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Unread 15 Mar 2013, 15:00   #101
Grimmy
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Still think the War frig should be renamed (somebody pointed out there isn't a Pegasus), and that the Peacekeepers ini seems high (for a xan ship, when compared to Broadsword/mantis).
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Unread 15 Mar 2013, 15:39   #102
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Unless someone points out some glaring oversight, these will be the last changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete list of changes
War Frigate: Arm 27 -> 26
Drake: Arm 28 -> 27
Chimaera: Arm 28 -> 27
Titan: Arm 51 -> 52
Syren: Dmg 34 -> 36
Dreadnaught: Dmg 58 -> 59
Minotaur: ERes 82 -> 81
Lynx: ERes 86 -> 85

Mosquito: ERes 51 -> 52
Dragonfly: ERes 70 -> 73
Hornet: ERes 82 -> 79

Bolt Thrower: Name -> Tzen
Illusion: ERes 38 -> 35
Mirage: ERes 74 -> 68
Vulture: ERes 86 -> 85

Marauder: Dmg 52 -> 53
Ironclad: ERes 87 -> 86

Rambler: ERes 46 -> 43
Merchant: ERes 75 -> 72
Demeter: ERes 76 -> 74
Ter Fr slightly worse, Ter Cr and Bs slightly better, as promised.

ERes on all pods adjusted to match the highest ERes on the ships in their fleet. Example: Xan Fr has the Tzen at 13 and the Bomber at 16. Mirage therefore also has 16 now.

Zik anti-Fr improved slightly.

Updating the beta stats as we speak.
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Unread 16 Mar 2013, 13:26   #103
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Stats are final. And yes.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 19 Mar 2013, 23:07   #104
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

For the record I find these stats horribly defensive. The round will stagnate very quickly with these stats, I expect that whomever has the roid lead after week 4 will win the round barring some crazy political moves.
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Unread 21 Mar 2013, 03:00   #105
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
For the record I find these stats horribly defensive. The round will stagnate very quickly with these stats, I expect that whomever has the roid lead after week 4 will win the round barring some crazy political moves.
Yeah, because that's totally what happened last time right! I still can't believe CT won that round so easily
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Unread 21 Mar 2013, 06:22   #106
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood View Post
Yeah, because that's totally what happened last time right! I still can't believe CT won that round so easily
Well I certainly wouldn't mind CT winning again.... but I'm not looking forward to the massive teamups necessary to land on some of the big planets later in the round. It's going to get ugly. In the end what you are alluding to is certainly true -- namely that politics will have just as much if not more to do with whether the round stagnates or not as the stats will, but still these stats suit a defensive style of play, which is something I personally abhor.

I much preferred last round's stats, they were very well balanced and attack oriented. With MZ at the helm again I was hopeful he would rework the r30 stats in a similar way, but alas it did not come to pass.
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Unread 21 Mar 2013, 07:34   #107
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

The joke.

If I'd had another week, I would've removed the Mantis. On the other hand, Cats died by the hundreds near the end of round 30, so maybe it'll work out in the end. They look really strong on paper, but it still only hugs.
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Unread 21 Mar 2013, 11:13   #108
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Caths are going to get a looooooot of incs. I reckon there will be a lot of top cath planets, and then a lot of caths roided absolutely silly.
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Unread 28 Mar 2013, 12:40   #109
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
The joke.

If I'd had another week, I would've removed the Mantis. On the other hand, Cats died by the hundreds near the end of round 30, so maybe it'll work out in the end. They look really strong on paper, but it still only hugs.
Mzyxptlk

take alook @ this :
Terran FR - fires @ Fi co FR de CR BS = they fire @ all ships that can target them.

Terran CR - fires @ FR/DE BS/Cr = they fire @ all ships that can target them.

terran BS - fires @ FR/DE BS/Cr = they fire @ all ships that can target them.

----------

Cathaar CO - fires @ Fi co FR de = they fire @ all ships that can target them.

Cathaar DE - Fi co FR CR BS = missing DE targeting, but that dont mater becouse the other class that got DE dont target DE either.

Cathaar CR - fires @ FR/DE BS/Cr = they fire @ all ships that can target them.

------------
Xandathrii - FI - fires @ Fi co FR = Missing DE, but you can build pulsars (co) to alest target DE...

Xandathrii - FR - fires @ Fi co FR de CR BS = they fire @ all ships that can target them.

Xandathrii - BS - fires @ FR/DE BS/Cr = they fire @ all ships that can target them.

------------
Zikonian - FR - fires @ Fi co FR CR BS = Missing DE, if zik goes for FR fleet, you could def for free vrs it with Pillager and Scarab, but with current stats not many ziks will even consider going pure FR but Buccaneer is a very good anti BS/cr for them.

Zikonian - CR - fires @ FR/DE BS/Cr = they fire @ all ships that can target them.

--------------
Eitraides - CO - fires @ Fi co FR de = they fire @ all ships that can target them.

Eitraides - FR - fires @ Fi co FR de = missing CR/BS - def with Marauder,Shadow,Roach,Wyvern and Syren for free.

Eitraides - DE - Fi co FR CR BS = missing DE targeting, but that dont mater becouse the other class that got DE dont target DE either.

Eitraides -BS - fires @ DE BS/Cr = missing FR targeting - def with Buccaneer,Bomber and Chimaera for free.


------------

tbh, i think you failed badly when changing the targeting on etd BS ;-) ok you can still fake attack with etd bs, yes but xan can allso fake def vrs it and they do it for free ;-) as etd dont target xan FR.

etd FR can allso be faked, but its easy to send Marauder,Shadow,Roach,Wyvern and Syren that will def for free

etd DE solo fleet, is poor send with an cath and it gets very good.

same goes for etd CO - you need a cath with you for it to be any good.

----------------


i just looked @ stats for 30 min, said Cath looked very strong ;-) and you did them stronger by lowering the E/R.

i should have looked more closely to what you did with ETD, its caths support race this round. alest in round 30 you had BS now you dont even have that.


-----------

finnal word
YES i know i cant type english, but you do understand ?
YES iam playing Etd, and this is from looking @ 7 gal raids i cant attack alone.

/rant out

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Unread 28 Mar 2013, 13:24   #110
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by aif View Post
tbh, i think you failed badly when changing the targeting on etd BS ;-) ok you can still fake attack with etd bs, yes but xan can allso fake def vrs it and they do it for free ;-) as etd dont target xan FR
I explained my rationale for changing Etd Bs earlier in the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aif View Post
etd FR can allso be faked, but its easy to send Marauder,Shadow,Roach,Wyvern and Syren that will def for free
Neither Bs nor Fr is a viable solo fleet. This was intentional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aif View Post
etd DE solo fleet, is poor send with an cath and it gets very good.
Etd De is pretty good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aif View Post
same goes for etd CO - you need a cath with you for it to be any good.
Fi/Co in general is not very good. I was hesistant to boost them too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aif View Post
i just looked @ stats for 30 min, said Cath looked very strong ;-) and you did them stronger by lowering the E/R.
I did not lower any ship's ERes. In fact, I boosted Xan Fi and nerfed the effs on Cat De.

As I said before, if I'd had more time, I would've nerfed Cat further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aif View Post
YES iam playing Etd, and this is from looking @ 7 gal raids i cant attack alone.
Etd is overrepresented in the top 100, so clearly they have no problem capping roids.
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Unread 28 Mar 2013, 15:47   #111
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Realistically even if Kaiba is wrong having someone ranting about something being overpowered is invariably a problem. As such I'd removed the broadsword t3, which was always quite powerful in r30 and made etd planets very difficult to hit. Maybe nerf some etd de efficiencies down as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Hmm. Works for me. The T3 doesn't really help Etd hit anything, anyway.

this is ur reson to take away T3 ??

T3 dont realy help etd hit anything ur kidding ?, this T3 makes all the dif in the world.

i agree that etd bs was to strong as it was, but you could have made the broadsword hit DE/FR, that would have forced etd to build more scoprs. insted of the 80% 20% back in round 30 (did only see 2 fleets, from round 30 but they both had alot of Broad.)

or what had happend if you made scrops hit BS/fr and broad CR/DE, alest then etd would had a chance when attacking.

the way you made it, etd are easyer to hit and they cant hit well solo. with any ships

the stats are so defensiv so that if you lose 10% vaule you cant land.
and for top 100 yes, we are @ tick 138 we will talk agian aorund tick 600-700 and see then. ;-)

22 etd top 100 tick 138. - 22% of top 100 is etd


i agree its hard to make stats, and yes i agree bs was to powerfull back in round 30, but i dont agree that you just strip away T3 becouse and i quote " mm. Works for me. The T3 doesn't really help Etd hit anything, anyway."
thats clearly wrong.

you said this as well : " Neither Bs nor Fr is a viable solo fleet. This was intentional." so what ur saying is: the Etd is a support race ?

DE is not that good either, one smulger fleet and you cant land ;-) no mater what fleet comp you have in ur de.


you did remove T3 from broadsword becouse you wantetd to let etd get hit more easy <--- that one i get 100%

what did you do to help there attack ?, you did think about it clearly becouse you said "The T3 doesn't really help Etd hit anything"

i get that every race and classes are balanced vrs each other. and iam sure there are other ships that works like the smulger for etd.

anyway ;-) noting we can do about that now is there ?

i just think the stats failed abit on etd and cath.(32% ffs must be a reson why hughs got pop. ;-) )
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Unread 28 Mar 2013, 17:55   #112
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Read the whole thread.

i have done so agian now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo View Post
should you not change the broadsword t1/t2 to de/fr otherwise you have 3 races that can def against it for zero loss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post
By removing CR from the broadswords targetting ETD becomes hugely vulnerable to CR incs. As a result CR becomes overpowered as it then out-inits all its opponents. And has 2 races that can't stop it at all basicly (etd and xan)

My suggestion to counter this would be:
Broadsword T1 = FR, T2 = DE
Shadow T1 = DE, T2 = FR
Gryphon T1 = CR, T2 = BS


The change to the shadow is to prevent Shadows and Broadswords being a clone of eachother, and to slightly boost xan against DE incs. The Gryphon change boosts ETD anti CR as all CR target FR before DE, which makes the Gryphon good anti CR if it's flakked, but not overpowered due to the fact it is out-inited by all CR but ZIK. The gryphon change also slightly weakens etd's anti BS ability, which hurts from being out-inited by the Rogue and the Titan after the broadsword looses it's CR targetting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
I agree that the targeting of the gryphon should be switched if the broadsword ends up losing it's T1 = CR, but I don't see why why broads cant hit t1 = de and t2 = fr and then just change the gryph targetting and not changing anything on the shadow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo View Post
before the change bs seemed the only really viable roiding fleet for etd that didn't require a team up , as to whether shadow and broad would be too similar if you change the targeting on the broad to de/fr I don't see the problem as the defender is already similar to the beetle , so having similar ships across the races shouldn't be an issue

and your reply was :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
You're all looking at the Etd Bs fleet in a vacuum. The Co and De fleets are both viable solo fleets, and having 4 roiding fleets gives Etd almost limitless faking capabilities. In that context, I see no reason for the Bs fleet to be the powerhouse roiding fleet that it would be if I set the Broadsword to target either Fr/De or De/Fr.

(Also, I fixed my Thief ****up.)


ppl still tryed to get you to look into this :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
How about instead of Trying to Fix the broadsword you Change Scorpion to:
T1: Bs T2 Fr since bsword t1's cr and does so very well plug that hole up for etd bs but since a t2 emp eff isnt crazy it should make it so etd can atleast solo attack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post
I was responding to gzambo's suggestion of changing broadswords targetting, and what it would lead to. Personally i don't really see ETD's CO and DE as viable solo options, but then again... i am yet to find a true viable solo option in the long run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo View Post
the faking possibilitys are great with 4 classes as etd but personally I always like to see solo opportunitys for all the races , plus I'm a little nostalgic for etd rd 30 as I played them that round (according to the who we were thread my attack fleet was mainly co as I was doing big mofo fi/co attacks most of the round )
giving the broadsword fr/de or de/fr would give the etd the option of minimal value spread through 4 ships similar to the other races .
team ups with xan bs would be pretty solid mz but as I stated I feel etd bs needs to target fr in some shape to give them a soloing option as the co/fr/de don't really have that option
------

^^ this is all about this in here.

ETD cant solo. you took away there only solo fleet and gave noting back.

anyway there are noting we can do about this now, "I THINK" you failed on this, but that dont matter much
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Unread 2 Apr 2013, 22:52   #113
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

What race besides cat is zik supposed to be able to roid?
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Unread 3 Apr 2013, 03:42   #114
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Does zik need another race to roid in this population?
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Unread 8 Apr 2013, 00:43   #115
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

I hate playing zik this round......
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Unread 9 Apr 2013, 03:59   #116
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Well Zik Fr cant roid Cat because of locust, Zik Cr can ONLY roid Cat Cr/co but not De.
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Unread 10 Apr 2013, 07:36   #117
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Well Zik Fr cant roid Cat because of locust, Zik Cr can ONLY roid Cat Cr/co but not De.
Seems to me you do less and less research before commenting, how is CATH DE gonna stop zik cr?

and im pretty sure MANTIS (BS) SOLO COVERS VS ZIK CR.
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Unread 28 Apr 2013, 16:49   #118
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

You're never gunna make stats that are "perfect" for all races, I cannot remember a round where people haven't bitched about one race or another either shit or overpowered. Use your heads and come up with strategies that make the stats work for you.
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Unread 5 May 2013, 11:27   #119
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Re: not-quite-JBG's r51 stats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papadoc View Post
Does zik need another race to roid in this population?
Everyone needs a partner to roid with MT stats. Cath is traditionally the best race to solo with if you are looking at it from that aspect. I've solo'ed quite a bit with my zik fi/co after I (finally) capped pods and it's been pretty successful.

In general, the emp races are too powerful for me this round, especially cath co. It's just weird having one race where the t1 -> t2 drop-off is nothing when it drops 50% for all other races. Cath has a decent balance though I guess, currently 2 co, 2 de and 1 cr cath in the top10. Most of the rest of the top10 is FR forts, which was clearly the best choice to avoid inc (although vipers absolutely buttrapes fr).

Next round should be more attack friendly stats again.
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Planets.
Zik: 3rd(r30), 4th(r52), 7th(r27), 9th(r26), 31st(r51)
Ter: 3rd(r50), 4th(r53), 4th(r37), 5th(r31) 7th (r58)
Xan: 3rd(r36), 40th(r57) 54th(r33), 104th(r29)
Cat: 8th (r54), 9th(r48), 12th (r55), 20th(r32), 77th(r23), 103rd(r38), 150th(r34), 152nd(r24),
Etd: 14th(r28)

Those damn emp races..
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