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Unread 6 Jul 2015, 21:55   #201
Zh|l
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
Whenever I read zhils posts I have to laugh.. I can't help it. Only zhil could be called an executive and of course on zhil could be "trained" by the great sid to keep secrets. I bet you have a life coach and attend motivational speech conferences.

Laugh all you want. The game has to be entertaining and has personalities. Game would be duller without them. People like Butcher, Forest, Aga, Zwan, Clouds etc.

Executive was the rank system used within Fury and I've always preferred it as a rank compared to High Council. Plus the way Spore "High Command" was set up was more akin to how Fury command was setup anyway.

Trained was simply in reference to how I learnt majority of command through watching how Sid worked but the main point of the post was what Butcher picked out.
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Unread 6 Jul 2015, 22:44   #202
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
You voided the agreement when you declared yourselves for Ultores. In order to remain neutral, we had to show others that Rogues were nolonger under the protection of Ascendancy and Faceless. It's only logical. Sorry if it's harsh for you, but you were the ones to walk out - you failed to cooperate on matters that didn't directly involve what Rogues wanted. Asc and Faceless hit who you wanted, then when we required the same, Rogues didn't assist. The debacle between you/Faceless/p3n was only one of the last nails in the coffin for the deal, but before it could be salvaged, you had joined with Ultores.

You see, I don't need an imaginary world to know I didn't backstab Rogues. Perhaps you should have thought about abandoning Asc/Faceless and the consequences of that before waving an accusatory finger

As for the cloak I wear, it's in fashion this season thanks. If people really alter their perception of me for this round, that's their issue. I still stick to the word of my agreements and haven't changed in that regard at all.

Just because I'm not leading the anti-Ultores block for a change doesnt mean I'm suddenly untrustworthy. I've stuck by my ally, Faceless, which is what I told every other alliance I would do. You can never have a more loyal ally than me and frankly, if I play in a future round, I doubt I have anything to worry about.

Thanks anyway for the consideration, but I've been around the block a fair few times.

Actually no, the agreement wasn't voided the minute we NAP'd Ults, the agreement was voided the minute FL + you guys walked away beforehand because we didn't hit p3ng with you guys. Or are we forgetting that too?

After FL left the group conversation, there was no talk in the room whatsoever about the agreement anymore, which just led to everyone else leaving. But did you see us ptargeting/gal raiding either Asc or FL after that? No, because we respected our NAP, and we respected you guys well enough to leave you alone. Otherwise we would've gone for you right at the start and you wouldn't be in that position you are in right now. But whatever has happened, has happened.

It's just a shame we didn't get that same respect back. If anything, you're just looking to put the blame on us because you just don't want to admit that fact.

We had a bigger fish to fry, that was the only reason we formed the 3 musketeers, to influence how the round went, but instead you just basically plotted a plan in your head and went for that rather than thinking of whats best for the trio.

ON TOP OF THAT, if Asc is halfpro Ult, why on smurfing hell would you emo over us NAP'ing Ults. As I can see Ult isn't wanting to hit Asc, and vice versa.

Why not influence the round from that option. A deal may have been made, mistakes as well. But how you went by it after it was just bullshit. We could've just as easily adapted to that change and carried on as the trio, but like you said, Asc had the trust with FL beforehand. We approached YOU guys, if you couldn't trust us any further than that. The blame is on both of you. Not us, now stop pointing fingers at us and point it at whoever took that step.

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Unread 6 Jul 2015, 23:25   #203
Zh|l
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Blink View Post
Actually no, the agreement wasn't voided the minute we NAP'd Ults, the agreement was voided the minute FL + you guys walked away beforehand because we didn't hit p3ng with you guys. Or are we forgetting that too?

After FL left the group conversation, there was no talk in the room whatsoever about the agreement anymore, which just led to everyone else leaving. But did you see us ptargeting/gal raiding either Asc or FL after that? No, because we respected our NAP, and we respected you guys well enough to leave you alone. Otherwise we would've gone for you right at the start and you wouldn't be in that position you are in right now. But whatever has happened, has happened.
I'm not forgetting anything. As soon as you came into the block, we assisted you on your issue with p3n. Later on, when Asc or Faceless had issues, Rogues was mysteriously not wanting too help as much.

Oh please, don't tell me Rogues joining Ult would have led to you taking down Asc/Faceless by yourself if you had decided to hit us straight away. We didn't even ptarget you. Has nothing to do with respect to why you didn't hit Asc/Fl. You thought you could still fall under our protection despite us stating quite clearly joining either side was a no no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink View Post
It's just a shame we didn't get that same respect back. If anything, you're just looking to put the blame on us because you just don't want to admit that fact.

We had a bigger fish to fry, that was the only reason we formed the 3 musketeers, to influence how the round went, but instead you just basically plotted a plan in your head and went for that rather than thinking of whats best for the trio.

ON TOP OF THAT, if Asc is halfpro Ult, why on smurfing hell would you emo over us NAP'ing Ults. As I can see Ult isn't wanting to hit Asc, and vice versa.

Why not influence the round from that option. A deal may have been made, mistakes as well. But how you went by it after it was just bullshit. We could've just as easily adapted to that change and carried on as the trio, but like you said, Asc had the trust with FL beforehand. We approached YOU guys, if you couldn't trust us any further than that. The blame is on both of you. Not us, now stop pointing fingers at us and point it at whoever took that step.

Kthx
I told Reaper quite clearly before Rogues admittance into the deal with Faceless/Asc that the deal he had with Ultores may have to be forfeited if anyone was threatened. If we had just been a third block that was "pro-Ult" it would have led to Ult winning rather easily.

The "plan" from the very beginning was to have us stay out the big alliance wars and hit both sides in roughly equal measure as neither side would have wanted us to go against them. That was in the best interests of the trio. The entire point was not to let the other bigger alliances bully us into their wars and to support eachother by hitting the most hostile alliances to us. Where Rogues stumbled was when you refused to do that (despite having benefited from that policy previously).

Anyway, it's clear we aren't going to agree. Perhaps more communication would have been better, perhaps I should have made Asc's position more clear to Rogues on when you guys refused to help Faceless and went to side wih Ultores. For that, I apologise.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 00:07   #204
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
I'm not forgetting anything. As soon as you came into the block, we assisted you on your issue with p3n. Later on, when Asc or Faceless had issues, Rogues was mysteriously not wanting too help as much.
Really? What about your plan idea to hit Bows for a night? Did we not assist then? Since I remember hitting them for one night with the trio.

p3ng wasn't the only one hitting you guys, we had incomings ourselves that we needed to sort out. That if we didn't, we'd still be getting those incs.
If you had waited a couple of days then asked us, we would've gladly helped, hands down.

This just explains that you didn't want the trio to work in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
Oh please, don't tell me Rogues joining Ult would have led to you taking down Asc/Faceless by yourself if you had decided to hit us straight away. We didn't even ptarget you. Has nothing to do with respect to why you didn't hit Asc/Fl. You thought you could still fall under our protection despite us stating quite clearly joining either side was a no no.

I told Reaper quite clearly before Rogues admittance into the deal with Faceless/Asc that the deal he had with Ultores may have to be forfeited if anyone was threatened. If we had just been a third block that was "pro-Ult" it would have led to Ult winning rather easily.

The "plan" from the very beginning was to have us stay out the big alliance wars and hit both sides in roughly equal measure as neither side would have wanted us to go against them. That was in the best interests of the trio. The entire point was not to let the other bigger alliances bully us into their wars and to support eachother by hitting the most hostile alliances to us. Where Rogues stumbled was when you refused to do that (despite having benefited from that policy previously).

Anyway, it's clear we aren't going to agree. Perhaps more communication would have been better, perhaps I should have made Asc's position more clear to Rogues on when you guys refused to help Faceless and went to side wih Ultores. For that, I apologise.
I skipped the bottom part. All I read was "Hmmm, forget the nap CD period, and lets just 'gal raid their forts' ".
That's where you show your courtesy regardless of what happened. We didn't even hit you until the other day, when everyone of our members had a raging hard on to hit you guys.

The pro-ult block? How are you certain that Ults would've still won. Would they be able to defend our block if we changed our mind a few days into it and decide to hit them?

1 - Our focus should've been BF, shut them down before the "imaginary" bots take over.

2 - Smack CT a few, teach them a few lesson to "THERE'S OTHER ALLIANCES OTHER THAN ULTS, maybe we should treat them as a contender as well".

3 - Would've easily been Asc/Rogues in t3 if we wanted it.

On top of that, even if we had stayed out of the big boys alliance, we would've chosen sides at the end of the day. BF and CT hitting Ults? 2v1? Where's the love in that. I wasn't going to stand back and let Ults handle that alone, we went CR, they went CR. Why not combine our efforts.

I guess you're right. We aren't going to agree. We can only take things from here as something to learn for the next round to be Asc puppies.

1 - "Ignore our current incs and don't sort it out, lets just help FL with p3ng and lose roids instead". If you had asked us why, we would've told you that. But instead, we said no and as we were in the middle of explaining why. FL had a hissy fit, and you followed. It's that simple.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 00:30   #205
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Re: Second half of the round

Tbh its pure poor communication, that was when HR were giving us an ichy eyeball wasnt it? sounds about the right time. When we had them gal raiding us every night for a few days and we returned the favour.

But yeah it seems to have been a matter of poor judgement on both parts and poor communication.

Rogues and Ascendancy didnt communicate properly from the get go, it wasnt really a triad. it was Asc/FL+ Rogues and due to that the cohesion was iffy with both sides not knowing exactly what was going on.

Rogues napping Ult was a bad judgement call, in the same way that Ascendancy hitting Rogues was a bad call. Tbh not so much that, their bad call was not giving notice.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 00:40   #206
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Re: Second half of the round

Yup, it was when HR was giving us a wedgie. And Rogues isn't in a position, even if we had 50+ members to be an attacking force, considering this round it did improve significantly.

If we hadn't responded to HR in return for their gal raids, they'd still be attacking us right now. So we needed our 'full force' to put them off. Which is why we said no, even though it was wrongfully phrased. But as I mentioned. We were in the middle of writing out why until FL left.

So yeah, this was all down to piss poor communication. We're ALL to blame, not just Rogues, not just Asc. All 3 of us!

Regarding the -not a triad part - I agree completely. To Asc, we looked like extra fleets to be used. That's why we didn't submit to your every will.

To this day, I still don't think nappin' Ult was a bad call, just publicly declaring it was a bad call.

We both made mistakes. We both learnt from this. You've apologised like the bigger person here, and I can't do anything but accept while apologising back.

It's just a goddamn shame that it took this long to resolve this, when all we had to do was talk to each other after the nap was made.

No ones perfect, Rogues is a new alliance with new people who haven't done politics before, we're bound to make tons of mistakes.

Either way, what's done is done.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 07:12   #207
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Re: Second half of the round

It was because HR was troubling you?
Can I suggest that the obvious response was to do what asc/FL wanted so maintain the agreement, and put HR next on the list for all 3 allies to rape if they didnt back off?
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 07:29   #208
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Re: Second half of the round

Why? I didn't know it needed 3 Allies to hurt Rainbows. Nor did I know it needed 3 allies to nub raid together below the top 3 (at the time)

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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 07:33   #209
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Re: Second half of the round

It doesnt, but if you have an alliance for joint offensive action you might as well use it because as we all know, landing is as much about concentration of force as anything. All three hitting BowS then HR then say p3n will always be much more effective than each ally taking one of those on for three days.
It does have the problem that it looks like overkill and may convince them to unite in turn... but one step at a time.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 07:42   #210
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Re: Second half of the round

Pretty poor to gang up 3 ways on allies below us who are basically recreational/training allies.

The only reason why p3ng were so difficult was because of their spread out nature. It was really hard to do sufficient damage to them one on one.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 07:46   #211
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Re: Second half of the round

Ah, this reminds me of something else: why did Rogues drop the NAP with Ultores just 5 days after it started? We were all a little suprised at that, I think.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 07:47   #212
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Re: Second half of the round

Yeah, I always wondered that to tbh. Nothing that I know I'm afraid.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 07:48   #213
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Re: Second half of the round

If you had any interest in the agreement then it is worth a bit of bashing to maintain it. Pa politics basically involves ganging up on people, so politics is often a little bit dirty, but it is what it is.
Either the agreement was worth sullying your honour a bit or it really wasnt worth much at all to you, and if you think so little of them is it any surprise that Asc and FL read that as a slight to them.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 08:06   #214
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Re: Second half of the round

I think you should quit trying to justify this.

And you suggesting it's a slight to Asc and FL is laughable. That's children's politics. It's like being in a playground and picking on the kid that is minding his own business in the corner chasing butterflies. You don't have to get involvedin bullying to show your support for an allies cause.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 08:13   #215
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Re: Second half of the round

I was merely pointing out that your reason for walking out on the agreement held no water, HR hitting you is a nonsensical reason because it is a reason to maintain the agreement not destroy it.
That this may or may not have narked zhil and whoever runs the FL end was just a side note.
It is fine for you to look at this as laughable because you have done well out of it, but it is fairly obvious that this is the beginning of a chain of events that pushed Asc to side against ult and hence to a pretty terrible week for both us and them. You have just profited by free roids from a sequence of large coalitions first against asc then now ct so how can you get prissy about the possibility of ganging up on people!
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 09:25   #216
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Re: Second half of the round

So let me get this straight. Rogues retalling HR has led to the fallout for the rest of the round - . Starting to lose respect for you Londo - trying to justify your decisions by blaming others is a poor man's game.

And for the record, we initiated the hit on Asc! Call it profitable - I think it's your just deserts.

Nor have we hit more than 2 CT planets in raids while you pathetically turned on them. We are defending them in our galaxies as they simply cant cope, so another illogical non point. All you're doing is convincing others to not work with Asc again by trying to justify your decisions with blame and creating mistrust when there was none.

We also walked out of no agreement. We weren't the ones that suddenly went and said, let's hit the allies we've been working with! If you were unhappy with whatever decisions made politically, then you should have voiced it to our HC's with the consequences. Now it's all rearing it's ugly head. That said, as already mentioned, I didn't agree with the move to ally Ult publicly and resigned my officer position within Rogues because of this.

Pretty much sums up the lack of class within Ascendancy - even with Zhil trying to add to it with each mail and post!
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 10:44   #217
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Re: Second half of the round

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So let me get this straight. Rogues retalling HR has led to the fallout for the rest of the round - . Starting to lose respect for you Londo - trying to justify your decisions by blaming others is a poor man's game.

And for the record, we initiated the hit on Asc! Call it profitable - I think it's your just deserts.
Wait a minute here: you deny the causality?
thats odd because if the second paragraph there is true your chain of causality is actually shorter than mine was (it was convoluted).
I thought it was: you refuse to play ball with the Asc/FL targetting policy as previously set out >> We gal raid you (3rd force falls apart as a long term viable option)>> you NAP ult >> We see ult looks stronger while simultaneously the weakened 3rd force means we feel more vulnerable and pushed into deciding we have to join a side >> We pathetically p-target ult (30 fleets or fewer ) >> Ult/Rogues/p3n etc hit back.
You there have it simply stage 1 and 2 the same followed by >> you nurse a grievance >> you organize against us as soon as it is viable.
(There is no reason both of these chains cant be true by the way)

I fail to see how you can fail to see that despite the length of time involved most political decisions link to make the bigger picture. However if you truly dont see these connections then it is indeed obvious why you would fail to see there would be consequences of your NAPing ult and declining to join Asc/FL in noob bashing, how threatening the former in particular is to a force that defines itself by neutrality.
For the record I would not have hit you for not hitting who we wanted, thats stupid and counterproductive, and a seriously bad decision when it is obvious that we could have either waited for you, or just as easily given notice that the relationship was terminated. Zhil has given no plausible reason why there was such haste to have you refuse one night and be hit the next. (Other than Asc struggling to find targets, which was probably the real reason, but a bad basis for policy).
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 11:06   #218
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Ah, this reminds me of something else: why did Rogues drop the NAP with Ultores just 5 days after it started? We were all a little suprised at that, I think.
That was more to do with Pommeh I believe, but again it surprised us as much as it did most of you...

this round has been well... rather odd and disjointed.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 13:07   #219
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Re: Second half of the round

As I see it there isn't that much at dispute here. If we're arguing over the details over an arrangement that was pretty loose to start with and got flakier and flakier until it ended, it's just a matter of interpretation after the fact. Alliances have different objectives, sometimes they match, sometimes they don't. The reason we set up with rogues was because we saw potential for cooperation as they looked to be an alliance with similar ambitions, but it just didn't work out on this occasion.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 17:11   #220
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
It was because HR was troubling you?
Can I suggest that the obvious response was to do what asc/FL wanted so maintain the agreement, and put HR next on the list for all 3 allies to rape if they didnt back off?
You were in Rogues last round Londo, you should know how our attacking fleet is like by now. We 2 fleet attack and 1 fleet defend.
So we went full on with HR, so that doesn't mean HR was troubling us when we were covering majority of their incs anyways.

So the obvious thing is to drop our strat just to be Asc/FL puppies again? This works both ways, why wouldn't Asc/FL drop p3n to hit HR with us? (Seems pointless doesn't it)

i) We were handling it with HR.

ii) You're telling me that BOTH Asc and FL couldn't handle p3n? You really needed us? p3n is CO based, you're both CO, we're CR. You guys have a better chance than us. Granted, we approached you guys to help us with p3n in the first place. But they weren't our IMMEDIATE issue at that moment.

And can I just clarify once again, if we hadn't hit HR when we hit HR, HR would still be hitting us right now. It's because we threw everything we had at them, they got tired of landing/crashing us and then we finally decided to avoid each other. HR wasn't landing us, we were landing them for no roids.

Top of that, if we had hit p3n then. We wouldn't have been handling HR alone, we would've gotten the incs from p3n at the point onwards. Because we're CR. So no, HR wasn't "troubling" us, it was just an itch on the back that needed to be scratched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Ah, this reminds me of something else: why did Rogues drop the NAP with Ultores just 5 days after it started? We were all a little suprised at that, I think.
Our "agreements" called for it. As long as it was up, we ran the risk of getting those "mass" incs, or as people are slyly putting it, "gal raids".

We didn't want that because our morale isn't as strong as Ults. We lose roids, people will cry. I tried to follow Ults footsteps there, stay napped with Ults, lose all our roids and attack later when the attention is gone, until later when the attention is back. So props to Ults for being a shining example of how we should all play the game.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 19:41   #221
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Blink View Post
You were in Rogues last round Londo, you should know how our attacking fleet is like by now. We 2 fleet attack and 1 fleet defend.
Your memory of last round is clearly very clouded... our attacks were dire, and our def somewhat better last round!

I have to admit this argument has totally lost me and ends up with both sides looking like complete idiots.

Rogues' convoluted justifications seem to get more and more unbelievable and bring to mind phrases about digging holes.

Asc's stupidity is far worse than I would expect of what is a veteran alliance that supposedly knows ally politics very well.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 20:01   #222
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Re: Second half of the round

It's interesting to see the number of times p3n is being mentioned within the trio of faceless, ascendancy and rogues.

As I'm the one who does the dealings and sets out a few pointers for our BCs I can categorically say whatever you all thought was happening, definitely wasn't. The paranoia amongst the trio may be invoked from within or maybe there was just the realisation that they needed to find a reason to be sending incs toward p3n?

Either way.. I called it out a number of times to ascendancy that our incomings from faceless and asc "is taking the piss" on a 30 man alliance. It's humbling to see that my bullshit meter isn't broken which is why we pushed for the nap between asc and fl. Both alliances had the chance to nap us much earlier in the round but zhil would not nap without FL being involved or vice versa so nothing could come of it(ironically Rogues were never mentioned in these attempts to make deals.. seems they were locked in the child seat whilst the grown ups talk).

I assume once rogues decided to go with ult the deal made more sense and we ended up somewhat closer to the situation we are in now.

Probably not interesting for everyone to see my perspective, but as I say it's interesting to connect the dots in my own mind since you decide to publicly air your back room deals.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 21:08   #223
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
It's interesting to see the number of times p3n is being mentioned within the trio of faceless, ascendancy and rogues.

As I'm the one who does the dealings and sets out a few pointers for our BCs I can categorically say whatever you all thought was happening, definitely wasn't. The paranoia amongst the trio may be invoked from within or maybe there was just the realisation that they needed to find a reason to be sending incs toward p3n?

Either way.. I called it out a number of times to ascendancy that our incomings from faceless and asc "is taking the piss" on a 30 man alliance. It's humbling to see that my bullshit meter isn't broken which is why we pushed for the nap between asc and fl. Both alliances had the chance to nap us much earlier in the round but zhil would not nap without FL being involved or vice versa so nothing could come of it(ironically Rogues were never mentioned in these attempts to make deals.. seems they were locked in the child seat whilst the grown ups talk).

I assume once rogues decided to go with ult the deal made more sense and we ended up somewhat closer to the situation we are in now.

Probably not interesting for everyone to see my perspective, but as I say it's interesting to connect the dots in my own mind since you decide to publicly air your back room deals.
This does not surprise me in the slightest.
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 23:28   #224
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Blink View Post
i) We were handling it with HR.

ii) You're telling me that BOTH Asc and FL couldn't handle p3n? You really needed us?
You missed the point spectacularly there! I did not suggest you needed us or we needed you, as i said specifically to Krypton, it is simply more efficient to co-ordinate attacks and take the enemies of each alliance in turn. I was not impugning your attacking capabilities, simply suggesting that an issue with HR or whoever of whatever size and strength, makes co-operating with your allies more attractive not less!
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Unread 7 Jul 2015, 23:47   #225
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by booji View Post
Your memory of last round is clearly very clouded... our attacks were dire, and our def somewhat better last round!

I have to admit this argument has totally lost me and ends up with both sides looking like complete idiots.

Rogues' convoluted justifications seem to get more and more unbelievable and bring to mind phrases about digging holes.

Asc's stupidity is far worse than I would expect of what is a veteran alliance that supposedly knows ally politics very well.
I never said our attacking force was strong, I simply pointed out how we attacked, which was 2 fleet attack and 1 fleet defend with whoever wanted to contribute. And yes, our defending was better than this round, but that was because we had more DCs than we do this round. Note, I'm not DC'ing this round, nor am I DC HC this round.


Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
You missed the point spectacularly there! I did not suggest you needed us or we needed you, as i said specifically to Krypton, it is simply more efficient to co-ordinate attacks and take the enemies of each alliance in turn. I was not impugning your attacking capabilities, simply suggesting that an issue with HR or whoever of whatever size and strength, makes co-operating with your allies more attractive not less!
I don't disagree with this, you know me enough to know that I'm a team player. But how can we co-operate when FL leaves almost instantly after we said "no", and Asc follows. Like Zhil said up there, something could've been salvaged after that especially after we napped Ults.

But I also need you to understand it from our, or my perspective as well. If Rogues couldn't attack or handle HR on our own, then our members morale would've dropped drastically right from the start. And we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. For an alliance to get stronger, it needs to start at the first step, HR was our first, p3n was our second, in which we staggered. As Zhil mentioned up there somewhere, the whole point of the trio was to avoid the big boys war and not get bullied, we napped, we got bullied. That's how I see it.

Either way, there's no reason to continue this. Both Rogues and Asc made mistakes, we've both said so. Zhil has kindly apologised, and I think I accepted it up there somewhere, and the minute I can get in contact with him. I will give him an apology as well, for how it went while we were a trio, and various reasons.
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 10:10   #226
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
As I'm the one who does the dealings and sets out a few pointers for our BCs I can categorically say whatever you all thought was happening, definitely wasn't. The paranoia amongst the trio may be invoked from within or maybe there was just the realisation that they needed to find a reason to be sending incs toward p3n?

Either way.. I called it out a number of times to ascendancy that our incomings from faceless and asc "is taking the piss" on a 30 man alliance. It's humbling to see that my bullshit meter isn't broken which is why we pushed for the nap between asc and fl. Both alliances had the chance to nap us much earlier in the round but zhil would not nap without FL being involved or vice versa so nothing could come of it.
That's the nature of fencing. When you NAP or avoid most alliances in the universe, the overall number of incs you get will stay low, but the few alliances that can hit you will do so disproportionally. That was as true for Ascendancy (until we hit Ultores) as it was for p3nguins (until yesterday).
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 12:56   #227
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Re: Second half of the round

Mz:

Unsure if that was a reference to asc/fl/rogues naps that they had or p3ngs. At the time p3nguins had 0 naps we keep ours ingame to aid in the transparency for members and the others out there who won't then be second guessing as to where we sit in the universe politics.

The statement I made around asking asc/fl about interest in naps came due to our lottery napping where we sent out mails to all allies asking if they wish to cooperate and they were able to accept our nap requests ingame. Ult and BF snapped these up and ascendancy wanted some dialogue to discuss this further, it was during this time I mentioned the consistent incs and my wish to protect our small member base, to which asc would not deal without FL in this too.

Based on the above - we were not forced in to hitting any single one ally as we had no naps forcing us down that route. I'm still very much unsure of why p3ng are mentioned as a target amongst the trio when we clearly weren't targeting them. My only conclusion is you didn't want to fight up the ranks so were just circulating us through the low rank farming.
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 13:22   #228
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
I'm still very much unsure of why p3ng are mentioned as a target amongst the trio when we clearly weren't targeting them. My only conclusion is you didn't want to fight up the ranks so were just circulating us through the low rank farming.
For the very reason Mz said in reverse, as long as Faceless and Asc were being actively avoided by the bigger allies then consciously or not smaller allies like yours would rise to the top of the hostiles list.
As long as we were actively following a policy of neutrality, how could we fight up the ranks? To fight up ranks would one way or other get us involved as however even handed we tried to be we would be accused of taking a side.
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 14:20   #229
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Re: Second half of the round

its funny to see how this high iq conversation about the round goes on.

its impossible to read anything usefull, nothing about the round ticking right now.

imagine a common player looking all this hcs whine and thinking wtf is all this bs. no1 talks the truth here anyway. all propaganda. who cares!!
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 14:38   #230
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by [B5]Londo View Post
For the very reason Mz said in reverse
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
its impossible to read anything usefull, nothing about the round ticking right now.
Very recent information is valuable, so people would be stupid to post it here. The older information is, the more people already have it and the less releasing it publically can impact the round.

And keep in mind, this is the kind of information that is commonly only known among HCs and well connected players. The average peon in the average alliance is far more likely to hear misinformation, vague rumours or simply nothing at all. It's for those people that I post on AD, mostly.

But if you're doing politics using only information from AD, you're going to have a bad time.
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 14:48   #231
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
Exactly.


Very recent information is valuable, so people would be stupid to post it here. The older information is, the more people already have it and the less releasing it publically can impact the round.

And keep in mind, this is the kind of information that is commonly only known among HCs and well connected players. The average peon in the average alliance is far more likely to hear misinformation, vague rumours or simply nothing at all. It's for those people that I post on AD, mostly.

But if you're doing politics using only information from AD, you're going to have a bad time.
i think u get me wrong.

average peon will never enjoy reading this forum. thats all!

few ppl, feel free to include your self, post here for the avg peon.
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 14:59   #232
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Re: Second half of the round

Lies will always travel faster than the truth. All lies told here has already been sold and bought in pm's on irc. Posting it here is only about anchoring the lie to somehow validate it. This place is nothing but a nest of lies combined with petty efforts to save face. One could spend a week pointing out the factual lies in this thread, not even covering them all, and still be ignored. The whole of AD is pointless and void if you're looking for more than a laugh, unless you're just here to state the obvious now and then.
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 15:25   #233
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by DrunkenViking View Post
Lies will always travel faster than the truth. All lies told here has already been sold and bought in pm's on irc. Posting it here is only about anchoring the lie to somehow validate it. This place is nothing but a nest of lies combined with petty efforts to save face. One could spend a week pointing out the factual lies in this thread, not even covering them all, and still be ignored. The whole of AD is pointless and void if you're looking for more than a laugh, unless you're just here to state the obvious now and then.
i must improve my english, thats what im trying to say.

why cant ppl talk about real cool things, like who persuaded ppl to hit CT? why asc helps BF that much? why FL choose ASC to nap? after being FC and losing last round bcoz of them?

enlight ppl, i bet u all know the answers for this question.
point out why p3ng and rogues did this or that is just lame.
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 15:50   #234
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Re: Second half of the round

Since when has AD been a source of information more than a river of tears? Rather rhetorical so I'll just answer it myself, I can't recall an era when that would've happened.

The round has had some surprises and some rather expected outcomes so far. Myself being mostly just a #support -peon and AFK over half the round, I can't really get to details behind those actions and that's why it's nice to read the older stuff in here as well (especially with a background that allows me to somewhat understand all this shizzle). The proportions of this ASC-Rogues thingamajig have gotten a bit out of hands tho and way too many posts have been posted that aren't really helping to get the point out of it either. Seems like both of them made mistakes and it resulted in what has happened and that's about it. No point in flooding this nice board with more nonsense about it.

What comes to other stuff that's happened during the round...
I found it amusing that FL/ASC(/Rog) formed a third block that let the BF/CT - ULT/ND (and whatever other tags) fight a bit more fair fight than has normally been seen. (Judging it more fair by KIA and some discussions with people in the fight). ASC hitting ULT kinda flipped ULT over and what's happening now (purely IMO) seems to be preparations to do the same to BF what happened to CT before (might be too late tho). That'll give ASC a decent chance to win the round (whatever zhill or anyone else said, that must have been luring in the background all round, they do have quite awesome players in tag anyway). It'll surely be a bit more interesting last week than I've seen in a while.
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 16:10   #235
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Re: Second half of the round

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
why cant ppl talk about real cool things, like who persuaded ppl to hit CT? why asc helps BF that much? why FL choose ASC to nap? after being FC and losing last round bcoz of them?
I don't actually know the answer to most of these questions but it is easy enough to take a few educated guesses
why the ASC/FL alliance?
There has been enough posts on the third block to see the benefits of said alliance since both started the round expecting to be large but not top alliances. Perhaps FL was either not aware that Asc took in HODORs or did not care because those who are in charge were not HODOR.
Why asc helps BF?
You mean why did asc side with BF rather than the other way round? Quite simply because it saw a chance to win, and thought Ult the stronger opponent who it would be harder to beat in a roid race once the other side of the then ongoing conflict was finished off. Ofc Asc having lost its roids, and BF not losing theirs rendered this irrelevant.
Who persuaded people to hit CT?
I have no idea who, but clearly from Ult's side it would have been obvious Asc was being beaten but this was giving BF a clear run since ult was not profiting from Ascs losses. From Asc's side it was desperate to end its steady losses by whatever means. The only thing both sides could agree on was obviously to hit CT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
enlight ppl, i bet u all know the answers for this question.
point out why p3ng and rogues did this or that is just lame.
The rogues question got so much mileage because there was a dispute over it, things only really come out on the forum when someone posts something that is either plain wrong or just so partisan that the other side feels the need to call them out on it. So having put forward theories for your questions: you can now hope I'm so wrong that my post will be butchered by people more in the know and in the process of the disputation the truth shall emerge.... or not!
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 17:12   #236
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by lokken View Post
As I see it there isn't that much at dispute here. If we're arguing over the details over an arrangement that was pretty loose to start with and got flakier and flakier until it ended, it's just a matter of interpretation after the fact. Alliances have different objectives, sometimes they match, sometimes they don't. The reason we set up with rogues was because we saw potential for cooperation as they looked to be an alliance with similar ambitions, but it just didn't work out on this occasion.
Similar ambition? Make sure to gang up on same sized allies to make sure they are held down?
Sounds like the triad is a gang wich leeches of the allies that actualy got balls or is trying to make this a fun growing enviroment.
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 17:54   #237
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher;
Sounds like the triad is a gang wich leeches of the allies that actualy got balls or is trying to make this a fun growing enviroment.
And who would this be?
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 19:01   #238
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Munkee View Post
Both alliances had the chance to nap us much earlier in the round but zhil would not nap without FL being involved or vice versa so nothing could come of it(ironically Rogues were never mentioned in these attempts to make deals.. seems they were locked in the child seat whilst the grown ups talk).
When p3n offered the ingame deals and had the "first x amount to sign up gets it", I hadn't even approached Rogues at that point in time. It was just Faceless/Asc as having a deal. There was no exclusion of Rogues as the decision to approach Rogues only came after that - it wasn't some conspiracy against Rogues like you make it out to be.
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 22:16   #239
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by NoXiouS View Post
whatever zhill or anyone else said, that must have been luring in the background all round, they do have quite awesome players in tag anyway
At round start, we talked about our goals in Ascendancy, and it turned out about half the alliance wanted to troll and the other half wanted to carebear. We pretty much decided to go with the flow. If the round was shit, we'd troll. If it was good, we'd carebear.

About halfway into the round it had become clear that there were 2 reasonably evenly matched blocks that didn't want to make us (Asc + FL) enemies, so we started focusing more on doing well. You can see this in our size graph, which was rather flat until tick 450 or so, and started looking better from that point on.

Only when we found ourselves in second place on value with a comfortable roid lead (around tick 700) did we start believing we had a reasonable shot at winning, so we took it, and here we are.

So yes, it was always on our mind. Ascendancy has always believed in taking the opportunity when it presents itself. There was no long-term plan for winning, though.
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Unread 8 Jul 2015, 22:50   #240
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Re: Second half of the round

I wouldn't accuse anyone for going for the win, the more competitors there are, the more fun the rounds tend to be and tbf, you did play it quite nicely for a loooong time. Personally I'm not counting ASC out of the competition yet either, I'm sure Zhil has a bag of minieggs full of tricks left
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Unread 9 Jul 2015, 09:09   #241
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Re: Second half of the round

Gotta confess I didn't read everything but...

Same shit, different day,

Everyone hit ult, ult get battered. The idiots will stop hitting Ult, Ult rise and win..

GG
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Unread 9 Jul 2015, 11:16   #242
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by CBA View Post
Gotta confess I didn't read everything but...

Same shit, different day,

Everyone hit ult, ult get battered. The idiots will stop hitting Ult, Ult rise and win..

GG
Bit premature to say Ultores are winning when they are 30k roids, 30 mil value and 25 mil score behind on #1 with only 1 week to go.
I think BF will win with a comfortable lead.
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Unread 9 Jul 2015, 12:47   #243
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Nitros View Post
Bit premature to say Ultores are winning when they are 30k roids, 30 mil value and 25 mil score behind on #1 with only 1 week to go.
I think BF will win with a comfortable lead.
well, Ult have came back from situations like this before and gone on to win the round, only time will tell really
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Unread 9 Jul 2015, 14:59   #244
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Re: Second half of the round

lol
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Unread 9 Jul 2015, 15:07   #245
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Re: Second half of the round

Yes yes! I am sure we will end up wining with a 100mil lead!

Also I will win planet and HaSu will end second!
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Unread 9 Jul 2015, 17:38   #246
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Re: Second half of the round

Good god, I knew a week ago that Ult weren't going to win this round. Anyone who believes otherwise is clearly milking anti-Ult propaganda for all it's worth.
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Unread 9 Jul 2015, 18:07   #247
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Zh|l View Post
Good god, I knew a week ago that Ult weren't going to win this round. Anyone who believes otherwise is clearly milking anti-Ult propaganda for all it's worth.
Exactly. They are already laying the groundwork and stoking the public sentiment to form a block for next round to teamup against Ult. Tis truly amazing.
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Unread 9 Jul 2015, 18:35   #248
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
Exactly. They are already laying the groundwork and stoking the public sentiment to form a block for next round to teamup against Ult. Tis truly amazing.
Ult is so far ahead of all the other alliances, that if anyone else wants to win next round they must make sure they are getting Ult killed off
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Unread 9 Jul 2015, 18:40   #249
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
Ult is so far ahead of all the other alliances, that if anyone else wants to win next round they must make sure they are getting Ult killed off
So you admit, then, that unless Ult disbands or quits altogether, the entire game should be spent just killing them. Nice. Glad to see we all have our priorities straight. Gonna suck off BF again next round for some easy targets, while they waddle to the top again?
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Unread 9 Jul 2015, 18:55   #250
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Re: Second half of the round

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Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
So you admit, then, that unless Ult disbands or quits altogether, the entire game should be spent just killing them. Nice. Glad to see we all have our priorities straight. Gonna suck off BF again next round for some easy targets, while they waddle to the top again?
Haha, the force is strong in this one.
Unless you beat Ultores, you wont win.
Ultores also put themself in this position from my point of view, maybe they felt that they were running out of targets earlier on this round, and started dropping the NAPs with the smaller allies?
For sure BowS would be unlikely to take any deals with the likes of CT/BF if we were allready filled up with NAPs/avoidances
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