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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 00:45   #151
Knight Theamion
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

nothing wrong with the ref tbh, it wasn't a goal.

and the only time england was dangerous was in the 3rd minute basically and you go lucky, after that portugoal was all over you, although they didn't finish it either.

The David Beckham got the Clarence Seedorf award 2004 for real, unless Clarence will collect it himself next match.

And then Ricardo stops it, with his bare hands and shoots it himself in the goal, 'you were owned'
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 00:46   #152
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
Can I just add, half of you lot are pricks whose opinions arent worth two shits in anybodys book.

That includes half you england fans.
Does that include you?

Or are your opinions much more worthier than ours?
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 00:46   #153
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

ricardo <3
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 01:00   #154
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
nothing wrong with the ref tbh, it wasn't a goal.

and the only time england was dangerous was in the 3rd minute basically and you go lucky, after that portugoal was all over you, although they didn't finish it either.

The David Beckham got the Clarence Seedorf award 2004 for real, unless Clarence will collect it himself next match.

And then Ricardo stops it, with his bare hands and shoots it himself in the goal, 'you were owned'

what made it not a goal?
the nearest 'official' who could see clearly was the linesman who said it was a goal. The Ref from 2 miles down the road and a blocked view said theyd pushed the keeper about. Which neither of them had....

we shouldve won 2-1.

nm
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 01:01   #155
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark-Strider
Sure Gerrard hasn't played his best but he's played a hella lot better than Beckham.
Beckham this tournament has seemed disinterested and not focused. His passing has been suspect and his free kicks havent been up to par. And to miss 2 Penalties is kinda sucky.

I suspect that all the personal revelations havent helped him, but Sven should stop picking people on Reputation alone.
Yeah but people have noticed that beckham is shit. Steven "world class player" Gerrard hasn't been criticised by anyone in the English media at all.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 01:13   #156
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Well, I'm entirely neutral, and I can tell to this forum full of retarded english pricks that this was a fair game, and portugal was the best team.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 01:16   #157
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
what made it not a goal?
the nearest 'official' who could see clearly was the linesman who said it was a goal. The Ref from 2 miles down the road and a blocked view said theyd pushed the keeper about. Which neither of them had....

we shouldve won 2-1.

nm
he was hindered in the goal area while he was going for the ball.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 01:18   #158
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
what made it not a goal?
the nearest 'official' who could see clearly was the linesman who said it was a goal. The Ref from 2 miles down the road and a blocked view said theyd pushed the keeper about. Which neither of them had....

we shouldve won 2-1.

nm
well the ref saw it and half the ****ing world saw it on the ****ing television so get over it
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 01:35   #159
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Beckham's Penalty

did the ball move when he put his left foot next to it so he didn't hit it properly with his right?

or is he the new clarence seedorf?


DISCUSS!!! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzing!
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 02:06   #160
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
he was hindered in the goal area while he was going for the ball.

no he wasnt
he couldnt reach it
he was jumping of his back foot
he wasnt pushed
he wasnt hindered.

watch the replay

It was a fair challenge to get the ball and not a single striker was looking at him instead of the ball.

it shouldve been a goal plain and simple.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 02:43   #161
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
no he wasnt
he couldnt reach it
he was jumping of his back foot
he wasnt pushed
he wasnt hindered.

watch the replay

It was a fair challenge to get the ball and not a single striker was looking at him instead of the ball.

it shouldve been a goal plain and simple.
bitter bitter!
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 03:48   #162
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Don't blame the ref., it was clearly a foul.

You shouldn't have played Catenaggio, that was your mistake.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 04:08   #163
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by at0mic.c0w
doesn't matter what his intentions were. touching the goalie is a foul

Touching the goalie is a foul? Quite simply, your wrong. Pushing the goalie, obstructing the goalie is a foul. Placing your little finger on him is not a foul. Football is not a non contact sport. Its a physical game and players are allowed to touch each other. Goalkeepers are (rightly) given some protection, but Ricardo was nowhere near getting the ball. Terry did nt move to block him, nor did his position stop Ricardo getting the ball because he would nt have got it anyway.

Look at it this way. Keeper comes through a crowd to get the ball. Do you expect players to give him a bloody parade route to the ball incase they touch him?

End of the day, I think England were unlucky to lose, not because they were the better side but becuase they had a harsh decision. There certainly not the first and wont be the last, but it does nt make it any better.

Some of you really need to differentiate between things like "Beckham was shit in Euro2004" and "Beckham is shit". Anyone who thinks David Beckham is not a great footballer needs to watch the England-Greece game again. Our problem is that as soon as a player puts in a great performance we expect them to do the same every game. Whats the betting the moment Rooney has a bad game for England people start talking about dropping him again? How quickly we forget the two players who pretty much got us to Portugal in the first place.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 04:10   #164
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Suffice it to say Terry didn't leave the goalkeeper any room to move, nor do I think he was actually going for the ball, as it was well behind him; even outside of the goalkeeper's area a body check is considered a foul.

As for the linesman - considering Terry was standing in between the goalkeeper and Campbell, he would have an equally hard time judging the situation.
Utter bollocks.

Like you, Deffeh obviously hates us - but at least he's rational.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 04:11   #165
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
bitter bitter!
Bitter maybe, but at least he knows his football, whereas you clearly don't.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 04:24   #166
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haer
Goalkeepers are (rightly) given some protection, but Ricardo was nowhere near getting the ball. Terry did nt move to block him, nor did his position stop Ricardo getting the ball because he would nt have got it anyway.

Look at it this way. Keeper comes through a crowd to get the ball. Do you expect players to give him a bloody parade route to the ball incase they touch him?
It doesn't matter if Ricardo would have reached the ball or not. What does matter is, however, that Terry had his Hand and Ellbow on the shoulder of Riccardo, distracting the latter from jumping up. Which can be judged as a foul, especially if it happens in the goalkeeper zone.

It's similar to standing in an attacker's way when he comes running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obliterate
What, is the linesman blind or something? The ref simply needed to consult with his linesman seeing as he was too far away to see it properly.
It's not up to you to decide what the ref. saw. The situation can be judged as a foul, though it's quite harsh. Portugal, on the other hand, had at least one situation that can be given a penalty.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 04:27   #167
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entium
It doesn't matter if Ricardo would have reached the ball or not. What does matter is, however, that Terry had his Hand and Ellbow on the shoulder of Riccardo, distracting the latter from jumping up. Which can be judged as a foul, especially if it happens in the goalkeeper zone.

It's similar to standing in an attacker's way when he comes running.
Im sorry, but its perfectly ok to stand in front of an attacker whose running towards you as long as you dont step into his path. Its perfectly possible for two players to come into contact without a foul being commited.

And distracting the keeper from jumping? We're really pushing the boat out now. Perhaps we should make sure the crowd keeps quiet too? Would nt want to unfairly burden the preciouls goalkeeper.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 04:40   #168
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haer
Im sorry, but its perfectly ok to stand in front of an attacker whose running towards you as long as you dont step into his path. Its perfectly possible for two players to come into contact without a foul being commited.
It's not ok though to detain him from reaching the ball without heading yourself to the ball.

Similar, it can be considered as foul if you prevent the keeper from reaching the ball, e.g. having your ellbow on his shoulder, which is counted as foul in every situation. In this context, it's even irrelevant if Terry tried to reach the ball himself, as he clearly had an advantage to Riccardo by using his Hand.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 07:17   #169
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

I hoped the English would win. Would have given a better chance to the Dutch.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 07:25   #170
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogster
Like you, Deffeh obviously hates us - but at least he's rational.
Incorrect assumption #1: I hate you.
Incorrect assumption #2: I'm irrational.

It's amusing to see how pretty much everyone but the English agrees that the referee made a correct decision. I wonder which group is likely to be the more objective one about the whole situation.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 07:51   #171
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Entium
It's not up to you to decide what the ref. saw. The situation can be judged as a foul, though it's quite harsh. Portugal, on the other hand, had at least one situation that can be given a penalty.
The thing is; if the goal had been allowed to stand - there would have been no questions at all raised about whether the goalie was fouled or not - nobody would have even considered it.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 07:54   #172
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

I'm pretty certain if the same thing had happened across the pitch, you'd all be shouting about how James was obstructed and the goal should have been disallowed, if it wasn't for that crappy ref who wasn't paying attention.

Seriously, I haven't seen the referee's decision seen called into question anywhere else than on this board.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 08:02   #173
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Say what you want about Beckham, he set up the Lampard header, the Lampard goal vs Croatia and the Campbell goal last night. It was also his corner that Lampard scored from last night.

Oh, I didn't realise poor goalkeeping was a free kick to the keeper nowadays.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 08:04   #174
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Seriously, I haven't seen the referee's decision seen called into question anywhere else than on this board.
This is a lie people.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 08:09   #175
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
This is a lie people.
Kindly point me to a non-English source that says the referee ****ed up.

P.S. It's cool to see how people not only know what the referee saw, it's cool to see how they even know what I've seen
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 08:18   #176
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Seriously, I haven't seen the referee's decision seen called into question anywhere else than on this board.
Admittedly I only read/watch english news sources, but during the match, after the match, every single one said there was nothing wrong with the goal. For most of these, that doesn't mean much because they would have allowed the goal if Terry had punched the goalkeeper and buried him beneath the six yard box with a small breathing tube. The BBC, on the other hand, tends to be more balanced.

Anyway, opinions of the match:

Without Beckham (especially) on form, the 'long direct passes to swift forwards' doesn't work and has no hope of working, as has been seen THROUGHOUT this tournament.

When we took Rooney off, we should have replaced him with Joe Cole; he's the only other English player who's skillfull enough to take the ball from the midfield and keep it, giving us a chance to get forward; even if he does lose it half the time, that's better than Vassell and Owen up front, firing long balls that they won't be able to get to.

Sven. He's picking on reputation, otherwise there's no way you can explain Beckham and Terry's appearances after they were showed to be off the pace (I've seen Terry play exceptionally well for Chelsea, in just about every match I've seen; but he was a yard off the pace and a yard off the thinking in this tournament; does this mean he's not ready for international football, or did the injury combine with some unknown factor to screw our chances?). Beckham, like Figo, is a bad captain to have to be defending with. Ignoring his other form problems, leading by example is tough when the most time you have on the ball is to punt another hopeful ball upfield to your strikers. It would have been much better to play any of (Cole, Hargreaves, Parker) in the midfield; hell, if we had Joe Cole on the field, Rooney may be able to play higher up the field.

Rooney's injury; stop trolling sunday, that is in no way a 'fight won'. That aside, the best football we play is when he's on the field, and it's no coincidence; yes we were unlucky to lose him after twenty minutes, but our tactics shouldn't have been so limited to rely on one person to such a great degree, especially one so young (even if he has been one of the more mature members of the England camp). Great things are expected of this lad in Germany 2006, and beyond.

The referee: a really really bad display. Whenever an english player was booked, within the next 5 minutes guaranteed there was an identical foul from a local player, for which they weren't booked. Some of the decisions were also mind numbingly bad; ignore the goal, look at two decisions that even a first division ref could handle (and I should know; I've seen some diabolical decisions in the last year).

Decision 1. Vassel, last 10 minutes (or thereabouts.) Vassel heads the ball, Portuguese player is backing into him, doesn't try to go for the ball (so there can be no complaints about obstruction) Portugal get free kick.

Decision 2. Owen Hargreaves, last few minutes again. He's on a superb run, beats one, but is caught and starts to lose his balance, beats two, is tripped again but manages to struggle forward for another 5 yards or so before falling over. How in the world that is not a free kick and a yellow card I don't know.

Conclusion: Portugal were lucky, the ref was poor, England should have been better. Ranieri for England; even if you bring random players on, you'll get the right swap some of the time.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 08:20   #177
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Alan Hansen

Well, I just don't believe that it could have possibly been not talked about, when it was blatantly not a foul.



Also, I think Vassell played really well, so it wasn't that bad a substitution.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 08:24   #178
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Kindly point me to a non-English source that says the referee ****ed up.
Skimming through the thread on SA, there seems to be united opinion, and at most only 1/2 the people are English (or British).

Re: News sources, it's hideously difficult to do, because the only international news sources I can find with the result are entirely devoid of opinion. The 'Sol Campbell scored a "goal" which the referee disallowed' kind of reporting.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 08:31   #179
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LHC
Also, I think Vassell played really well, so it wasn't that bad a substitution.
It was a hideously bad substitiution, not because Vassell played well or otherwise, but because it forced us into playing the kind of game that simply doesn't work; Sven is trying to play an Italian game, sitting back, soaking up pressure, combined with a swift counter attack. But for that, you need Gerrard and Beckham to be on form, because if the pass isn't perfect, it doesn't work. Vassell may have played well (and has done when he's come on), but a combination of the change of strategy and referee completely neutered our attack.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 08:34   #180
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

OIh, and I forgot one: The TV feed.

Whenever they shot to the crowd, why did they have to pick the ugliest women in the stadium?
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 08:34   #181
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Reading two dutch forums, the very few posts that actually mention it, seem to be of the opinion that the goal was rightfully disallowed due to the goalkeeper being hindered. All dutch news sources I can find discuss it in the same neutral manner.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 08:48   #182
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
The referee: a really really bad display.
http://www.ursmeier.ch/referee/ref60.html

Why not leave him some feedback? :)
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 08:58   #183
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshy
Reading two dutch forums, the very few posts that actually mention it, seem to be of the opinion that the goal was rightfully disallowed due to the goalkeeper being hindered. All dutch news sources I can find discuss it in the same neutral manner.
Part of the problem is there really is no valid neutral party in this; portugal will say its illegal, england will say its legal, and noone else really cares. It's taking disinterest to a whole new level.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 09:11   #184
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Ok, now I'm a bit more sober, and calmed down a lot, I'll give my opinion on the nights events.

Worst thing we could have done was score, I knew pretty much from that moment on we were ****ed. I dont know whether it is Sven's tactics, or just a lack of bottle in the team, but as soon as we get the lead, we're straight onto the defensive.

We played badly, very badly. Nobody was taking control of the game for us, there was no posession, no creativeness, no spark, we were shit. Portugual looked very good, but a great deal of that was simply us making them look good by being so god damned awful.

The Portugese were diving around all over the shop. The referee was a bit of a twat, lets be honest. Some of the fouls he was giving against us had me completely mistified, and still do. Generally, I thought if you slid in and took the ball...its not a fail, somebody teach that Swiss prat this.

The tactic decisions of Sven leave me completely dumbfounded. Phil Neville on for Scholes, Hargreaves on for Gerrard... why? And, as usual, as soon as he starts tinkering with stuff, they got a goal. A deserved goal mind.

Now, the one point I'm going to stick up for England on, is the disallowed goal. I thought it was a goal, a good goal. From what I saw (and I havent seen a replay yet now I'm totally sober) but it seemed the keeper didnt make much of an effort to get to the rebound, I thought it should have stood, but it didnt, oh well move on.

To be honest, from the way we played, we didnt deserve a result. It pains me to say it, I'm as patriotic as almost anybody you meet, but I cant stick up for my country when we play like a bunch of twats.

Well done Portugual, and goodluck in the next round.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 09:19   #185
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

I was hoping England'd go through, I was pissed when I saw the ref disallow the goal. When I watched the replay a couple of times, I was perfectly ok with it. As for the game, I ****ing hate Sven for playing such a shite tactic in the second half, it doesn't ****ing pay off, it didn't against France and you lot cocked up against Portugal the exact same way. **** Sven's tactics.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 09:20   #186
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rids
Worst thing we could have done was score, I knew pretty much from that moment on we were ****ed. I dont know whether it is Sven's tactics, or just a lack of bottle in the team, but as soon as we get the lead, we're straight onto the defensive.
Agreed.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 09:26   #187
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

i dont see how the various people on this forum can call that a foul to be quite honest when the linesman didnt call it and the ref wasnt in a position to see it should never have been disallowed
from the two hundred million replays last night i didnt see the keeper get fouled from any angle
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 09:29   #188
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

oh and now that england are out my money is on france to win it
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 09:30   #189
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

He was climbed on for godsake.

Anyway just wanted to post my reaction to the match last night.

AHAHAHAhahahahaaaahahhahahahaHAhahaHAhaahhahahahHAhahahaHAahaa!
\o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 10:05   #190
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Some thoughts on the game:

If only Rooney hadn't been injured
If only the referee didn't think he was wearing a Portugese shirt
If only Beckham realised that when you take a penalty the ball is supposed to go IN the goal.

But you know what the worst travesty of last night was? The fact that the English team chose to do bugger all for 50 minutes of the game because they thought they could hold on to a one goal lead. After all it didn't work against France last week, it didn't work against Brazil in 2002 and it didn't work against Sweden in 2002 either so it's got to work this time doesn't it? Guess not.
England were the best attacking side in the tournament (who scored the most goals in the group stage? England). All their midfielders are attacking midfielders so what are they doing sitting in their own half for most of the game? England have proved time and time again that they can attack and when they do they get results. They showed it against Croatia, they showed it in injury time last night and they showed it towards the end of the second half of extra time last night as well. So why the hell didn't they show it for the 90 minutes that actually mattered?
England have the skill to win this tournament, a lot more so than the Portugese and they just blew it. Somebody's mentality needs to change, whether it's Sven's or all the players I just don't know.

Feels better getting that off my chest I'm sure I'll be saying it in two years time as well.

Big props to Owen, who showed us that he's still the world class striker we all know he can be. Big props too to Cole, Campbell and Lampard who had a great game.
As for Gerrard and Beckham, you suck, sort it out!
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 10:22   #191
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...gal/index.html

look where terry has got his left arm.

nuff said
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 10:28   #192
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Pffft, the only team that got robbed is Italy!

Who cares about England anyway. They don't have the players to backup their tactics. And well, if you miss the english football.... Don't worry, premiership is starting soon again! (about 7 weeks)



And HAHA @ Beckham for messing up his own penalty. Slippery, ain't it Becks? heh
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 10:32   #193
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

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Originally Posted by at0mic.c0w
look where terry has got his left arm.
It looks terrible in freeze frame, I'll admit. But watch the video.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 10:37   #194
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

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Originally Posted by Scorpio
Pffft, the only team that got robbed is Italy!
Italy got what they deserved.

As did England I guess :/
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 10:39   #195
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Hehe "What If's"

What if Portugal decided to put on an aging Eusebio to pinch a goal or two?
What if aliens gentically engineered a potent Rooney-Repellant?
What if I'm in the shower and I slip on a bar of soap? OH MY GOD, I'D BE KILLED!
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 10:43   #196
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
Hehe "What If's"
For all sad words of tongue or pen,
The saddest are these: "It might have been."
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 10:58   #197
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

If "if"'s and "but"'s were candy and nuts....I forget how the rest of that goes.
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 11:13   #198
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
If "if"'s and "but"'s were candy and nuts....I forget how the rest of that goes.
Nuts and gum: TOGETHER AT LAST
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 11:21   #199
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

This has spring snakes inside but the suckers will think its Beer Nuts....mmmm Beer Nuts....*opens*
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Unread 25 Jun 2004, 11:24   #200
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Re: THE England Vs. Portugal THREAD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IncubusGod
This has spring snakes inside but the suckers will think its Beer Nuts....mmmm Beer Nuts....*opens*
If memory serves, that's the only episode of the Simpsons without Groening's name on it; he hated the crossover concept, and refused to be a part of it.

It's also a really good episode, so what does that tell us, children?





Absolutely nothing.
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