Planetarion Forums

bernhard · 6 Mar 2003, 09:58

when does the shuffle take place? if it is before tickstart, then it's useless cause private galaxies will rearrange after shuffle and alliances will exploit this to get into the same cluster.

Chax · 6 Mar 2003, 10:32

Might be that joining a galaxy option disappears at shuffle, thus not making it useless if shuffle is before ticks.

hAl · 6 Mar 2003, 10:35

Shuffle was at t36 last round so why not this round.
A t72 shuffle would be great fun though.

hAl

bernhard · 6 Mar 2003, 10:36

they stated move to galaxy is enabled until end of protection.

bernhard · 6 Mar 2003, 10:54

this is from the current status thread in announcements:

>
If you JOIN one, you will join a random galaxy by default. Not to worry, you can MOVE into any private galaxy you have the Galaxy-password for, from inside the Preferences screen. You can do this right until Tickstart, which we assume will be two weeks after signup opens.
>

and this is from my preferences screen

>
Movement
Move to galaxy with as password
You can move as many times as you like during your protection time, provided you have the password of the target galaxy.
>

so what is right?

zenopus · 6 Mar 2003, 11:03

I would guess the text on the preferences page is wrong.

xtothez · 6 Mar 2003, 11:43

Although during beta the move planet option was enabled during the first 72 ticks of a planets protection (we moved a new signup into our gal quite a while after we were out of protection), I seem to remember in r7 Spinner saying that all planet moving would be disabled between the tick 36 shuffle and tick 72, then enabled again for new signups. Obvious reason being there's unlikely to be any new signups after tickstart.

Prince · 6 Mar 2003, 13:57

Quote:

Originally posted by xtothez
Although during beta the move planet option was enabled during the first 72 ticks of a planets protection (we moved a new signup into our gal quite a while after we were out of protection), I seem to remember in r7 Spinner saying that all planet moving would be disabled between the tick 36 shuffle and tick 72, then enabled again for new signups. Obvious reason being there's unlikely to be any new signups after tickstart.

Thats most likley how it will be this round, I'll confirm the exact details with Spinner and get a announcment post for you all

hAl · 6 Mar 2003, 14:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
Thats most likley how it will be this round, I'll confirm the exact details with Spinner and get a announcment post for you all

Mayby it would be nice to do the shuffle at tick 30 this time around. This would probably a time that would suit the PA community a lot more than t36. In fact I think even creators might appreciate this time more to execute the shuffle !!!

hAl

Prince · 6 Mar 2003, 14:16

Quote:

Originally posted by hAl
Mayby it would be nice to do the shuffle at tick 30 this time around. This would probably a time that would suit the PA community a lot more than t36. In fact I think even creators might appreciate this time more to execute the shuffle !!!

hAl

I assume it was 36 as its exactly half way to the end of protection, but I don't see what problem changing the time by 6 hours would do, it would give the new galaxy of randoms a extra 6 hours to know each other.

hAl · 6 Mar 2003, 14:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
I assume it was 36 as its exactly half way to the end of protection, but I don't see what problem changing the time by 6 hours would do, it would give the new galaxy of randoms a extra 6 hours to know each other.

0:00 GMT is a very difficult time for the PA community to form cluster and parallel relations. PA community is most active between 17:00 GMT and 23:00 GMT.

Also Spinner might well prefer to execute shuffle at t30 in stead of very late at night.

Also t30 is genrally a quiet tick when almost no people need to login for doing research/cons.

hAl

Prince · 6 Mar 2003, 14:58

The Shuffle (I'll post this on announcments once i can escape AD and PD) will be Tick 48 which will be 12:00 Mid day

zenopus · 6 Mar 2003, 15:06

Please include information about when the temporary features are disabled

Change name
Move to galaxy

If people can move galaxy after tick start, private galaxies are likely to distribute themselves over several galaxies so they can all get gc/minister bonuses, then all move into one galaxy just before the move feature is disabled.

Prince · 6 Mar 2003, 15:13

The Shuffle will be on tick 48
which is 12:00 GMT Wednesday the 12th

Name Change will be removed 18:00 Server time (GMT) on Friday the 7th
(Same time as the race change is removed, and res/con are enabled)

Move is stated in the option for it in prefrences
"first 72 ticks"

zenopus · 6 Mar 2003, 15:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
The Shuffle will be on tick 48
...
Move is stated in the option for it in preferences
"first 72 ticks"

Oh goodie.
A good number of random galaxies might see their GC and/or one or more ministers disappear at tick 71.
Because those going private who managed to get elected or appointed are not going to bother setting up a temporary galaxy for them to sit in from tick 0 to 71.
Unless ofc they wish to keep their options open concerning which cluster they end up in - in which case we could potentially expect to see five two-man galaxies per final private galaxy, four of these galaxies being evacuated between ticks 71 and 72.

Prince · 6 Mar 2003, 16:04

*fluffles Zenopus* deja vou replying to this heh

There are 2 options

Solution, Shuffle tick 72
that would ruin any extra time randoms have to get organised before protection ends

Solution Don't Allow Moving in Protection
a Intresting idea, I supose the main problem is due to a new player signup mid-round, hence not being able to join a private gal

End it earlier is the easier solution, its something we'll discuss

zenopus · 6 Mar 2003, 16:09

One possible solution - disable gc/minister bonus during protection and only allow people under protection to move galaxy.

Prince · 6 Mar 2003, 16:14

The GC Minster Bonus would work yes

Moving in protection is what we have atm

zenopus · 6 Mar 2003, 16:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
Moving in protection is what we have atm

Ok, so it is based on your planets 'age' rather than on the tick. Good to know.

Prince · 6 Mar 2003, 16:25

Sorry i would of siad that before but I thought it was known

if it was'nt based on ages and was on just the first 72 ticks

a new group of people would'nt be able to create a private gal after first 72 ticks, hence why we do it on Planet age not ticks

hAl · 6 Mar 2003, 16:59

The need for people to create private gals after tick 72 is extremly small.

Close the movement of planets on ticks start !!! The option of having 5 private gals with 5 GC's and 5 ministers merging to a single private gal is really poor.

hAl

Prince · 6 Mar 2003, 17:06

Jolt are giving away Accounts with there Premium forums etc
how assuming say a CS Clan of 10 (nice number) signup and get 10 free accounts in say 1 weeks time

if they all have to go random they might not play again
just a small example of why private is kept

bernhard · 6 Mar 2003, 18:34

how about a nasty alliance abusing this feature: create several small galaxies after 72 ticks, then merge into few large ones to control a distinct cluster or parallel. the 72 tick drawback is insignificant compared to the option to get into a certain cluster/parallel.

ArcChas · 6 Mar 2003, 18:34

Nevertheless, allowing people to move after the shuffle defeats the main purpose of shuffling in the first place. People who don't like their place will simply move around after the shuffle until they are happy.

Prince · 6 Mar 2003, 18:37

Quote:

Originally posted by ArcChas
Nevertheless, allowing people to move after the shuffle defeats the main purpose of shuffling in the first place. People who don't like their place will simply move around after the shuffle until they are happy.

if people wanted to move where they like they could just signup after the shuffle and have 72 hours to move around

you can't stop people exploiting every situation

bernhard · 6 Mar 2003, 20:31

the problem is the moving, not joining after shuffle.
In previous rounds, one had to enter the galaxy password in the signup page. Once a player was in a certain gal, be it private or not, he could not move except via exile.

Scouse · 6 Mar 2003, 20:46

Preferences is 'broke' atm btw.

Prince · 6 Mar 2003, 21:23

sorry I forgot this thread i posted it on announcments and the Sticky offical name thread

no eta
still waiting on fudgey to wake up

Prince · 6 Mar 2003, 22:58

backup for me now, should be ok,

dabult · 7 Mar 2003, 00:26

Quote:

Originally posted by bernhard
how about a nasty alliance abusing this feature: create several small galaxies after 72 ticks, merge into few large ones to control a distinct cluster or parallel.....etc....

No alliance in its right mind would want anybody to start 72 ticks after the rest of the uni.

Not many players either. :P

Prince · 7 Mar 2003, 00:56

first 72 are crucial most would say

zenopus · 7 Mar 2003, 02:31

Well, I guess the cat is out of the bag...
All the major alliances by now realise they can sign up a few dozen people for a private galaxy each and after the tick 48 shuffle they can check out where each of these galaxies are - plus the ones they already have, and then they have until tick 72 to move around to get control of a few selected clusters.

Prince · 7 Mar 2003, 15:19

Quote:

Originally posted by zenopus
Well, I guess the cat is out of the bag...
All the major alliances by now realise they can sign up a few dozen people for a private galaxy each and after the tick 48 shuffle they can check out where each of these galaxies are - plus the ones they already have, and then they have until tick 72 to move around to get control of a few selected clusters.

Most Alliances are probaly already signed up by now,

yes there always seems to be afew that like to wait till the last second

hAl · 7 Mar 2003, 15:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
Most Alliances are probaly already signed up by now,

yes there always seems to be afew that like to wait till the last second

In fact you only need a few player to stay outside if they have created their own private gals. Even if you have one person only not in your gal yet who has also signed up as galstarter you keep the option of moving your entire gal to the location of where the single players gal ends after the shuffle. so even one man still out can cause 9 others to move their gal.

People signing up late who have not payed might well chose to signup again and this time make sure they chose the option of creating a new galaxy.

hAl

Prince · 7 Mar 2003, 15:42

only need afew with this argument
in another thread they are arguing the same point but with the reason being people will stay out to get GC/Minister Bonues

both valid but with minister u need alot more than just afew as u can only get 4 bonues per gal

most people who have'nt paid lose out on race change as it goes in 3 hours 11 minutes

as i said before we can plug up holes left right and center and they'd still find a way to exploit some situation

hAl · 7 Mar 2003, 16:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
most people who have'nt paid lose out on race change as it goes in 3 hours 11 minutes

If you haven't payed you can pick any race you want. Just signup again.

hAl

The_Fish · 7 Mar 2003, 16:40

Prince - take minister bonus away for first 72 ticks, or stop the ability to move for those already signed up and moved, or just before tick 1, this way people wont exploit the extra 5%.

On the other issue, It seems stopping people from moving is the way to go. Bring it back after tick 72 for those signing up after protection ends, should there be any.

1 more thing, how many paid players we got now?

Prince · 7 Mar 2003, 16:41

about 3800

38 Full Clusters

Prince · 7 Mar 2003, 16:43

Quote:

Originally posted by hAl
If you haven't payed you can pick any race you want. Just signup again.

hAl

which means they lose there orginal name, as that also goes today,

which means there private gal theme if they have one would be 1 planet out and look very silly

hAl · 7 Mar 2003, 16:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
only need afew with this argument
in another thread they are arguing the same point but with the reason being people will stay out to get GC/Minister Bonues

both valid but with minister u need alot more than just afew as u can only get 4 bonues per gal

most people who have'nt paid lose out on race change as it goes in 3 hours 11 minutes

as i said before we can plug up holes left right and center and they'd still find a way to exploit some situation

Leaving people to move trough the universe is just a big nono.
Let me make a eccessive example:

In the most extreme situation an alliance can tell all their members to start planets and get as many ministers bonusses as they can get.

At tick 49 right after shuffle they sign up 20 planets all starting galaxies who will all be in the highest two or three clusters. They will then move massively to these gals in t72. All the alliance will be gathered in 3 clusters with 9 great planets per gal. They have one weak planet in each gal but at least they can drop the 20 worst scanning planets they had before and some donations will make these planets quickly grow back.

This may be a scenario that is not going to happen but this would ruin a round almost immediatly and certainly there is a big risk of at least peope trying simular moves now.

hAl

if you really want people creating private gals after t72 then make them create the gals first and fill the galaxy password on signup. This works well. Only disadvantage of the galcreator needing to signup and pay first is not that bad. CC payment is fast and seems like many might already have a credit even from jolt special offer. So on signup you get options:
*Create new private gal
*Join a private gal with galaxy password ________
*Play the round in a random gal
Seems much better then people letting move into gals after tick have started.

hAl · 7 Mar 2003, 17:12

Actually my example could off course be make better by after moving in the 9 good planets move out the poor starter planets again to vacant spaces elsewhere and still move in good planets to make ten top planets. Also it allows for the possiblilty to join your 10 best planets in one gal making it probably twice the size on any possible other gal to start with and already protected by a full cluster of allies.

hAl

Scouse · 7 Mar 2003, 17:19

Quote:

Originally posted by hAl
All the alliance will be gathered in 3 clusters with 9 great planets per gal.

That's not an advantage, and most alliances would not want that for their members.

Quote:

Originally posted by hAl
Actually my example could off course be make better by after moving in the 9 good planets move out the poor starter planets again to vacant spaces elsewhere and still move in good planets to make ten top planets

IIRC the person who created the galaxy can't move out of it.

Ants · 7 Mar 2003, 17:42

They can btw.

zenopus · 7 Mar 2003, 20:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse
That's not an advantage, and most alliances would not want that for their members.

With just a Cluster TT advantage, I would agree.
With both Cluster and Parallel TT advantages, I'm not sure.

Scouse · 7 Mar 2003, 21:44

Quote:

Originally posted by zenopus
With just a Cluster TT advantage, I would agree.
With both Cluster and Parallel TT advantages, I'm not sure.

Agreed. It makes it less of a bad thing if they were all grouped. I'd still prefer to have a few key clusters with my members equally spread about them.

zenopus · 9 Mar 2003, 12:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Prince
disabling The GC Minister Bonus would work

Well, with only 24 hours until tick start now, and no announcements on this, I guess this was just not a priority.

zenopus · 9 Mar 2003, 14:28

Does anyone remember the reason the shuffle was originally moved from somewhere before tick start to somewhere during protection?
I think it was due to rumours of some alliance planning to sign up a bunch of planets just after the shuffle - in order to get control of a high cluster (insurance against low-ETA incoming).

Well, if the move planet feature is still available after the shuffle is there still any reason whatsoever why the shuffle should not be before tick start? (Apart from the fact that it has already been announced for tick 48).

The_Fish · 9 Mar 2003, 16:01

the creators beggar belief sometimes. I used to think they got a lot of undeserved stick, but now I know why they got so much. Now people can gain cluster strongholds and the randoms are at a big disadvantage. what are you thinking? I honestly dont get it.