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Unread 23 Jul 2017, 21:20   #1
Jintao
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The backup plan

I'm not here to talk about the movie. I haven't seen it yet, so no spoilers please!

Since signups are 6 days away and it's not sure yet if the other set will be ready in time i thought it prudent to have a backup plan ready to go at a moments notice if needed. Be it this round or during a future round.

To see the backup plan Click here.

All constructive thoughts/comments/suggestions welcome.
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Unread 23 Jul 2017, 21:23   #2
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Re: The backup plan

Thought we had allready decided to go with this set since you stopped accepting new stats proposals two months ago.
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 01:07   #3
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Re: The backup plan

Super quick glance (it's 1am and I've had 2hrs sleep in the last 24)

De fort for the typical boring bunker down tags with organised def. If 4 man bp leave out xan as it doesn't seem to be good for anything

Xan could really use at least 1 ship to prefire something
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 01:36   #4
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Re: The backup plan

From history: http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=4&round=70

Universe total:

Ter: 188
Cat: 178
Zik: 110
Xan: 172
Etd: 54

Notable alliances:

App:
25 TER
18 CAT
6 XAN
1 ZIK
9 ETD

Ult:
13 TER
16 CAT
14 ZIK
13 XAN
4 ETD

p3ng:
3 TER
18 CAT
14 ZIK
19 XAN
4 ETD

ND:
1 TER
15 CAT
14 ZIK
25 XAN
3 ETD

-----------
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 04:57   #5
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Re: The backup plan

Spacebricks?

I guess I'll have to start a Stats for Next Round? thread earlier from here on out.

Kudos for the backup plan.
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 12:09   #6
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Re: The backup plan

These stats look far too defensive at first glance.

The removal of a fi pod (changed xan fi pod to co pod from the last time these stats were used) means DE hits 4 out of 5 pod classes now with the only thing it doesn't hit is itself.
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 12:40   #7
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Re: The backup plan

lets go with these stats
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 13:24   #8
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Re: The backup plan

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Originally Posted by Swainey View Post
These stats look far too defensive at first glance.

The removal of a fi pod (changed xan fi pod to co pod from the last time these stats were used) means DE hits 4 out of 5 pod classes now with the only thing it doesn't hit is itself.
I didnt even care to check that.
Maybe changing targetting so that peg dosnt target CO and FR?
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 14:25   #9
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Re: The backup plan

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lets go with these stats
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 14:26   #10
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Re: The backup plan

This set is very familiar to me and the alliance i played in (yes there's a few changes). Logic would dictate that ill be one of the player that would be in-favor of this set. I remember an alliance saw the most viable strat class/es (DE mainly, with 1/3 of ally using CO) for this, the few changes actually made DE better.

I am not in favor of this set to be rehashed, mainly because.
  • We need a fun set for a summer round, to make more players that is planning to skip the round consider playing - traditional defensive set won't achieve this
  • Generally, this game needs to try something new - summer round is a good timing to try something a bit experimental/new
  • On a non-summer round, there are only 2 alliance (the past 6 or so rounds atleast) that can be considered top-tier in running defense in this dying game. Oftenly running a defensive set every round isn't giving other alliance a chance to compete (i know sub-standard ally won't suddenly have a good shot just because of a stat set change - but still a puncher's chance)

I find Kaiba's set interesting, yes it has flaws (most he already addressed though). Maybe stats team can focus / exert energy in solving them.
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 15:08   #11
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Re: The backup plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocteau View Post
This set is very familiar to me and the alliance i played in (yes there's a few changes). Logic would dictate that ill be one of the player that would be in-favor of this set. I remember an alliance saw the most viable strat class/es (DE mainly, with 1/3 of ally using CO) for this, the few changes actually made DE better.

I am not in favor of this set to be rehashed, mainly because.
  • We need a fun set for a summer round, to make more players that is planning to skip the round consider playing - traditional defensive set won't achieve this
  • Generally, this game needs to try something new - summer round is a good timing to try something a bit experimental/new
  • On a non-summer round, there are only 2 alliance (the past 6 or so rounds atleast) that can be considered top-tier in running defense in this dying game. Oftenly running a defensive set every round isn't giving other alliance a chance to compete (i know sub-standard ally won't suddenly have a good shot just because of a stat set change - but still a puncher's chance)

I find Kaiba's set interesting, yes it has flaws (most he already addressed though). Maybe stats team can focus / exert energy in solving them.
I agree completely, I'd rather take a risk and try a more unusual set and see how things pan out. Even if some of the ideas don't work, we may identify some positives that can be carried forward to make the game progressively better.

If we are digging up old stats, a rehash from R70 seems awfully recent and risks being a wet fish.
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 16:57   #12
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Re: The backup plan

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Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
If we are digging up old stats, a rehash from R70 seems awfully recent and risks being a wet fish.
Imho, if you are to rehash sets, going with recent ones is the only way to go.
the "meta" was much diffrent 20 rounds ago, than 2 rounds ago, so making good changes to a set based on past rounds would be easier.
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 18:40   #13
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Re: The backup plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkzidane View Post
Xan could really use at least 1 ship to prefire something
I believe it has
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 18:44   #14
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Re: The backup plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swainey View Post
These stats look far too defensive at first glance.

The removal of a fi pod (changed xan fi pod to co pod from the last time these stats were used) means DE hits 4 out of 5 pod classes now with the only thing it doesn't hit is itself.
Dunno where you get the opinion of too defensive. As far as i can see that will only apply to DE. The tradeoff is that DE will have alot of trouble landing since everyone targets DE. Good for warring the mining page.

But you do make a good point about the FI CO pods. I should have switched the FI and CO pods the other way around.

I looked at the options of tweaking it without too much impact too the rest with the given timeframe. Without more changes to overall targetting the change itself wouldn't have much impact at this stage. I might tweak a few other ships to be strongver versus DE. Will have a better impact. I'll defi include this if we reuse this set a 4th time
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 18:48   #15
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Re: The backup plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocteau View Post
I find Kaiba's set interesting, yes it has flaws (most he already addressed though). Maybe stats team can focus / exert energy in solving them.
I generally like kaiba's set alot too and have wanted a set like this for ages. A few minor things i'd do different. Mainly the 3 pod thingy that has caused so much fuzz. Just not sure if it's ready to go in 5 days. We'll see.
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 18:49   #16
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Re: The backup plan

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Originally Posted by Cochese View Post
Spacebricks?

I guess I'll have to start a Stats for Next Round? thread earlier from here on out.

Kudos for the backup plan.
When signups open the new traject already starts for a set for R74. If you wish to submit a set you should do so before the round starts. Else you are kinda too late already

Kaiba did submit his set in time, but due to his personal life their were alot of delays which caused the late posting of the set.
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Unread 24 Jul 2017, 18:53   #17
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Re: The backup plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
If we are digging up old stats, a rehash from R70 seems awfully recent and risks being a wet fish.
Compare R53, R70 and this set. I think you'll find alot of things changed in between each lifecycle. Enough for it to be able to play out totally different. Yes it's true some things will still look the same. But alot looks different too. If nothing was the same it would be a new set
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Unread 25 Jul 2017, 01:58   #18
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Re: The backup plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jintao View Post
Dunno where you get the opinion of too defensive. As far as i can see that will only apply to DE. The tradeoff is that DE will have alot of trouble landing since everyone targets DE. Good for warring the mining page.

But you do make a good point about the FI CO pods. I should have switched the FI and CO pods the other way around.

I looked at the options of tweaking it without too much impact too the rest with the given timeframe. Without more changes to overall targetting the change itself wouldn't have much impact at this stage. I might tweak a few other ships to be strongver versus DE. Will have a better impact. I'll defi include this if we reuse this set a 4th time
Sorry I should have explained myself better.

I worry that these stats are too defensively because of the strength of DE. I'd imagine a number of the top allys aka ult, app, bf etc would go de and be very successful with it. Thus the round becoming too defensively, as the leading ally would have too much value to land on.

You can also put me in the camp of wanting Kaiba stats to be run for next round especially if a third pod gets added.
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Unread 25 Jul 2017, 22:33   #19
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Re: The backup plan

I agree with Swainey that tons of value can be poured into DE for defense purposes. As is, Ter can 3 ship build out nixs, pegs, drakes. Cover all classes, or go all attack, with all ter de/bs and cover all attacking classes with 4 ships, since anti-fi isn't needed for defense with this set, nor needed by DE/BS attack classes. I personally would like to see a fi class from some race. Another option to weaken DE would be to remove the fact that DE and BS target each other. Thus resulting in the need to build additional types of ships so, so much value can not be poured into a few ships.

So..
Ter - Remove t2 from drake/wyv
Cat - Scarab De->FR Remove t2 from Tars
Xan - Wraith - remove t2
Zik - none
ETD - Ranger - Change to ST on CR
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Unread 27 Jul 2017, 20:12   #20
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Re: The backup plan

These stats were decent during the rounds and keep the integrity of having different races/compositions intact. I personally would like to see some older sets rerun or even a throw back of war/science or pds. But maybe a shorter round. Could even go as to say no alliances and randomize your gal n go with that. exile requirements being changed a little so people don't bounce around. All ideas I've seen on IRC/tg that raised an eye brow.
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Unread 28 Jul 2017, 09:28   #21
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Re: The backup plan

sorry to say, but this DE set seems aweful

suggested changes by PK might make this enjoyable, or add the third pod to Kaiba's

but both suggested sets in its current form, make me wanna skip the round
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Unread 4 Aug 2017, 12:55   #22
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Re: The backup plan

I liked Sid's stats, back in the day tbh
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