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Unread 16 Sep 2006, 21:51   #1
pwjones
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Log In Questions

I notice a lot of the anti bot log in questions have been changed to ask things like "What race ship is the buccaneer?". Its great to see these changed as it ws difficult to read many of the old ones.

However, I believe questions like this new type make it difficult for new players to the game. Great for the more experienced players as we know where to find the answer. But for a new player to the game, I should imagine finding the answers would be difficult, maybe to the point where the player may decide not to bother playing at all!

Just my thoughts.
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Unread 16 Sep 2006, 22:43   #2
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwjones
But for a new player to the game, I should imagine finding the answers would be difficult, maybe to the point where the player may decide not to bother playing at all!
I was going to point out the helpful link to the shipstats just below the question - but having looked again, I realised that it may not be clear enough to new players that this is where the answers are located....

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Unread 16 Sep 2006, 23:17   #3
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Re: Log In Questions

Perhaps the helpful link and text description etc need to be bigger - in fact maybe all of the info around the bot stopepr needs to be made cleaer so people know what it is etc.?
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 01:15   #4
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Re: Log In Questions

as long as we can read it.. :-)
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Unread 17 Sep 2006, 21:27   #5
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Re: Log In Questions

Yeah, many times last round i just had to refresh screen to get a new question cause it was totally unreadable, or some of the text was even outside the "text" box.... Make it atleast to it's possible to read, and make the questions easy
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 09:24   #6
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Perhaps the helpful link and text description etc need to be bigger - in fact maybe all of the info around the bot stopepr needs to be made cleaer so people know what it is etc.?
Also there should be a simple "I dont know" link which then displays a different question?
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 16:48   #7
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr0sten
Also there should be a simple "I dont know" link which then displays a different question?
No.

By doing this it "forces" new users to go look things up, thus directing them to tools such as the manual. Through this they will learn abotu the game faster and thus get into it faster.

By having questions like "What race is a Thief from?" It allows new users to develope their knowledge of the game in a more indirect approach.
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Unread 18 Sep 2006, 17:06   #8
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Re: Log In Questions

besides there is already a 'i dont know button' its called f5 on your keyboard...or the refresh button on your browser
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 01:29   #9
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeline
besides there is already a 'i dont know button' its called f5 on your keyboard...or the refresh button on your browser
mind you, people dont know about that untill they submit a support ticket or drop by #support, and/or worry whether the refresh page counts towards their failed login attempts (which it doesnt).

Perhaps its worth mentioning on the page that F5 is your friend?
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 02:06   #10
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Re: Log In Questions

Questions about ship classes are a bit nasty even for regular players. New stats every round... at least they knowwhere to look for the answer... noobs won't.
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Unread 19 Sep 2006, 18:51   #11
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Perhaps the helpful link and text description etc need to be bigger - in fact maybe all of the info around the bot stopepr needs to be made cleaer so people know what it is etc.?
whats wrong with 5X6 or "write the following text" kinda questions
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Unread 20 Sep 2006, 12:29   #12
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Re: Log In Questions

Just do easy calculation questions only. If it is to prevent bots logging in, I dont see why these wouldnt be good enough
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Unread 20 Sep 2006, 12:35   #13
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Re: Log In Questions

I agree, the bot stoppers there NOT to improve players game or general knowledge OR to be an announce its there to reduce the impact that bots have on the game.

The questions should be as simple as possible so that its a minor inconviance
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Unread 20 Sep 2006, 13:12   #14
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Re: Log In Questions

Agreed. Simple questions only, questions that any newbie who has never played before should be able to answer.
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Unread 20 Sep 2006, 13:43   #15
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
No.

By doing this it "forces" new users to go look things up, thus directing them to tools such as the manual. Through this they will learn abotu the game faster and thus get into it faster.

By having questions like "What race is a Thief from?" It allows new users to develope their knowledge of the game in a more indirect approach.
Then a link should be displayed to said tool on the question screen (to my knowledge there isnt already...am i right?), insetad of prospective customer/noob trawling through the portal thinking "i paid £5 for this?!"
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Unread 20 Sep 2006, 13:45   #16
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakey
I agree, the bot stoppers there NOT to improve players game or general knowledge OR to be an announce its there to reduce the impact that bots have on the game.

The questions should be as simple as possible so that its a minor inconviance
Its an entry point into the game...ofc the original purpose is to stop bots, but certainly it could be used in a different way, e.g. to influenece the newer players to explore PA a bit more. I see nothing detrimental about that.
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Unread 20 Sep 2006, 16:24   #17
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Re: Log In Questions

If they want to learn more then they can do it off their own back surely? All the links to manual/stats etc are clearly defined, it doesn't take too long to have a read through - especially if they plan on going p2p.

I lost a tick or 2 on the speedgame with the "write this backwards: 9" questions, or the ones that mix numeric digits and words and then don't tell you what to write the answer as. Surely a "repeat the text" one would be easier for all concerned?
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Unread 20 Sep 2006, 17:33   #18
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy
If they want to learn more then they can do it off their own back surely?
Thats assuming that they want to. If they dont then we have to make them want to, or guide them a little bit.
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Unread 20 Sep 2006, 21:43   #19
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Re: Log In Questions

Surely anyone who bothers to sign up for a game wants to do well? And maybe they don't want to spend hours reading the manual anyway?

The proper incentive to read the manual is in the top right corner of the screen - the player's rank in the universe. Forcing newbies to spend several minutes looking at the manual every time they want to log in is likely to annoy them more than it helps them, and may even put them off playing permanently.
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Unread 20 Sep 2006, 22:16   #20
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Re: Log In Questions

Any chance of putting all the time and effort spent on the botstopper into the game itself? We might have a half decent game then!

Seriously though, the botstopper should be limited to simple questions, I'd say a simple "read the image" is sufficient. If someone is determined to cheat then they'd use remote desktops to get people to watch their account for them.
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Unread 25 Sep 2006, 01:01   #21
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie
Just do easy calculation questions only. If it is to prevent bots logging in, I dont see why these wouldnt be good enough

Easy being the operative word. The current calculations need you to think hard or get the calculator out. My maths skills are definately improving through PA.
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Unread 25 Sep 2006, 15:28   #22
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Re: Log In Questions

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Originally Posted by Pilgrim
Easy being the operative word. The current calculations need you to think hard or get the calculator out. My maths skills are definately improving through PA.

Not a bad thing then ?

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Unread 25 Sep 2006, 17:19   #23
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Re: Log In Questions

I feel bad whining about this, since PA team actually listened to the complaints and made the questions readable. I don't see why they changed them though (except the capitals )
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Unread 25 Sep 2006, 18:06   #24
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Link
I feel bad whining about this, since PA team actually listened to the complaints and made the questions readable. I don't see why they changed them though (except the capitals )
the questions are now randmly generated on the fly rather than having a static list, this means its not posisble to simply generate a list of al the questions and answers for bots to use.
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Unread 25 Sep 2006, 20:20   #25
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
the questions are now randmly generated on the fly rather than having a static list, this means its not posisble to simply generate a list of al the questions and answers for bots to use.
Yeah, now we have to write OCR-capable calculators instead of failing to solve it automatically at all!
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Unread 25 Sep 2006, 21:31   #26
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
No.

By doing this it "forces" new users to go look things up, thus directing them to tools such as the manual. Through this they will learn abotu the game faster and thus get into it faster.

By having questions like "What race is a Thief from?" It allows new users to develope their knowledge of the game in a more indirect approach.
Jesus Christ.
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Unread 26 Sep 2006, 00:26   #27
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv
No.

By doing this it "forces" new users to go look things up, thus directing them to tools such as the manual. Through this they will learn abotu the game faster and thus get into it faster.

By having questions like "What race is a Thief from?" It allows new users to develope their knowledge of the game in a more indirect approach.
Or just force them right away.

sounds like a really stupid idea to me.
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Unread 26 Sep 2006, 17:14   #28
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Re: Log In Questions

The idea of asking sure questions does improve knowledge of the game for new players who wish to learn. There are quick help tips at the bottom of the login page, so should a new player wish to learn they can. Otherwise there is not a problem with it, they can use the ever trusty F5.
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Unread 26 Sep 2006, 20:06   #29
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Re: Log In Questions

I (as a new player) would just be annoyed and turned off from a game which tries to lecture me with questions like "What race is a Thief from?".

Quests are a good way to make people learn about the game while also rewarding the players for doing them. They can be done in-game when you have time and between ticks and dont work as a fence keeping you from playing or checking out a game.

Bring back an extensive quest system with rewards and drop login questions which new players cant answer without studying manuals.

ps: this could include a quest to join the netgamers irc and maybe even register a nick (verification can be done by a bot). Maybe even a daily quest for small planets on irc or a PA trivia quiz. Or how about a quest which requires cooperation of 2 or 3 planets of approx. the same size if they arent in any alliance? loads of possibilities

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Unread 11 Nov 2006, 23:52   #30
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Re: Log In Questions

I found a very easy login system that requires some hand to eye coordination and should be relativly botsafe.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6...checkerng3.jpg

Cant PA use something like this?

It works by seing the number on the screen and then selecting the right box for the number.. It would be alot easier than previous login thingies.
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Unread 12 Nov 2006, 00:13   #31
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
I found a very easy login system that requires some hand to eye coordination and should be relativly botsafe.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6...checkerng3.jpg

Cant PA use something like this?

It works by seing the number on the screen and then selecting the right box for the number.. It would be alot easier than previous login thingies.
Detecting the text in the upper box isnt any problem.

I fail to see how instead of "enter the char 3" a "click the box with the 3" should make any difference against bots?
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Unread 12 Nov 2006, 00:32   #32
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Re: Log In Questions

It could ofc be made abit darker etc. But I think the main thing here is that the current login system is so rediculus (or so i've been told) that its even not showing the right questions in firefox..
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Unread 12 Nov 2006, 00:44   #33
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool
It could ofc be made abit darker etc.
Making things darker would be as pointless as those silly lines in the background and then giving the chars different colors. Its like proving to everybody that the creator has no clue about image processing.

Those things only annoy humans.

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Originally Posted by Kargool
But I think the main thing here is that the current login system is so rediculus (or so i've been told) that its even not showing the right questions in firefox..
That would be a bug to fix and no need to change the system.
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Unread 12 Nov 2006, 01:17   #34
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Re: Log In Questions

i like the current botstopper questions it helps me with my maths!
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Unread 12 Nov 2006, 01:56   #35
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Re: Log In Questions

I haven't had a single non-maths question yet, is something wrong?
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Unread 12 Nov 2006, 05:21   #36
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Re: Log In Questions

same...all i ever get is the math questions...whats the point in having those hints if there aint no questions on them
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Unread 12 Nov 2006, 11:50   #37
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Re: Log In Questions

The math questions (e.g. 67+84) are ridiculous. If a bot can't solve 67+84, it can't solve 2+3 either, so why the hell make them so high? The high numbers only takes about 2x the time to solve, but it's still annoying
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Unread 9 Dec 2006, 20:50   #38
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Re: Log In Questions

y not just put something like "type what u see below" its the most common anti bot question....


yes i know its an old thread...(blame Kargool for that ) :P
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Unread 9 Dec 2006, 22:11   #39
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Re: Log In Questions

Can we remove the questions during havoc and before the start of tick 1?
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Unread 9 Dec 2006, 22:51   #40
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Re: Log In Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by WreCkeRer
y not just put something like "type what u see below" its the most common anti bot question....
It maybe simple, but some bots can "see" text using Optical Character Recognition, whilst this will stop a basic bot, it will not stop a determined coder.

Basic intelligence captchas requiring the user to read and answer a question are needed, and imo the random numbers generated need to be smaller and the operation (addition, subtraction, multiplication etc) symbols made clearer so that you can't confuse + with x.

My two cents
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Unread 10 Dec 2006, 11:39   #41
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Re: Log In Questions

fair enough then
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