debatable, not unprobable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
You think the effect of taking Vision out would be of little consequence.
I'm telling you, it's irrelevant, because

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
I think it would have made things easier for the block.
Yes it would have, if it had been an instantaneous dropout, there is no doubt that one less enemy to fight would make it easier. However, and I'll say it for the third time, the process of stopping targetting of your main enemies to concentrate on a minor side objective meant that you lost what should have been your main objective. I cannot emphasise this enough! Yes if you had one less enemy it would have obviously been easier, but by changing your focus for those two nights you lost, simple as that. The minor goals that you've set yourselves now (influencing 2nd/3rd) are by no means in your control yet and to your enemy your actions are now simply a minor annoyance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
I actually think that switching targets is the worst possible course of action.
Totally agree
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the most efficient way is to hit either Apprime or Asc fortresses uninterruptedly
(Yes, quoting out of context!)
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 17:10   #237
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Retarded, untrue and demonstrated as false later on in the thread. Some trifecta you got there.
You seem to be pretty much in the know of all the reasons and motives SCEND had to band together. DLR already explained they allied with Euphoria to hit Apprime back. I think i mentioned this before, either in irc or maybe even in forums, but i was quite puzzled about subh's decision to hit Apprime with other 4 alliances. I never felt such a big cooperation was necessary. Subh had its own goals back then, we were actually trying to keep ahead of ND in the race for top alliance. So you have 3 alliances in SCEND who were cooperating each for their own purposes. God knows what NDs / CTs goals were back then, but i doubt they thought "oh, lets make a block like back in the FLTTV days".

Its already quite clear that your definition of a block is different than mine. I also said that in my opinion there has not been a real block war since about r11 or so. Clearly, SCEND now fits my definition of block, because now there is a common goal, and it's not bashing Asc and handing Apprime the win on a silver plate. In the end, SCEND HCs decide what those common goals are. We will just keep hitting the assigned targets every night. And trying not to crash :/
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 17:33   #238
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
However, and I'll say it for the third time, the process of stopping targetting of your main enemies to concentrate on a minor side objective meant that you lost what should have been your main objective.
Lets just agree to disagree on this one. I will also say this for the nth-time: Hitting vision for 4-5 nights although letting Asc and App gain roids and value would have still put us in a better position than not hitting Vision, keeping either Asc or App in check, and let Vision keep on hitting us and participating in FCs, Vision were not a "minor" annoyance, they were and still are a big one.
We could probably argue endlessly about who is right, but we will never know, because we switched targets too early.

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Originally Posted by ellonweb View Post
The minor goals that you've set yourselves now (influencing 2nd/3rd) are by no means in your control yet and to your enemy your actions are now simply a minor annoyance.
Another point where we can just agree to disagree. Actually the only thing that we have control over (or should have control over) is which alliance finishes 2nd and 3rd, and our goal should be to position two SCEND alliances in those spots. You can call them minor goals if you want, i don't think we consider them to be minor. Our worst enemy at the moment to be honest, is ourselves, crashing value every night in totally unnecessary fashion.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 17:56   #239
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Hai guys so who's winning instead of whining?
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 18:06   #240
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Re: Round 34 officially over

We're all winners on AD.

(Apprime and/or Ascendancy)
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 18:09   #241
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Re: Round 34 officially over

JBG is winning. Again.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 18:24   #242
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Does anyone even care anymore or can we just wind up the round 2 weeks early?
Yeah, that works for me. Study time before the holidays
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 18:41   #243
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Actually the only thing that we have control over (or should have control over) is which alliance finishes 2nd and 3rd
You do not have control over this though, and the extent of your non-control is increasing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
You can call them minor goals if you want, i don't think we consider them to be minor.
Ultimately though, they are minor. Second place is first looser, and ultimately it is the combination ("block") of Ascendancy and Apprime that has won, regardless of which of the two actually ends first (assuming one of them does).
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 19:05   #244
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Still can't understand why people let Asc & App win the rounds constantly. Imo everyone should hit them from PT0 till the last tick of round. Would be fun to know how these alliances always find someone to follow/obey them and let them live :/
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 19:35   #245
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Re: Round 34 officially over

Would you believe me if i told you we actually did hope for incommnigs like that? Of course we wouldnt have whined if we didnt recieve incommings.

We are in the process of building an alliance that we plan to make one of the major players of the game.
What better way to sort out members there is no point in keeping than some good old fashioned incommnigs?

And lukeh we were infact forced to effectivly join the block when euph/dlr/subh/whatever banned defending vsn planets. before that we allowed our member to defend vs app. we werent even napped to asc at that point i believe.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 19:52   #246
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Would you believe me if i told you we actually did hope for incommnigs like that? Of course we wouldnt have whined if we didnt recieve incommings.

We are in the process of building an alliance that we plan to make one of the major players of the game.
What better way to sort out members there is no point in keeping than some good old fashioned incommnigs?

And lukeh we were infact forced to effectivly join the block when euph/dlr/subh/whatever banned defending vsn planets. before that we allowed our member to defend vs app. we werent even napped to asc at that point i believe.
The ND ban on defending vsn planets is actually a fairly recent addition, one that we only imposed upon hearing the other block had given the same measures to their own alliance. As for the rest of the block I cant say, if anything the ban on defending vsn planets should of been imposed alot earlier and there are still alot that do it and get away with it or who bitch that 'they will always defend their galmates no matter who attacks them' (gm).
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 22:06   #247
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Kafir View Post
Still can't understand why people let Asc & App win the rounds constantly. Imo everyone should hit them from PT0 till the last tick of round. Would be fun to know how these alliances always find someone to follow/obey them and let them live :/
They're not choosing to lose to us, they just do.
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Unread 6 Dec 2009, 22:12   #248
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Re: Round 34 officially over

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Originally Posted by Gio2k View Post
Its already quite clear that your definition of a block is different than mine. I also said that in my opinion there has not been a real block war since about r11 or so.
rd11 had no block war, just 1up owning everyone. rd10.5 on the other hand...
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Unread 7 Dec 2009, 00:52   #249
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Re: Round 34 officially over

I ROFL at the suggestion that both ASC and APP will win the round as they are part of the same block. That ASC feeds this bullshit to APP I understand, they're in the position to do it, but that APP is swallowing it as if it was a divine nectar, that's just unbelievable.
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Unread 7 Dec 2009, 00:59   #250
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Re: Round 34 officially over

I think you have to seriously question the value of a win derived, not from your own quality in any sense, but merely from the fact a bunch of other alliances don't want a lot of incoming for the rest of the round.
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