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Unread 27 Apr 2009, 01:53   #1
Ave
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Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

I would like to see some universal trading and get more use of XP. That way the universe would unite some more and not be limited to contacts of your own alliance.

XP should be stored as in resource to use for universal marketing. If this would be the case, one lacking xp could trade it and the owner could gain money. XP as in score is a gain ofc, but it would add more to the game if u could use your xp in a way or another.

I would like to introduce:
- Troops (men to construct, repair, pilot ships, troops with arms)
- An unit to collect scrab (metal from dead ships) to incrase amount of salvage
- An unit to rescue pilots from dead ships
- Units/missiles to target structures, something to counter the covert-oppers, other than take their roids. Also add a need to repair your base. Perhaps a construction/research techtree to strengthen your base structures, get more solid materials.
- Trading of troops, either captured ones from enemy, or based on their speciality
- Universal trade construction/ship
- A construction to create clones (men) to keep their production as simple.
- A construction/farm to produce food
- Universal tax from trading to feed bottom players.
- Transports with wheels to move in same galaxy or be transported by ships carrying them. Or by some teleport system.
- Universal reputation
- hijack trades, do some covert-op hijacks from ships/material on route.

Adding all this would get us much more to do in game and giving population page some more depth.

We would get universal tax to trade scans, intel, food, resources, xp, men, scrab. Not only battle matters, but wise building of your home base or even trade could make u gain victories.

We would get more depth to battle as having prisoners taken, suiciding for xp only for example gets more painfull. We would have a troopper army to def your home galaxy with transports. Kind of moveable cds system. Would also remove the problem of having no spare ships for ingal def due supporting your alliance. The attacking gets more friendly since there is more stuff to gain than just roids, def gets something to gain possibly too if they are victorial. Balancing between kill units and faster rebuild/salvage.

Your universal reputation can affect your trading, ie your reputation grows if you: do required scans by other players, from landed defences, from landed attacks (bigger gain if u attack targets on range), report incomings, If you gain a trusted/wanted status in galaxy, if you complete the quests, if you join an alliance, from succesfull covert ops, from forum posts -> spam can be reported to MHs or access to gal boards can be limited by gc. And so on...

Reputation could decrease from hijacking trades, launching on people not on your range, little to no fleet movement, adding/trading false info, and so on...
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Unread 27 Apr 2009, 04:46   #2
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

a lot of good ideas, and definately the right direction

the supporting/feeding bottom planets from trading/exchanging resources could be easily implemented and makes much sense to me, as atm those ressources are lost in space (a concept which will never occur in nature)
just remove c200 planets from the list of bottom planets so the ressources feed the system
maybe also for deleteing planets, transfer em into ressources for that pool aswell. some weird hardly understandable formula will do here, i know PA Team likes those
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Unread 27 Apr 2009, 09:19   #3
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
the supporting/feeding bottom planets from trading/exchanging resources could be easily implemented and makes much sense to me, as atm those ressources are lost in space (a concept which will never occur in nature)
and a concept of a planet miraculously "catching" these resources as they float through space...an underdeveloped planet at that, makes more sense?
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Unread 27 Apr 2009, 13:51   #4
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

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and a concept of a planet miraculously "catching" these resources as they float through space...an underdeveloped planet at that, makes more sense?
as much as teleporting roids from target to homeplanet, while the fleet including the pods returns eta8...

if i say that somewhere, ppl scream playability over realism
so why not here

i can see only good things if ressources are given to small planets (if hidden production is calced abd c200 are excluded)
as it will feed the system
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Unread 27 Apr 2009, 18:15   #5
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

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Originally Posted by M0RPH3US View Post
as much as teleporting roids from target to homeplanet, while the fleet including the pods returns eta8...

if i say that somewhere, ppl scream playability over realism
so why not here
pods have warpgates/hypergates built into them. Read the manual
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Unread 27 Apr 2009, 19:07   #6
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

I don't think that making the game more complicated is the best direction to take.

If we want to increase the number of new players, we should be getting simpler instead. Even something as radical as reducing to 2 races.
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Unread 27 Apr 2009, 22:06   #7
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

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Originally Posted by Tomkat View Post
I don't think that making the game more complicated is the best direction to take.

If we want to increase the number of new players, we should be getting simpler instead. Even something as radical as reducing to 2 races.
I disagree with this, very few people sign up to waste their time playing simple games over and over. Most want a complex game that they can become masters of and show off their great skills.

Generally I like the direction suggested in the first post, and have seen many similar suggestions in the past. If Ave could flesh out his ideas some I might even suggest some of them for implementation. Specifically Ave think out how what you suggest might actually be implemented. What would troops look like? What would they do? How would they be built/transported? These things all need to be thought trough before anyone can take these kinds of ideas seriously.
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Unread 27 Apr 2009, 23:31   #8
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

Easy to learn, hard to master.
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Unread 28 Apr 2009, 18:28   #9
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Most want a complex game that they can become masters of and show off their great skills.
Disagree entirely. What mz said.

Adding more and more levels to the play (and more links on the left for new users to be baffled by) will just make new people get scared and not bother.

I've signed up to other MMORPGs in the past and been overwhelmed by the number of options and the huge manuals that accompany them. You're not looking at this from a newcomer's point of view.



In my opinion, you'd sign up a free planet with a choice of two races with entirely different tech trees. Like the original PA. Then if you bought a credit you'd have access to a few more races - not necessarily BETTER races, but with more options and versatility. You wouldn't have all the links on the left with a free planet either - Population wouldn't exist, neither would Politics or Covert Operations.

Easing people in gently. Etc.

don't know why I bothered writing that paragraph. It'll be ignored
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Unread 28 Apr 2009, 19:35   #10
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

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Originally Posted by Tomkat View Post
Disagree entirely. What mz said.
I actually don't see what I said as disagreeing with Mzyxptlk. Or now that you have clarified your position you either for that matter. Having a graduated scale where the beginning options are easy is not a bad idea at all. How most games deal with this is to have a default "automation" option. So the game runs most of these functions and is therefore simple. For those that want to delve into the more complex options then they should also be available, such as the ideas suggested in the beginning of this thread. To simply discourage these ideas with statements like your original one is what I was interested in countering.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 19:05   #11
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
I disagree with this, very few people sign up to waste their time playing simple games over and over. Most want a complex game that they can become masters of and show off their great skills.

Generally I like the direction suggested in the first post, and have seen many similar suggestions in the past. If Ave could flesh out his ideas some I might even suggest some of them for implementation. Specifically Ave think out how what you suggest might actually be implemented. What would troops look like? What would they do? How would they be built/transported? These things all need to be thought trough before anyone can take these kinds of ideas seriously.
Ground Troops would be turret like systems http://www.foothilltech.org/rgeib/en...ems/turret.jpg or http://www.cairdpublications.com/scr...RearTurret.jpg or http://marstone.net/Images/laserturret_s.jpg that can be transported by units specified to it http://www.outsidecontext.com/wordpr...ansporter3.jpg or http://www.whiskeysierragrafics.com/...nsporter-x.jpg Or they could be attached to some/most ships with capacity to carry them, like this: http://liberatorcrew.com/15_Gunnery/...BallTurret.jpg I could also see them beeing mobile wheels to move themselfs on ground like this http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/..._Turret_lg.jpg or http://www.sztab.com/tapety/General-...20104836,1.jpg or http://www.collectiondx.com/gallery2...ts+raised_.JPG or http://www.1000steine.com/brickset/images/8118-1.jpg or even some spacemotorbikes http://guides.gamepressure.com/unrea...1196825890.jpg Also the roll over guns from the clone wars, what ever they were called. Simply the tanks/turrets/troops can fly also with their own method like in this picture (and in this game who ever played it) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...e_Coverart.png


http://www.1000steine.com/brickset/images/0924-1.jpg <- we are missing the car and the pilot from this picture http://www.whiskeysierragrafics.com/...0Airbase-x.jpg and the robot looking like pilots from this picture. and the ground troops from here: http://www.videogamesblogger.com/wp-...ox-360-big.jpg


Basicly we could have vehicles: (no imagination here for the names, but to get the idea) which could be specified on bombing the air, the spaceships or structures/constructions/cov-opers by killing their structures... (note only x structures, when the growth wont stop completely)
Laser turrets
Tanks
Missile launchers
Space bikes
Robots
Rolling over guns
Scarab - collecting scrap/salvage from battle fields.
Rescuers/Ambulances
Towers (cds)
Beam weapons for ziks and so on...

Ground forces (men) which can be specified to counter the ground troops and if wanted, add some realism in form of pilots in to the game. Also this opens option for prisoners taken as well ass ground troops that have lost their carriers.
Gunners - people with automated laser guns ("robocop, starwars")
Bazookers - people with bazookas

Pilots - to pilot the spaceships
Trooppers - to control the ground vechiles
Techincans - to speed up building, or required to make them.

We got 5 races, as addon we can make unique ground troops for each, or make it the speciality of some new race(s) or give everyone the same ground troop technology.

What it adds to the battle is:
You can choose between your race and then balance against ground troop focused people also. we can add some t3 targets there, so we don have to re-do everything.

You can choose between cov-oping, ground troops, spaceships, ofc u need some spaceships how ever to keep your fleet mobile and we can make some weaknesses to ground troops to force people to "original game play", just we get a new dimension more in form of ground troops.

We get prisoner system in use, so transported ground troops, whom lost their carriers (not enough capacity to bring them back home) gets trapped, which u can either buy back with smaller price or abandon, how ever the enemy cant break the protect code to use them. This would also add dimensions, that u can win battles by just killing enough transporters and getting people trapped. Even u would be losing otherwise. Also it will hurt more to suicide so we support wise play in here. Also the men abanding their blown/damaged spaceships could be prisoned and exhanced back on a way or another.

Adding salvage/rescue units will also open up paths to take minimal losses from battles, without having a need to complete destroy your enemy. Also it makes u balance with a super kill fleet vs. a fleet that recovers easy when killed.

Adding all this will also open new options for resource addons (food, oil) and adding structures (constructs) to produce enough men/clones to control the units. This way structures gets more usage and a reason to visit it every day.
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Unread 1 May 2009, 19:40   #12
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

Ave, what would ground troops do? Would they destroy structures? Would they steal resources? Kill population? What? I guess the basic question is why would I invest resources in group troops? When they fight how is the winner determined? Can I send ground troops on defense? If I send ground troops on defense how long do they stay around? Still one tick? Etc. There are lots of questions here, but I think the idea is fun if nothing else.
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Unread 2 May 2009, 07:50   #13
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

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Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
Ave, what would ground troops do? Would they destroy structures? Would they steal resources? Kill population? What? I guess the basic question is why would I invest resources in group troops? When they fight how is the winner determined? Can I send ground troops on defense? If I send ground troops on defense how long do they stay around? Still one tick? Etc. There are lots of questions here, but I think the idea is fun if nothing else.

Ground forces would fight like other units, with stats added to the tables. They would get their 3-4 new classes.

Space unit addons:
- Transporter
- Added capapcity table to stats to transport these weapons/units. Each unit having x capacity to carry them. Not all has to have some.
- Bombers specialiced to fight ground troops
- Change targeting to fight ground units also.

Ground units:
DS = Defence system (Turrets, Missile launchers, Towers)
RS = Resource/recovery system (Scarab, Rescuers, Repairers (if we ever get back to more than 1 tick of battle), possibly even a capper added)
MS = Mobile systems (Tanks, bikes, Robots, Rolling guns)

Ground troops:
GT = Ground troops (Bazookans, Gunners, Under cover agents, Trap Miners, Robber technicians)


ie. for zik
Beam Tower DS - t1 CR t2 BS - Steal
Missile launcher DS - t1 FR t2 DE - Normal
Scarab RS - t1 salvage t2 resources
Rescuers RS - t1 population
Tractor Beam Tank MS - t1 DS t2 RS - Steal
Robber technicians GT - t1 RS t2 research points - Steal

ie. for xan
Light Turret DS - t1 FI t2 CO - cloaked
Missile launcher DS - t1 FR t2 DE - Normal
Scarab RS - t1 salvage t2 resources
Rescuers RS - t1 population
Light Space bike MS - t1 DS t2 GT - cloaked
Gunners GT - t1 GT t2 RS t3 DS - Normal

ie. for cath
Icy Turret DS - t1 FI t2 CO - EMP
Missile launcher DS - t1 FR t2 DE - Normal
Scarab RS - t1 salvage t2 resources
Rescuers RS - t1 population
Roll over icy gun MS - t1 DS t2 RS t3 GT - EMP
Trap Miner GT - t1 RS t2 MS t3 Structures - Normal

ie. for etd
Laser Turret DS - t1 FI t2 CO - Normal
Missile launcher DS - t1 FR t2 DE - Normal
Scarab RS - t1 salvage t2 resources
Rescuers RS - t1 population
Transforming Robot MS - t1 DS t2 GT - EMP
Under cover agent GT - t1 structures t2 population (damage) - cloaked

ie. for terran
Gunnery Tower DS - t1 BS t2 CR - Normal
Missile launcher DS - t1 FR t2 DE - Normal
Scarab RS - t1 salvage t2 resources
Rescuers RS - t1 population
Space Tank MS - t1 DS t2 RS - Normal
Bazookan GT - t1 MS t2 RS t3 GT

You would invest in them, since u get more weaponary in use and speciliazing your forces on more GT/GU might decrease fire focused on you and make u stronger. Also the DS systems needs to be made strong enough to attract a wide use of ground forces. Also the new resource stealers/salvage units added to ground forces give them a lot of worth.

Resource systems can get a higher armour and be used as flak also, they can move freely between the galaxies, how ever are too afraid to enter any battle field without your own troops protection. AKA not farm others battles.
Mobile systems can move on their own inside galaxy, for longer distance they need a transporter. They can also have capacity to transport Ground Troops.
Defence systems need to be attached to ships with capacity to move them. How ever they fight on their own at home base.
Ground troops need either space units (trasnporters) or mobile systems with capacity to move them. At home base they fight on their own.

Each of these GU/GT forces can get trapped at enemy base when loosing too many carriers. They can be traded back with 1/3-1/4 cost, the money goes to galactical federation whom will enforce the trade back . How ever if you fail/dont want to buy them back at x period of time. They just get destroyed by the enemy. The trade money can be colected in use to help the universe in a way or another, for example feed the bottom players, whom are following/completed quests.

Perhaps we can even add a tick box to tell you are a noob, selecting it will abandon some of the game choises, but will give u chance for extra aid/protection, such as free funds.

Ground troops needs to be fed? by producing enough food by constructing farms. The men are too weak to battle (fire) without the food and goes to "rest mode." You can still transport them away from battle field or keep them as human flak, but they wont be fireing. You can buy more men from clone factories. Ground troops are obviously hard to spot on from fast flying vechiles and are hence less targeted, which adds their value.
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Unread 2 May 2009, 14:25   #14
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

Excellent job outlining your idea Ave, I have passed this thread on to the dev team and we will discuss it further. It is doubtful this idea will get implemented any time soon, but who knows, maybe in the future if Appoco or Cin is bored we'll give it a try. Thanks for taking the time to write the whole thing out.
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Unread 2 May 2009, 22:23   #15
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

Yeah I do figure it takes time to do the coding and balance the stats. It did include quite a few ideas...

I can allways detail out the rest from this thread also, but I am not gona bother if none sounds tempting...
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Unread 15 May 2009, 11:29   #16
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

While I am on the run, I could add the rest here also:

Salvage is a good way to support taking actual combats and not be running your fleet all the time.

Systems to efect your amount of salvage bonus are definetly good solutions. If one wants to def his base and roids making plenty of salvage constructions sounds like a good choise (also the choise of having units colecting salvage.) You need to get the salvage based on your losses, not based on what u kill. This way we avoid any abuse. You can get xp from the kills instead, or simply make more statistic pages/ranks including kills u made, launches u made, losses u taken, roids u stolen and roids u lost and so on. They are always fun to read and fun to boost about them.

And while we are at it, I would be happy to see the salvage take place in attacks aswell. That way u dare to land on some heavier def also. Or dont lose your whole game if u forget/cannot check one landing of yours.

Salvage also makes u more happier to land on big guys. The roid gain aint so expensive when u get something back from your lost units.

Also then the defenders gets to make some kills also and gain xp, not only get a message to recall and grats. Since noone dares to land right now to battle it out.

We should definately add a fleet motivation/morale (equals to universal reputation, or it can even be its own thing still.) Which will increase on defence. Increase or stay same when attacking people bigger or at your range. Decrease when you launch on small people. Why not even decrease if it stays home to get dusty. This way we will support defending, support attacking people on your range, support fleet movement. Also we will make it less enjoyable to noob roid and also dont support people that does not add much to the universe (no fleet movement.)

So fleet movement and the moral it creates is to support launching on corect targets (less noob roiding.) If your morale gets too low and you atempt to launch, some or whole fleet declines to launch. Except on targets that increase the moral, like defence. You need to bribe your captains (lose credits) to get your morale back up.

Universal reputation could grow on the statistical kills u made. By donations you made for your alliance/galaxy. On scans you make. Referal codes u colect. From commander status on galaxy. On commander status on alliance (so we get more voluntary people to run things.) This all could give you points to increase your xp and decrease trade fees or priorise you on trade list.

How would universal trade work, well perhaps just a simple search function for what resource/thing u need.

Then it lists first available inside cluster options. Then based on everyones reputation. We should disallow trading inside your own alliance/galaxy to secure the universal trading and conections.

Either the trade comes directly or then u send a carrier on route to do the trade. Which then can be demoralized as shown above. Also active trading can higher your reputation. Perhaps there can be a tax also used to feed the bottom players and the tax fees gets lower depending on demand, so if there are only few offering population, trading them to something else would be less taxed.

What we want is more combats to take place.
What we want is people battle it out whom has matching qualities for it.
What we want is to have game mechanics to suppprt the game play we want to have in here. So none are tempted to lame play, since its more profitable. IT CANNOT BE!

running out of time to sort rest, but there should be nuff reading again. Sorry for the repeat in few threads.
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Unread 2 Mar 2010, 12:25   #17
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

spump
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Unread 5 Mar 2010, 15:35   #18
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

OK an addon in a good readable form.

[16:19] <Ave> Appocomaster: when do we get specialities and artifacts? to specialise our accounts even further?
[16:19] <Appocomaster> Ave: depends what you mean
[16:21] <Ave> Well developing the gouverments further
[16:26] <Ave> Allow options to play resource wise, battle based (higher salvages) or extra attack tick, Speedup techtree/construction for scanners and for tactical usage. Artifacts to imporove your scan accurate, making scans cheaper, adding armour, adding power to guns, stealth launches showing them incoming tick later without scans, multiple imaginary options...
[16:31] <Ave> Appocomaster to master your account fit more to your playing style, setting gouverment, choosing race, choosing specialities, choosing artifacts to build....
[16:31] <Ave> make it more individual
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Unread 5 Mar 2010, 18:42   #19
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

can you please stop bumping your shitty posts no one cares about?
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Unread 5 Mar 2010, 19:57   #20
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

Or, if he bumps them, he should at least provide proper reasoning and stuff. So far it is always just a bunch of random ideas without any back up arguments.
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Unread 5 Mar 2010, 20:05   #21
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

Erm, u missed the part where I detailed all of my suggestion? and no one really disagreed either, to have even any need to debate on it.
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Unread 21 Feb 2011, 12:33   #22
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

Army stats

Add ranks on made kills ships and structures, stolen roids, lost roids
Which do provide a better picture of someones achievements ingame, instead of just plain score to describe it.

for example, u can have a great amount of lands for kills, which can weaken your total score due the losses on your side aswell, but can well be the determing factor for your alliance win.

This will help build the alliance points aswell, count in average xp, average score, average kills and stolen roids, average value, and average launches, add covert ops if u wish.

This will give rather complete picture of attack success -> stolen roids, defence success -> value, activity -> launches, kills/cov/xp -> how hard/effective u have battled, score -> success of holding ranks.

Dunno how easy example made kills or stolen roids statistic is to transfer as score/table as xp/value/score etc. but am sure its doable.

Such alliance point ranking would give hell of a nice picture of alliance success regardless its size or rank in total score. Determines pretty well how hard you have worked for your success.

Still the politics factor is counted out, but perhaps some total incoming fleets average would determine the amount of hostiles and the roids lost. Perhaps an own table for it to compare.

[08:10] <xxx> :-o st killing is fun to do.:-D
[08:13] <Ave> thats pa's weakest thing
[08:13] <Ave> there are no battle reports
[08:13] <xxx> true
[08:14] <Ave> roid steals arent big enough to afford losses, nor there is salvage for attackers, only for defenders and gained xp stays as score, when it doesnt strenghten your army. Hence we see only recalls or safe lands
[08:14] <Ave> and no battle reports with steals, kills and frozen stuff

Keep the presents, they give reasons for visits outside political reasons, having huge roids or having retalls in mind. These can give nice boosts for someones round aswell. Gives reasons to improve defences temporarily, even change some game strategy if u can hold it for long. Gives players "missions" and battles to achieve out of political means, as stated above.

Add some public profiles of galaxies/players ingame.
Could include avatars, some player history, which u could choose to turn public or hidden, blogging to describe your round so far from your own perspective, could be fun to read such between ticks, perhaps the players own statistic page could be made public aswell clicking on ones profile. Perhaps some "players mottos" there and jump history from galaxies.

Still missing the galaxy projects aswell and in general stuff to organize galaxies, work together with them, force them in some social aspects and in use of galaxy forums. Having some common projects, perhaps even ingal def fleet of x size, some scan service, where fail alliance players and allianceless players could depend on.

Also same goes to cluster resurection, as many have requested. Either competition in cluester and a bonus given by cluster rank, Or then some bonuses for co-operating with them. Would bring back cluster politics, widen your social aspects and getting to know your co-players.
Some incluster trades, faster etas, ability to def incluster, regardless of an alliance. Able to announce some cluster wars of competing #1 cluster and so on, again bonus for gaining such place for all in cluster would be ace.
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Unread 21 Feb 2011, 12:39   #23
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

you were asking for too much last year and now is no different.
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Unread 21 Feb 2011, 17:50   #24
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Re: Universal marketing and other stuff, micromanagement and so on...

I realize I'm not the brightest bulb to ever light the way, and I have only played a few years but this sounds like new options introduced in another game I played.

I'm already confused and it was one implemented feature of the previous game I could never fully understand and/or use. Nice idea, well thought out, certainly something older players would love. I can't say I'd look forward to seeing them implemented. Much too complicated for my blood. I'd hope the options could be turned off by new players that didn't want that level of complexity. Some computer games I have played did just that, allow the user to determine what the game engine managed vs what the player got actively involved with.

Good idea, just too complex for me, in fact so complex I wouldn't know how to discuss it here. You have done a great job explaining it however, good job and well thought out.

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