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30 Jun 2003, 00:01
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#1
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Oh Canada!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Canada #eh?
Posts: 1,466
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Katharine Hepburn dies at 96
there you have it
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If I could be a bird, I'd be a Flying Purple People Eater because then people would sing about me and I could fly down and eat them because I hate that song.
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30 Jun 2003, 00:15
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#2
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7 Dimensional Puddleduck
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Not where I want to be :(
Posts: 1,556
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In a post such as this a linky is expected...
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<CmdrCyrax> I'm sure GDers are bastions of the civilized world. 
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30 Jun 2003, 00:16
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#3
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Twisted
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Down with the sickness
Posts: 2,484
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:(
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Me
In my sleep I grind my teeth.
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30 Jun 2003, 05:12
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#5
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etc.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Taken.
Posts: 1,602
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CAPTAIN KATHERINE JANEWAY.
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10/20/04 <Dinoman> babies are like a online game... u wery soon get lack of sleep... and u try give em diffrent skills... it allso kills ur social life
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30 Jun 2003, 05:34
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#6
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root vegetable.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 75
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O_o
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30 Jun 2003, 08:33
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#7
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Child Eating Zombie Clown
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,450
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It gets better!
STROM THURMOND FINALLY DEAD AT 100!
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Mirai - An Astral Being From Outer Space
Die You Bitch Minister of Insanity - "Timete Nostrum Piscem Furoris"
My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever, we begin bombing in 5 minutes - President Ronald Reagan, in a radio check where he did not realize the microphone was on and the station broadcasting
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30 Jun 2003, 16:52
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#8
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Aardvark is a funny word
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: I'm No Nino Rota
Posts: 5,923
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mirai
It gets better!
STROM THURMOND FINALLY DEAD AT 100!
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it occurs to me that we probably haven't yet had a celebratory thread here yet. Oh well, w00t. 
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Efficiency, efficiency they say
Get to know the date and tell the time of day
As the crowds begin complaining
How the Beaujolais is raining
Down on darkened meetings on the Champs Élysées
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1 Jul 2003, 00:28
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#9
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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What's with the anti-Strom Thurmond feeling? Yay, an honest politican has died, let's celebrate!
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1 Jul 2003, 00:39
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#10
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: autogenic misery
Posts: 872
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we are not an internet orbituary section.
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1 Jul 2003, 00:55
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#11
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Damn Dog
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,249
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"that's a stupid thing to say and you're a stupid person for saying it."
the tolling gang
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1 Jul 2003, 01:09
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#12
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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OK... so it's the "omg racist!!!!11" reaction?
Yes. He's a conservative. They think politicans should represent the interests of their constituency and crazy stuff like that. See, if what he's saying was true, that removing segregation would have significant bad effects on national defence, then segregation was the correct thing to do. It's hard to judge who was right; the correct thing to do would be to do fair trials of both systems and see which was best. Maybe different rules would be appropriate for different regions, who knows. But no-one wants a scientific trial cos that might lead to truth. To be honest, it seems a bit silly for a 15-year-old (!) and a 19-year-old to judge a person for the political situation fifty years ago. IMO.
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1 Jul 2003, 06:26
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#13
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
To be honest, it seems a bit silly for a 15-year-old (!) and a 19-year-old to judge a person for the political situation fifty years ago. IMO.
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I agree that it's silly to "hate" someone in such a context, but that could be said about any individual through history. Yes, loads of people were racist then so it's OK to have been racist.
Anyway, the issue isn't segregation, it's inequality. The court's "seperate, but equal" principal probably would have been upheld if education (and everything else) if it had been equal. But it wasn't, by a long shot, so the whole system got torn down. This is the problem with racists. Not only do they want to be seperate from other groups (which is fair enough) but they want to better than all other grops, and often use violence to keep the economic advancement of others back.
Blacks in the south didn't want to sit in white parts of the bus (or whatever) because they loved sitting with their white brothers. They wanted to do so (a) because the white people had a blatant advantage and (b) because there was no black bus service of equal standard.
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1 Jul 2003, 06:48
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#14
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Luminous Flux
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Fargo, ND
Posts: 215
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They should have just dumped the old guy out of his wheelchair into a black neighborhood somewhere and watched how long he lasted. Any sort of racism is absurd when you put it into perspective, in any time and any place. Anyone who doesn't have the ability to do that shouldn't be in a position of power. Good riddance Mr Thurmond, I hope it hurt.
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Cuddley_Battleship
Your neg rep destination.
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1 Jul 2003, 13:08
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#15
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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It's not racist to promote discrimination in the army based purely on utility. Think positive discrimination. If "equality" was so successful then why did Truman have to introduce conscription at the same time?
Imagine it's the late 1940's. Say some black men came to your party and started offering you some pills, telling you that they'd make your life better, make you happy, etc. No-one really knows whether to take them or not, so some people take them and some don't. Strom was the kind of guy who didn't take dodgy drugs. These pills were the civil rights movement. When it turned out they were good ****, then he took them too. That proves he's open minded but has enough principles to do what he thinks is right in spite of name-calling liberals.
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1 Jul 2003, 13:27
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#16
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
It's not racist to promote discrimination in the army based purely on utility. Think positive discrimination. If "equality" was so successful then why did Truman have to introduce conscription at the same time?
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You're implying utility somehow outweighs justice, which is clearly tosh.
Equality wasn't "sucessful" (I'm not sure what you even mean by this btw) because it was militantly opposed with violence, vote rigging, gerrymandering and plain old fillibustering. People like Strom were standing in the way of equality, it just happened in this case they were in the losing side as they were against the violence of the state.
Being wrong is no crime. And if this was a matter of utility (a rational argument) then you might have a point. But it's not. It's simply one of taste. The practical effects of racial integration are secondary : people opposed racial integration because they saw it as a "bad thing" in and of itself.
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1 Jul 2003, 14:06
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#17
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dante Hicks
You're implying utility somehow outweighs justice, which is clearly tosh.
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Erm, by definition? Certainly when it comes to the army. Armies tend to lag at least twenty years behind their country in terms of civil rights because they have to place the good of the country in fromt of aesthetics. It's the same sort of reason that Debian Stable doesn't have KDE3.
Quote:
Equality wasn't "sucessful" (I'm not sure what you even mean by this btw)
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Whether the restrictions imposed lead to a better country, more freedom, more efficiency, etc.
Quote:
Being wrong is no crime. And if this was a matter of utility (a rational argument) then you might have a point. But it's not. It's simply one of taste. The practical effects of racial integration are secondary : people opposed racial integration because they saw it as a "bad thing" in and of itself.
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Same sort of argument that the feelings of animal protesters are more important than ecology? Well, I have a different taste, I dislike centralisation. Obviously I don't know much about this particular guy but the reaction interests me:
Was everyone who fought for the South in the American Civil War a racist? Even the blacks?
Is the only acceptable representative for a largely racist country one who won't get elected?
Is it cause for celebration when any racist dies, eg John Nash (from A Beautiful Mind)?
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2 Jul 2003, 08:15
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#18
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Clerk
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,940
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Quote:
Originally posted by queball
Erm, by definition? Certainly when it comes to the army. Armies tend to lag at least twenty years behind their country in terms of civil rights because they have to place the good of the country in fromt of aesthetics. It's the same sort of reason that Debian Stable doesn't have KDE3.
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Which again, is implying the efficiency of the army is something worth worrying about. The efficiency of some trained killers isn't something I'd rate above living in an equal/fair society.
Quote:
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Whether the restrictions imposed lead to a better country, more freedom, more efficiency, etc.
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You can see civil rights as restrictions, but a lot of the fight was to reduce restrictions (i.e. legal interference) in people's lives. The fact it was black people doesn't make the freedom issue any less important, of course. I blame some of the bizarre terms in the discourse on the American right who have managed to make civil rights into freedom (for racist violent state reactionaries) against the opressions (by the evil black people)
Quote:
Was everyone who fought for the South in the American Civil War a racist? Even the blacks?
Is the only acceptable representative for a largely racist country one who won't get elected?[/b]
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I personally only celebreate when there is some practical advantage conferred. So I wouldn't celebrate, no. Others might, that's their business.
Making it out this is some kind of issue of representation is disenguine. What if the country is primarily anti-freedom (or anti-freedom for a set issue, or set number of people). Does that make an elected representative who is violently anti-freedom any better? It's kind of on the moral level of "I was only following orders".
p.s. Sorry for the bump, I failed to notice this reply.
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2 Jul 2003, 14:17
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#19
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Ball
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,410
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"I personally only celebreate when there is some practical advantage conferred."
OK, same. I'm not good at judging people, I'm more of a forgiver. I'm a lot like Jesus that way.
Here's an external link!
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/6/27/154228/901
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