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17 Apr 2011, 03:02
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#1
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Egoistic Warmonger
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 109
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New Alliances for R42...
Let's discuss it before R42 gets here, have a few people step up, organize some new smaller tags. Then let's see who still tries to argue against lowering tag size limit?
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17 Apr 2011, 03:54
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 279
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Quote:
Originally Posted by budious
Let's discuss it before R42 gets here, have a few people step up, organize some new smaller tags. Then let's see who still tries to argue against lowering tag size limit?
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i'm all for lowering tag size, but this is a discussion that will never end.
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HA-ND-EC-DLR-APP-ODDR-Kittenz-Carisan-Tal Shiar-Carnage-ODDR
Co founder ODDR
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17 Apr 2011, 08:48
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#3
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Old Skool
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 278
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Itīs apparently a delicate topic. But if we look at rnd 41, a tag limit of 50 would leave 8 alliances in direct competition, tag size wise. Iīm well aware of the fact that 50 is still the counted score mark, however it would bring a clearer fight for the top 3 alliance spot. Alliances would have to do even more politics than now to steer through and win in the end.
Atm most focus is on CT and Ome them being "big tags", that could be spread out on the top 10 alliances (almost) with a 50 size tag.
The "active" community seems to span 700-800 accounts. One could argue that 80 is perhaps a tad too big, considering that 10% of the player base in one alliance limits the possibility of a widespread mix of alliances and politics in the game - (obviously very few are interested in doing anything but roiding 15 player tags).
The only real disadvandtage I see in limiting the tags is that youīre enforcing the fact that PA is too small, and still shrinking. So limiting would come out as a statement that PA is gone in 3 years.
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17 Apr 2011, 08:50
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#4
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Up The Hatters!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
The alliancelimit HAS to be lowered.
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Planetarion veteran
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17 Apr 2011, 14:21
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 673
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Here we go again lol
__________________
At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."
If life hands you lemons, drink more tequila
After the game is over the king and the pawn end up in the same box
HA - asc -rdm-asc-VR- #ODDR - APP
Finally retired
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17 Apr 2011, 14:42
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#6
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...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 146
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
10 man alliances! oh wait thats just gals..... just thought i would speed up the argument a bit .
The problem with lowering the tag limits as everyone knows is that people who want to play together will always find a way so we might have smaller tags in the game but the players who want to play together will just make more tags possibly even under the same HC just defence will be a bit different.
Also having a hard limit of 50 would lead to alliances creating scanner tags the current setup of 50 for score and 30 for the rest seems to work quite well although perhaps it could be hard coded to 60 but much lower and we will just see scan tags appearing again even with the alliance fund etc
Last edited by Sebos; 17 Apr 2011 at 14:43.
Reason: planets changed to tags
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17 Apr 2011, 16:28
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#7
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Tides of Fire
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 318
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
If people just bucked up and got in allys of 20-30 though we could seriously have some fun with no a whole load of allys going for top spot.
Rather than thinking you can't play with all your friends, or you can't definitely get the win just consider the all out war of having several smaller tags and how much more amusing it'll be to play!
People complain about not having 50-70 or whatever it normally is, simply because they're not used to otherwise. I don't see how it makes the game seem smaller - if anything it will be more exciting and the game will seem bigger (more allys - more will be happening in terms of politics and war, much more #1 contenders)
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Quote:
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17 Apr 2011, 18:12
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#8
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Up The Hatters!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebos
10 man alliances! oh wait thats just gals..... just thought i would speed up the argument a bit .
The problem with lowering the tag limits as everyone knows is that people who want to play together will always find a way so we might have smaller tags in the game but the players who want to play together will just make more tags possibly even under the same HC just defence will be a bit different.
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Who the hell has 80 friends...
Lowering the limit to 60 is quite ok the way I see it.
Not that many alliances that start out with 60 before the round start, I think it is about high time that we approach the whole alliance system from a new angle.
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Planetarion veteran
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18 Apr 2011, 11:59
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#9
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...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 146
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
i wasn't saying one person has 80 friends but there are still some communities out there with more than 50/60 members. Maybe not but say 1 person has 10 people he/she likes playing with but he/she also likes someone in another group etc
But i agree 60 would be good since it still gives ample room for scanners etc (although tbh there is no reason now why a scan planet cant be top100) I have to admit it is pretty depressing looking at the universe screen and seeing 1 man bands making up the majority of the alliance rankings screen. I mean that cant really give the best advert to new players
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19 Apr 2011, 06:16
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#10
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Anarchy Shadow
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Nafferton, England
Posts: 324
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Not to look on bad side as I'm all for lower tag limits but you lower tag and if ya ally gets gang raped it be over within a week doesn't matter who you are small ally tags will provide mass rappage so an ally who deserves to win gets gang banged last 3 days of round not a chance in hell of defending as you don't have the buffer you currently have unless you impose 40 counted and 60 player tag that might work
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EX
Legion, Fury, Xanadu, Wolfpack, NoS, TSU, LKSAB, Vgn, F-Crew, CT, Insomnia, Angels, VsN, Gross, Osiris, ROCK, XvX, Faceless, Unsullied, Haven, Carisan, RaGe, Carnage, Kittenz and EC
Currently
In ODDR Command
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19 Apr 2011, 06:50
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#11
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Bad Girl
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: right here..right now
Posts: 1,055
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
i'm an advocate of lower tag numbers also, but i can see what will happen if they get lowered drastically.
high number alliances will have 2 tags, if the two are carefully filled and placed into bp's within galaxies then they can have a coverage on defence set up, those two then nap each other, attack together and 1 of the tags may well win a round because 1 tag can act as support for the other
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R1 - noob
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R11 -> NOW HR HC
(a round history not condusive to suceeding in exams, having a life or much sleep )
I'm not misunderstood ... I'm EVIL
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19 Apr 2011, 10:11
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#12
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Reservoir Dog
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Down South,England
Posts: 613
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistwraith
i'm an advocate of lower tag numbers also, but i can see what will happen if they get lowered drastically.
high number alliances will have 2 tags, if the two are carefully filled and placed into bp's within galaxies then they can have a coverage on defence set up, those two then nap each other, attack together and 1 of the tags may well win a round because 1 tag can act as support for the other
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Don't Apprime already do this, with their second tag being called ODDR...
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verTIGO | Ascendancy (For Life) | NewDawn | Elysium | Angel's | eXilition | Ministry (Honoury)
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19 Apr 2011, 17:50
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 279
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark-Strider
Don't Apprime already do this, with their second tag being called ODDR...
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Wow, must have taken you ages to come up with that stupid remark.
__________________
HA-ND-EC-DLR-APP-ODDR-Kittenz-Carisan-Tal Shiar-Carnage-ODDR
Co founder ODDR
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19 Apr 2011, 19:12
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#14
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PA Ancient
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ventnor, Isle Of Wight
Posts: 1,060
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark-Strider
Don't Apprime already do this, with their second tag being called ODDR...
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Amusingly that made me laugh lol Well done.
But back on the main topic i dont think you can ever force people to go play in a tag they dont wish to play in even if you lower the tag limit you will still get as people have already discussed just jr tags ie apprime 1 apprime 2 apprime 3 etc. Plus a lot of the 'lower skilled/active' alliances somtimes rely on numbers instead of quality. So if you limit them in that respect alliances such as DLR who have owned with small members for many rounds will just own them even more.
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Played: Round 1-13. PA Team: Round 13-17. The Return: Round 18-19. PA Team: Round 20. Return.. Again: Round 21-37 Retired: Round 38 Returned: Round 39-45 Retired: Round 45 Returned: Round: 56
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p3nguin Founder
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19 Apr 2011, 20:29
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 673
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark-Strider
Don't Apprime already do this, with their second tag being called ODDR...
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really showing you know shit right here, good job numbnuts.
__________________
At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist."
If life hands you lemons, drink more tequila
After the game is over the king and the pawn end up in the same box
HA - asc -rdm-asc-VR- #ODDR - APP
Finally retired
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22 Apr 2011, 15:43
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#16
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
An intresting point is that in this round there is 15 tags with double figures memberwise (noting some kind of structure) and only 5 of them have gone over 50. With maximum respect to HR and ROCK i would assume most of there overspill is inactive, new or half assed players. Which basically leaves 3 of 15 tags that have managed to recruit more than 50.
if you skimmed these 3 allainces down to the 50 limit and created another alliance out of what was left that would give us 12 allainces with 40-50 members - this is what is making this round quite intresting - cos even now ITS VERY TIGHT. This is what pa needs - if the prizes for winning were better aswell it would help too - im assuming the allainces that care about rank have possibly had to put a bit more effort in this round than normal to acheive there goals
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22 Apr 2011, 17:25
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 401
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
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23 Apr 2011, 00:50
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
lower limit just means we have to kick the inactives faster or rotate scanners out of tag. if alliance sizes come down then gals need to be easier to hit. seen rounds where it takes 2-3 alliances to hit 1 gal
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23 Apr 2011, 06:04
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#19
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
gm - in that case all you do is set a round limit on self exiles (ok some ppl will get round it but it will be harder to build forts up) and if your having a 50 limits then you just have to prepare that 5 of your members will be scanners or have them out of tag regardless. There both moot points as they would affect everyone. If you want loads of scanners then you have to accept you will have them out of tag or counting towards ally score.
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23 Apr 2011, 11:32
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#20
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Retard0r
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,164
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Smaller tags = more blocks. 40 man tags simply cant take on t10 galaxies without backup(unless you're allowed to grow like DLR a few hundred ticks beforehand). I'm curious as to what one wants to achieve with smaller tags?
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-Chimpie
* We do not exist *
* G-II * NoS * VsN * Ascendancy * Osiris * xVx * Ultores *
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23 Apr 2011, 13:17
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#21
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Valle is my hero
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,581
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
we have 70 man tags at the moment and we still get blocks so lowering the tag and having blocks isnt any different - the lower the tags the more tags you have - the more blocks you can have too. It wilkl make the race for 1st more diverse and fun and the politics are a lot more crucial to the round
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27 Apr 2011, 13:14
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#22
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Class Clown
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Florida, USA
Posts: 149
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demort
Not to look on bad side as I'm all for lower tag limits but you lower tag and if ya ally gets gang raped it be over within a week doesn't matter who you are small ally tags will provide mass rappage so an ally who deserves to win gets gang banged last 3 days of round not a chance in hell of defending as you don't have the buffer you currently have unless you impose 40 counted and 60 player tag that might work
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Kila_
I find that reading Demort's posts without taking a breath can make them more bearable
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<@Sun_Tzu> nolez is correct
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Round 28 - Ascendancy - The Olympic Glory of Michael Phelps - Rank 21
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I'll always give you a hand.
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29 Apr 2011, 12:00
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#23
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idle
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 968
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
we have 70 man tags at the moment and we still get blocks so lowering the tag and having blocks isnt any different - the lower the tags the more tags you have - the more blocks you can have too. It wilkl make the race for 1st more diverse and fun and the politics are a lot more crucial to the round
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its a common misunderstanding to think more parties make better politics...
instead of lowering the taglimit, i am all for completely removing it
- and if we end with just 2 alliances (i donīt think we will) whats the problem with it !?
remove the taglimit (keep the counting score at somewhat) and allow new players to join a TOP Alliance...
Allow em to play with People ending in top100, allow em to have fun and learn.
With restricting members to join the Alliance they would like to be in - we restrict PA from growing a memberbase - and thats only partly the problem of the diffrent alliances.
While some would probably stay invite only, others would open up their recruitment...at least if they can manage to manage a huge tag.
There is a ton of Possibilities to handle a huge tag without having to give up the top guys...
for exampel def priorities, def points or other priorities (diffrent Member-Levels)...
And thats where i would start to change the game...add more possibilities to the ingame alliance feature....for a start setting priority defence levels for members...maybe start with 3 diffrent lvlīs (i think more will be needed), but it would be a start...
For Alliances not relying on ingame tools, its even easier. And without having the need to have 20 diffrent tags, you donīt need 20 diffrent coders anymore, which seems to be the biggest problem in running an alliance with external tools...
m0 saying HI, well knowing probably nothing will be changed on PAīs code for a while, if not forever... (hint: i am sure they code a PA2 instead)
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m0rph3us formerly known as Bugz
"Itīs not about how hard u hit, its about how hard u can get hit and still keep moving forward! How much u can take and still move forward!"
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24 May 2011, 10:45
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#24
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ToF
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 607
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
any suggestion involving ingame changes is pointless so forget that morpy. however, i am all for no tag limit and see what happens for a few rounds. game is dying anyway so why not try new things.
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[19:10] <coffee-> dont worry about Reincarnate he is an angry man
R1 - 9 none | R10.5 - 13 [ToF] | R14 [Reunion] | R15-17 [Subh] | R18 - 36 PA vacation | R37 [Evo] | R38 [NFI] | R39 & 40 [ToF] | R41 [Omega] | R42 - 47 [ToF][HC]
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24 May 2011, 10:46
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#25
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ToF
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England
Posts: 607
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
or rather old things, but bringing them back.
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[19:10] <coffee-> dont worry about Reincarnate he is an angry man
R1 - 9 none | R10.5 - 13 [ToF] | R14 [Reunion] | R15-17 [Subh] | R18 - 36 PA vacation | R37 [Evo] | R38 [NFI] | R39 & 40 [ToF] | R41 [Omega] | R42 - 47 [ToF][HC]
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24 May 2011, 14:07
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#26
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
2 alliance round ... would be a change
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Missing Subh (r15-r18)
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24 May 2011, 14:21
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 386
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Just remove alliance rankings, that's one large reason for politics turning utterly ghey each round!
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Adapt has never been an official ND HC. He was on his way to promotion for some reason, but then got denied promotion. Lol at the muppet claiming he has been
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24 May 2011, 15:05
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#28
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Unfortunately removing rankings doesnt remove alliances or the people running them so cant see how that helps
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Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
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25 May 2011, 23:33
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#29
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SiNíng is a lifestyle
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Woodenshoeland
Posts: 241
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
I'm all for lowering the alliance size. Perhaps even allow a mechanism that lower scoring alliances may increase their alliance size to nivellate the difference between #1 and #last.
But please make a decision and stick with it, not like round 13 when some alliances based their strategy on the smaller tagsize and then having it changed back too 100 all of a sudden.
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Cloggystyle should be one of the SiNs
Now serving the DarkLords
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9 Jun 2011, 14:29
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 77
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
I'll enjoy seeing how the small tags perform
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9 Jun 2011, 18:57
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#31
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You've Seen The Light
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,152
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Re: New Alliances for R42...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiba
we have 70 man tags at the moment and we still get blocks so lowering the tag and having blocks isnt any different - the lower the tags the more tags you have - the more blocks you can have too. It wilkl make the race for 1st more diverse and fun and the politics are a lot more crucial to the round
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Lets ignore the fact that lowering the tag limit will force alliances to kick members who may not want to find a new home anywhere else (i.e. not resulting in 100% of people still playing and in new organised alliances).
but blocks would be substantially different if you lower the tag limit.
Lets take now
80vs80vs80vs80vs80 seems fair
now a block forms, its 240 vs 160
with 100% participating in attacks, it's 240 vs 80.. that's 3 waves on every planet in a tag when ptargetting.
If we take into account that we don't ever see 100% participation as the round progresses and that they require team-ups rather than solo attacks plus the additional defense available in gals. It becomes a much more sensible 180 vs 110-130 when ptargetting.
Conclusion: current tag size allows an alliance not to get completely owned in one night by a block.
Now lets go with reducing the tag limit to 40 and that everyone that's playing now will be playing then.
40vs40vs40vs40vs40vs40vs40vs40.. fair start.
now a block forms:
240 vs 160.. still seems the same?
240 vs 40 is what happens when the block decides to attack one alliance.
180 vs 70-90 defense available with galaxy's help.
Conclusion: its more than possible to completely own a tag in one night.
Then lets talk about the end of the round? How the hell is a tag with 40 members going to try to defend there #1 planet (or top planets) in the last week? It'll be so easy to overwhelm them, its difficult now but more than possible for an organized alliance.
If the tag limit gets lowed, you'll be turning PA into a clusterf*ck where you've taken any amount of skill out of the game and it becomes a case of having to avoid incomings at all costs which will result in alot more stagnation rather than more competition. You'll be giving blocks more power, not giving them less.
I agree alliance politics should have a place in PA but they should not be everything involved in the game.
but then i can get onto the subject of wither lowering the tag limit will result in many more alliances being created. The best alliances? how will they react to a lowered tag limit? one of two ways, split the alliance in two and work together effectively as one tag (which makes the tag limit obsolete) or they'll keep there best members and kick any casual, inactive, or semi-inactive member.
What will happen then? In your magical world, you're thinking that these casuals, inactives and semi-inactives will suddenly decide they want to play active and step up as HC/DC/BC. In reality, they wont have an alliance to join or at least decent one which could actually fight for #1. You'll effectively be trimming the casuals and inactives out of the game.
Why the hell does this argument come up every round. If you're sitting there wanting to setup a 40man alliance, just go and do it. There are many smaller alliances or BG's which have managed to have fun for many rounds in PA. The only reason i can think of that you havent done it, is that you actually cant be bothered.
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First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
Last edited by Light; 9 Jun 2011 at 19:04.
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