A covert op to mess with prelaunched fleets

[Gio2k]

It annoys me to no end to see people just prelaunch on me with +5 and go to sleep, and i have to be up every tick waiting for the damn inc to appear. So to make it fair, if you prelaunch on me, i should be able to for example delay your prelaunch, or even make your ships launch before intended through a covert op.
Comment on it

[Dr_Zaius]

that would wreak utter havoc on alliance attacks! I like it

[furball]

It's a bad idea and makes covert ops far far far far far far far too powerful.

[Kargool]

I dont think we should have this.. Given the nature of the game, this cov op would probably be the death for the "common" PA player.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by furball

It's a bad idea and makes covert ops far far far far far far far too powerful.

I'm not so sure. At the end of the branch means that it would only become available after tick 300 if people really *rushed* for them, and even then most players wouldnt get it untill far later making it a late round thing at best.

Also, if you made it requiring a fair few agents (like 25), then the chance of success drops significantly.

Additionally, its not hard to make yourself immune from Covert Ops - P1 on Engineering would prolly block the huge majority if not all of such a type of operation. Even P3 and like 25% Sec centres will ensure that nothing succeeds, let alone such a covert op.

And, like the original poster said, those who use it would almost certainly use it against massed alliance raids. The Common Lowbie wont be affected anywhere near as much as they wouldnt know when they had enemy fleets stacked up against them, and/or their co-ords unless the JGPed themself all the time or got some mates to JGP scan him all the time and wake him up. Both of those traits are of paranoid top players, not those who log in once a day.

Frankly, i dont have a problem with it. Prelaunch is meant to help people launch co-ordinated attacks, not always ensure that they worked.

What would be interesting if it worked for defensive fleets too, or whether you covert opped your attacker; which fleet of his would be disrupted? It doesnt have to be the one directed at you, and THAT would cause headaches . Something to be discussed anyway.

[Monroe]

I think I agree with furball. I don't like the thought of someone being able to mess with my fleet orders under any circumstances, I think it really goes against some basic premises in this game.

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

I'm not so sure. At the end of the branch means that it would only become available after tick 300 if people really *rushed* for them, and even then most players wouldnt get it untill far later making it a late round thing at best.

Also, if you made it requiring a fair few agents (like 25), then the chance of success drops significantly.

Additionally, its not hard to make yourself immune from Covert Ops - P1 on Engineering would prolly block the huge majority if not all of such a type of operation. Even P3 and like 25% Sec centres will ensure that nothing succeeds, let alone such a covert op.

And, like the original poster said, those who use it would almost certainly use it against massed alliance raids. The Common Lowbie wont be affected anywhere near as much as they wouldnt know when they had enemy fleets stacked up against them, and/or their co-ords unless the JGPed themself all the time or got some mates to JGP scan him all the time and wake him up. Both of those traits are of paranoid top players, not those who log in once a day.

Frankly, i dont have a problem with it. Prelaunch is meant to help people launch co-ordinated attacks, not always ensure that they worked.

What would be interesting if it worked for defensive fleets too, or whether you covert opped your attacker; which fleet of his would be disrupted? It doesnt have to be the one directed at you, and THAT would cause headaches . Something to be discussed anyway.

Erm, are you playing the same game as me? Prelaunch is used less the more active you are, the bigger alliances usually dont allow prelaunch. If they allow it they do it like only one or two ticks.

If you are a EU player, and not being that active you tend to prelaunch your fleets before going to bed. That way you ensure that you can launch your attack at a time the defcapability of your target is smaller.

[bwtmc]

I can't think of many (European) top players any more that aren't or haven't already drifted towards prelaunched attacks.

[JonnyBGood]

Does anyone else prelaunch fleets on people just to entertain themselves or is that just me?

[Proxi]

Just you dude

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by Kargool

Erm, are you playing the same game as me?

Sometimes, i wonder.

Prelaunch is used less the more active you are, the bigger alliances usually dont allow prelaunch. If they allow it they do it like only one or two ticks.

I doubt that. Prelaunch is primarily used in defence - generally, the most active players defend rather alot, as well as attacking.

Additionally, active players who are doing well are more likely to have higher security settings, especially those who are repeatedly targeted for whatever reason (like being a jammer wh0re). The use of covert ops against those players is less likely to succeed, obviously.

If you are a EU player, and not being that active you tend to prelaunch your fleets before going to bed. That way you ensure that you can launch your attack at a time the defcapability of your target is smaller.

Really? Is *THAT* what prelaunch was for? thankyou *SO* much for clearing that up for me.



Seriously, what part of my comment are you refuting here? Or did you just quote the whole thing out of spite/entertainment?

[Jinstarro]

I like the idea. I dont like the concept of prelaunching at all, and i believe making it less secure/useful would be a good idea. Scanners which go for covert ops could be a more useful for the alliance by fckng up prelaunched attacks on their members.

[furball]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

I doubt that. Prelaunch is primarily used in defence - generally, the most active players defend rather alot, as well as attacking.

Additionally, active players who are doing well are more likely to have higher security settings, especially those who are repeatedly targeted for whatever reason (like being a jammer wh0re). The use of covert ops against those players is less likely to succeed, obviously.

Prelaunch is very commonly used on attack by almost alliances outside the top 4/5. In fact, there's probably more sending of pre-launched attacks than of pre-launched defence.

Furthermore, you're favouring the top players who usually do have high security due to their stockpiled resources - as opposed to Joe Newbie of Noobs Alliance who wonders why he keeps piggying his alliance mates.

[Nadar]

This is one of the better ideas I've seen, I definitely like it. Like UN says, make it take long to research + make it require lots of agents. Also I think that only the person who has a prelaunch fleet on himself should be the only one able to use this cov-op on the prelauncher.

[Gate]

Originally Posted by furball

Prelaunch is very commonly used on attack by almost alliances outside the top 4/5. In fact, there's probably more sending of pre-launched attacks than of pre-launched defence.

I directly refute any accusations that ND has not extensively used the prelaunch feature. To imply that over the past few rounds we have bothered to drag our asses out of bed is simply untrue.

Just ask our targets \o/

[Kargool]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

Additionally, active players who are doing well are more likely to have higher security settings, especially those who are repeatedly targeted for whatever reason (like being a jammer wh0re). The use of covert ops against those players is less likely to succeed, obviously.

Erm.. Hence my argument that this is not a good idea since it will mostly only affect the ones who are less active and who isnt playing this game the leet way but are still paying customers. Ideas like this is just another move into the leetness that have given this game a declining playersmass for the last couple of rounds..

[Nadar]

Everything Kargool doesn't like = Something that makes players quit.

You want to share your crystal ball with us?

[Brug]

Personnaly I like the idea a lot. Having pre-launched attacks is annoying, and messing around with them could be funny.

If its the ops hard enough to succeed, and if only defenders can do it. The pre-launched fleet could be tampered with because the attacker lost the benefit of surprise (could be a way to explain it). Also, if you have no control over the effect (launch earlier or later), the ops would be more risky to use.

However, speaking for a 'less dedicated player' alliance, I agree with the fact that this could harm less dedicated players who do use pre-launch and who are more vulnerable to cov ops as they don't have tons of res or lots of distorters to protect. (Those players usually don't read these forums or usually don't reply to posts, however I think its the majority of players)

Maybe allow sabotage on pre-launched fleets so the effect is less harmful?

[Ultimate Newbie]

Well, the way i see it, this proposal has to answer the following;

1) Where should it be on the research branch (eg, the end), and how long should it take to complete?
2) How many agents as a minimum would it require to "succeed".
3) What happens if the operation does succeed?
3.1: Launch is brought forward by 1* tick
3.2: Launch is brought back 1 tick
3.3: Launch is brought either forward or back 1 tick
3.4: Prelaunched fleet is launched regardless of how many ETA it has remaining
3.5: Prelaunched fleet is cancelled and never launches.
4) Additionally, it has to be worked out what is vulnerable to "success"
4.1: All Prelaunched fleets are vulnerable to the covert op and 3 can occur
4.2: Only Attacking prelaunched fleets are vulnerable to the covert op
4.3: Only Defending prelaunched fleets are vulnerable to the covert op
4.4: Only Inbound prelaunched fleets are vulnerable to the covert op (eg like Fleet scan)

There is prolly more options, but they came to mind soonest. So once people have picked out what options they like, more discussion can occur regarding who wins and who looses i reckon. Everything else would just be speculation.


*I imagine that this variable would change based on the number of agents used etc.

[Gio2k]

Most people don't use the stealing resources cov op, unless you are a scanner, so why not give the people the chance to choose between stealing resources or messing with prelaunched fleets.
My idea would be to make the prelaunched fleet launch the same tick if the operation was successful. Alternatively, it could be something proportional to the amount of agents used, like each 10 agents = launch 1 tick earlier, or so.
Another idea is that the cov op would be easier to carry on someone who prelaunched +5 than on someone who prelaunched +2. I think that's fair.
Messing with prelaunched def fleets is a NO NO. The game is designed to force you to use prelaunch, so covert ops should not be able to affect prelaunched defense.
And as last point, a planet should only be able to cov op a fleet incoming at him.

[Anonymous Hero]

Although it's an interesting idea, my main concern is that it would harm the more casual player in the weaker alliances.

Covert ops are all targetted at doing some damage to planets, not screwing up fleets.

[Pilatus]

Why not some xp penalty for every tick an attack fleet is on prelaunch. If the penalty ain't to much, it still could make active players earn on it during a round and still make ppl that have to go to sleep early only loose a bit xp because of it. If there were like a 3 ticks delay on the xp penalty for attacks, then it wouldn't be possible to figure out who's prelaunching to much ahead of time of launch.

Would ofcause make a difference if ppl are able to recall and prelaunch again before a tick. Think it would be nice if someone who's able to recall and prelaunch their fleets could earn a few k xp during a round on it. And ofcause it couldn't be abused, if the only option were loosing xp on it.

If 40 attacks launch without prelaunch could make you earn something like10k xp during a round, instead of prealunching with +1 eta for each tick, then i don't think it would be well deserved. Nice that ppl who have to goto work or whatever would be able to still gain roids on their attacks, but still think active ppl should get a slight gain on em.

[M0shy]

i am a fan of this idea. but should only be for prelaunched attacks not prelaunch defence.

however what about this situation:

person A and person B attack person C together. person A prelaunches +5, person B launches without using prelaunch. person C cov ops person A and his fleet is put back/forward 1 tick. Person B dies when he lands without realising! Person B does not deserve to die imo.

Other option would be to add somethin similar to a prelaunch scan (possibly suggested elsewhere before, havent searched) in the terms of a cov op. so if u are successful u are rewarded with the launch eta.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally Posted by M0shy

person A and person B attack person C together. person A prelaunches +5, person B launches without using prelaunch. person C cov ops person A and his fleet is put back/forward 1 tick. Person B dies when he lands without realising! Person B does not deserve to die imo.

Person A or B or D-Z can JGP scan person C to check ETAs. Person A could send a PM/PA mail to Person B to inform them of the new LT, Person A/B can compare ETAs after launch, etc. Ultimately, if none of that helps, Person B (who presumably is more active as they didnt prelaunch), just recalls. :\

Other option would be to add somethin similar to a prelaunch scan (possibly suggested elsewhere before, havent searched) in the terms of a cov op. so if u are successful u are rewarded with the launch eta.

That's actually a good idea. I suppose people would just fake the prelaunch (ie, +8) then vary it over time (+2, +5 +3 etc) to spoof any particular "scan". But still i like .

[Aragno]

I see prelaunch as a way for players that like to get some sleep before work to still play the game.

Personally I think I'd be so frustrated with "failed" prelaunches that quit in a fit. Prelaunches are THE reason I can play this game at all. Take that away and your left with ppl who can be one at the "right" times during the day. This game need features that makes it easier to play without a 24/7 online statistics, not features that make it harder.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Aragno

I see prelaunch as a way for players that like to get some sleep before work to still play the game.

Personally I think I'd be so frustrated with "failed" prelaunches that quit in a fit. Prelaunches are THE reason I can play this game at all. Take that away and your left with ppl who can be one at the "right" times during the day. This game need features that makes it easier to play without a 24/7 online statistics, not features that make it harder.

You still have to be on at the right times of day to defend, even more so with prelaunches when everyone can aim for the least active times, which is why part of me likes this idea. But I do think prelaunch is vital to planetarion for the reasons you listed so Id be very worried that a feature like this would kil prelaunches.

Id be more interested in something that gave you a chance to find out the launch tick. Disrupting eta's could be very destructive. But even finding out the launch time might neuter the prelaunch. Its probably unworkable.

[Aragno]

Originally Posted by K-W

Id be more interested in something that gave you a chance to find out the launch tick. Disrupting eta's could be very destructive. But even finding out the launch time might neuter the prelaunch. Its probably unworkable.

I'd say that's a better option. This will save the attacked planet from sitting up all nigth waiting for the launch. I think that if you got a prelaunch on you, you will either sitt up and wait or have someone scan you planet each tick to see if it is launched (if you not sure you got a gal mate that can report it). So it should not have that big an effect on prelaunch.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

I'm not so sure. At the end of the branch means that it would only become available after tick 300 if people really *rushed* for them, and even then most players wouldnt get it untill far later making it a late round thing at best.

Also, if you made it requiring a fair few agents (like 25), then the chance of success drops significantly.

Additionally, its not hard to make yourself immune from Covert Ops - P1 on Engineering would prolly block the huge majority if not all of such a type of operation. Even P3 and like 25% Sec centres will ensure that nothing succeeds, let alone such a covert op.

And, like the original poster said, those who use it would almost certainly use it against massed alliance raids. The Common Lowbie wont be affected anywhere near as much as they wouldnt know when they had enemy fleets stacked up against them, and/or their co-ords unless the JGPed themself all the time or got some mates to JGP scan him all the time and wake him up. Both of those traits are of paranoid top players, not those who log in once a day.

Frankly, i dont have a problem with it. Prelaunch is meant to help people launch co-ordinated attacks, not always ensure that they worked.

What would be interesting if it worked for defensive fleets too, or whether you covert opped your attacker; which fleet of his would be disrupted? It doesnt have to be the one directed at you, and THAT would cause headaches . Something to be discussed anyway.

Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie

Seriously, what part of my comment are you refuting here? Or did you just quote the whole thing out of spite/entertainment?

Entertainment

Originally Posted by Nadar

Everything Kargool doesn't like = Something that makes players quit.

You want to share your crystal ball with us?

lol

Originally Posted by Aragno

I see prelaunch as a way for players that like to get some sleep before work to still play the game.

Personally I think I'd be so frustrated with "failed" prelaunches that quit in a fit. Prelaunches are THE reason I can play this game at all. Take that away and your left with ppl who can be one at the "right" times during the day. This game need features that makes it easier to play without a 24/7 online statistics, not features that make it harder.

I agree.

[Ptraci]

I like the idea of a covert op that messes with someone pre-launch, adds an extra dimension of confusion to attacking, I also like the idea of a scan/ covert op that allows you to see someone's pre-launch eta

[Veedeejem!]

Originally Posted by Gio2k

It annoys me to no end to see people just prelaunch on me with +5 and go to sleep, and i have to be up every tick waiting for the damn inc to appear. So to make it fair, if you prelaunch on me, i should be able to for example delay your prelaunch, or even make your ships launch before intended through a covert op.
Comment on it

I tend to say no to this suggestion, the best way for you to go to sleep and not have to wake up every tick is simply asking a galmember who is online to report it when it comes up.
They might go to sleep aswell, but you have to have some faith in your galmembers.

[K-W]

Originally Posted by Veedeejem!

I tend to say no to this suggestion, the best way for you to go to sleep and not have to wake up every tick is simply asking a galmember who is online to report it when it comes up.
They might go to sleep aswell, but you have to have some faith in your galmembers.

Very few galaxies have multiple players who stay awake through the early morning ticks few have even one. If you are lucky enough to have a great gal m8, or an alliance m8 who can jpg the heck out of you all night, cool, but I dont think most players are in this position.

[Travler]

I don't like this suggestion at all. Prelaunching serves several usefull functions. Prelaunch allows for time specific strategy to be used for coordination of waves or multiple attackers. It also allows for landing ticks or launch ticks to be used when people cannot be online at the time the alliance has scheduled the attack. Personally I use prelaunch when attacking solo targets so that the attack will be at eta 4 at a time that is convenient for me to do or get a jumpgate scan.

This idea would be similar to a covert op that changed the target coords of a pre-launched fleet.

Knowing that a fleet will show up can be a pain but how often does this happen. Once a week maybe. It's something that most of us have become used to. I think this idea would negatively affect the player base of PA.

[Cannon_Fodder]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Does anyone else prelaunch fleets on people just to entertain themselves or is that just me?

I know I spend my time trying to pull as many defensive fleets as possible, I'm hoping to break my record of 9 and get into double figures this round.