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Unread 28 Oct 2006, 11:56   #1
zokka
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Formations

How about we introduce formations to the game

Tight Formations are better for breaking a hole in the enemy while loose

Formations with greater width are useful when you have greater numbers and want to surround the enemy.

You could use a tight diamond formation for a smash and grab attack you could have offensive and defensive formations as well.

People could maybe use a fighter like cavalry and use it to flank a enemy fleet

Imagine if you will a 3d grid in space each box has a limited amount of space.

Battleships and cruisers would take up the most room and fighters the least there fore you could fit more fighters in a box than you could cruiser and battleships

Ok here is a simple example of how it would work:

Target A: Has a line formation 5x1 (this means all ships can fire but also means all can be targeted by the attacker)

Target A: has 5 Basilisk Cruiser Battleship in each box =25 in total

Attacker has a box formation of 2x2 at the font lines he has 100 harpies in each box and the back he has 10 levithans in each box.

Tick 1:
Stage 1. harpies fire with very little effect
Stage 2. Basilisk fire at leviathan however the harpies act as flak and block 100% of the fire (20%) of the harpies are lost

Tick 2:
Stage 1 Harpies fire again with little damage on basilisk
Stage 2 Basilisk fire and 80% of their fire hit's the harpies while 20% hit the leviathan behind killing 5 levs
Stage 3: 15 Levs steal 115 roids

Battle ends!

Last edited by zokka; 28 Oct 2006 at 12:01.
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Unread 28 Oct 2006, 12:19   #2
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Re: Formations

My only question is why? I can't see this adding anything worth while to the game.. But that's me..
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Unread 28 Oct 2006, 12:27   #3
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Re: Formations

Makes the game more tactical.
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Unread 28 Oct 2006, 12:50   #4
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Re: Formations

I applaud the sentiment, but I'm not sure that this is likely to be implemented. I don't think that such tactical depth is easy to capture in a game like PA, where combat is not 'live' (you have no possibility of issuing fresh orders to your units once in combat).

It might be possible to do something simpler, for example:

'Defensive' stance reduces the damage done, but also reduces the damage taken. Maximum roid cap with a 'Defensive' stance fleet would be 15%.

'Offensive' would maximise damage at the expense of some armour, but would give a maximum roid cap of 30%.

Perhaps there could a simple sliding scale, 1-100, with 1 being 'defensive' and 100 being 'offensive', and 50 would be standard ship stats. It would certainly make combat less predictable (though perhaps scans might be able to give an approximate prediction of the stance of the fleet).
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Unread 28 Oct 2006, 12:58   #5
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Re: Formations

I like the idea, but Rob pointed out why it cannot necessarily be implemented the way it was suggested.
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Unread 28 Oct 2006, 13:43   #6
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Re: Formations

I disagree. The worst thing PA can do now is to further alienate those who do not wish to spend a lot of time with tactics and just want to play the game to have fun. I think you would make PA even more of a game for weirdos and geeks then it allready is. Sorry.. Just my oppinion.
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Unread 28 Oct 2006, 13:46   #7
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Re: Formations

Can't we find ways to make the game more fun for the weirdos and geeks and the dimwit plebs at the same time? If extra tactics make the game more fun for some, suggest something that might also make the game more fun for others.
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Unread 28 Oct 2006, 13:50   #8
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Re: Formations

Well, the idea is good Rob, but a lot of changes has been attempted in the last years and as far as I can see none of them has brought back a large playerbase to PA. I don't think it can ever be close to what it was in the first few rounds, but it would be a little more fun with a larger number of planets.

So the question is how to attract new players to the game and in my oppinion complicating it further could have the opposite effect.
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Unread 28 Oct 2006, 13:53   #9
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Re: Formations

Quote:
Originally Posted by -CP-
Well, the idea is good Rob, but a lot of changes has been attempted in the last years and as far as I can see none of them has brought back a large playerbase to PA. I don't think it can ever be close to what it was in the first few rounds, but it would be a little more fun with a larger number of planets.

So the question is how to attract new players to the game and in my oppinion complicating it further could have the opposite effect.
Then suggest something instead of saying "nah, I disagree".
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Unread 28 Oct 2006, 14:00   #10
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Re: Formations

My suggestions would be vague and unrealistic at best. Much like my chances of ever winning a round of pa, but I would like to point out that if you have a game, where only people who have a large amount of time to put into it have fun, then it will be hard to make a commersial success of it. Now I am not even sure if that is a goal. Not for the players anyway, but I think many of you will agree that more players makes it more fun?

I like pa the way it is now. I like that I can set my launch to sometime during the night so that I (and I am not playing hardcore in any way) can sleep through the night and be able to get some work done and be a dad etc.. I also like quite a few of the other changes.

All I'm saying is be careful not to make the game more complicated then it allready is. And again, this is only my oppinion.
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Unread 28 Oct 2006, 14:34   #11
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Re: Formations

I've always liked the idea of implementing some greater degree of tactical combat into the game, at least if it were to provide the ability to perform more proactive defence (should that not be an oxymoron). There've been many such suggestions in the past, for instance allowing players to 'attack' an incoming fleet en-route.

For example, I might have a bunch of incoming from a given planet and decide that I'll throw half of my defence force into trying to thin the attackers out before they reach my planet with a slightly increased attack bonus (or decreased defensive abilities of the incoming fleet), but with no salvage or equivalent. That could be something that might be counteracted by allowing the attacker to select a more defensive travelling posture at the cost of a tick or two ETA. This might assume that there is some kind of scan made available to try to determine fleet tactics, or some covert op that achieves the equivalent.

The major downside of these kinds of tactics is that they would favour more active players over those that are happy to set an autolaunch and hope for the best. And again there are options to try to mitigate that, such as only allowing tactical selection on an opt-in per-planet basis (for instance, I may not be allowed to intercept a fleet if they were set to only use default tactics).

It clearly makes the game more complex to play, that can't really be denied. Whether that's a bad thing or not is an entirely different question. For example, shifting the balance from 'tactics = fleet composition' towards an active tactical style of play by thinning out the available ships for a given race might help. But you're never going to make everyone happy with such an implementation.

I think the larger issue is whether or not such ideas should be dismissed out of hand because they would annoy x% of the playerbase without considering the possibility that an increased complexity to the game might in fact attract more players. Many suggestions on here are thrown out because 'alliances would suffer' or 'alliances would become too strong' or 'it favours newbies' or 'it favours experienced players', all the while with parallel complaints that the playerbase is dwindling and gameplay is becoming stagnant and predictable.

These are the kinds of things that would ideally be trialled in speedgames or free betas running alongside the main round, but issues of coder availability will inevitably arise to the point of the age-old 'we'd love to but we haven't the time' excuse.

As a personal opinion, I feel that increasing the level of tactical options a player has works significantly better given the smaller playerbase that PA currently endures by decreasing the predictability of the game from the point it seems to be at the minute (with a large proportion of the players having 'optimal' fleet compositions) where defence in sufficient numbers will always swamp any attacker.

I am quite fond of the idea of a rogue, small planet launching small and tactically daring raids against much bigger targets and doing well rather than a bunch of moderately sized planets throwing pre-calcuated fleets at their strategically-optimal (in race terms) opponents and having throroughly unenthralling combat stories to tell as a result.

"Yeah I hit this Cath with a roiding fleet and capped a few roids and we both lost a few ships but nothing major"

compared to

"I snuck through this Cath's defenses with a small fighter fleet and capped some roids unhindered because I'd distracted their fleet by running interference with some frigates around the other side of his planet'.

Increased tactical abilities would surely enrich what is on the surface quite predictable gameplay, and might increase the movement of roids in the universe without necessarily ending up with entire fleets being destroyed in the process. How this is either anti-newbie or anti-veteran I'm struggling to see.
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Unread 30 Oct 2006, 14:29   #12
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Re: Formations

Trust me to over complicate things.

I would add a formations link to the menu/bar and would make it like moving ships between fleets, instead you would just move between grids.

At the bottom it would show your formation and what is in each grid/box.

But I guess a system like ComradeRob suggested of offensive and defensive stances would be simpler and more likely.

Thank you for your comments.
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Unread 30 Oct 2006, 15:29   #13
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Re: Formations

Yuo could set missions for your fleet in round 10, i have forgotten mostly what they did, but i remember liking it! anyone care to reexplain what they were:\
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Unread 30 Oct 2006, 15:45   #14
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Re: Formations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alki
Yuo could set missions for your fleet in round 10, i have forgotten mostly what they did, but i remember liking it! anyone care to reexplain what they were:\
You can still set Missions. You probably refer to the "War" setting for engineering, which was absolutely not balanced and different than what is suggested at the moment.
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Unread 30 Oct 2006, 15:54   #15
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Re: Formations

as stated above, its a great idea. Zokka, youre my boy !

however, due to either lazyness or lack of talent of PA Team this will never be implemented and we, no matter what we might want changed, are forever stuck clicking same old tabs doing same old stuff, with brief adjustments to shipstats (at least they started to change SOME shipnames around. kinda brings the fake feeling of change)

all in all, phrase "same shit, different round" had applied to every round since they brought in races. With some catastrophic failures.

I am not saying i would do better, but i did not ask for the responcibility to do better either.

And its not a PERSONAL attack on PAteam, as theyre filled with cozy cuddly peoples, yet its just an aggrivation about apparents things that bother me, combined with recent roiding of me to the ground floor...
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Unread 30 Oct 2006, 16:11   #16
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Re: Formations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
You can still set Missions. You probably refer to the "War" setting for engineering, which was absolutely not balanced and different than what is suggested at the moment.
ah yes!
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Unread 1 Nov 2006, 03:37   #17
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Re: Formations

There was not only this War priority, in one round there was the choice on the missions pages to target roids or target ships, defend roids or defend ships...
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