Planetarion Forums - lost 650 million res and PA HQ are liers!!

cbk100 · 25 Apr 2004, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

no, looking at the world's society, lying is far worse then cheating in an online text based game ...

No rules was broken so there is no sign of cheating...

cbk

King Cress · 25 Apr 2004, 23:21

ok then...

[21:01] <Karmulian> it has also been admitted on your own forums that you were abusing a bug
[21:01] <Karmulian> the bug has been resolved and gal funds of offending galaxies truncated (not just you)

--

Ur gal thought it was a bug, but now you say it wasnt

--

<programming> An unwanted and unintended property of a program
or piece of hardware, especially one that causes it to
malfunction. Antonym of feature. E.g. "There's a bug in
the editor: it writes things out backward." The
identification and removal of bugs in a program is called
"debugging".

(This is a definiation from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bug , not been doctored

)

--

"An unwanted and unintended property of a programor piece of hardware"

Unless the PA team wanted you to be able to have more than 25 mil in the gal fund, then it is a bug.

That is a fact, and whatever your situation is, that is true.

--

Your Situation (or from what I have read etc) :

[FACT] Your gal forums prove that some/all of your gal members knew that it was a bug

[FACT] Abusing (Using a bug to your own advantage, or to some-elses disadvantage is called Bug abuse

[FACT] As said in my previous post : Bug Abuse = Cheating

[FACT] Some/All of your gal have cheated

[FACT] My history teacher will get annoyed, cos its meant to be in tomorrow.....

Those are facts, if you dont think they are then please post counter-arguements with proof

Have a nice day

Forest · 25 Apr 2004, 23:21

i hate the way that ppl abuse the ga,me and then look for ways around it.

You are not some noob, u know how it works, fking act like it.

cbk100 · 25 Apr 2004, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrunkenViking

I've read your thread cbk, and i only gain sympathy with the PA team...
The fact that you experienced a block at 25 million res in the found should ring a bell in your head saying "oh this must mean that this is max" instead you work your way around it by looking for a bug to exploit, and when you find one, you dont go to the PA team to either ask them if it is supposed to be like this, you just exploit the bug.

Ofc you can say you "shouldnt have to play with comon sense, cause thats not mentioned in the rules" as you said above....but where the hell is the pride in saying "i'm stupid, and that made me win a round", you all are, and will allways be, cheaters, that i have no sympathy for whatsoever. Enjoy your accountless pa experience, hope you learn something, something called "common sense" and "fair play".

ahhh so now you say that all I did wrong was to be stupid. Nomatter if you are right or not that is not a good enough reason for taking the res either.

cbk

cbk100 · 25 Apr 2004, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stifler

but u also said you donated it out and then had it donated back with more to get round the limit.

second, if you had 500mill resources on ur planet (for what ever reason ) that resources could mayb be co-op AND it would raise your score so ppl would u had this resources to spend if they attacked. In the gal fund, it is safe and its hidden from possible attackers

and?

cbk

cbk100 · 25 Apr 2004, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by xontas

look mate its simple:

even if it wasnt in the manual, you all knew about the limit !
_______________________________________________________________
Quote:

Fri Apr 16 08:48:00 2004
Edit Delete Your galaxy-fund has enough resources. Operation cancelled.

Now I see that there is a limit.... 25 mill res... but I also see that its posible to break it. This means that we can most likely have as many res there as we want (hehe yeah I think I have found another way around the rules ).

____________________________________________________________________

so if you where aware that there was a limit, any way for you to get past that using a trick is a bug in the system.
and using a bug in the system to get a advantage is cheating (you saying you found a other way around the rules proofs you knew that)

you cheating should get you closed but they desided to let you stay and take away the resources (you even kept the 25mil each)

so to go short, you guys took a risk and lost
you got punished (lightly)
and now you can 1) play on 2) leave

both options are fine with me

As stated earlier you have to break a rule to be punished. I have broken no rules and therefore can't be punished.

cbk

Leshy · 25 Apr 2004, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk100

there is no crime done unless I have broken a rule and I haven't so end of that discussion...

As stated earlier in this thread, you broke the EULA by abusing a bug.

The fact that you had to jump through hoops in order to get above the 25mil mark in your galaxy fund, were unable to normally donate more than 25mil, and that this was not the first round with a limited galaxy fund, all prove with no room for reasonable doubt whatsoever, that you were knowingly using something that you could reasonably expect game designers did not intend for you to use.

Hiding behind the fact that the game allowed you to do something that was not expressly forbidden, but that you were restricted from doing in normal operation of the game, is not a defense. Don't kid yourself, and don't try to fool others.

Quote:

actualy there are other posts on this forum from weeks ago with ppl who managed to beat the limit...

Can you provide links to these posts?

JonnyBGood · 25 Apr 2004, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

no, looking at the world's society, lying is far worse then cheating in an online text based game ...

I'm pretty sure karm said he was mistaken, a slight difference from lying.

xontas · 25 Apr 2004, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk100

As stated earlier you have to break a rule to be punished. I have broken no rules and therefore can't be punished.

cbk

you broke the report bug rule

you have to report a bug, and you knew it was a bug as you can read in your quote

btw, this desison is final so maby its bedtime!!! :-D

King Cress · 25 Apr 2004, 23:30

cbk comment on my post!!!

I wanna see how u get out of that one

Appocomaster · 25 Apr 2004, 23:34

(from section 18 of the agreement @ http://jpaweb01.planetarion.com/signup.pl )
"In Game cheating
Any action in game intended to let one account gain score at
the direct cost of another with the main intend being the score
gain for the one account. Any such action will be regarded as a
breach of this agreement, and is punishable by various
punitive measures(2). "
Doesn't donating all resources into one account and then back again to take advantage of the "bug" break these rules anyway? Doesn't that mean every account involved in donating should therefore be deleted for donating their resources (which have score) back and forth to expressly give one particular account more score should be deleted for breaking the agreement you made when signing up for the game?
I think your lucky that your whole galaxy isn't closed, cbk.

cbk100 · 25 Apr 2004, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Cress

cbk comment on my post!!!

I wanna see how u get out of that one

I see no point in comenting on it as you can just read up in the post.

cbk

King Cress · 25 Apr 2004, 23:35

yep

cbk, ur gonna need some serious proof to get outta this one

King Cress · 25 Apr 2004, 23:37

[FACT] Your gal forums prove that some/all of your gal members knew that it was a bug

[FACT] Abusing (Using a bug to your own advantage, or to some-elses disadvantage is called Bug abuse

[FACT] As said in my previous post : Bug Abuse = Cheating

[FACT] Some/All of your gal have cheated

-----

cbk , u may as well admit defend, everyone is saying the same thing here

also I wanna go to bed with a clear consciuos or however u spell it.....

xontas · 25 Apr 2004, 23:38

cbk, just ignoring people that say things that you cant disproof is not the way to win a agrument

i suggest you go to bed, read this post in the morning and ask phil to delete it (to save some face)

nn mate

cbk100 · 25 Apr 2004, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appocomaster

(from section 18 of the agreement @ http://jpaweb01.planetarion.com/signup.pl )
"In Game cheating
Any action in game intended to let one account gain score at
the direct cost of another with the main intend being the score
gain for the one account. Any such action will be regarded as a
breach of this agreement, and is punishable by various
punitive measures(2). "
Doesn't donating all resources into one account and then back again to take advantage of the "bug" break these rules anyway? Doesn't that mean every account involved in donating should therefore be deleted for donating their resources (which have score) back and forth to expressly give one particular account more score should be deleted for breaking the agreement you made when signing up for the game?
I think your lucky that your whole galaxy isn't closed, cbk.

To donate res gives you less score so absolutely not...

And yes I do agree... if I have broken the rules then I should be closed... but the simple fact is that I haven't broken them which is also the judgement PA HQ/Jolt has come up with as they have stated earlier.

cbk

King Cress · 25 Apr 2004, 23:41

how many times do I have to say.......

Yea i cant do quote, but oh well

----

And yes I do agree... if I have broken the rules then I should be closed... but the simple fact is that I haven't broken them which is also the judgement PA HQ/Jolt has come up with as they have stated earlier.

said by cbk100 just a sec ago

----

U have broken the rules

The EULA cleary states that bug abuse = cheating

cheating = bad + closure

And dont say u werent abusing a bug, or Ill post my post again again

Leshy · 25 Apr 2004, 23:42

@cbk:

It's good to see you are at least consisent in ignoring the fact that you broke the EULA by abusing a bug rather than reporting it, and that you should be happy PA Team chooses to honour the EULA that you broke, rather than deleting your planet.

cbk100 · 25 Apr 2004, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Cress

[FACT] Your gal forums prove that some/all of your gal members knew that it was a bug

[FACT] Abusing (Using a bug to your own advantage, or to some-elses disadvantage is called Bug abuse

[FACT] As said in my previous post : Bug Abuse = Cheating

[FACT] Some/All of your gal have cheated

-----

cbk , u may as well admit defend, everyone is saying the same thing here

also I wanna go to bed with a clear consciuos or however u spell it.....

BAHHH I really cba to answer something I have answered earlier in this post just because you cba to read all of the post.

Everyone had equal rules in the game and I didn't break any rules... The so called "bug" was not there at all since all I did was to do EXACLY as it is said DIRECTLY that I have to do in the manual to donate res (read up (ONCE again)) and everyone else could do EXACLY the same and as stated earlier (once again) someone even pointed it out on forums long ago...

Was it to our advantage to donate to the fund... that is my judgement... but it can be duscussed but since there was not even a bug then this doesn't even have to be discussed...

No broken rules = no cheating

cbk

cbk100 · 25 Apr 2004, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by xontas

cbk, just ignoring people that say things that you cant disproof is not the way to win a agrument

i suggest you go to bed, read this post in the morning and ask phil to delete it (to save some face)

nn mate

I don't think I was the one backing up a person who obviously backed up a person who was obviously lieing... if anyone lost face it was you and Karmulian.

cbk

King Cress · 25 Apr 2004, 23:49

It wasnt even a bug?

Let me state what is again:

programming> An unwanted and unintended property of a program
or piece of hardware, especially one that causes it to
malfunction. Antonym of feature. E.g. "There's a bug in
the editor: it writes things out backward." The
identification and removal of bugs in a program is called
"debugging".

(This is a definiation from http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bug , not been doctored )

--

"An unwanted and unintended property of a programor piece of hardware"

Unless the PA team wanted you to be able to have more than 25 mil in the gal fund, then it is a bug.

That is a fact, and whatever your situation is, that is true.

--

PA did not want you to be able to do this, and so it is a bug

U cannot say that this is not a bug, go and ask Karm or Spinner or something.

I really do think you should leave it now, do what Xontas said and go to bed

SYMM · 25 Apr 2004, 23:49

It's up to the admins, and not you or any other player, to decide what are unwanted features (i.e. bugs), and in their judgement, what you have done constitutes bug-abuse. Nothing else matters. Live with it.

Leshy · 25 Apr 2004, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk100

No broken rules = no cheating

Are you selectively blind, by any chance?

xontas · 25 Apr 2004, 23:51

when did i lie then?

you where the one that cheated.....rememeber.

i never told you it was or wasnt in the menual, as the manual isnt tha game rules

the rules are in the box you with rules you agree 2 when you sign up

those rules you have broken

so dont call me a liar mate

King Cress · 25 Apr 2004, 23:52

hear hear

rules = EULA

cbk100 · 25 Apr 2004, 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by SYMM

It's up to the admins, and not you or any other player, to decide what are unwanted features (i.e. bugs), and in their judgement, what you have done constitutes bug-abuse. Nothing else matters. Live with it.

Well actualy not much more can be said about it than what have been said allready... HQ/JOLT has judgted that I didn't bug abuse (since I haven't been closed yet and as stated earlier in this post) but they still take the res and tbh I have nothing more to do to stop it than what I have allready done... if they give us the res back we get the res back and if they don't then they don't...
But I wonder if it would have been a bit more right to give ppl (not just my gal but also the other gals who also broke the limit) a warning and give them like 2 days to devide the res out (ofc not just to some single planets to boost them like hell).

Nomatter what from now on I will stay in the same faith as Grim and many other who has left this game allready that PA HQ is a bunch of incompatible persons who should be changed on the spot (beside spinner I would say on a personal issue)

cbk

cbk100 · 25 Apr 2004, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by xontas

when did i lie then?

you where the one that cheated.....rememeber.

i never told you it was or wasnt in the menual, as the manual isnt tha game rules

the rules are in the box you with rules you agree 2 when you sign up

those rules you have broken

so dont call me a liar mate

Read what I wrote and don't put words into my mouth that I have never said... for eksampel when did I call you a lier?? yeah ofc never

All I stated was that you backed up the person who lied (karmulian) and if you don't trust me then read the log.

And btw. I still broke no rules...

cbk

Leshy · 26 Apr 2004, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk100

HQ/JOLT has judgted that I didn't bug abuse (since I haven't been closed yet and as stated earlier in this post)

No, they've decided that taking away the resources was punishment enough. You broke the EULA, so they have no further obligation to you whatsoever when it comes to providing you with a game account. The fact that you still have it does not mean that you are innocent, it means that you should be grateful that you're allowed to play on, instead of whining on the boards.

As for your opinions on PA Team - I'm still waiting for a playerbase that doesn't cheat, farm, or abuses bugs to gain the #1 spot at whatever cost. It looks like we're both not getting what we want.

xontas · 26 Apr 2004, 00:03

simple question

EULA = RULES

am i right cbk

cbk100 · 26 Apr 2004, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leshy

No, they've decided that taking away the resources was punishment enough. You broke the EULA, so they have no further obligation to you whatsoever when it comes to providing you with a game account. The fact that you still have it does not mean that you are innocent, it means that you should be grateful that you're allowed to play on, instead of whining on the boards.

As for your opinions on PA Team - I'm still waiting for a playerbase that doesn't cheat, farm, or abuses bugs to gain the #1 spot at whatever cost. It looks like we're both not getting what we want.

When the rules are so clear as you claim they are why haven't they then not just closed me? You simply claim that I have broken the rules and if it is so then I should be deleted... that can't be discussed.

If PA HQ think they made a mistake in the code then its their problem and since I was by far the only one who saw the posibilites the coding opened for me and the rest of the universe it has to be judged as a part of the game that was there to be used if you saw it profitable to save up and to not be used if I/other didn't find it profitable to save up or maybe buy ships. That PA HQ made a mistake and even failed to correct it even after it was posted on the forums can never be my problem as I never saw it as a mistake but just an opportunity that I could use just as well as anyone else.

cbk

Stifler · 26 Apr 2004, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk100

To donate res gives you less score so absolutely not...

cbk

and u have all ready said you did it to hide ur true size! i.e make yourself appear smaller, which i could guess is so u could hit more targets, since ur block outblocked us and as such are bigger (pls lots not get into this blocking agrument here

)

N.B. If some1 already posted this sorry

Stifler · 26 Apr 2004, 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk100

If PA HQ think they made a mistake in the code then its their problem and since I was by far the only one who saw the posibilites the coding opened for me and the rest of the universe it has to be judged as a part of the game that was there to be used if you saw it profitable to save up and to not be used if I/other didn't find it profitable to save up or maybe buy ships. That PA HQ made a mistake and even failed to correct it even after it was posted on the forums can never be my problem as I never saw it as a mistake but just an opportunity that I could use just as well as anyone else.

cbk

Just because a bug (i.e error in the code that allows something unexpected to happen) exists, doesn't mean its ok to use it!!!!!

Everyone is asked that they report bugs when they find them, not abuse them for personal (or in this case, galactic) gain. One of the reasons players leave is people like u that abuse bugs and not report them

Jackal2112 · 26 Apr 2004, 00:19

cheaters shouldnt come on here and cry about technicalities. just close them all.

funny to see all the Ely people act shocked, quite some of them abused the recall bug last round.

Blazde · 26 Apr 2004, 00:24

The joke is on me

I read nearly half of cbk's post before realising he didn't have a leg to stand on.

Did anyone read it all?

Stifler · 26 Apr 2004, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackal2112

funny to see all the Ely people act shocked, quite some of them abused the recall bug last round.

1 person used it and he got closed (and he didnt make a big post about it)

now go crawl back in your hole

xtothez · 26 Apr 2004, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackal2112

funny to see all the Ely people act shocked, quite some of them abused the recall bug last round.

To my knowledge that bug was used by Walken who was closed and kicked from Ely. It certainly wasn't an Ely conspiracy as some would have you believe. The vast majority of our members weren't aware of the bugs existance, barring whichever people Walken may have told.
What was your point again?

cbk100 · 26 Apr 2004, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by xontas

you want PA-crew to foolow the rule as stated cbk

i can send phil or karmy a e-mail with your request
could be sorted in a hour
we just let you stay in the game because it would be a harsh punishment

let me know

(and you dont need to make it a large post mate, i just read the highlights ;-))

harish punishment to follow the rules??? no not at all... if I have cheated then the rules says that I should be deleted...

However if you want to delete me then just go ahead as I simply cba. My account will most likely just idle from now on or maybe launch an attack on +5 hour prelaunch when I cba. Nomatter what PA is dieing more and more. But nomatter what I see no reason to delete the rest of my gal as it was me who came up with the strategy and as it was me who tried to convince the other that it was a good idea.

cbk

cbk100 · 26 Apr 2004, 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stifler

Just because a bug (i.e error in the code that allows something unexpected to happen) exists, doesn't mean its ok to use it!!!!!

Everyone is asked that they report bugs when they find them, not abuse them for personal (or in this case, galactic) gain. One of the reasons players leave is people like u that abuse bugs and not report them

A strategical option is not a bug.

cbk

cbk100 · 26 Apr 2004, 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazde

The joke is on me

I read nearly half of cbk's post before realising he didn't have a leg to stand on.

Did anyone read it all?

Ahhh so I guess it was just for fun that Karmulian made an official apologie to me...

cbk

Leshy · 26 Apr 2004, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk100

Nomatter what PA is dieing more and more.

Ever figured that people who have to win at all costs, abuse bugs, cheat, farm, send abusive mails, bash newbies, etc, play a helping hand in that regard?

It's fairly easy putting the blame somewhere else.

Stifler · 26 Apr 2004, 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk100

A strategical option is not a bug.

cbk

u admitted that you knew you could not donate over 25mil (i.e you were not intended to beable to) but you still went and did it in a roundabout way, i.e. you expiloited a bug

So what ur saying it was a "strategical option" of Walken to use the instant recalls last round, and he never abused any bug

xontas · 26 Apr 2004, 00:41

karm was sorry for the misinform on the manual

but you are still cheating
and i am still wondering if i should ask someone to close you (as you asked for above)
let me know mate

cbk100 · 26 Apr 2004, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leshy

Ever figured that people who have to win at all costs, abuse bugs, cheat, farm, send abusive mails, bash newbies, etc, play a helping hand in that regard?

It's fairly easy putting the blame somewhere else.

I have abused no bugs, not cheated, not farmed, not sent abusive mails, not bashed newbies, not ect whatever that might include.... what is your point?

cbk

cbk100 · 26 Apr 2004, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by xontas

karm was sorry for the misinform on the manual

but you are still cheating
and i am still wondering if i should ask someone to close you (as you asked for above)
let me know mate

Let you know what?

You are free to do whatever you want and if I cheated then close me... how hard can that be?

Maybe too hard since HQ knows that I actualy didn't break any rules and that its therefore kinda hard to close an account which has been paid for?

cbk

cbk100 · 26 Apr 2004, 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by xontas

accourding the EULA you did abuse the bug rule
you just stated that when you did that (and you clearly did) you should be deleted

are you sure about that

btw this is a yes or no question, a 40 line post to get us to forget my question will not work)

And once again I will write what I have written quite some time. If I have broken the rules then I should be deleted...

cbk

Leshy · 26 Apr 2004, 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk100

I have abused no bugs, not cheated

Wrong on both counts.

You must have the skull of a pachycephalosaur, because you are quite thick.

cbk100 · 26 Apr 2004, 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leshy

Wrong on both counts.

You must have the skull of a pachycephalosaur, because you are quite thick.

I think my account is still open... so no its not wrong...

cbk

Stifler · 26 Apr 2004, 00:50

you have not replied to my "strategical option" reply, you have no comment?

Leshy · 26 Apr 2004, 00:50

I think your galaxy fund resources were removed... so yes its wrong...

leshy

Dante Hicks · 26 Apr 2004, 01:03

Why is it people that defend themselves to accusations of cheating always come across as really badly?

cbk's line of argument has been diabolical. Leshy's right : For the love of God don't become a lawyer.