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Unread 30 Aug 2006, 20:22   #51
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Re: Two quick demands

It was bound to happen sooner or later

I think you guys are too harsh on Marv
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Last edited by Alessio; 30 Aug 2006 at 20:35.
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Unread 30 Aug 2006, 20:57   #52
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Re: Two quick demands

Hey a Snurx thread that made 50 posts

Anyways, too harsh? I think he was too harsh on our beloved s|k. Besides, it's in this forums nature to be harsh on what is seen as a shit occurence. Either you ban us all for being ****s or you accept it's nature. In my book this is probably the best forum off it's scale, atleast that I ever encountered, and that is partly (or mostly) due to it's intense and sometimes horrifying selfjustice. The action was a balant overreaction, and should never have happened. It's not like there had to be a immediate verdict, no rush was needed, and still hasty and unjus action was taken instead of keeping some ice and waiting to see events unfold.
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Unread 31 Aug 2006, 10:38   #53
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
It was bound to happen sooner or later

I think you guys are too harsh on Marv
What was bound to happen sooner or later? s|k's banning or the heavy boots of people who aren't actually mods and were never appointed as mods?

There's no accountability there, when I ****ed up as a mod JJ came over and had a chat with me, who exactly will be talking to Marv such that he will listen?

I think we are all aware that I don't particularly like s|k, but to have someone banned for something so mindnumbingly inconsequential (even taking the supposed PMs into account - moderating people means you get abusive PMs. This is true on PD, AD, GD and any of the forums, so it's not like the calm collected PAer suddenly wandered into THE DEATHTRAP OF ABUSE) is nonsensical. What makes it even stupider is that the decision has appeared to have been made independently of prior information about the participants. Is banning for being consistently a jackass better than banning for being a jackass once? Certainly, but even in the former case it would not be clear-cut.

This is not a new phenomenon. Over the years we have had many examples of the PATeam supermods sticking their oar in. Some learn, restricting themselves to banning and deleting spammed advertisments (for example). Some never had to learn. Some, however, keep on doing stupid things as described in this thread, neither learning from the internet in general nor from the history of PATeam.

If the game doesn't die before we get another wave in, I suspect this will happen yet again in the future. Nothing ever changes.
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Unread 31 Aug 2006, 13:06   #54
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Re: Two quick demands

Sorry guys, I'll be back soon and I'll bring alcohol!













Edit: I guess I could avoid this sort of thing happening again as well but alcohol first.
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Unread 31 Aug 2006, 17:43   #55
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
What was bound to happen sooner or later? s|k's banning or the heavy boots of people who aren't actually mods and were never appointed as mods?
That one of us would get banned for a week for a shitty reason
It's not really a shocker if some fellow shitposter gets banned by a mod in a bad mood
Especially not after some turd complaint
Quote:
There's no accountability there, when I ****ed up as a mod JJ came over and had a chat with me, who exactly will be talking to Marv such that he will listen?
Why wouldn't he? Marv is a nice guy, I bet he would listen to most mods, its their turf
He just needs to be reminded that he is a noob when it comes to modding

He just did what he thought was best, and improvised a bit
I'm not saying I support the ban, but i dont think he did something terribly wrong
he just made an error in judgement while trying to do the right thing, its not like he abuses his powers

And about his mod access, he didn't give himself those modding powers now did he?
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Last edited by Alessio; 31 Aug 2006 at 17:59.
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Unread 31 Aug 2006, 17:55   #56
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Re: Two quick demands

I might be a little bit biased tho
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Unread 31 Aug 2006, 18:21   #57
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
And about his mod access, he didn't give himself those modding powers now did he?
There is an issue here though with regard to PA Team's moderating powers (which they receive automatically upon joining PA Team). All forums mods have been made mods because of their posting history and experience. This experience is expected to provide the mod with an ability to make the right decisions and to use the mod powers (not just banning users - also thread and post management, e.g. deleting posts/threads) in an appropriate way for that forum. For example, AD has to be ruled with an iron fist otherwise it will just degenerate into mayhem, whereas GD does not have to be modded as strictly.


Some members of PA Team have this experience anyway through their previous forum history - such as Appocomaster, the head of PA Team, who has over 4000 posts, and Kal, Head of Strategy (and ex-Head of PA Team), who has a similar post count. I think it would be fair to say that Marv does not have this experience.
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Unread 31 Aug 2006, 18:48   #58
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Re: Two quick demands

I don't imagine that any of you kids has noticed that the ratio decidendi of this case is as follows:

If a user takes offence at something you post and complains to mod (and perhaps then threatens fictional and groundless legal action) your posts will be edited. If, in private, you get angry about your posts being edited and say things which the person who edited your posts dislikes you will be banned

The reasons why this precedent is dangerous to set are as follows:

1) There is no objective test for what someone will take offence at.
2) Complaining in private should mean just that.
3) (see 1)

There is a secondary issue of people using powers which they ought not to have.

Of course you CAN attempt to run a forum where rules are made depending on who gets angry first and which person with power over others is having a bad day at any particular time.

However it would seem that such a way of running a forum is not condusive to the very nature of a forum.

This situation would probably have been better handled had someone bothered to think things through. Might I suggest the following guidelines for those with mod powers to follow:

a) Just because somebody complains about being insulted it does not mean that you have to act
b) If a user threatens legal action you are perfectly entitled to take some time to ask legal advice - there is no need to rush. (we even have several lawyers here who will help you)
c) Some people will say things you find offensive, best to rise above it if it is said in private.
d) If you don't know what to do and you can't find JJ or a GD mod then WAIT.
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Unread 1 Sep 2006, 00:05   #59
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Re: Two quick demands

My opinion is as follows:

1. s|k should get a grip on his anger issues
2. ram-a-whatever should not be so thin skinned, it was s|k for christ's sake
3. Marv should have told ram-a-lam-a-ding-dong to calm down and not to be threatening.
4. Everyone should have asked themselves, what would Brian Boitano do?

When all is said and done s|k is down for a few days. Big deal. Stiff upper lip and all that.
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Unread 1 Sep 2006, 10:10   #60
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Re: Two quick demands

It ain't no biggie, folks. Let's all take some big breaths and return to our computer games.
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Unread 1 Sep 2006, 10:45   #61
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
That one of us would get banned for a week for a shitty reason
It's not really a shocker if some fellow shitposter gets banned by a mod in a bad mood
Especially not after some turd complaint
A mod, fine. Most of the mods are fairly experienced, and were chosen because of their knowledge and experience with a given posting community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
Why wouldn't he? Marv is a nice guy, I bet he would listen to most mods, its their turf
When we're talking about accountability, saying "yeah, but he'll listen even though he doesn't have to" is a pretty crap argument. I don't know Marv, he looks a bit naive (at the very least) in this interaction - the whole structure of modding on these boards is taking people who know their stuff, why should that be thrown out the window just because there's this chipper lad who does something entirely disconnected from moderating the forums?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
He just needs to be reminded that he is a noob when it comes to modding
Then he shouldn't be doing it in the first place. He shouldn't have the power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
He just did what he thought was best, and improvised a bit
The road to hell, to partially quote a phrase. If in doubt, wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
I'm not saying I support the ban, but i dont think he did something terribly wrong
he just made an error in judgement while trying to do the right thing, its not like he abuses his powers
I think that coming into a forum in which he has little experience and banning someone based on a spurious complaint and a personal overreaction is abusing his powers. If I had banned someone every time I got annoyed, there wouldn't be many of you left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
And about his mod access, he didn't give himself those modding powers now did he?
You appear to have missed the point. Marv is a member of PATeam, PATeam gave themselves mod access, a PATeam member abused those powers.

Whilst quite a lot of this thread is about people saying Marv's a tosser, a not insignificant amount of it is about PATeam's continued holding, and abuse, of power it makes no sense for them to have.
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Unread 1 Sep 2006, 10:51   #62
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
2. ram-a-whatever should not be so thin skinned, it was s|k for christ's sake
I know it was s|k and like others i have had previous "run-ins" with him. The point is that one of the lies he made up was involving bestiality which is illegal in germany. Most people act like i demanded to have one of his other insults removed like "You're a ****ing idiot.". If i where that "thin skinned" - i wouldnt reply (to you) here, i wouldnt have gone to #forums to talk with people because i got f*ckloads of insults on irc and elsewhere.

There are occasionally topics here and on irc where i refrain from pasting a link because of the UK sexual act because i know many people are from the UK and even if its only a very small chance, i dont want to get them into trouble. You may think the german laws are complete bullsh*t and as some stated "its a police state" (a comment which IMHO increasingly could also be applied to the UK), but i still have to abide to them just like the UK people have to abide to their own laws which might make owning asphyxation videos an offence punishable with prison soon - no matter how stupid it is.

A common comment i got was "but we know it was made up and you didnt say that" but while the core of regulars on irc and on the forums likely know that, there are some people who think i really said what s|k wrote. Who knows who i will p*ss off in half a year who uses a forum search or google to dig this up (yes this forum is readable worldwide by using google).

Please honestly ask yourself - if somebody tells made up lies about you in such a public place saying that you mentioned several people of beeing involved in illegal activities - wouldnt you try to get that removed?*

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
3. Marv should have told ram-a-lam-a-ding-dong to calm down and not to be threatening.
Feel free to get copies of anything i said in any public place or to any public person back then and check if you can see me beeing impolite, unreasonable or threatening. The "sueing" comment was made in private to somebody who isnt official in any way i know and that person instantly pasted it into a public channel.

The only thing resulting from the whole issue up to that point, was that after an hour or so marv edited s|k's posting and only replaced those one or two lines with a comment that "it was uncalled for and not the way we want to treat other users around here" (cited from memory, but should be accurate to the meaning).

That raised s|ks anger and he again edited his post (you can still read it and it certainly didnt get friendlier) and things took off from there (see marvs posting).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
When all is said and done s|k is down for a few days. Big deal. Stiff upper lip and all that.
Idd.

Practically everybody seems to favor s|k in this because "he is one of the last regular GD posters", but why dont marv and me get some credit for "creating" this entertaining episode for all of you to enjoy and be enraged about (that was meant ironically btw.)

* i dont think s|k intentionally tried to create this situation
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Unread 1 Sep 2006, 10:57   #63
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
:words:
Did you type this while having sex with your mother/father/brother/dog/cat/horse?

(test)
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Unread 1 Sep 2006, 11:07   #64
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Re: Two quick demands

This is what happens when people pay too much attention to legal faggotry.
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Unread 1 Sep 2006, 11:29   #65
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Re: Two quick demands

Marv is the Ryan Chapelle of CTU but in GD!!!
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Unread 1 Sep 2006, 16:56   #66
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Re: Two quick demands

If you can get convicted for saying things like that in a public space, without any crime being reported, any witnesses, any forensic evidence or anything at all exept your own words, then you do infact live in a police state.
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Unread 2 Sep 2006, 00:36   #67
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
This is what happens when people pay too much attention to legal faggotry.
as someone who posts boring threads quite frequently in order to prevent such misinterpretation I am insulted.

The law was abused in this instance. It's very name was bandied about by children in a playground.

The law was never at fault.

The law was never an issue.

What happened here was two ignorants colliding.

blame cross cultural misunderstanding, blame immaturity, blame incompetence, blame ignorance, blame ego, blame the twats involved; but do not blame the law.
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Unread 2 Sep 2006, 02:32   #68
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demon Dave
s|k was banned?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yahwe
Gay ducks only do it because it impresses their peers.
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Unread 2 Sep 2006, 12:56   #69
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
as someone who posts boring threads quite frequently in order to prevent such misinterpretation I am insulted.

The law was abused in this instance. It's very name was bandied about by children in a playground.

The law was never at fault.

The law was never an issue.

What happened here was two ignorants colliding.

blame cross cultural misunderstanding, blame immaturity, blame incompetence, blame ignorance, blame ego, blame the twats involved; but do not blame the law.
Dante fought the law and the, law won.
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Unread 2 Sep 2006, 13:51   #70
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahwe
do not blame the law.
I don't.
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Unread 3 Sep 2006, 02:09   #71
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
Marv is the Ryan Chapelle of CTU but in GD!!!
I've been watching Series 3 of 24 and Ryan Chapelle just got shot by Jack Bauer (who must be JBG I suppose as David Palmer is JJ) so I hope that doesn't happen here
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Unread 3 Sep 2006, 06:24   #72
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramihyn
bla blabla bla
You're a fag.


Regarding s|k, the dude's a Jarhead, that's why he's angry all the time.
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Unread 3 Sep 2006, 08:48   #73
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomkat
I've been watching Series 3 of 24 and Ryan Chapelle just got shot by Jack Bauer (who must be JBG I suppose as David Palmer is JJ) so I hope that doesn't happen here
I was wondering if your previous comment refered to S2 or S3
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 19:18   #74
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Re: Two quick demands

Not trying to dig up burried issues, but some of you were curious.
This is the PM I sent to Marv that I was banned for:

Quote:
hey dickhead
I don't give a **** if you're a mod or a pa team member or what the ****. You're not funny or clever with your editing of comments. You should leave modding of GD those that are part of that community. Go waive your new gigantic cock and mod powers somewhere else. k thx.
This was the ban reason:

Quote:
You have been banned for the following reason:
Posts edited for putting in totally inappropriate content and abuse to a user falsifying information about specific mods. Sending abusive PMs to mods, not tolerated, have a week off to think about it.

Date the ban will be lifted: 5 Sep 2006, 02:00
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 19:47   #75
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Re: Two quick demands

Your PM seems quite reasonable to me
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 19:49   #76
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Re: Two quick demands

I'd send that to anyone minus the hey dickhead bit.
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 20:05   #77
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Re: Two quick demands

The word dickhead is sorely underused, dickhead.
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Unread 5 Sep 2006, 20:29   #78
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Re: Two quick demands

Go wave your gigantic cock somewhere else
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Unread 6 Sep 2006, 04:22   #79
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Re: Two quick demands

that was it ?
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Unread 6 Sep 2006, 04:38   #80
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Re: Two quick demands

I have seen people banned for a lot less. Also a lot worse.
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Unread 6 Sep 2006, 10:04   #81
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Re: Two quick demands

I like the way that saying "Marv ****s sheep" (or whatever) was codified as "falsifying information about specific mods". Last I checked, Marv not only wasn't a mod, he also wasn't mods. It's also putting quite the pretentious swing on it.

Me, I'm king of the mods, but that's another story.
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Unread 6 Sep 2006, 10:21   #82
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Re: Two quick demands

making something sound official'ish is hard.. most people just end up going for pretentious
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Unread 6 Sep 2006, 11:32   #83
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil^
that was it ?
With some of the reps and pms that I've received (and lokken's had worse than me), half the forums would be perma-banned by now if I applied Marv's criteria.
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Unread 6 Sep 2006, 11:44   #84
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Re: Two quick demands

Quote:
Originally Posted by furball
With some of the reps and pms that I've received (and lokken's had worse than me), half the forums would be perma-banned by now if I applied Marv's criteria.
i dont doubt it. Ive had some shockers in my time - but to ban for a week for something as tame as that. ( and for as rediculous a reason )
*shakes head*
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Unread 6 Sep 2006, 11:55   #85
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Re: Two quick demands

Looking through my PM Outbox, I have decided to ban myself for a week to reflect the appalling manner in which I have communicated with users in the past.

I truly regret my actions and am deeply apologetic.
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Unread 7 Sep 2006, 10:53   #86
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Re: Two quick demands

And you felt that the ban you got was justified?

s|k isn't as angry and crazy as I thought
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