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Unread 19 Jul 2007, 14:02   #1
Gate
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Answer a quick questionnaire for me

This is a survey for an environmental & social charity & campaign group on people's attitudes to meat eating. You can get on it by clicking here.

It won't take long; there's about 10 questions, & I'd appreciate your time. Please answer seriously, it might be hilarious to click the first answer all the way through and although this will almost certainly make women (or men, up to you) the world over want to sex you due to your obvious social dominance, you won't be helping me with my research.

Thanks. <3
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Unread 19 Jul 2007, 14:28   #2
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

I ticked the 2nd answer for nearly all of them, but that's because that was my honest answer
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Unread 19 Jul 2007, 14:29   #3
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

What up foo
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Unread 19 Jul 2007, 14:43   #4
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Assess how strongly you would respond the following arguments

1) Astronmers prove that a comet will strike the earth in two years and eliminate all life unless every person in the UK has sex with an 8 year old child.

would make me have sex with an 8 year old child
doesnt bother me
would me think about having sex with an 8 year old child
would make me less likely to have sex with an 8 year old child




What do you expect to learn from this sort of "what would you do if the world was completely different to how it is" reasoning? :/
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Unread 19 Jul 2007, 14:56   #5
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

a lot of times i do want to eat more meat just to spite vegetarians, I'm also thinking of a campaign of unneccesary cruelty towards animals, for similar reasons.

also, vegetarians, please explain to me why we have these?
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Unread 19 Jul 2007, 15:19   #6
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

There is an important choise missing

Something like "it bothers me, but not enought to change my habbits"
"it doesn't bother me" and "it might make me think about eating less meat" can't handle this

but I'm frigthned of vegetarism, I might die of starvation due to vegetarism.
Those vegetarians are eating the food of my food
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Unread 19 Jul 2007, 15:32   #7
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

vegetarianism doesn't give a balanced diet without use of vitamin pills anyway, you need vitamin meat (aka my little friend B12) otherwise you can suffer
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
SEVERE AND PERMANENT DAMAGE TO THE BRAIN
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Unread 19 Jul 2007, 15:49   #8
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Assess how strongly you would respond the following arguments

1) Astronmers prove that a comet will strike the earth in two years and eliminate all life unless every person in the UK has sex with an 8 year old child.

would make me have sex with an 8 year old child
doesnt bother me
would me think about having sex with an 8 year old child
would make me less likely to have sex with an 8 year old child
This list is missing the GD option of
'Would make me have more sex with an 8 year old'
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Unread 19 Jul 2007, 16:04   #9
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
This is a survey for an environmental & social charity & campaign group on people's attitudes to meat eating. You can get on it by clicking here.

It won't take long; there's about 10 questions, & I'd appreciate your time. Please answer seriously, it might be hilarious to click the first answer all the way through and although this will almost certainly make women (or men, up to you) the world over want to sex you due to your obvious social dominance, you won't be helping me with my research.

Thanks. <3
sweet reptilian jesus you're a self-righteous arse.
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Unread 19 Jul 2007, 16:17   #10
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead_Meat
This list is missing the GD option of
'Would make me have more sex with an 8 year old'
that would explain this then
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 10:42   #11
Gate
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
What do you expect to learn from this sort of "what would you do if the world was completely different to how it is" reasoning? :/
The point of the study is to understand psychological reasoning for excessive meat consumption. All of the arguments are either supported by observational evidence or, for the last question, is one of those ethics things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vampire_lestat
also, vegetarians, please explain to me why we have these?
I'm sure they would argue that humans are naturally omnivorous and designed to eat meat; but that this doesn't mean it's vital. Males have nipples, for example. Just how vital are these?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
sweet reptilian jesus you're a self-righteous arse.
I'm not vegetarian, fyi.



And TK; that doesn't matter. Even if you answer #2 all the time, it helps. Tnx <3
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Last edited by Gate; 20 Jul 2007 at 10:50.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 10:44   #12
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
I'm not vegetarian, fyi.
i will admit to a fair amount of surprise here, so fair play.

i would say though that you've managed some fantastically condescending questions there, even by accident, so it might be worth tweaking them a bit.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 11:38   #13
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
The point of the study is to understand psychological reasoning for excessive meat consumption.
Because it's tasty! The same reason why people do things like smoke, because they don't care enough that it kills them.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 12:45   #14
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Males have nipples, for example. Just how vital are these?
Here's a man who's missing out
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 13:06   #15
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
The point of the study is to understand psychological reasoning for excessive meat consumption. All of the arguments are either supported by observational evidence or, for the last question, is one of those ethics things.
Excuse me? You're one of those tree hugging animal rights hippies, aren't you?
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 14:51   #16
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
i would say though that you've managed some fantastically condescending questions there, even by accident, so it might be worth tweaking them a bit.
If you have any suggestions then please pm me.

It's for research purposes so changes should still ensure that the recipient has a certain level of understanding of the facts behind the question so as not to bias the results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Structural Integrity
Excuse me? You're one of those tree hugging animal rights hippies, aren't you?
Animal rights don't bother me.

I do enjoy a good hippy now and then though!
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 16:48   #17
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
2. Vegetarians have a reduced rate of heart disease, diabetes, hypertension, some forms of cancer, renal disease,
osteoperosis, dementias, e.coli & other diet related illnesses.
People who opt for vegetarianism tend to come from wealthier backgrounds where you can afford to be fussy about what you eat and where the rights and wrongs of post-industrial intensive farming is the sort of conversation you have time for. This is a lifestyle that lends itself to conscientiously taking better care of oneself, private healthcare etc.

Quote:
3. Meat is more expensive than vegetables & cereals, therefore eating less meat would save money
Eating less vegetables would save money. Eating cheap shit food would save money. You're confusing your points here.
Quote:
4. Vegetarianism is linked with higher IQ. Vegetarianism may become a fashion or social aspiration.
stacks an irrelevant point onto a faulty conclusion.
Quote:
1. Meat production leads to habitat loss. In 1 year, 9,000 square miles of amazon rainforest were cut down for pasture, and pesticides used to grow feed also contribute to the loss of wild animal species.
I'm sure a fair amount was also cut down for arable land. Biased question.
Quote:
3. It can be argued that the mistreatment & killing of animals for food is unethical.
This is such a horrifically loaded question its unreal. You can only tick the 'unethical you say? Why, fetch me a steak knife!' box rather than the 'I would contest that claim' box.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 18:19   #18
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodrog
Assess how strongly you would respond the following arguments

1) Astronmers prove that a comet will strike the earth in two years and eliminate all life unless every person in the UK has sex with an 8 year old child.

would make me have sex with an 8 year old child
doesnt bother me
would me think about having sex with an 8 year old child
would make me less likely to have sex with an 8 year old child
would increase my respect for GD



What do you expect to learn from this sort of "what would you do if the world was completely different to how it is" reasoning? :/
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 18:57   #19
Gate
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
I'm sure a fair amount was also cut down for arable land. Biased question.
Evidence suggests that with less meat consumption (and without the biofuel boom), deforestation for arable land would not be required to supply world food demand. [1][2][3]. Lower meat consumption means less land used for farming (although I think that everyone going vegan would be a stupid idea because there is a lot of land which works for pasture but not for arable land)

Quote:
This is such a horrifically loaded question its unreal. You can only tick the 'unethical you say? Why, fetch me a steak knife!' box rather than the 'I would contest that claim' box.
I would disagree with your interpretation of the answer. The answer is what you would do when presented with this argument; your reasoning is immaterial in terms of what the survey is trying to find out.

Most answers so far (including mine) have been point 2, with a handful of point 1s and point 5s. This suggests that this argument affects a very small number of people, but affects them very strongly. Campaigning on this argument is unlikely to be effective; the sort of thing we want to find out.


I agree with your points about wealth & health, plus the phrasing of the 'fashion' statement, however. I'll suggest an alternate phrasing when I work one out or have one given to me.

Thanks for your input; but I do feel you might have misinterpreted what the survey is trying to do. It's not to judge people or find out why they react this way, just to find out how they tend to react.


1 - 'Livestock's Long Shadow' (2006) - report for the European Union, United States & United Nations, H Steinfeld et al
2 - http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases...stock.hrs.html (accessed 1850, 20/07/07)
3 - http://www.idrc.ca/en/ev-30610-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html (accessed 1850, 20/07/07)

No journal articles as I'm away from uni where I have access to them.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 19:27   #20
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

It just seems like a shock tactic to turn people vegetarian,to be honest.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 19:47   #21
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
Eating less vegetables would save money. Eating cheap shit food would save money.
Wait, are you saying meat is cheaper than vegetables? Stuff like potatoes, onions, beans etc is pretty cheap I'd say. Cheese and most fruit is more expensive than meat in many cases, but besides that?
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 19:52   #22
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

I don't know about you guys but I ****ing hate broccoli.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 19:56   #23
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

I had a burger and chips today and leeuce on the burger.

I'm killing the planet! :crymeariver:
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 20:41   #24
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
The point of the study is to understand psychological reasoning for excessive meat consumption. All of the arguments are either supported by observational evidence or, for the last question, is one of those ethics things.
No they arent, at least 50% of the arguments are either made-up or dishonest.

edit: heres a list

Quote:
The American Dietetic Association states that vegetarian diets have nutritional benefits
with lower levels of saturated fat & cholesterol & higher levels of fibre, antioxidants & potassium.
Similar studies show vegetarianism helps keep weight under control. (this is made-up)

Meat is more expensive than vegetables & cereals, therefore eating less meat would save money (vegetarians cannot survive on vegetables and cereal alone; meat is a lot cheaper than equivalent vegetarian protein sources)

Vegetarianism is linked with higher IQ. Vegetarianism may become a fashion or social aspiration. (lol)

Meat requires far more land & other inputs than plant foods. 1kg of pork requires over 8kg of feed to produce. Meat reduces food production and drives up food prices for the poor, contributing to famine. (this seems based on a misunderstanding of economics, but meat is dirt cheap anyway).

Meat is one of the largest human contributors to global warming, responsible for about 90% as many greenhouse gases as the US or China. (this one I'm not sure about admittedly but it doesnt sound like the sort of thing that would be true [and will probably involve a broken window fallacy somewhere along the line])

Last edited by Nodrog; 20 Jul 2007 at 20:50.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:10   #25
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opi
Wait, are you saying meat is cheaper than vegetables? Stuff like potatoes, onions, beans etc is pretty cheap I'd say. Cheese and most fruit is more expensive than meat in many cases, but besides that?
There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that shows that poor people can't afford to eat healthily, which is why they go to McDonalds and other shitty food suppliers, because it's cheap and filling.

In fact, in the US, if you go to supermarkets in poorer areas, there just isn't the same range of fruit and veg, since poor people won't buy it.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 21:29   #26
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
This is a survey for an environmental & social charity & campaign group on people's attitudes to meat eating. You can get on it by clicking here.

It won't take long; there's about 10 questions, & I'd appreciate your time. Please answer seriously, it might be hilarious to click the first answer all the way through and although this will almost certainly make women (or men, up to you) the world over want to sex you due to your obvious social dominance, you won't be helping me with my research.

Thanks. <3
The question on killing and mistreatment is an unfair question. I do not see anything wrong with killing animals for food, that is just the circle of life. Mistreatment is a different matter, simply because we don't need to do it for me to get food.
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Unread 20 Jul 2007, 22:02   #27
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead_Meat
There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that shows that poor people can't afford to eat healthily, which is why they go to McDonalds and other shitty food suppliers, because it's cheap and filling.
McDonalds isnt cheap, not is healthy food expensive. You could easily afford a day's food for the price of a McDonalds meal.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 07:06   #28
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

I would have to agree that the survey is not particularly worded well. I felt forced to answer 1 to every question because the other answers were incredibly biased in the other direction.

You gave 3 varying degrees of agreeing with the question, and only 1 strongly opposed answer to choose from. That doesn't mean any of the statements would make me eat more meat, but the other options applied even less to my own beliefs.

You would have done far better to put in 'Strongly Agree, Agree, Neither, Disagree, Strongly Disagree'. I've done a dozen phone surveys and this seems standard canon in the industry, you dont want to lead the participant into a set response.

As it stands the survey has little value other than to serve as a propaganda piece.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 10:48   #29
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by lokken
The question on killing and mistreatment is an unfair question. I do not see anything wrong with killing animals for food, that is just the circle of life. Mistreatment is a different matter, simply because we don't need to do it for me to get food.
That's not what the question is asking though; it asks what your response is when faced with that argument. Not what you think of the argument. Personally, I don't think it's unethical to kill animals for food but it is an argument that exists.
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Unread 21 Jul 2007, 11:24   #30
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
The American Dietetic Association states that vegetarian diets have nutritional benefits
with lower levels of saturated fat & cholesterol & higher levels of fibre, antioxidants & potassium.
Similar studies show vegetarianism helps keep weight under control. (this is made-up)
'Vegetarian Diets' - Journal of the American Dietetic Association 103, 748-765
'American Dietetic Association Position Statement on Vegetarian Diets' - Journal of the American Dietetic Association 97, 1317-1321
'Mortality in British Vegetarians: review and preliminary results from EPIC-Oxford' - The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 533-538 (accessed 1050 21/07/07)

Quote:
Meat is more expensive than vegetables & cereals, therefore eating less meat would save money (vegetarians cannot survive on vegetables and cereal alone; meat is a lot cheaper than equivalent vegetarian protein sources)
However, eating less meat will generally save money. The majority consume more than is required; what gluten, eggs, dairy and limited meat & fish should be able to provide sufficient protein.

Quote:
Vegetarianism is linked with higher IQ. Vegetarianism may become a fashion or social aspiration. (lol)
Research suggests that successful parts of society can become role models for others to aspire to; the work of Levitt into child naming for example.

The IQ correlation has been observed, although this is not strong evidence for causality.

Quote:
Meat requires far more land & other inputs than plant foods. 1kg of pork requires over 8kg of feed to produce. Meat reduces food production and drives up food prices for the poor, contributing to famine. (this seems based on a misunderstanding of economics, but meat is dirt cheap anyway).
The way I understood it is that if demand for land were to fall due to lower meat consumption, the least efficient producers would drop out first, suppressing overall prices.

Equivalent of a left shift of the demand curve, providing a lower quantity & lower prices.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not an economist.

Quote:
Meat is one of the largest human contributors to global warming, responsible for about 90% as many greenhouse gases as the US or China. (this one I'm not sure about admittedly but it doesnt sound like the sort of thing that would be true [and will probably involve a broken window fallacy somewhere along the line])
'Livestock's Long Shadow' by the LEAD initiative (supported by the EU, World Bank, US & UN). States figures of 6.9bn tonnes CO2 equivalent in terms of NOx, CO2 & CH4, including land use. Minus land use, the figure is 4.56bn tonnes.

Neither the US nor China exceeded 6bn tonnes over the last recorded years;
'Global and regional drivers of accelerating CO2 emissions' - PNAS 104, 10288-93, M Raupach et al
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 02:43   #31
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

this thread is actually going to make my head implode, both sides are coming up with some random shit
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 13:24   #32
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
That's not what the question is asking though; it asks what your response is when faced with that argument. Not what you think of the argument. Personally, I don't think it's unethical to kill animals for food but it is an argument that exists.
My response is "stop being so absurd and break up the question so I can answer it properly" but there wasn't an option for it.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 16:42   #33
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
how many times does he have to say he isn't a vegetarian and doesn't give a shit about eating meat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
This is a survey for an environmental & social charity & campaign group
It's hardly coming from a neutral source and all the questions are loaded in favour of becoming a vegatarian.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 17:14   #34
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
how many times does he have to say he isn't a vegetarian and doesn't give a shit about eating meat?
That's hardly relevant in context to the survey.

I never said I thought he was a vegetarian. It is impossible to dismiss the fact that the survey is heavily weighted towards a pro-vegetarian viewpoint.

So my point still stands that the survey is biased, as such any resulting data collected from the survey will also be biased.

This effectly renders the survey unfit for its intended purpose. Since it cannot function as a well balanced collection of scientific and statistical data from a sample population, I see no other suitable purpose for its design other than as a pro-vegetarian propaganda piece whether that was the authors original intent or not.

Good day sir!
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 17:32   #35
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

The survey is meant to be "biased." As Gate has said many times he is looking for the reaction of people when presented with these obviously absurd and leading questions. This would be useful, for example, in determining a correct marketing strategy for the Hippies to adopt when they are trying to push their poisonous tofu-laced products down our throats. Clearly this condescending and somewhat biased route is not the one to choose as it seems, irrespective of the facts*, prone to causing anti-vegetarian sentiment in the target audience.

*I have no idea if the data regarding meat consumption provided is correct, nor do I care. Like most omnivores I eat what I like the taste of although I will avoid "junk" food in preference to cooking myself as a general rule.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 17:33   #36
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Filled it in, hope it helps :-)
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 18:16   #37
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
As Gate has said many times he is looking for the reaction of people when presented with these obviously absurd and leading questions. This would be useful, for example, in determining a correct marketing strategy for the Hippies to adopt when they are trying to push their poisonous tofu-laced products down our throats.
And this is why the survey is set up as it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
Clearly this condescending and somewhat biased route is not the one to choose as it seems, irrespective of the facts*, prone to causing anti-vegetarian sentiment in the target audience.
Which is why I think (hope) it's obvious that the questionnaire itself is not a propaganda piece. For the audience on this site at least, I would expect it to yield a negative reaction;



It is, however, giving useful results. For example; Daily Mail readers appear to be slightly more concerned with personal health & financial impacts than respondants on this site; but are slightly less concerned with social & environmental issues.

Evidence from this response group indicates Maddox' 'for every animal you don't eat I'm going to eat 3' may not only be funny, but also insightful. The animal rights argument affects very few respondants, but generally affects them strongly; either positively or negatively.

This evidence suggests that the traditional vegetarian strategy of campaigning on animal rights isn't just something that's annoying, but is also likely to be ineffective.

A useful finding, thanks to those of you who responded.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 18:23   #38
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
And this is why the survey is set up as it is.



Which is why I think (hope) it's obvious that the questionnaire itself is not a propaganda piece. For the audience on this site at least, I would expect it to yield a negative reaction;



It is, however, giving useful results. For example; Daily Mail readers appear to be slightly more concerned with personal health & financial impacts than respondants on this site; but are slightly less concerned with social & environmental issues.

Evidence from this response group indicates Maddox' 'for every animal you don't eat I'm going to eat 3' may not only be funny, but also insightful. The animal rights argument affects very few respondants, but generally affects them strongly; either positively or negatively.

This evidence suggests that the traditional vegetarian strategy of campaigning on animal rights isn't just something that's annoying, but is also likely to be ineffective.

A useful finding, thanks to those of you who responded.
People don't like hippies. It's as simple as that. there are many possible reasons; disillusionment with the past; traditional reactionary tendancies in the old; wish to forget their unfulfilled youth; the 1980s; the smell etc but whatever the reason, people don't like hippies.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 18:40   #39
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
People don't like hippies. It's as simple as that. there are many possible reasons; disillusionment with the past; traditional reactionary tendancies in the old; wish to forget their unfulfilled youth; the 1980s; the smell etc but whatever the reason, people don't like hippies.
Many 'hippy' causes are now being adopted by society at large. Skim through an issue of New Scientist or the Economist, pick up a paper and just see how many adverts are some kind of corporate bullshit about how they really care about the environment/ethical trade/whatever.


I would argue that a major contributor to the negative sentiment towards hippies is, in some cases, simply a natural psychological defence. People like things the way they are and they are being asked to change. A strong, aggressive reaction allows you to overwhelm any inclination towards rationality & morality. Without this inclination, there is no cognitive dissonance to worry about; you can carry on what you were doing before without any feelings of guilt.

Again, I'm not a psychologist, so feel free to correct me on this one too.
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Unread 22 Jul 2007, 22:56   #40
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
Evidence from this response group indicates Maddox' 'for every animal you don't eat I'm going to eat 3' may not only be funny, but also insightful. The animal rights argument affects very few respondants, but generally affects them strongly; either positively or negatively.
I hope you find all those Daily Mail readers and cut their house price in half while moving some immigrants next door.
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Unread 23 Jul 2007, 09:37   #41
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Re: Answer a quick questionnaire for me

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Originally Posted by lokken
I hope you find all those Daily Mail readers and cut their house price in half while moving some immigrants next door.
:lol:

My town is a Daily Mail town. I've been trying to get more immigrants for ages.
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