Planetarion Forums

JammyJim · 26 Mar 2003, 21:15

I have just begun reading Chomsky "Rogue States" and its opened my eyes somewhat on the hypocracy of US foreign policy and use of the United Nations.

I suggest you do the same..

Anyone else got 'good books' that are political and would like to recommend?

Belgarath The Sorcerer · 26 Mar 2003, 21:25

Quote:

Originally posted by JammyJim
hypocracy of US foreign policy and use of the United Nations.

You should be able to tell that from the media in general. Don't you pay attention when the news is on?

You need to narrow your question JJ, 'political books' can be anything from Mein Kampf to some John Grisham novel to hard sci-fi/fantasy.

JammyJim · 26 Mar 2003, 21:42

Chomskyesque. then

Yus but the news failed to show some of the stuff hes talking about.

i didnt realise the us supported indonesian agression and backed it even tho the international community condemned them.

i didnt realise that every major international body ranging from the UN to the EU to the WTO has condemned US actions over its neighbouring commie companion cuba stating they are a flagrant violation of international law.

AND IM ONLY ON PAGE 7

JonnyBGood · 26 Mar 2003, 21:46

How to plunder worldwide resources*, by the Western Nations.

*Potential purchasers should note that this book is a work in progress and it's ending is amenable to change.

Chomsky's cool once you get past his weird language and his penchant for meaningless gibberish implying that the USA is the centre of world evil at points.

Also there's a book I'd recommend but I can't remember the author. I think the title was capitalism, socialism and democracy, maybe someone else has read it.

storeslem · 26 Mar 2003, 21:55

"Unrestricted Warfare"
by some chinese dewd.

Dante Hicks · 26 Mar 2003, 22:08

Considering I have twenty Chomsky books on my shelf my answer will be skewed.

Chomsky's best book is probably the Chomsky Reader, which summarises his position on numerous positions. His most bitter though is probably Year 501 (not that widely distributed). I defy any even vaguely lefty person to read that book (especially the chapter on Vietnam) without wanting to declare a fatwa on US imperialism.

As for Chomsky-esque then you could try John Pilger. His is more "first person" (i.e. he actually goes to the countries) although he's not as academic as Chomsky. He's kind of the missing link between populists (like Michael Moore) and intellectuals.

On the Mid-East read anything by Edward Said. You'll feel the hate too

If you want a comprehensive reading list though goto :
http://www.zmag.org/readinglists.htm

In particular :
http://www.zmag.org/readinglists.htm...Foreign Policy

JonnyBGood · 26 Mar 2003, 22:19

I just realised as I tried to think of some fascist reading material to throw at Dante that I have never read, or heard of, anything remotely decent and right wing. Does anyone know of something good (if you say Mein Kampf I hope you catch AIDS)?

Dante Hicks · 26 Mar 2003, 22:29

I actually have a copy of Mein Kampf, although it was my mothers.

I don't know about fascist stuff specifically but if I was going to recommend (in the loosest possible sense)various "vaguely right wing" literature it'd have to be :

On Human Intelligence :
The Bell Curve (Hernstein and Murray)

On Biology :
Origin of Virtue (Ridley?)

On Economics :
Road to Serfdom (Hayek) or Capitalism & Freedom (Friedman)

General :
The Atlas Shrugged (Rand)

Not that I claim to be well read in right-wing stuff, but of the small amount I've read the above stuff is probably better.

None of that is fascist of course, but more authotarian movements tend to be anti-rationalism anyway and depend on emotional reasons for why you should have the divine right of kings or whatever.*

* = Yes the term right-wing is really stupid but shut up I don't care.

Lord Talon · 26 Mar 2003, 22:44

a tangent for those of you who are interested:

An article I read about this software that examines social networks. Here is the part relevant to this thread:

Not surprisingly, social-network software is ripe for political analysis. "A few weeks ago," Krebs says, "I got into a discussion online about the state of the country politically, and some people were arguing that the country was really divided, that we were back to where we were after the 2000 election. One side can't stand the other side. And I started thinking, I wonder if you could see evidence for this in the book-reading networks." Krebs used InFlow to analyze the network of book purchases surrounding two best-selling titles, one from the left (Michael Moore's Stupid White Men) and one from the right (Ann Coulter's Slander).

"What I got were two cliques that were about as distinct as they could be. I kept looking for paths that crossed between them. Every time I tried to follow one of these paths, I'd go out three or four steps, and then boom, I'm right back in the clique." Most strikingly, the two networks intersected only on a single title: Bernard Lewis's What Went Wrong. Otherwise, the two groups were engrossed in entirely different reading lists, with no common ground.

It's not hard to see why we often have diametrically opposed views around here.

JonnyBGood · 26 Mar 2003, 22:46

Ta dante, i've read Rand, but I haven't read the others so I'll give them a try! And I was looking for right-wing not fascist. Asking why there's no decent fascist literature is like asking why there are no rocket scientists who can't add.

queball · 26 Mar 2003, 23:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Dante Hicks

Road to Serfdom (Hayek)

"The Fatal Conceit: The Errors Of Socialism" is good too.

IndiaSour · 26 Mar 2003, 23:02

http://pdxbooks.com/compare/0785263535

American Conservatism at its... uh... finest?!?

I haven't read it.. just skimmed through. It glorifies America if I remember correctly.

JammyJim · 26 Mar 2003, 23:07

i prefer books which show america for what it really is or infact what 'western' nations are 'really like'. Chomsky has a dig at the UK too, not just the USA.

i have a book by Kissinger on my shelf which im actually quite looking forward to reading. See if the old womaniser has anything interesting to say....

Nicole · 26 Mar 2003, 23:21

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but I read a book that discusses class biases in America in everything from justice to the media. It's called, "Empty Pockets, Empty Dreams" but I don't remember who wrote it. I thought it was good and it opened my eyes to a lot of things and forced me to critically analyze my news sources (I was a freshman when I read this so know I did not already do so).

Nodrog · 26 Mar 2003, 23:54

Quote:

Originally posted by JonnyBGood
I just realised as I tried to think of some fascist reading material to throw at Dante that I have never read, or heard of, anything remotely decent and right wing. Does anyone know of something good (if you say Mein Kampf I hope you catch AIDS)?

http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/poli...ightBooks.html

Intervention · 27 Mar 2003, 00:28

I've heard "Stupid White Men" by Michael Moore is good.

Ditcher · 27 Mar 2003, 00:33

I could not get over page two when I tried to read Mein Kampf. Some people say It's not that boring once you get into it but I doubt... Has anyone here actually read it and care to comment?

Quote:

"Unrestricted Warfare"
by some chinese dewd.

Also known as Total War by Sun Tsu? Or.....
If it is the same I and you liked it read also Clausewitzs "On War" Its a bit more insighfull but teaches alot.
Recently I've tried to come up with Rommels book about infantry before his panzer days but so far no luck.

Mushroom · 27 Mar 2003, 00:36

Jennifer Government by Max Barry is actually a very good book.