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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 08:06   #101
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I'm not so sure that works as an analysis of knowledge. For one thing, you need to be more explicit about the premises and the reasoning. Are these premises also beliefs held by the agent? Must the agent also know these premises? Or is it sufficient for the agent to hold these beliefs without having them count as knowledge? Either way is problematic.

Suppose that I need not know the premises. If this is the condition we are working with, then it could be the case that our agent is delusional, and some belief(s) just pops into his head that happens, through mere chance, to be true. Our agent, locked in his cell in the mental ward and completely ignorant of all the goings-on in the world, suddenly forms both the belief that Laura Bush is the First Lady and the belief that Laura Bush is married to G. W. Bush. Based on these premises, our madman concludes that G. W. Bush is President of the U.S. In this case, this belief - that G. W. Bush is President - meets all your conditions for knowledge. The belief is true, it is based on true premises, and it is arrived at by valid reasoning (we can say that our madman, despite his other shortcomings, has a firm grip on standard logic). But we would not say that this madman KNOWS that G. W. Bush is President; the beliefs that led him to that conclusion were nothing more than the illusions of a sick mind.

So say instead that the premises must be known. This leads us to the problem of an infinite regress. Because if the premises must be known, then they must in turn be true beliefs based on true premises and arrived at by valid reasoning. But the premises of this further argument must be known, and so on and so forth. By requiring "known premises" for knowledge, we create for ourself a chain of justifications. The chain either does not end - which is absurd - or it does end, which is impossible given your conditions.
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 08:23   #102
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsby
"Your mum is fat" is an unsupported assertion,
Indeed it is and this is precisely why Gordon failed.

I can't quite determine whether your constant repition of the same point is a zealous defence of him or whether you actually believe that the reason you are wrong is because i can not understand your very simple point.

Regardless, I would appreciate it if you could stop repeating it now. You do tend to waffle on - aspergers?
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Unread 25 Jan 2007, 08:48   #103
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugsby
So say instead that the premises must be known. This leads us to the problem of an infinite regress. Because if the premises must be known, then they must in turn be true beliefs based on true premises and arrived at by valid reasoning. But the premises of this further argument must be known, and so on and so forth. By requiring "known premises" for knowledge, we create for ourself a chain of justifications. The chain either does not end - which is absurd - or it does end, which is impossible given your conditions.
You can either accept it's contextual or attempt to find a tautology to base your statement on. After all the universe was only created halfway through this post. To my never-ending dismay I find I'm very much a fallibilist these days. Not that I've got anything against it per se, I'd just like more variety after a while.
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Unread 26 Jan 2007, 01:38   #104
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Reading through the Harry Potters again in anticipation of the new release this summer, rumored on 7/7/07!
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Unread 26 Jan 2007, 20:17   #105
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I'm currently reading 2 books, which is unusual for me, I don't normally go above 1.

I was reading three until a couple of weeks ago when i finished The Master of Go. It was pretty good, but not amazing. It's possibly the only book I've read that has won the nobel prize though.

atm I'm still reading Tess of the D'Urbervilles, which is really good. I'm enjoying it more for the pictures of scenery and life it paints than the plot itself though, although that is becoming more interesting (I'm only about 1/3 of the way through).

I'm also attempting to read Gravity's Rainbow. Which is er, really really hard. It would be difficult to describe exactly how it is, but a lot of it is to do with the way which Pynchon weaves the narratives together without fully explaining any of them, jumps from natural to supernatural without so much as a by your leave, and writes in a style which seems to pay more attention to the beauty of the language than the cohesion of it. It's a mission, believe me on this

Nevertheless, I'm trying to work through it and attempting to appreciate it for what it is, but I haven't really read anything like this before (the closest is probably Joyce, but that's not particularly similar) so it's very heavy going. I hope the effort will improve me though.

One day I'll finish it, it's mostly due to the difficulty of this book that I have been reading others.
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Unread 26 Jan 2007, 20:47   #106
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
It was pretty good, but not amazing. It's possibly the only book I've read that has won the nobel prize though.
Lord of the Flies?
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Unread 26 Jan 2007, 20:53   #107
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Lord of the Flies?
I had to read it at school but never actually finished it, didn't like it much.

So 1 1/2
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Unread 26 Jan 2007, 21:20   #108
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistwraith
Eragon

End your life now.
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Unread 29 Jan 2007, 22:17   #109
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Well, it's not a book, but I just spent the last hour or so reading The Last Question by Isaac Asimov at work. Very enjoyable.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 02:44   #110
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Manufacturing Consent by Edward something and Noam Chomsky. It's about propaganda, and it's ace.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 02:50   #111
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I am now reading Babel-17 by Samuel R Delany, which Giles gave me for my birfday.
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Unread 30 Jan 2007, 17:09   #112
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Just finishing Bram Stoker's Dracula (which is ace and not what I expected), and also reading Heidegger's Essence of Truth.
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Unread 1 Feb 2007, 16:31   #113
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Chekhov's Short Stories and Macneice's Collected Poems.
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Unread 2 Feb 2007, 03:20   #114
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Contesting capitalism? Left parties and European integration, by Richard Dunphy.
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Unread 6 Feb 2007, 16:27   #115
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Exclamation Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

tbh the only thing I've read in about two months is a back copy of the Viz which I found on a bus to Chester Le Street.

I don't really read fiction anymore.
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Unread 6 Feb 2007, 16:42   #116
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
Chekhov's Short Stories and Macneice's Collected Poems.

for chekov's short stories. they are truely brilliant. Given, i havent read one in over 10 years, but i remember quite a few from my school program. Unforgettable reading
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Unread 6 Feb 2007, 17:18   #117
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I've recently read both Eragon and Eldest, the only two books so far in the author's Inheritance Trilogy(sp?) I thought that both were quite good, considering that they were dreamed up by a fifteen year old. (That's how old the guy was when he first started writing Eragon.)

Currently, I'm re-reading all the books in the Chronicles of Narnia series, (I have them all together in a hardcover book.)

Has anyone else read all seven books?
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Unread 7 Feb 2007, 12:07   #118
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I would have thought most people here, who have read one, have read all seven; at least if they started when they were children.

They're good books for children, but when you get older the flaws become altogether too apparant.
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Unread 7 Feb 2007, 12:09   #119
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

like the fact it's impossible to have a secret world at the other side of a wardrobe.
I've TRIED.
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Unread 7 Feb 2007, 12:19   #120
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I have on my desk Feersum Endjinn by Iain M. Banks which I entirely plan on starting this evening so consider this a spooky post from the future.
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Unread 7 Feb 2007, 17:41   #121
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
They're good books for children, but when you get older the flaws become altogether too apparant.
Don't sully my childhood. I love the first book. Also, I only recently realised the adult implications of "hello child, would you like some turkish delight and then for me to take you to a wonderful place?" I can't remember if the said character was Turkish or not.
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Unread 7 Feb 2007, 17:42   #122
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
Don't sully my childhood. I love the first book. Also, I only recently realised the adult implications of "hello child, would you like some turkish delight and then for me to take you to a wonderful place?" I can't remember if the said character was Turkish or not.
I have to watch the film again and look out for things like this. Though if she said it, she said it in such an unsexy way I'd never have interpreted it in an adult way.
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Unread 7 Feb 2007, 18:03   #123
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
Don't sully my childhood. I love the first book. Also, I only recently realised the adult implications of "hello child, would you like some turkish delight and then for me to take you to a wonderful place?" I can't remember if the said character was Turkish or not.
that was from the second book
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Unread 7 Feb 2007, 18:04   #124
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

No it wasn't. Edmund went through and met the witch, and she offered him Turkish delight
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Unread 7 Feb 2007, 18:09   #125
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Whatever! I was around 7 when I read it!
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Unread 7 Feb 2007, 19:05   #126
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Reading random bits from the Portable Edgar Allan Poe after finishing the trial by Kafka (enjoyed it) and failing to finish the first chaprter of Ulysees (didn't enjoy it). I did start reading one straight after the other which may have had something to do with it, but I'm not convinced of that.
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Unread 7 Feb 2007, 19:08   #127
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
that was from the second book
The second book in series chronology, but the first book in real life chronology. The Magician's Nephew requires really the reading of The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe to make much sense, similar to most prequels.
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Unread 7 Feb 2007, 22:47   #128
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
The second book in series chronology, but the first book in real life chronology. The Magician's Nephew requires really the reading of The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe to make much sense, similar to most prequels.
Actually, I read The Magician's Nephew first, and it helped me understand things such as how the professer knew that Narnia was real, how the witch came to be in Narnia, and where the wardrobe came from later on in the next, (or first, depending on who you ask,) book, The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe.

I prefer the chronological order, and I find that though the stories are written for a child, I admire the way religion is woven throughout them in a way that an adult can appreciate. Though very simple, the lessons and deeper meanings to each book make them quite delightful, to me at least.

Did you know that C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien, (sp? oh, I hope not!) belonged to the same book club, and bounced ideas for their books off of one another? I thought that was really interesting...
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Unread 8 Feb 2007, 00:10   #129
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebdomad
Don't sully my childhood. I love the first book.
the flaws mark refers to are more likely to be the obvious 'pro-lewis' certian type of christianity' propoganda and the inherent doctrinal failings.
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Unread 8 Feb 2007, 00:27   #130
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic-Rose
Has anyone else read all seven books?
This is a joke right? Like asking people if they've read all 3 Lord of the Ring books.

The Horse and His Boy is Chronolically the 3rd book, but was the 5th published, and The Magician's Nephew was 6th Published even though it's Chronologically first.
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Unread 8 Feb 2007, 00:34   #131
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I've read none of them and I don't intend to.
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Unread 8 Feb 2007, 01:11   #132
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Thanks for the heads-up, ASG.
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Unread 8 Feb 2007, 01:14   #133
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

No worries. Now you know if you ever find youself thinking 'I wonder if A.S.G. has read this book' all you have to do is ask.
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Unread 8 Feb 2007, 11:37   #134
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jt25man
This is a joke right? Like asking people if they've read all 3 Lord of the Ring books.
Actually, I wasn't joking. If a person loses interest, they aren't likely to continue reading books in the same series. I know a few people myself who read one or two of the books and never touched a third. That's actually how I happened to begin reading (and get into) the series the first time, by borrowing books from a friend who quit reading them.
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Unread 9 Feb 2007, 11:59   #135
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic-Rose
Actually, I read The Magician's Nephew first, and it helped me understand things such as how the professer knew that Narnia was real, how the witch came to be in Narnia, and where the wardrobe came from later on in the next, (or first, depending on who you ask,) book, The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe.

I prefer the chronological order, and I find that though the stories are written for a child, I admire the way religion is woven throughout them in a way that an adult can appreciate. Though very simple, the lessons and deeper meanings to each book make them quite delightful, to me at least.

Did you know that C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien, (sp? oh, I hope not!) belonged to the same book
club, and bounced ideas for their books off of one another? I thought that was really interesting...

watch a movie called shadowlands .. its about the life of C.S. Lewis (anthony hopkins plays him to perfection)


and for once for a series of books.. the chronicles of narnia really should be read in published order .
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Unread 9 Feb 2007, 12:47   #136
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synthetic-Rose
Actually, I read The Magician's Nephew first, and it helped me understand things such as how the professer knew that Narnia was real, how the witch came to be in Narnia, and where the wardrobe came from later on in the next, (or first, depending on who you ask,) book, The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe.
I don't feel the second two to be particularly distracting from the story of The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, and as to the Professor's motives: surely it changes the point of the professor's actions in The Lion et al. If he didn't know that Narnia was there, as it were, then he's a voice of spiritualism, if you will, refusing to pass judgement based upon assumptions about the nature of the world, and open to new ideas. If he's been to Narnia before, and knows the history of the wardrobe, then he simply knows something that the children don't and is as closed minded as the rest of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
the flaws mark refers to are more likely to be the obvious 'pro-lewis' certian type of christianity' propoganda and the inherent doctrinal failings.
No, bad sentence flow and poor plot development (especially in The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, in which the deep magic and the deeper magic aren't even mentioned in passing beforehand, and are fairly remarkably precise on the nature of the situation), although the latter is related to an allegorical component.

Quote:
Did you know that C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien, (sp? oh, I hope not!) belonged to the same book club, and bounced ideas for their books off of one another? I thought that was really interesting...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
J. R. R. Tolkien was a close friend of Lewis', a fellow member of the Inklings, and an early reader of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. However, despite his sharing Lewis' Christian faith, Tolkien was rather dismissive of the book. He considered its theology to be both blatant and naive, and the mixture of different mythic elements very inconsistent. He specifically objected to the curious presence of Father Christmas, and the mixture of both Norse and Greek mythologies. In addition, he came to dislike the avuncular manner of story-telling for children — which can also be found at points in The Hobbit (Being something of a perfectionist, he later had to stop himself from rewriting that book, as told in Humphrey Carpenter's biography).
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Unread 9 Feb 2007, 13:33   #137
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Finished the Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy boxset, now on to John Grisham's The Innocent Man.
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Unread 9 Feb 2007, 21:41   #138
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
I don't feel the second two to be particularly distracting from the story of The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, and as to the Professor's motives: surely it changes the point of the professor's actions in The Lion et al. If he didn't know that Narnia was there, as it were, then he's a voice of spiritualism, if you will, refusing to pass judgement based upon assumptions about the nature of the world, and open to new ideas. If he's been to Narnia before, and knows the history of the wardrobe, then he simply knows something that the children don't and is as closed minded as the rest of them.
I understand what you're saying, (and you have a very thought-provoking argument,) but I still stand by my opinion that the books go well in their chronological order, and that The Magician's Nephew preceeds The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe very nicely.

However, I do conceed to what you said concerning the Professor motives, and being a voice of spiritualism versus simply knowing something the children didn't.
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Unread 10 Feb 2007, 03:05   #139
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

It always comes down to personal preference, of course.
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Unread 10 Feb 2007, 12:52   #140
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Okay then, which Discworld book shall I read next? I've just read The Truth, which has probably been my favourite so far, and I was thinking of going onto the next in the series but I though I'd ask your esteemed opinions on the matter instead. Basically I like all the books that have plenty of Vetinari and guild politics in them.
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Unread 10 Feb 2007, 13:21   #141
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

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Originally Posted by Hebdomad
Okay then, which Discworld book shall I read next?
If you've not read Night Watch then you should do so. (apologies if you've already indicated that you have). If you have the time it might be worth reading all of them in order though. It doesn't matter from a story perspective but the writing in the later books is slightly more sophisticated (or something) which can make reading the early novels slightly jarring by comparison. Possibly.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 13:41   #142
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Yeah, I've not gone backwards in the series. I've noticed the later books are much better too. Go go Pratchett. Night Watch it is then.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 21:31   #143
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I've finished reading The Thirteenth Tale by Diane Setterfield. It was really interesting.

I'm going back to my 5 year mission to read The Bear and The Dragon by Tom Clancy...I'm almost half way through now.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 21:37   #144
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Just as a heads-up telling that to a forum renowned for its intellectual snobbery wasn't a good idea.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 21:49   #145
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

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Just as a heads-up telling that to a forum renowned for its intellectual snobbery wasn't a good idea.
I'll keep that in mind. Perhaps if this book wasn't so utterly boring I'd be able to read more than a chapter without putting it down for several months to a year, yet I feel compelled to try and finish it since I started it.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 21:54   #146
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Don't you think it kind of wastes a lot of time and effort if you can't remember what happened in chapter 1 by the time you go to read chapter 2?
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 21:59   #147
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
Don't you think it kind of wastes a lot of time and effort if you can't remember what happened in chapter 1 by the time you go to read chapter 2?
I don't have that problem though, my memory is sufficiently capable of handling remembering whatever I've read so far no matter how long it is in between when I put a book down and when I pick it up.
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Unread 12 Feb 2007, 22:24   #148
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I'm ashamed to say I'm reading White Teeth by Zadie Smith. Only because it's the only book left out of the mountain I was given for hospital reading.

I really don't like it but seeing as I'm over halfway through I feel I should plough on through to the end
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Unread 13 Feb 2007, 00:35   #149
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

Since I posted last time (January 19th) I've finished 'Two towers' of the LOTR-collection and started on #3.
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Unread 13 Feb 2007, 01:11   #150
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Re: OK GD people, which book are you reading now?

I'm onto Borges now. Labyrinths.

As a sidenote, if anyone could recommend a book that deals in some way with memory, I'd be much appreciated. I don't necessarily want to restrict myself to fiction; philisophy or science recommendations would be ace. I know I could just look this up on the internet but I'm curious as to whether you lot have any ideas.
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