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Unread 25 Jun 2012, 12:36   #51
Paisley
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Remy View Post
mz, yes out of tag defence was banned ages ago, but you can always ally yourself with a 2nd tag, which would make it possible (but with the no -1 penalty of course :-))
as a result of out of tag you get a fi/co heavy round to negate the eta differences.
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Unread 25 Jun 2012, 16:05   #52
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Truhatred View Post
Spinner if your actually talking about making players pay more $ into the game for the advantages instead of having bigger number allies. I don't think that would work. We already put in 7$(US dollars) a round and sometimes I donate 10$ or more a round for sms credits. I like how the basic functions of the game are now, I just think we need more players or better structure of players in the top allies.(basically more than 3 top allies) Weather that means ally limits lower or two medium allies merge their best people together.
I know u must be pretty new to the game, but when was there more than 3 top allies realy?
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Unread 25 Jun 2012, 16:10   #53
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Spinner View Post
I meant ingame resources, yes, as a "diplomatic upkeep". That grows with the size of your alliance. So if you are in a 30-member alliance, all your income is reduced by 5%. If you are in a 50 members alliance, they are reduced by 7%. Etc. That way, the extra benefit comes with an extra pricetag, for balance.
This... sounds like a suggestion I've heard before. I think Heartless once proposed it. I don't remember what I said back then, but this sounds pretty good.

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Originally Posted by Remy View Post
mz, yes out of tag defence was banned ages ago, but you can always ally yourself with a 2nd tag, which would make it possible (but with the no -1 penalty of course :-))
I hadn't thought of that. Makes sense.
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Unread 25 Jun 2012, 16:40   #54
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I know u must be pretty new to the game, but when was there more than 3 top allies realy?
Just started yesterday brosky! let me tell ya...

When did the game actually pull people in to play?
I never said "Oh back in the day there were all these allies competing for #1".
I simply am saying to make the game more lively some changes like these would need to be made.

And TBH, if I was a new player you should be talking into account what I have to say if you wanted to keep the game a float. New players is what this game
needs.
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Unread 25 Jun 2012, 23:22   #55
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
If one (or more) of the "top" alliances can't find anyone to DC incs now, how do we expect double the number of alliances to find DCs?
Simple. Stop babysitting your members and teach them how to it themselves. DLR has 30 members and generally 27/30 are fully competent DCs and the three that aren't are just too new to the game and need a round or two of experience.
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Unread 25 Jun 2012, 23:24   #56
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Remy View Post
Seconded, stop the useless thread pls, been onver this a tons of times, it's not even funny anymore
I don't see how maintaing the status quo is helpful, especially when the current status quo is failing and killing the game. Maybe that's what everyone wants? /tinfoil hat
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Unread 25 Jun 2012, 23:34   #57
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Paisley View Post
as a result of out of tag you get a fi/co heavy round to negate the eta differences.
... and numerous times the suggestion of switching hulls 1 with hulls 3 eta's to make higher tech level the faster travel time, and there has been more consensus around that change than ally size yet nothing has happened. Doesn't really give me any faith that anything will ever change about this game in time to save it, too much apathy among the community and staff to get the changes made.
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 04:32   #58
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Truhatred View Post
Just started yesterday brosky! let me tell ya...

When did the game actually pull people in to play?
I never said "Oh back in the day there were all these allies competing for #1".
I simply am saying to make the game more lively some changes like these would need to be made.

And TBH, if I was a new player you should be talking into account what I have to say if you wanted to keep the game a float. New players is what this game
needs.
Well i think the best way to keep new players in the game is trying to make em as sucsessfull as possibole, and by that i mean, if they play with the best group, or with a good group, its more likely they will do good, and more likely stick around.
Nobody/not many want to play a game they are constantly loosing at.
Cutting alliance limits will make it harder for new players to get into the winning group.
Just look at galaxies these days, how many of the gals in top5 has any new players in it?
Or players that hasnt played the any of the last 10 rounds?
I understand how and why you got your opinions, but sorry, im 99,99% sure that your solution will only make the game worse.
Can a moderator please close this thread now?
Lets rather use our time readign through the old threads about this topic, or discuss something else
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 04:44   #59
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
...
Can a moderator please close this thread now?
Lets rather use our time readign through the old threads about this topic, or discuss something else
Sure, shut down the discussion if it's one you don't like.

I'm okay with moderator merging this thread with others on similar subject though.
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 05:08   #60
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by budious View Post
Sure, shut down the discussion if it's one you don't like.

I'm okay with moderator merging this thread with others on similar subject though.
I like the discussion, i just dont like the opinions Thruhatred is putting forward, PA crew/Jagex or who ever is in charge might think this is a good idea, but it is not, if the goal is to attract new players. Anyone with a slight bit of normal common sense would see that getting new players integrated with the community and the game is NOT to make it harder to get into a decent group/ally. Im sure if the limit is 35, i will have a hard time myself trying to find a top alliance willing to take me in, even though im not new to the game.
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 12:32   #61
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Re: Ally limits

I also think that closing down the thread would be no loss in any way. It has been discussed so much that it isnt funny anymore. And nothing ever comes from it, ever.

But i would not ask for a thread to be closed, thats a mods job. On some forums, asking a moderator to do something results in a ban, you know?
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 12:38   #62
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Well i think the best way to keep new players in the game is trying to make em as sucsessfull as possibole, and by that i mean, if they play with the best group, or with a good group, its more likely they will do good, and more likely stick around....
How do you even think they will get into the best group lol? Considering to join CT/Ult/Haven you most likely have to know 2 people in each that will vouch for you being a GOOD player not a NEW player. And by breaking down allies it wouldnt make this harder due to the fact there would be way more people to attk. So the NEW players in lower end allies might be able to actually play rather than get bashed because there would be 6-8 alliances duking it out constantly.
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 12:40   #63
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I like the discussion, i just dont like the opinions Thruhatred is putting forward, PA crew/Jagex or who ever is in charge might think this is a good idea, but it is not, if the goal is to attract new players. Anyone with a slight bit of normal common sense would see that getting new players integrated with the community and the game is NOT to make it harder to get into a decent group/ally. Im sure if the limit is 35, i will have a hard time myself trying to find a top alliance willing to take me in, even though im not new to the game.
Then make a new one with people like myself. That would be the whole point of the process.

And I don't expect everyone to agree with my opinion, but I don't think you really should shoot it down so hastely. Also I said before getting 2 of the mediocre allies to merge and create a 4th competing ally would also work but people would have to choose to do that. If you lowered ally limits people would pretty much be forced to do that.
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 12:45   #64
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
I like the discussion, i just dont like the opinions Thruhatred is putting forward
That is a terrible reason to have a thread closed.
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 13:27   #65
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by budious View Post
Simple. Stop babysitting your members and teach them how to it themselves. DLR has 30 members and generally 27/30 are fully competent DCs and the three that aren't are just too new to the game and need a round or two of experience.
Really? Many people these days don't wish to put in the effort. They join alliances to have "stuff like that" done for them. (I'm not saying that's how it should be - but it is what happens).

As for DLR, it might almost be worth reducing the alliance limits so that they become a potential threat to the "big boys" again (after keeping themselves off the radar with artificially low numbers for many rounds). We'd be able to see how well their 27-30 DCs cope with genuine incomings. Then again, DLR would probably cut their numbers to 15 to avoid that possibility.
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 15:07   #66
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by ArcChas View Post
Really? Many people these days don't wish to put in the effort. They join alliances to have "stuff like that" done for them. (I'm not saying that's how it should be - but it is what happens).
It's the delusion of elitism that some of you have that you are above and so far beyond the capacity of the average planetarion player that contributes to the death of this game. The average player can be informed and manage their own planets and incomings when they are allowed to do so, but the infrastructure of many of the large legacy alliances implies that hands must be held and the lackeys most remain out of the loop and in the dark on alliance politics. So feel smug in your inner closed circle, and keep recruiting dimwits to feel your ranks if you like the illusion of power it brings you.
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 16:28   #67
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by budious View Post
It's the delusion of elitism that some of you have that you are above and so far beyond the capacity of the average planetarion player that contributes to the death of this game. The average player can be informed and manage their own planets and incomings when they are allowed to do so, but the infrastructure of many of the large legacy alliances implies that hands must be held and the lackeys most remain out of the loop and in the dark on alliance politics. So feel smug in your inner closed circle, and keep recruiting dimwits to feel your ranks if you like the illusion of power it brings you.
I disagree, in most alliances these days, ANYONE can dc etc.

Most chose not to and end up letting the few do it

Archaos is right
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 16:40   #68
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by ArcChas
Really? Many people these days don't wish to put in the effort. They join alliances to have "stuff like that" done for them. (I'm not saying that's how it should be - but it is what happens).

As for DLR, it might almost be worth reducing the alliance limits so that they become a potential threat to the "big boys" again (after keeping themselves off the radar with artificially low numbers for many rounds). We'd be able to see how well their 27-30 DCs cope with genuine incomings. Then again, DLR would probably cut their numbers to 15 to avoid that possibility.
They did try to play a round with a equal sized tag as the other top alliances a few rounds back, went horrible for them though
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 19:50   #69
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Re: Ally limits

So basicly u just wanna make bigger block against 35 ult members instead of 70.

God and I thought we were the desperate ones...
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 22:02   #70
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Re: Ally limits

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They did try to play a round with a equal sized tag as the other top alliances a few rounds back, went horrible for them though
A bit of revisionist history there, it was a mid-round merge with Insomnia. Two different ally cultures and mismatch of races and class types. Things could have gone smoother, but we didn't recruit or plan to play a full tag that round.

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So basicly u just wanna make bigger block against 35 ult members instead of 70.

God and I thought we were the desperate ones...
The idea is that you have two (and more) equally competitive alliances formed from your old alliance, and along with the rest of the universe, divide into distinct and finite blocks of players that can maintain tighter rankings and raise overall competitiveness. Picking on one alliance will knock it down too quickly which would turn focus onto the next alliance, breaking down any blocks in the process.
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Unread 26 Jun 2012, 23:36   #71
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by budious View Post
It's the delusion of elitism that some of you have that you are above and so far beyond the capacity of the average planetarion player that contributes to the death of this game. The average player can be informed and manage their own planets and incomings when they are allowed to do so, but the infrastructure of many of the large legacy alliances implies that hands must be held and the lackeys most remain out of the loop and in the dark on alliance politics. So feel smug in your inner closed circle, and keep recruiting dimwits to feel your ranks if you like the illusion of power it brings you.
I'd just like to point out that I'm "only" a peon in CT - no elitism here.
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 00:34   #72
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Re: Ally limits

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So basicly u just wanna make bigger block against 35 ult members instead of 70.

God and I thought we were the desperate ones...

I wouldn't want it to be everyone vs ult 35 max ally or 70. I wouldn't want it to be everyone vs CT/Haven/Insert ally here. I want to get away from the fact when 2 top allies team vs the other the whole uni does because they are to afraid of fighting anyone. By making more allies or AT LEAST(I say this again because obviously people dont read)ONE MORE TOP ALLY. This would mean 2 allies like xVx + whoever merge to make a full tag with active members.

Lowering ally limits does the same thing as it will FORCE people into making more allies.
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 05:20   #73
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Re: Ally limits

Will it?

Take CT for instance, the inactives would prob end up quitting and I suspect this would happen for most alliances. So you would end up with a much smaller player base as you lose all those non-hardcore social players.

And if that didn't happen and there were more alliances, albeit smaller, I think it would create MORE blocking, as you would have say, an alliance split such as Ult and one as xVx for instance. The two ult ones would likely be friendly terms as would the two xVx ones, and then these 4 would likely to stay on good terms. And more alliances would likely work with these groups because 'they are only 35 members' etc etc
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 07:19   #74
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Re: Ally limits

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That is a terrible reason to have a thread closed.
Well that isnt the reason for me wanting it closed?
I said its been discussed before, lets not start all over again.
If anything, merge it with the other topics
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 09:18   #75
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Re: Ally limits

If that's not the reason, maybe you shouldn't say that's the reason. If you didn't say the opposite of what you meant to say, this whole "conversation" thing would go much more smoothly.
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 11:53   #76
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Re: Ally limits

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Will it?

Take CT for instance, the inactives would prob end up quitting and I suspect this would happen for most alliances. So you would end up with a much smaller player base as you lose all those non-hardcore social players.

And if that didn't happen and there were more alliances, albeit smaller, I think it would create MORE blocking, as you would have say, an alliance split such as Ult and one as xVx for instance. The two ult ones would likely be friendly terms as would the two xVx ones, and then these 4 would likely to stay on good terms. And more alliances would likely work with these groups because 'they are only 35 members' etc etc
I am aware of everyone's Theorycraft. This would also be the reason I state my other suggestion within the thread about players making a 4th competing alliance to get away from 3.

You say people will quit if allies get smaller.... Ok? People are quitting right now because nothing is changing. Whats the difference. Yes if Ult split into 2 allies they would most likely be friendly same with haven ct xvx. But they are unable to defend between the alliances making it so if you were to have a 3 man block on each side each block could target 1 35 man ally and do some serious damage... (Notice how i say each block not just one sided.) wow amazing how that works huh.
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 13:17   #77
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Truhatred View Post
You say people will quit if allies get smaller.... Ok?
The idea is that people would quit if they no longer get to play with their friends. More than quit now.



On the bright side, there continues to be just as little evidence that the game would suffer or improve from lower tag limits as there is that it would suffer or improve from higher tag limits.

None, to be exact.

I guess it's just amusing to me that you'd accuse someone of theory crafting when you're doing the exact same thing yourself. Not only that, you're all ignoring the actual evidence that you're both flatly wrong. It's the little things in life.
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 17:47   #78
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
If that's not the reason, maybe you shouldn't say that's the reason. If you didn't say the opposite of what you meant to say, this whole "conversation" thing would go much more smoothly.
U must have misunderstood my posts, but i think that is what u like to do
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 18:44   #79
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Can a moderator please close this thread now?
Lets rather use our time readign through the old threads about this topic, or discuss something else
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Originally Posted by budious View Post
Sure, shut down the discussion if it's one you don't like.

I'm okay with moderator merging this thread with others on similar subject though.
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I like the discussion, i just dont like the opinions Thruhatred is putting forward, PA crew/Jagex or who ever is in charge might think this is a good idea, but it is not, if the goal is to attract new players.
If you didn't mean to say "this thread should be closed because I don't like Truhatred's opinions", then you are even worse at expressing yourself than I already knew you were.

And that's fine! Really, I don't mind! I just wish you'd stop going around denying you said something when you clearly did. It's not the first time and it always makes for very tedious meta-discussions.
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 20:28   #80
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
The idea is that people would quit if they no longer get to play with their friends. More than quit now.



On the bright side, there continues to be just as little evidence that the game would suffer or improve from lower tag limits as there is that it would suffer or improve from higher tag limits.

None, to be exact.

I guess it's just amusing to me that you'd accuse someone of theory crafting when you're doing the exact same thing yourself. Not only that, you're all ignoring the actual evidence that you're both flatly wrong. It's the little things in life.
Either way tho the game loses members and if you want to talk odds and potentional odds like poker Im down. The odds that I quit(I know that me quitting is hardly making anyone upset but thats not the point) if the game doesn't "change" weather it be 2 allies merge to make a 4th competing ally or smaller alliances. I don't care what happens as long as theres a change. No change though, I will quit 100% so this is a loss of 1 player. If it changes and i stay I will most likely try to bring 3 players back from DLR and 2-3 RL friends. This is a potential gain of 5-6 players instead of a loss of 6-7. If the game stays where it is I don't see any odds or potential odds that players will stay of leaving. This is an OPINION though, hence why its under the "suggestion" forums.

As far as the theory crafting statement, I prob shouldn't of said it like that tbh. Though both sides are just making theory crafting statements and like you said there is little to no evidence that changing alliance size in any way will help the game. There is no evidence because it hasn't been done. You can't always create data when you have no trial runs to gain the data.
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 22:59   #81
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
If you didn't mean to say "this thread should be closed because I don't like Truhatred's opinions", then you are even worse at expressing yourself than I already knew you were.

And that's fine! Really, I don't mind! I just wish you'd stop going around denying you said something when you clearly did. It's not the first time and it always makes for very tedious meta-discussions.
No thats not what i meant to say, i meant that we allready have enough threads about this, and allready a lot of opinions of diffrent induviduals to make up a opinion if this is something that the community wants for PA, wich this forum section is for.
And if thruhatred want to put forward his arguments, wich i think has been put forward by others before, in the other threads, he should do it then, instead of bringing up a new thread about the subject.
I want limitless alliances, should i make a thread for my special view?
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 23:02   #82
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Truhatred View Post
Either way tho the game loses members and if you want to talk odds and potentional odds like poker Im down. The odds that I quit(I know that me quitting is hardly making anyone upset but thats not the point) if the game doesn't "change" weather it be 2 allies merge to make a 4th competing ally or smaller alliances. I don't care what happens as long as theres a change. No change though, I will quit 100% so this is a loss of 1 player. If it changes and i stay I will most likely try to bring 3 players back from DLR and 2-3 RL friends. This is a potential gain of 5-6 players instead of a loss of 6-7. If the game stays where it is I don't see any odds or potential odds that players will stay of leaving. This is an OPINION though, hence why its under the "suggestion" forums.

As far as the theory crafting statement, I prob shouldn't of said it like that tbh. Though both sides are just making theory crafting statements and like you said there is little to no evidence that changing alliance size in any way will help the game. There is no evidence because it hasn't been done. You can't always create data when you have no trial runs to gain the data.
Well then we have to break down ur arguments to wether there would be more competeting alliances if there were smaller and more alliances?
Was this true in the past when there was a lot more alliances with member count up to 80/10 what ever?
Will there be a bigger chance for a new player to get into a top position if there are MORE alliances competing for the top spots?
Is it more likely for a new player, or the majority of the playbase to suceed in a bigger alliance?
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Unread 27 Jun 2012, 23:32   #83
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Truhatred View Post
There is no evidence because it hasn't been done. You can't always create data when you have no trial runs to gain the data.
Tag sizes have been changed many times and the evidence shows that it has no effect on the numbers of people playing. Ignore the evidence as much as you like - but please don't pretend that it doesn't exist.
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 03:35   #84
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Re: Ally limits

if thats the case then xVx recruit 30 more people to have a good number to compete vs the other 3 major allies. yes?
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 03:36   #85
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Re: Ally limits

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if thats the case then xVx recruit 30 more people to have a good number to compete vs the other 3 major allies. yes?

When was the last round tag sizes were at 35? and I will look at that data then.
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 03:40   #86
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Re: Ally limits

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Well then we have to break down ur arguments to wether there would be more competeting alliances if there were smaller and more alliances?
Was this true in the past when there was a lot more alliances with member count up to 80/10 what ever?
Will there be a bigger chance for a new player to get into a top position if there are MORE alliances competing for the top spots?
Is it more likely for a new player, or the majority of the playbase to suceed in a bigger alliance?
To be honest it would be easier for new players to get a top position due to the fact the major allies should be at a constant war with each other which would allow the smaller(not as skilled) alliances to get roids to catch up to the top dogs. And don't even get started about "new players" joining bigger allies. If your new to the game your lucky if you even get into a 50 man ally unless your friends with someone in a good ally. The player base of this game is so old that you exclude so many new players just cuz you dont know their name.
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 03:41   #87
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Re: Ally limits

Your not going to change my Opinion on this matter. And so far all that has been proved in this post is that theres about 3-4 people for it according to the posts and 3-4 against it and 1-3 people that dont give a shit and just like conflict.

The Ultimate point is this is a dying game so change something or just cut the head off and stop letting it bleed to death.
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 04:25   #88
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Re: Ally limits

http://www.clawofdarkness.com/pawiki...Alliance_Ranks
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 04:37   #89
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Truhatred View Post
To be honest it would be easier for new players to get a top position due to the fact the major allies should be at a constant war with each other which would allow the smaller(not as skilled) alliances to get roids to catch up to the top dogs. And don't even get started about "new players" joining bigger allies. If your new to the game your lucky if you even get into a 50 man ally unless your friends with someone in a good ally. The player base of this game is so old that you exclude so many new players just cuz you dont know their name.
Now you're just being ridiculous. The "smaller (not as skilled) alliances" only serve as farms for the "major" alliances. The only difference that war makes is that the gap between raids is a little longer so they gain a few extra roids before losing them all again. Spreading the top players out among more (smaller) alliances won't make the slightest difference to the players at the bottom of the pile - it will only make it more likely that the "rejects" from the top alliances will quit (rather than move down the tree).
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 05:41   #90
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Truhatred View Post
And don't even get started about "new players" joining bigger allies. If your new to the game your lucky if you even get into a 50 man ally unless your friends with someone in a good ally. The player base of this game is so old that you exclude so many new players just cuz you dont know their name.
And this comes down to the crux of the problem with PA and imo the main reason it is shrinking.

I see it ever since the early days. You get a new player, he is a newb and he just ends up getting exiled about until he is in c200 and doesn't bother logging in any more.
Players just don't do enough to help new players.

It isn't even that hard. To give an example, we have a guy in my gal this round, who had a terrible fleet composition, didn't have the correct res/cons etc etc. He attacked nightly, but always solo so had only 200 roids as never landed.
I spent an hour with him and now he has a pretty good fleet.
He also has 1k roids.
This was aided by a top 7 alliance accepting him in, as I was able to speak with HC and explain that I would support and guide him.
He is doing well now and doesn't need guidance from me, and we potentially kept a player who would have quit and left the game. It took an hour of my time.
If everyone did this, the game would have a much bigger player base

But they won't, it won't and the playerbase will continue to struggle.

Alliance limits will make this WORSE. The 'rejects' from the top alliances will either quit or filter down. If they filter down they will take the spots from the newer players and remove the chance of them being allowed a chance at an alliance
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 06:00   #91
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Forest
And this comes down to the crux of the problem with PA and imo the main reason it is shrinking.

I see it ever since the early days. You get a new player, he is a newb and he just ends up getting exiled about until he is in c200 and doesn't bother logging in any more.
Players just don't do enough to help new players.

It isn't even that hard. To give an example, we have a guy in my gal this round, who had a terrible fleet composition, didn't have the correct res/cons etc etc. He attacked nightly, but always solo so had only 200 roids as never landed.
I spent an hour with him and now he has a pretty good fleet.
He also has 1k roids.
This was aided by a top 7 alliance accepting him in, as I was able to speak with HC and explain that I would support and guide him.
He is doing well now and doesn't need guidance from me, and we potentially kept a player who would have quit and left the game. It took an hour of my time.
If everyone did this, the game would have a much bigger player base

But they won't, it won't and the playerbase will continue to struggle.

Alliance limits will make this WORSE. The 'rejects' from the top alliances will either quit or filter down. If they filter down they will take the spots from the newer players and remove the chance of them being allowed a chance at an alliance

Most of the people like that don't want help / don't want to get involved in irc/alliances and so on
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 07:18   #92
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Re: Ally limits

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Most of the people like that don't want help / don't want to get involved in irc/alliances and so on
Really?
Have you tried much?

I know there is a large percentage that don't, but I manage to find someone like that in my gal just about every single round and place them in an alliance. Alliances such as ToF, Rock, ND can vouch for that.

I doubt very much I have been so lucky as to get a free newbie in my gal every round willing to learn when no-one else gets one
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 07:27   #93
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Re: Ally limits

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Originally Posted by Forest
Really?
Have you tried much?

I know there is a large percentage that don't, but I manage to find someone like that in my gal just about every single round and place them in an alliance. Alliances such as ToF, Rock, ND can vouch for that.

I doubt very much I have been so lucky as to get a free newbie in my gal every round willing to learn when no-one else gets one
It's not about trying when they don't want to be helped!

And yes, an example is a guy who is currently in my alliance, who has finished t15 several times after i got him setup in his first round.
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 09:33   #94
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Re: Ally limits

As much as it pains me to say it, there is one argument in favour of lower tag limits that holds some water, that (to my knowledge) has not been made yet: the fact is that we have never had a lower ratio of [size of universe]] : [tag limit] than we do now. Back in round 23, we had 1689 players and a tag limit of 70 (ratio 24.13). That means that if everyone was in an alliance, we'd have 24 full tags. That ratio has halved since then. The last time we topped a ratio of 20 was round 33 (1447 players, tag limit 70). Ignoring free rounds, the last time we topped a ratio of 15 was round 35 (1247 players, tag limit 70). Round 46 had a ratio of 12.04 (963 players, tag limit 80).

However, I'm not sure if you can look at just the ratio of total players to tag limit and use that to support the notion that lower tag limits would be better, there are more factors to take into account.

One such factor is that there has been a change in the quality of the players, not just in the quantity. Back in round 24, 59% of the players was either not in a tag, or in a tag with fewer than 40 players. That number has dropped since then to 45% in round 46. In that time, the number of 'farms' has dropped by 56% (998 to 437), while the number of alliance players has only dropped by 24% (691 to 526).

I was going to write a short conclusion here, but I can't think of one, and that's rather fitting. There are no easy solutions here, and none of the ideas that aspire to becoming such a solution will have any significant impact on the game.
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 22:07   #95
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Re: Ally limits

I guess at the end of the day it might not matter about alliance size. I guess I am just unhappy with how the last few rounds have played out and want to see some sort of change. I don't have much interest in staying up every night for 2 weeks straight or longer to dc my own incs. The length of wars is getting a bit ridiculous. But O well. I won't argue for lower ally limits anymore if you all really don't think they will change the game.
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Unread 18 Jul 2012, 16:11   #96
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Re: Ally limits

Thought I would comment seeing as just read that alliance limit is going to be 60....but sadly 60 count towards the score. Would say perfect mix for a round to see if it works would be. 60 alliance limit but 45/50 count towards the score.

I am really bored of PA, only reason I am playing active is I stupidly bought quite a few credits.....a mix up like alliance limits would in my opinion change the game enough for me to keep playing and bring some mates into the game. As it stands I wouldn't introduce a mate to this game, they would leave after a week.

Just for one round do something crazy, throw some other stuff in there, like disable alliance relations. The game cant get much worse?? Can it? All the peeps who cant stand the idea of reducing alliance tag limit, have a round off, you deserve it
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Unread 18 Jul 2012, 16:32   #97
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Re: Ally limits

I totally agree with this proposal. The game is dying as it is, with less players every round. Why, because it has become boring, it is static. It has to break free from the conservatives mind that has been opposing suggestions like this for several rounds now. If I recall correctly this suggestion first came around round 18 and it still hasn't been implemented and it still returns.

So it would say try it for a round or two. Let's commence the mayhem, if it doesn't work then rollback to the regular size alliance. I expect that smaller tags will bring back the excitement and with that more players.
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Unread 18 Jul 2012, 17:55   #98
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Re: Ally limits

this subject comes up every single round and the outcome of all the arguings is the same - nothing actually changes..

i once hoped that something drastic was done as well, after seeing that the game play today is so dull, however nothing has been done to improve things at all..

so, just play another round until it gets closed or u REALLY get tired of all of this.
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Unread 18 Jul 2012, 18:12   #99
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Re: Ally limits

This change makes the game worse.
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Unread 18 Jul 2012, 18:25   #100
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Re: Ally limits

Just means scanners and such will be forced to play outside of tags again and the whole "support planet rule" will come back with a vengeance.

The cushion of planets not counting was there for a good reason - I don't agree with that being removed.

But I suppose with the same 3 vocal people keep whining about alliance limits, something is bound to change no matter how the rest of the community feels about it.

After all... look what happened when a couple people whined about the pre-launch change a couple rounds ago...
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