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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 19:55   #101
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

as far as i know we've been fourth then aswell.. behind nd/insom/lch at some point...

as for 1up's greatest enemies... we've fought lch most rounds. i still rate them our finest enemies ever. they always put up a fight (cept last part of last round)
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 19:56   #102
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
NO!

I think the purpose of not informing alliance HCs is so that closed planets, which are pending investigation, are sometimes reopened and no planet deserves to be kicked from an alliance for something that is later proved to be not cheating or a mistake, etc.

-NitinA
I think to suggest that alliance HC are incapable of realising that is an insult to alliance HC.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 19:58   #103
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Who ever said ND and eXi aren't enemies?

And 1up was never behind ND in the rankings last round
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 20:00   #104
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
I think to suggest that alliance HC are incapable of realising that is an insult to alliance HC.
anyone who doesnt realise it shouldnt be HC
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 20:09   #105
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
And you never had a poor start last round

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
And 1up was never behind ND in the rankings last round
Hang on, are you actually saying that an alliance is only REALLY in the shit if it's behind ND? I never expected you to say that!
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 20:54   #106
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

is it just me or does anyone else imagine a channel with the full 1up propaganda squad sittin rd waitin patiently for their turn to post
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 21:09   #107
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
is it just me or does anyone else imagine a channel with the full 1up propaganda squad sittin rd waitin patiently for their turn to post
its just you
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 21:09   #108
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

It is not just you. It has seemed that way to me, since I started reading these boards.

Edit: As expected this one earnt me a negrep. Expecting more though, this isn't good enough 1up, come on! "noobhead" is also not funny as a reason.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 21:10   #109
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
It is not just you. It has seemed that way to me, since I started reading these boards.
kebab your opinion dont count
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 21:13   #110
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Ok. Now I am really scared. You posted like 30 seconds after I had hit Reply.


(My opinion counts fs)
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 21:18   #111
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
Ok. Now I am really scared. You posted like 30 seconds after I had hit Reply.


(My opinion counts fs)
cos if you look our initial posts were both posted 20:09

and like hell it does
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 21:59   #112
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
Hang on, are you actually saying that an alliance is only REALLY in the shit if it's behind ND? I never expected you to say that!
The 2 quotes aren't linked, dumbass.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 22:40   #113
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
The 2 quotes aren't linked, dumbass.
Clearly I need to work harder at this whole 'humour' concept.

Seriously though, that's how I read it.
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 23:14   #114
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

i Have nothing against 1up's Pr department, infact they do a gd job. But they win most arguments because 10 or so of them turn up and make so many posts that any one who was actually interested in the first discussion gets so bored and outnumbered that they give up. I respect people like kjeldoran etc who can sit and argue a point with 10 1up posters at once because i cant , and it seem a lot of allies cant be bothered anymore these days, which is a shame for AD in the long run .
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Unread 8 Nov 2005, 23:15   #115
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

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its just you
thank you for helping my conspiracy theory
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 00:19   #116
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

completely irrelevant to most of the discussion at hand, i don't think any 1up poster here has stated or implied the reason for us not winning is because everyone above is cheating. stop trying to brush off proper concerns by ridiculously shit assumptions.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 00:39   #117
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
I think to suggest that alliance HC are incapable of realising that is an insult to alliance HC.
Bashar, I honestly meant it as no insult to yourself or any other alliance HC. I apologize if it came off that way as well. What I meant to iterate was I have seen cases, in support, in the previous rounds I've seen smaller alliance HCs that would kick a member out whose MH case was pending--which I feel was the wrong choice on the part of those HC (it happened on three seperate occasions, iirc).

-NitinA
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 00:46   #118
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

I didn't take offence, I was more making a point than trying to complain (i.e. that the suggestion is one which would apply as exceptions rather than a rule - and you can never base your decisions on the exceptions, you have to base them on the rule and try to fit the exceptions in).

I too have seen members who are closed being kicked. I have kicked members who are closed but not deleted before myself because I have seen the evidence and the explanation and decided that there was no bloody way I wanted to be in an alliance with them. In those cases if admins of whichever games it was in had reopened, I'd have thought worse of them. I have also however had members PM me and say "I've been closed for <insert whatever details here>, I just wanted to let you know. Admins are dealing with it" and I've then done nothing more about it until the admin decision was made. Every person is dealt with case by case, but ultimately, they will not be dealt with unfairly because of being closed as alliances need their members as much as members need their alliance, and getting rid of members unjustly doesn't help any alliances cause.

It is also ultimately an internal matter, and not one that I think should concern PA-Team.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 00:46   #119
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

then the mh's were wrong? as they closed people who didn't cheat... as marv told me today they are only closed if it's fully proven else they won't be.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 03:11   #120
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
is it just me or does anyone else imagine a channel with the full 1up propaganda squad sittin rd waitin patiently for their turn to post
In the old days we called it "Fury PR Squad".
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 03:24   #121
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
It is also ultimately an internal matter, and not one that I think should concern PA-Team.
On the flip-side, planet closures and violations of the EULA are a matter between the Multihunters and the player. I couldn't agree more that alliances need their members and members need their alliances--it's a quasi-social contract. But the enforcement of the game's general rules (EULA) and the actual playing of the game/metagame (which is inclusive of the alliance <-> member "contract") are two seperate entities and the MH team has no obgligation to report it to their alliance, in my opinion. If the MH team did have a responsibility to report it to the alliance (which I don't think they don't--as there's no justification to report violations of EULA to factions of the metagame), surely they have a responsibility to report it to the galaxy commander, any battle groups the member is in, a cluster alliance, etc. I just don't see any sound logical basis for why the MH team has this responsibility to report it to alliances--though if someone has a valid arguement I'm willing to listen and change my opinion.

cypher: To my knowledge, planets are closed (after sufficient evidence is found), mailed & given a Case-ID, and allowed to speak their side. After that point if there is a legitimate reason a planet is reopened. I can't give details, as I'm not a MH and don't know the specifics. But they are permanantly closed after it's fully proven. I would tend to think that a majority of planets which are closed are not reopened (permanently closed), but I'm sure there have been cases where planets have been reopened.

For the most part the multihunters do their job well, and my guess is that only one out of a *lot* of closures are ever mentioned on the PA forums, criticized by members, or gain any widespread attention.

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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 03:42   #122
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
On the flip-side, planet closures and violations of the EULA are a matter between the Multihunters and the player. I couldn't agree more that alliances need their members and members need their alliances--it's a quasi-social contract. But the enforcement of the game's general rules (EULA) and the actual playing of the game/metagame (which is inclusive of the alliance <-> member "contract") are two seperate entities and the MH team has no obgligation to report it to their alliance, in my opinion. If the MH team did have a responsibility to report it to the alliance (which I don't think they don't--as there's no justification to report violations of EULA to factions of the metagame), surely they have a responsibility to report it to the galaxy commander, any battle groups the member is in, a cluster alliance, etc. I just don't see any sound logical basis for why the MH team has this responsibility to report it to alliances--though if someone has a valid arguement I'm willing to listen and change my opinion.

-NitinA
yet in order to curb cheating it requires effort from the MHs and alliance HC/command, just one wont work
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 05:56   #123
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifler
yet in order to curb cheating it requires effort from the MHs and alliance HC/command, just one wont work
That's not true. Alliance HCs should not encourage cheating. The *only* group which can literally curb cheating (excluding verbal demonization) is the multihunters.

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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 08:55   #124
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

If members know they won't have an alliance if they cheat, that is going to be more effective at stopping cheating than multi-hunting will ever be, as most players now play solely for their alliance. Also, cheating gives alliances a bad name, so it is very much an alliances business when a member cheats.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 09:50   #125
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
Well in all honesty cypher who else is that going to be aimed at?

Which alliance has been accused of cheating more than any other since LDK left the game?
That would be FAnG ... Exi has not endured a tenth of the cheating accusations as we had in the earlier days
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 09:55   #126
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by gzambo
is it just me or does anyone else imagine a channel with the full 1up propaganda squad sittin rd waitin patiently for their turn to post
It's hardly propaganda or PR.

Most people here are just giving their personal opinion on the sorry state of affairs surrounding cheaters in the round.

If you confronted most people, they'd hasten to add that they didn't speak for their alliance, but it is their own personal opinion
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 10:00   #127
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

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Originally Posted by Rinoa
i Have nothing against 1up's Pr department, infact they do a gd job. But they win most arguments because 10 or so of them turn up and make so many posts that any one who was actually interested in the first discussion gets so bored and outnumbered that they give up. I respect people like kjeldoran etc who can sit and argue a point with 10 1up posters at once because i cant , and it seem a lot of allies cant be bothered anymore these days, which is a shame for AD in the long run .
Hehe, I'm getting used to the likes of Idler, jerome, Chika, Mazz, angryduck, Zhil, Treveler, Bashar .... 2 more

Though some of those I just named I respect greatly as they have a good sence of discussing without degrading or insulting the other person and I'd like to believe I have that aswell.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 10:01   #128
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
That would be FAnG ... Exi has not endured a tenth of the cheating accusations as we had in the earlier days
Considering the [gôsu]-bg's acc sharing that was quite correct though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
If members know they won't have an alliance if they cheat, that is going to be more effective at stopping cheating than multi-hunting will ever be, as most players now play solely for their alliance. Also, cheating gives alliances a bad name, so it is very much an alliances business when a member cheats.
You assume that alliance HC's do actually care about it. ToT, for instance, couldn't give a rat's ass about their members cheating or not.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 10:02   #129
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
Considering the [gôsu]-bg's acc sharing that was quite correct though.
Being correct once doesn't justify the 500000 times everyone was plain wrong though ... but I don't blame them because that's simply how it goes.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 10:17   #130
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

usual 1up propaganda this thread
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 10:24   #131
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

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Originally Posted by Agerus
usual 1up propaganda this thread
usual senseless post with absolutely no point
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 10:33   #132
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agerus
usual 1up propaganda this thread
Or maybe just that a large number of non-1up people have nothing worthwhile to contribute, such as yourself?

It's not propaganda, it is a very general discussion. Only way it's propaganda is if 1up is trying to brainwash people into thinking cheating is wrong.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 10:34   #133
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
You assume that alliance HC's do actually care about it. ToT, for instance, gave a rat's ass about their members cheating or not.
Exception, not rule I'd argue on that though.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 14:58   #134
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

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Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
Being correct once doesn't justify the 500000 times everyone was plain wrong though ... but I don't blame them because that's simply how it goes.
Still, it was comedy gold when you refused to see that they were guilty. Took you a year and that post from Parracida to realise, didnt it?
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 15:15   #135
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

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Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Still, it was comedy gold when you refused to see that they were guilty. Took you a year and that post from Parracida to realise, didnt it?
hardly .... but what do you know about it, aside from a biassed AD point of view?

Parracida is well ... you know how I feel about him and his kind

I never refused they cheated. Stop twisting stuff all the time. I said I was not convinced that they cheated untill PROVEN guilty. PROVEN means deleted. Closed means ACCUSED / SUSPECTED.

If you're too retarded to see the difference then I pity you. And if you're too big an idiot to keep twisting what is said so it fits your intentions then again ... I pity you.
I got no problem admitting some of our members cheated and got deleted deservedly. I don't mind because I know me nor my command at that time was guilty of cheating, guilty of supporting cheaters or anything ...
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 15:21   #136
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
If members know they won't have an alliance if they cheat, that is going to be more effective at stopping cheating than multi-hunting will ever be, as most players now play solely for their alliance. Also, cheating gives alliances a bad name, so it is very much an alliances business when a member cheats.
As I said, that's a deterrent. The multihunters are the only ones who can litereally stop cheating. All alliaiances can do is warn against and protest.

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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 15:29   #137
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitinA
As I said, that's a deterrent. The multihunters are the only ones who can litereally stop cheating. All alliaiances can do is warn against and protest.

-NitinA
You can stop a given account from cheating, no more. Alliances are in a better position to stop a given person from cheating. Surely stopping a person from cheating is better and longer term than stopping an account from cheating, especially if said account is only one of many. I'm not saying multihunters are useless or similar, but I am saying that you are wrong to assume that multihunters are the best way to stop cheating, that's just ignorance. There are lots of different ways of approaching it, all with their varying merits. No single way would work on its own, but a combination of all would be good. Alliances and multihunters working together would be a lot more effective than the two working independently. The sooner multihunters realise this, the sooner we'll see cheating stamped out.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 17:24   #138
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
hardly .... but what do you know about it, aside from a biassed AD point of view?

Parracida is well ... you know how I feel about him and his kind

I never refused they cheated. Stop twisting stuff all the time. I said I was not convinced that they cheated untill PROVEN guilty. PROVEN means deleted. Closed means ACCUSED / SUSPECTED.

If you're too retarded to see the difference then I pity you. And if you're too big an idiot to keep twisting what is said so it fits your intentions then again ... I pity you.
I got no problem admitting some of our members cheated and got deleted deservedly. I don't mind because I know me nor my command at that time was guilty of cheating, guilty of supporting cheaters or anything ...
The planets we are talking about here got closed, and then deleted quite shortly after. Yet you ranted for months on AD, claiming they were innocent, that MH's had done mistakes etc. You kept doing that untill Parracida's post, where he explained how Globe had got the information.

Not only did this show everyone that you were unable to grasp reality and imagine for a sec that the MH's actually had evidence, but it also showed you didnt know what your own alliance members did (including your fellow hc's heh).

To your defence it can be said you are not the only HC who have let a campgain to get your own cheaters off the hook.

How you, off ALL people here on AD, dare to call someone else a retard is beyond me.
(not to mention I don't understand how a sensible guy like alch can cope with you, but that's a different matter)

Just admit you made a fool out of yourself, before someone start post the links to those threads.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 17:26   #139
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 17:27   #140
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
Alliances and multihunters working together would be a lot more effective than the two working independently. The sooner multihunters realise this, the sooner we'll see cheating stamped out.
I agree with you Bashar. But I question some alliances will to participate in such a matter.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 18:06   #141
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
I agree with you Bashar. But I question some alliances will to participate in such a matter.
If they don't wish to, they don't have to, but that isn't stopping it at the moment, it's the refusal of multihunters to work with alliances that's causing the setbacks. Multihunters should give information on who they suspect of cheating to alliance HC, how the HC react to that is up to them, but plenty would look into it themselves, find any information from the members alliance history that would help prove/disprove the allegation and pass it on. Those HC who would boot members ultimately found guilty of cheating would often provide more of a deterrant to potential cheaters within their respective alliances than the multihunting team ever will. That means less people cheating which can only ever be a good thing.
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 18:41   #142
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bashar
If they don't wish to, they don't have to, but that isn't stopping it at the moment, it's the refusal of multihunters to work with alliances that's causing the setbacks. Multihunters should give information on who they suspect of cheating to alliance HC, how the HC react to that is up to them, but plenty would look into it themselves, find any information from the members alliance history that would help prove/disprove the allegation and pass it on. Those HC who would boot members ultimately found guilty of cheating would often provide more of a deterrant to potential cheaters within their respective alliances than the multihunting team ever will. That means less people cheating which can only ever be a good thing.
Some alliances, I'm sure it will be that way. Others will prefer a more subtle: "Oi. You're being eyeballed by the MH. Better cool off for a bit until this blows over." Especially if HC and cheater are good mates or a higher ranking planet etc. I'm quite certain that ND would boot cheats, and I would imagine groups ike vgn, f-crew and others would too...

You're right in the sense that 'plenty' would abide by this. However, I'm sure that the term lip service will apply here, as what HC wants to kick their own little 'circle' of people right? It all works in theory, but I don't see it working in the more tight-knit operations (Internal BGs for example).

I think your theory about it being solely the MH fault is a bit flawed... Yes, this will work with most, but for the few that don't {likely the higher planets/alliances} all of a sudden the offender has a 'whisper in the wind' coming their way and can quickly hide whatever they need to of their scandalous deeds, as opposed to an outright closure with no warning which would hopefully at least bust a few. The MH have an already difficult time with concrete evidence. Does it need to be made that much harder?

Random thoughts... though I maybe completely out to lunch [/disclaimer]
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Unread 9 Nov 2005, 19:25   #143
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Squidly, I think you missed the points, all of them.

The point isn't that multihunters say to alliance HC "we're looking into this person" - that would be a ridiculous idea, they are constantly looking into all top alliances planets and galaxies. The point is they speak to HC as they close. Now I dunno about you, but if I were closed, I think I'd notice without the need for an alliance HC telling me.

This pretty much negates your other points as they all seemed based on the assumption that I meant tell HC before the evidence has been gathered, however I will still reply to your point about some not taking any notice:

I think it would help force some HC into taking notice of cheaters, and dealing with those found guilty more harshly than some may currenlty do. Nobody wants their alliance to be known as a cheating alliance, especially not with proof. If HC have been informed, the whole argument of "we didn't know this person was a cheater" would be rendered obsolete. As a result, I think it would not only help those who want to take a hardline on genuine cheaters do it, but I think it would help persuade those who want to be a soft touch to be less lenient.

This alongside all the other points I have made makes me seriously think that informing alliance HC of their members closures, and the results of the closure (guilty/not etc.) has a hell of a lot of benefits, and no real drawbacks that I can see.
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 09:33   #144
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidly
I'm quite certain that ND would boot cheats, and I would imagine groups ike vgn, f-crew and others would too...
I'd be careful if I were you, thats dangerously close to an insinuation that alliances like 1up, Angels etc wouldn't do this and would therefore be endorsing cheating.
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 09:54   #145
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
The planets we are talking about here got closed, and then deleted quite shortly after. Yet you ranted for months on AD, claiming they were innocent, that MH's had done mistakes etc. You kept doing that untill Parracida's post, where he explained how Globe had got the information.

Not only did this show everyone that you were unable to grasp reality and imagine for a sec that the MH's actually had evidence, but it also showed you didnt know what your own alliance members did (including your fellow hc's heh).

To your defence it can be said you are not the only HC who have let a campgain to get your own cheaters off the hook.

How you, off ALL people here on AD, dare to call someone else a retard is beyond me.
(not to mention I don't understand how a sensible guy like alch can cope with you, but that's a different matter)

Just admit you made a fool out of yourself, before someone start post the links to those threads.
not even 10% of the closed ones got deleted eventually. So yes, PA team screwed up by ruining it for those 90% of which they COULD NOT prove they were guilty.

Maybe I made a fool out of myself because of my persistant posts, but don't you ever accuse of trying to get my own cheaters of the hook because I hate cheaters asmuch as you do and I've never, not a single second, in this game considered of doing it myself.

Why alch can work with me, I guess you have to ask alch and all other pple working with me.

You claim I didn't know what my alliance was doing? Lol, no HC knows whether his members are cheating or not. If he knows, he kicks them. They got CLOSED, so we waited with the kicking. Once they got deleted they were out.

Name me 1 HC in history of PA that knew his members were cheating while not acting upon it. You won't find in FAnG/Angels and you probably won't find any at all. So how on earth could you fking say "it shows you didn't know what your own members were doing" ...

IT IS CALLED CHEATING FOR A REASON, if everyone can see it then there's no point to it, is there ???
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 09:55   #146
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 10:01   #147
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

but it's completely understandable. Squidly came close to saying something bad about 1up, if you look at it from a certain angle.
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 11:37   #148
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjeldoran
Name me 1 HC in history of PA that knew his members were cheating while not acting upon it. You won't find in FAnG/Angels and you probably won't find any at all. So how on earth could you fking say "it shows you didn't know what your own members were doing" ...
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 12:37   #149
Seed of Chaos
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Talking Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by pig
Interesting question.

If its circular farming which im assuming is

Planet A is mother planet

Planet D is attacked by Planet C

Planet C is attacked by Planet B

Planet B is attacked by Planet A

Planet A gets muchos roids, xp and ships.

Then its very hard to actually prove it. If I was doing such a scam (which to be honest I couldnt be arsed doing, as controlling one planet is hard enough) then I would just say it must of been a coincedence.

If theres evidence of me doing it twice I would say "he was big"

If theres ip matching I would say "I play pa at university, youre exceptions arent working so what am I supposed to do, know who not to attack?"

As I say without any sound or substantial evidence I cant see much action being taken.

One would hope that the discrection of the multihunters can read between the lines and not have to follow the corporate bullshit that jolt lay down. Rather they can close some planets that show high levels of cheating.

pig knows so much about the subject he is clearly doing it and have thought up the excuses in case he gets caught
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Unread 10 Nov 2005, 13:41   #150
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Re: is it happening, and if so, what's being done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan
but it's completely understandable. Squidly came close to saying something bad about 1up, if you look at it from a certain angle.

I'm calling 999-INTERNET-POLICE right now!!!
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