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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 05:59   #151
Joseph
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Im talking about real cr fleets. Attack ones
Anyway. Gonna just wait the stats as always.


Edit. U sound like annoying teacher trying to explain something that even u cant understand at all.

And i want just the last 10 rounds. So i have 7 rounds xan fires after. Different points of view math skiller.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 06:16   #152
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

New trend with limitted class interferral? This is even more limitted than last rounds set.

And the point Joseph was trying to make incase unclear Tia:
All fr ships are steal or kill based against cr. Cr has 2 emp ships vs fr.
You've made FR an overly needed class, and NOT because of CR.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 06:18   #153
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

If Xan Fi fires before Ter and Xan De then xan and ter de will never be able to land attack.

Now i would be open to making banshee's fire before Pegs and Spectres but it would be a non-cloaked ship.

The other option would be making banshee fire before Pegs and Spectres but have Cutlass fire before phantom.

Even a 3rd option would be to make banshee fire before Pegs and Spectres but have Slyph hit Fi(free fire)

If Xan fi has init adv over every race except Emp it will be 40% picked, which I am trying to avoid. Just because the people that want to play "xan only" round are the only ones complaining about this is just hilarious to me. Because you are the kind of people that are killing this game.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 06:23   #154
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by TheoDD View Post

You've made FR an overly needed class, and NOT because of CR.
This i will admit. There are a few ships that i could modify to adjust this, Slyph and Revanant respectively. Was thinking of making Slyph a Co that hits Fr at init 8(after etd but before zik) As for Revanant i have no idea xan is already where i want them.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 06:50   #155
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Please let me know who told u the game is dying..
And i was just talking about the cr not killing fr. And terran shooting before 3 different attack fleets classes.
All this xan fi thing is just to u.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 07:29   #156
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Fine you all get to have your ****ing Xan fi round. I see 35%+ xan picked

Peg init 6 d/c a/c buffed to respect change
Banshee init 5 a/c decrease to respect change.

Beetle init 1 e/r decreased to respect change
Judge init 2 e/r buffed to respect change
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 07:34   #157
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

I would like the wraith to go from Cloacked to Normal, its pretty over powered as it is now.

The Mantis, and Buccaneer needs to get tuned down, as Joseph said there is only EMP CR, so the FR cant eat up CR.
Having only two ships in roiding classes for CR/BS you need to consider what we need to outflack EMP, and still not fall behind on the targetting system, as FR got Three ships in roiding class it means EMP resistance have to be played around With.

Id prefer the Dealer to be normal, the Gryphon to be cloacked, and the Baliff steal.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 07:37   #158
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

You cant have FI fire before everything! its enough that it can solo land zik and ETD
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 08:06   #159
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Try this and see where it takes the stats.

pegasus init 6->7
spectre init 7->5
banshee init 5->6
judge 39->50 e/r
investor 46->50 guns
tycoon 105->120 armor
mantis 85 -> 80 e/r
ghost 85 -> 81 e/r
buccaneer 87 -> 83 e/r
dealer 85 -> 82 e/r
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 09:16   #160
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Ill state this for the umpteenth time.

Xan having the only good anti xan fi is THE WORST dynamic about a set of stats
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 10:00   #161
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by isildurx View Post
Ill state this for the umpteenth time.

Xan having the only good anti xan fi is THE WORST dynamic about a set of stats
Beats noone having good anti fi imo(apart from beet)

Another change
Avenger de-> co
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 11:03   #162
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

It kinda looks like you had a certain design at the start, then changed things every time someone posted in the forums and now the shipstats just make a lot less sense.

The changes with Pegs init and Viper/ Rev init, removed the weakness of Fi/Co roid fleets to ingal DE/FR.
Which I'm guessing was intentional earlier, and made sense too. Now the Revenant isn't in your roiding fleet, has bad init and terrible armor and worse eta than the phantom.

The switching of CR/BS fleets around, left CR a whole lot weaker and only able to EMP FR.

And the Judge, which was clearly intended as a good way to stop cath Co, now lost its init advantage, making them rather pointless to build.

In the original set, each attacking combo had some good ship (or 2) to stop it, now that's not true anymore. Considering it's ST round, where most classes only fire at 2-3 other classes. If you also need a lot of value of the right defensive ships to cover incoming. I think we'll end up with even more roid swapping than in the previous round.

And with the FI and Co fleet, both not having any weakness vs FR/DE I'm afraid this will turn into a very fi/co heavy round. With fi/co also being the best thing to stop fi/co.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 11:36   #163
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by Shhhhhhh View Post
It kinda looks like you had a certain design at the start, then changed things every time someone posted in the forums and now the shipstats just make a lot less sense.

The changes with Pegs init and Viper/ Rev init, removed the weakness of Fi/Co roid fleets to ingal DE/FR.
Which I'm guessing was intentional earlier, and made sense too. Now the Revenant isn't in your roiding fleet, has bad init and terrible armor and worse eta than the phantom.

The switching of CR/BS fleets around, left CR a whole lot weaker and only able to EMP FR.

And the Judge, which was clearly intended as a good way to stop cath Co, now lost its init advantage, making them rather pointless to build.

In the original set, each attacking combo had some good ship (or 2) to stop it, now that's not true anymore. Considering it's ST round, where most classes only fire at 2-3 other classes. If you also need a lot of value of the right defensive ships to cover incoming. I think we'll end up with even more roid swapping than in the previous round.

And with the FI and Co fleet, both not having any weakness vs FR/DE I'm afraid this will turn into a very fi/co heavy round. With fi/co also being the best thing to stop fi/co.
To add, it is hard to evaluate changes when they completely changes the stats concept. Last night changes just created a different stats set with little relation to the previous.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 11:54   #164
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by fortran View Post
To add, it is hard to evaluate changes when they completely changes the stats concept. Last night changes just created a different stats set with little relation to the previous.
Agree
I just cant see anyone asking for a xan round.

First thing i said was good, about cr and covop pods,

After that tia changed cr, and now cr just cant kill fr, biggest def class.

I just believe u should rollback stats. Before the cr.bs changing.

The xan/ter discussion here was first to make ter bs get shoot first from CR, as cr is ****ing useless. U started with this thing alone.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 11:54   #165
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
Beats noone having good anti fi imo(apart from beet)
It actually doesn't. "Oh shit, xan fi are good, I need to go the race that can deal with xan fi.... oh hmmm... I have to go xan to beat xan...

=> 40% of uni goes xan


If there is to be a ship that outinits and kills xan fi then it NEEDS to be a different race than xan.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 12:21   #166
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

What is the point with the Avenger (Etd De)? Dont see why anyone would ever build it.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 12:21   #167
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by Plaguuu View Post
Beats noone having good anti fi imo(apart from beet)

Another change
Avenger de-> co
THis ^^
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 12:53   #168
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Quote:
Originally Posted by fortran View Post
To add, it is hard to evaluate changes when they completely changes the stats concept. Last night changes just created a different stats set with little relation to the previous.
This is why I tend to wait a couple of weeks before commenting. Going over a set of stats once is just about on the edge of the time I'm willing to invest. If the stats maker then swaps a bunch of roiding fleets around (as per last round), then even if it's the right decision(!), I very quickly lose motivation.

P.S. I still haven't looked, but Isil is right, it's a bad idea to have Fi be the best counter to itself. That goes for all classes, but Fi/Co especially.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 13:17   #169
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
Agree
I just cant see anyone asking for a xan round.

First thing i said was good, about cr and covop pods,

After that tia changed cr, and now cr just cant kill fr, biggest def class.

I just believe u should rollback stats. Before the cr.bs changing.

The xan/ter discussion here was first to make ter bs get shoot first from CR, as cr is ****ing useless. U started with this thing alone.
Before the changes there was nothing at all stopping BS.
I would remove the cath FR, and change wraights to atleast be none cloacked if they gonna eat up BS
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 13:46   #170
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Wraiths were already eating up BS before the CR/BS switch.
Wraiths as non cloaked seems like a bad idea.
As Xan you have to get hulls 3, just to build only the wraith, while you could build a ship thats 1 tick faster and fits in roiding fleet.

Considering how strong BS is vs DE and all the other CR, I don't think the wraith being cloaked, makes BS too weak.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 15:51   #171
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Slyph Fr-> Co T1 Fi A/c and D/c adjusted to reflect the change.

Xan fi A/c D/C decreased.

Investor -> Steal init 19 d/c a/c adjusted to reflect change.
Creditor Fi->Co init 20 T1 FR
Tycoon Cloak-> normal A/c Increased D/c Decreased
Avenger Steal-> Cloaked Normal init 4 A/c Decreased D/c decreased.

Not going to change Wraith at all, as was stated many times Xan will have to research hulls3 inorder to "effectivly" stop Bs which will already be a trade off for Xan.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 15:52   #172
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
What is the point with the Avenger (Etd De)? Dont see why anyone would ever build it.
Because its the only way Etd can cover Fi?
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 15:55   #173
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Because its the only way Etd can cover Fi?
Doesn't change the fact it won't be built.

You'll need such a big amount of them to start doing stuff it won't be worth it for a ship you can only use on your own incs or maybe in gal
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 16:07   #174
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by berten View Post
Doesn't change the fact it won't be built.

You'll need such a big amount of them to start doing stuff it won't be worth it for a ship you can only use on your own incs or maybe in gal
This was my first round as zik, ever afaik, and i seemed to do some nice stealing with my Cutlasses, just due to the fact that People kept faking me with only pods.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 16:09   #175
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

bring back t2 and t3 targetting for more fun.

Also zik should have a ship which steals every other ship - last round sucked with zik unable to steal BS.

dont give any races 3 roiding fleets like etd last round. 2 is enuff.

stick to tradition

xan fire first of kill ships

emp fires before xan

ter have best armour and fire power

zik kill ships are slightly better than terran kill ships

etc etc

my 2 cents
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 16:11   #176
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by BloodyButcher View Post
This was my first round as zik, ever afaik, and i seemed to do some nice stealing with my Cutlasses, just due to the fact that People kept faking me with only pods.
you'd build cutlass cause they were useful tough. now, Avenger could be useful also, if it was CO.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 16:15   #177
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Had you taken the time to check the changes that were posted or even looked at: http://beta.planetarion.com/manual.p...n=282550778334 you would know what I am talking about. There are lots of changes that happened in the last 20 minutes. Mainly to Etd.

Viper init-> 6 A/c D/c adjusted to compensate.
Gryphon init-> 5
Bomber init ->4
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 16:30   #178
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Slyph
What?
(Did you mean Sylph, perhaps?)
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 16:33   #179
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
Because its the only way Etd can cover Fi?
To build a ship that doesnt cover ally eta and outside of the races roiding class is a terrible idea. Particularly when the race is already sub-optimal on its strongest roiding fleet. Why would anyone choose it? At least this rounds stats made every race playable.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 16:34   #180
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

You were closer before you made these changes to etd btw
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 16:41   #181
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Avenger's primary use now is to stay at home...pointless when coinicided with Xan faking for fun. Stop messing around with the A/C's and D/C's until you have the ships in the desired classes with the desired T's and inits. Such a waste of time, when you're gonna be keeping on changing things.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 16:47   #182
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by Krypton View Post
Avenger's primary use now is to stay at home...pointless when coinicided with Xan faking for fun. Stop messing around with the A/C's and D/C's until you have the ships in the desired classes with the desired T's and inits. Such a waste of time, when you're gonna be keeping on changing things.
I beg to differ changing ac and dc is necessary as they are a big part of the balance.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 16:49   #183
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

But we're not even close. Sure, its important to consider, but these are so far off that it's frustrating to see changes being made that are inconsequential to the overall balance
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 17:00   #184
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

But instead of saying they are way off its better to come with input on whats way off and if you got it a solution to the problem
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 17:40   #185
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Which is what I have been doing.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 17:40   #186
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

But I daren't waste my time over it. Seems futile if Avenger is considered a valid ship in its current state
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 18:47   #187
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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But I daren't waste my time over it. Seems futile if Avenger is considered a valid ship in its current state
With its init 4, dont see whats wrong with it.

Any idea when the shipstats are a bit closer to finished Tia? atm it's a bit pointless to really spend a decent amount of time on it, since shipstats keep changing. If you think the main things are done, shipclasses, targetting, most inits etc. You could give everyone a day or 2 to calc. Then make some final tweaks.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 19:02   #188
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Wow, just another person that wants a Xan fi round. Soo let me get this strait, you want xan fi to Shoot EVERYTHING that targets it 1st so it doesnt have to worry about anything the entire round? Right because that's what I'm trying to avoid. I just don't even have words for you Krypton I can't tell if you want avenger buffed or de-buffed.

Also if you look, most has only one ship that hits fi/co AT eta, Terran the only exception. So everyone is going to have to rely on their fr/de to defend vs Fi/co in one way or another just because you cant ally def with avengers vs all xan fi incs boohohoho. I'd much rather change Pegasus back to init 4 and let xan Fi burn in a whole that it came out of. But as it stands Xan fi are hitting at ~~ 80% eff vs co and about 60% vs de. So I can let it stand. If your only Gripe is about an off class def ship that's not ally defendable then you can just take your comments off this forum.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 20:15   #189
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Can u please name who u saw asking for a xan fi round?
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 20:42   #190
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

Wtf u doing to the avenger?
It was a FI stealer yesterday, i dont see why you want to make the zik/cat/etd combo stronger.
Id rather give back the FI killing DE to Terran.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 21:19   #191
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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With its init 4, dont see whats wrong with it.

Any idea when the shipstats are a bit closer to finished Tia? atm it's a bit pointless to really spend a decent amount of time on it, since shipstats keep changing. If you think the main things are done, shipclasses, targetting, most inits etc. You could give everyone a day or 2 to calc. Then make some final tweaks.
It provides nothing to an alliance that isnt forting.

The Peg should get the init advantage and at least give it a strong attack fleet.

The original stats you posted were better Tia.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 21:34   #192
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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It provides nothing to an alliance that isnt forting.

The Peg should get the init advantage and at least give it a strong attack fleet.

The original stats you posted were better Tia.
The original stats was awfull
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 21:50   #193
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Wow, just another person that wants a Xan fi round. Soo let me get this strait, you want xan fi to Shoot EVERYTHING that targets it 1st so it doesnt have to worry about anything the entire round? Right because that's what I'm trying to avoid. I just don't even have words for you Krypton I can't tell if you want avenger buffed or de-buffed.

Also if you look, most has only one ship that hits fi/co AT eta, Terran the only exception. So everyone is going to have to rely on their fr/de to defend vs Fi/co in one way or another just because you cant ally def with avengers vs all xan fi incs boohohoho. I'd much rather change Pegasus back to init 4 and let xan Fi burn in a whole that it came out of. But as it stands Xan fi are hitting at ~~ 80% eff vs co and about 60% vs de. So I can let it stand. If your only Gripe is about an off class def ship that's not ally defendable then you can just take your comments off this forum.
Pretty sure most other people have said its moronic. And how does making it a co anti fi ship make it worse? If anything my suggestion would make Xan fi a less prudent option. Counter intuitive thinking, now that's what I look for in a stats maker.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 21:51   #194
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

And ftr, I couldnt be bothered to list everything wrong with these stats cos, well, there's a lot and its off season. I was just making a valid point about a useless ship that wont get built. Bare in mind my statement was made when the stats showed ETD having two fi ships and no co

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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 21:51   #195
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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It provides nothing to an alliance that isnt forting.

The Peg should get the init advantage and at least give it a strong attack fleet.

The original stats you posted were better Tia.
This ^^
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 22:02   #196
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

This thread makes me want to gouge my eyes out.

Also agreeing, the original set was better.
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 22:17   #197
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

The first draft was ridiculus imbalanced, compared to as it is now...
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Unread 30 Sep 2014, 22:37   #198
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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The original stats was awfull
I don't agree with that. They advocated forting yes but they weren't awful.

As it stands now, we're going to have about 50% of the universe 3 fleet attacking with Xan FI and mili hoarding.

There has been massive improvements in some areas but at the expense of others.

Put pegs init 4 and were back on track...
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Unread 1 Oct 2014, 06:06   #199
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

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Originally Posted by Veil05 View Post
I don't agree with that. They advocated forting yes but they weren't awful.

As it stands now, we're going to have about 50% of the universe 3 fleet attacking with Xan FI and mili hoarding.

There has been massive improvements in some areas but at the expense of others.

Put pegs init 4 and were back on track...
Avenger > peg init 4.
Spectre > peg init 4.

BOOOHOOO GIVE TER ARMOR, INIT AND EFF'S ADVANTAGE SO I CAN JUST DO NOTHING ALL ROUND!
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Unread 1 Oct 2014, 06:43   #200
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Re: Stats - Round 59 and beyond

The bias is strong with this one.
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