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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 16:52   #1
Clouds
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Raising The Tag Limit

I know this has been suggested numerous times by B-Butch3r and everyone has dismissed his suggestion with laughs and trolling, but I think circumstances dictates that we should have a serious discussion about this.

Various alliances have grown so big that they have a second tag. Some alliances even have a third tag. This creates an unfair advantage when you have organised alliances cross defending their main tag and/or attacking collectively. To give less organised tags a chance to be on equal footing, the tag limit should be raised to at least to 70.

I know the PA team tried this before, but back then there weren't really any overcrowding in alliances. Now, we have 3+ alliances who are overcrowded which can cause an unfair advantage.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 17:18   #2
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

I would be in favour of trying out a 70 man tag for a round
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 17:24   #3
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

Tag size (whether small or big, absolute or relative to the total player base) has been shown to not significantly impact player numbers, so we're safe there, at least.

My view is that making tags bigger would give alliances currently spread over multiple tags an even bigger advantage than they currently have, forcing currently-single-tag alliances to merge in order to keep up, reducing the number of tags, and thereby the fluidity of politlcs.

Also, if (another) experiment with tag sizes must be undertaken, it should be done for at least 3 rounds in a row, so we can tell with some certainty if it's working or not.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 17:38   #4
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

I personally think we should lower limit still, simply due to create more conflict of interest and more competition for winning goals.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 17:45   #5
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

Raising the tag limit makes it even more difficult for small alliances to compete. I'd go for lowering aswell.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 17:46   #6
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Also, if (another) experiment with tag sizes must be undertaken, it should be done for at least 3 rounds in a row, so we can tell with some certainty if it's working or not.

Definitely agree with that. It takes more than 1 round to see the impact on such a change.

I am not totally sold on the increasing tag limit idea, but willing to see it implemented.

What I do want to see before any tag limit changes occur, and what I think will have more of a positive impact, is that ALL MEMBERS count toward score. None of this 60 members with 40 counting. Having 33% of the tag not counting to score gives you a huge advantage.

Yes I realize that with all 60 counting it removes the non full tag from being able to compete for ally win, but with the 33% advantage that a full tag has and with ally fleet being a big advantage already they already have a big advantage, without counting support tags. Lets make them pay for any crashes, or at the very least reduce the non counting to less than 10% of full tag size

(Fixed spelling errors)
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 18:17   #7
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
My view is that making tags bigger would give alliances currently spread over multiple tags an even bigger advantage than they currently have, forcing currently-single-tag alliances to merge in order to keep up, reducing the number of tags, and thereby the fluidity of politlcs.
A small tag like BowS got all their scanners in tag, and all our "support planets", so trying to compete against tags that have 1 scanner in tag has forced us to try "force" all our defence/scanner planets to attack aswell.

Also the "new" alliance defence fleets makes it even harder for smaller tags to attack alone, trying to land a similiar sized tag is even more or less impossibole at times.

There is no fludity for politics when having loads of small tags if they cant have independent politics.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 18:39   #8
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

But having 3 big tags will make it more fluid? I can't understand that logic.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 18:44   #9
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

Well it's still the same outcome even if you don't increase the tag limit. Alliances like Ultores, Kittenz and Apprime can still use their additional tags to cross defend their main tag or attack colletively as a unit.

An alliance like Ultores or Apprime will have the organisation to cross defend, so even if the limit isn't increased, it still has the same effect where less organised alliances have an unfair disadvantage.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 18:51   #10
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

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Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Some alliances even have a third tag.
Any info on this?
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 18:51   #11
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

It's not the same, yes they can cross defend. But its only vs a higher meta class. Increasing tag limit will make it even easier to defend against same meta.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 19:01   #12
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

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It's not the same, yes they can cross defend. But its only vs a higher meta class. Increasing tag limit will make it even easier to defend against same meta.
Don't you think a less organised alliance deserves the chance to compete against an alliance who has 90 members? The current meta means alliances with more than 60 members will dominate and the alliances with no additional members will have to block in order to survive / compete.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 19:02   #13
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

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Any info on this?
Apprime claims they will have 3 tags due to the Brazilians joining them.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 19:08   #14
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

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Don't you think a less organised alliance deserves the chance to compete against an alliance who has 90 members? The current meta means alliances with more than 60 members will dominate and the alliances with no additional members will have to block in order to survive / compete.
That is why I want lower limits, where all players count towards score. This will make it harder to compete for top tag. Even if you have support of several other fulltags. I also could predict that those split into more than one tag will have to change priorities more than once, due to how the round will play out. We will see more changes on rankings this way.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 19:54   #15
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

But it would be nice if there were room for scanners etc in tag.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 20:12   #16
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

Why is it limited... strength in numbers, been true since before the Roman Empire ruled.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 21:03   #17
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouds View Post
Apprime claims they will have 3 tags due to the Brazilians joining them.
I heard Brazil joined FAnG...
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 21:05   #18
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post
That is why I want lower limits, where all players count towards score. This will make it harder to compete for top tag. Even if you have support of several other fulltags. I also could predict that those split into more than one tag will have to change priorities more than once, due to how the round will play out. We will see more changes on rankings this way.
The issue is that most people dont want to make it harder to win, as it makes it less worth while trying to go for it.
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Unread 21 Jul 2017, 21:29   #19
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

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I heard Brazil joined FAnG...
That fell through about as quickly as Diego Costa's prospective transfers.

Personally I'd like to see tag size reduced to 40, or even 30 with 5 spots for non-contributing score. Causing allies to merge seems to cause more instability than deriving any benefits.
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Unread 22 Jul 2017, 06:36   #20
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Re: Raising The Tag Limit

Increase/decrease tag size? Maybe.

"Like mz said" stick with it for several rounds so hopefully some data can be gathered.

Dealing with the extra tag(s) situation is a great topic for a seperate thread.


I'm trying to read the Manual about 'Alliance Relations' in regard to sending defense fleets, but can't find it. Coordinating attacks simply isn't going away at all; though you could nerf it further I guess if you were really that mad about it.

I'd stay away from hard-coding anything, but if it's an issue, then raise alliance limits. Red vs Blue.

Also wasn't the 'points' system supposed to matter? Pretty full spread of stuff to sort through here it seems like.
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