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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 17:37   #1
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Secret Questions

Starting today I noticed the appearance of the secret questions have changed. The first question I had this morning was so big it did not fit in the picture square, and the second one I had the "scratches" was so abrasive and the contrast between the background and the text was so little that I could not read the question.

Anyone else notice the login questions being far more difficult to read?
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 17:42   #2
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Re: Secret Questions

Yep, they seem to have decided that keeping the bots out is not enough and that multies can still log into their various accounts so have come up with these ingeneous new player stopper questions, soon noone will be able to log in and there will be no more cheating. viva la stopper.
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 17:49   #3
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Re: Secret Questions

I never had much problem with them. Except when I'm drunk or when it's too early in the morning.
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 18:01   #4
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Re: Secret Questions

I thought the font was different, turns out it was.
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 18:18   #5
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Re: Secret Questions

They seem to be using a few different fonts, of different sizes, some of the questions are now so large they don't fit anymore leaving me with 'If the first day of the week is monday' as my question in one case.
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 18:23   #6
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Re: Secret Questions

I always do all non numerical questions wrong anyway..
So nothing has changed for me
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 18:26   #7
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Re: Secret Questions

I was about to make a post about this. I attempted to log on this morning 3 times, and could not read the fonts AT all... especially the serif fonts. So by fear of losing login privledges, I missed a construction tick. Well done... The anti bot log-in works well enough and this change is redundant. Enough already, change it back.

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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 18:30   #8
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Re: Secret Questions

Failed log-in 10 times in a row will lock your account, you really need to be shit to get that many wrong...
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 18:34   #9
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Re: Secret Questions

if you cant read the question , just refresh the page to get a different one.
this atm is just a temporary change until the new bot stopper system is done from what i heard in #planetarion today
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 18:52   #10
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Re: Secret Questions

well the idea is to make it simple for us now isn`t it..this is just silly if you ask me...there was one i couldn`t even read, and to be honest..to start refreshing pages over and over again is VERY boring.
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 19:01   #11
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Re: Secret Questions

no, the idea is to stop bots from logging in. the bot stopper being simple/easy to use takes second place to this for obvious reasons
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 19:20   #12
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Re: Secret Questions

I heard someone got into the botstopper admin and changed the fonts, actually. It isn't supposed to be like that.
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Unread 30 Jan 2006, 19:37   #13
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Re: Secret Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggin
Well done... The anti bot log-in works well enough and this change is redundant. Enough already, change it back.
Computer says no.

The new Anti-OCR changes are not really any more difficult to defeat. Except perhaps for that absolutely retarded font with hearts in that even I can't read. Why not go all out and use Wingdings?

The method with the inverted text is too large and warps of the end. This you probably know. However, this method actually makes it 100 times easier to remove the ellipse artifacts. The text can then be converted back into B+W with minimal effort, minus the defects that were present in the previous stopper time. The uniform rotation of the phrase to a fixed angle stops nothing.
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Last edited by Raging.Retard; 30 Jan 2006 at 19:45. Reason: Editing because JJ is poop, and SS is still filtered.
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 06:11   #14
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Re: Secret Questions

see if your bot can answer that one: http://www.randal.de/pa/Image1.gif

Planearium ?
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 06:44   #15
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Re: Secret Questions

lol, y not ask the PA-team to answer that one?
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 08:35   #16
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Re: Secret Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by randal
see if your bot can answer that one: http://www.randal.de/pa/Image1.gif

Planearium ?
It shouldn't be too hard for a bot to answer that, because the bot would already know that the answer is 'planetarion'. The question shown only matches that question, so....
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 12:49   #17
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Re: Secret Questions

The questions look like someone's yelling now and it scares me
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 14:12   #18
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Re: Secret Questions

It really should be obvious that stuff like "contrast" only annoys humans - not OCR software. In fact contrast is helping OCR.

Annoying a bot writer with using oodles of TTF fonts, just results in a bigger database for detection and those can be easily build automatically. Whats really annoying with OCR is overlaying and intersecting fonts where the chars (or words) are distorted. To avoid easy automatic generation of font databases, you could write a software which takes 2 or 3 fonts of the same style and automatically generates a new font.

You arent overlaying properly, you arent intersecting and you arent distorting.

On a more general note i think that bots by now are one of the least problems PA has during p2p rounds.
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 14:27   #19
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Re: Secret Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned
It shouldn't be too hard for a bot to answer that, because the bot would already know that the answer is 'planetarion'. The question shown only matches that question, so....
That really depends - my own "PA-OCR" learns to read the text. Then it collects all botstopper questions and parses them into a database. Answers are added later unless the bot cant answer itself anyhow. A bot would view the whole "please type the following word: planetarion" phrase as question so a dumb bot wouldnt recognize a cut-off question.

This however misses an important step - you may not always have 100% detection but it is pretty clear what "please typ the following word: planetarion" means (the "e" from "type" is missing). So your bot login code would usually not look for 100% matches but for "sufficient" matches. Now it depends on what rules you apply to "sufficient" In case "cut off" questions are regularly appearing, you could just add a "sufficient" rule for that.
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 14:31   #20
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Re: Secret Questions

tehn the engilsh trciks on wrods whree olny the frsit and lsat lteters hvae to be in the rghit psoitoin for it to be raed mghit hvae fun wtih any bots ?
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 14:35   #21
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Re: Secret Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
tehn the engilsh trciks on wrods whree olny the frsit and lsat lteters hvae to be in the rghit psoitoin for it to be raed mghit hvae fun wtih any bots ?
Hehe i know that study - one of the interesting ones last year

Well i would try to use a english word database and reverse apply the rule and i guess it would work well as you have the exact length and the first and last letter. Shortly after the study was relased to the public, some eMail spam started using it
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 14:52   #22
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Re: Secret Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
The questions look like someone's yelling now and it scares me
Poor lad.. wanna talk about it?
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 16:28   #23
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Re: Secret Questions

1+2+3 = 6 wrong
is planetarion made by jolt or sony? = jolt wrong

after getting 4-5 answers right, it finally let me login :s
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 16:29   #24
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Re: Secret Questions

the jolt/sony one has two varients. planetarion and playstation - you sure it said planetarion?
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 16:49   #25
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Re: Secret Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
the jolt/sony one has two varients. planetarion and playstation - you sure it said planetarion?
It's Jolt or Nintendo for who makes planetarion.

And Jolt or Sony for who makes playstations.

I think?
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 17:05   #26
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Re: Secret Questions

Think again.
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 17:49   #27
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Re: Secret Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
It's Jolt or Nintendo for who makes planetarion.

And Jolt or Sony for who makes playstations.

I think?
"Who makes Gamecube : Jolt or nintendo"
"Who makes planetarion : Jolt or nintendo"
"Who makes Playstation : Jolt or sony"
"Who makes planetarion : Jolt or sony"

those are the variations for those qus
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 18:03   #28
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Re: Secret Questions

it should be 10 within an hour before you get autoclosed
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 19:38   #29
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Re: Secret Questions

What's most alarming is that idimmu seems to be implying he eventually got one of the questions right.
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 19:42   #30
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Re: Secret Questions

Well theres only so many times you can mash the keyboard with your hamburger fingers before you accidentally type "Yes". This seems to be the answer to about 50% of the questions.
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Unread 31 Jan 2006, 21:38   #31
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Re: Secret Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
it should be 10 within an hour before you get autoclosed
didn't they remove that option as they know this current system is shite?
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Unread 1 Feb 2006, 00:18   #32
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Re: Secret Questions

The questions havent really slipped me up yet, and as someone else said if you dont get it merely refresh the page.
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Unread 1 Feb 2006, 08:38   #33
s7n
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Re: Secret Questions

The new font is so difficult to read Hopefully it will be removed soon...
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Unread 7 Feb 2006, 09:19   #34
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Re: Secret Questions

IS there anyone out there who has a working script to answer these questions?
IF there is I'd like to copy it so that I can login to my (single, manually played) account on a regular basis.

Yes I know it's illegal to use a bot to log in tou your account. But for this I'd be willing to make an exception to my prior conduct of never cheating. Actually being able to log in to the game would be a good thing. And the way it seems to me, a well written scrips has to be better at bypassing the current questions than I am.
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Unread 7 Feb 2006, 09:30   #35
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Re: Secret Questions

cant you just randomly place the words around and have people make up their own sentences and have them chose answers with a one choise dropbox?
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Unread 7 Feb 2006, 19:51   #36
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Re: Secret Questions

Why would that be any harder for an automated program?
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Unread 7 Feb 2006, 20:07   #37
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Re: Secret Questions

Yes, because gosh it is so tiring and difficult to log in 2-3 times and eventually get in. (to those people complaining about the big text)

Come on - if that's your biggest worry and you feel you have to moan on an internet forum about it, you've got a pretty whizzy tops life.

I enjoy it. I especially enjoy it when it's 6am and dark and I can't see my keyboard buttons. It's like a game of russian roulette - will I manage to login?! Will I get locked out of my account?!

It sure makes the game more exciting and fun!
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