Cathaar Crusier Fleets: Universal Domination

[Ultimate Newbie]

We all laugh at the ETA of the Mantis pod, everyone is quick to point out that with the really high ETA defence is reletively easy to get. This is true, however if you send a fleet that will really hammer any defence, then people will think twice.

the newly improved Guardians, sent along with Tarantulas, would provide very effective cover from the FR/Co classes (though it doesnt do all that well against FI, heh) doing easily enough damage to make either the defending planet run in the first place, or make defenders think twice before launching.

If you had a fleet that was 50% Tarantula, 45% Guardian and 5% Mantis Pod, the damage you can deal (as a Cathaar) is enormous, plus you still have flak that also fires EMP - imo this combination would be very effective in R9. Especially since most anti CR units (with exception to the Corsair and Sentinel) are either CO or FR - ph00d for the Guardians.

Alliance defence can be earnt by destroying PDS for them with your Guardians, and in certain situations Tarantulas can be sent as defence against DE or even FR fleets.

I am wondering if any potential Cathaars out there had considered using said fleet - the only problem with it is that to beuild an effective fleet takes a long time, both in research and in production of numbers, and a conventional BW/Beetle fleet could suffice in the mean time.

[Shev]

I hope to be able to use the Cr fleet, but it's really going to have to wait to see how the universe pans out again.
If Xan Fi are around in large numbers i'll be sticking with the Beetles and Widows, but otherwise i'll probably make the effort to get the Bs cons quickly.
I've also debated scorpions, but im not altogether sure they are neccessary, given that - as you said - there ain't many Fi that target Cr/Bs.

[MAdnRisKy]

I would add scorps to that fleet, but don't expect to hit anywhere except in para with it :/

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by Ultimate Newbie

I am wondering if any potential Cathaars out there had considered using said fleet - the only problem with it is that to beuild an effective fleet takes a long time, both in research and in production of numbers, and a conventional BW/Beetle fleet could suffice in the mean time.

Considered it ? Yes i have.
Tested it ? Yes i have.
Using it ? No i wont.

Why ?

a. ETA is 5
b. Helping out friends will be hard
c. Takes a long time before you reach CR and BS, before then the war may already been won or lost.

I would like to add, i really thought the cr bs fleet was very effective during the Beta when i tested it, but in r9 it will most likely not work. The eta of the fleet is high enough to get enough defence vs this fleet, as you already mentioned, Corsair and Sentinals are the ships that will target your CR, and those ships will be around allot, and with such a eta....

Maybe if your alliance / block is losing the war, and you need a way to secure your roids, and prevent losing precious ships, you could go to CR and BS, but if i was you I'd go Beetle, Roach, Blackwidow, Astropod and Spiders as Crystal Sink.

If you do go CR and BS, add Spiders to it (And allot !!) to block your Xan opponents rather then trying to kill them with your guardians, and to block FI and CO defence.

The fantastic thing about the cathaar is you HAVE to start with the small ships. Then as you get your cruisers and battleships you can look at the universe and see if you can use the large ships or just stick with the small ones, makes cathaar quite flexible and allows alot of player choice.

Personally i think i will use them at sum point, as it shud throw some people and create new options.

The tarantula particularly as it is stil a very good ship in parellel/cluster defence against peg fleets.

[dabult]

Originally posted by Ultimate Newbie
however if you send a fleet that will really hammer any defence, then people will think twice.

Real defenders usually dont think twice, they send if they got anything home

[phjvp]

I have been thinking of using a cr fleet, yes. It depends on what the situation is like when they become available. I certainly found that in r7 (when I was cathaar) the cr/bs roiding fleet was very effective and having a second roiding fleet is never a bad thing IMO.

[Shev]

Originally posted by phjvp
I have been thinking of using a cr fleet, yes. It depends on what the situation is like when they become available. I certainly found that in r7 (when I was cathaar) the cr/bs roiding fleet was very effective and having a second roiding fleet is never a bad thing IMO.

Yeah, thats what i found too.
The extra eta really didnt make all that much difference.

Last round i started late and as a consequence didnt get to build them - mind you, with the number of Xan around i probably wouldn't have bothered anyway.

[[GAP]Obiwan]

Originally posted by Ultimate Newbie

I am wondering if any potential Cathaars out there had considered using said fleet

I am

[TheSeeker]

but dont forget, round 9, the more rounds that pass, the less players stick to planetarion, the more good players are left, few "noobs" around, i see round 9 as the most hardcore round yet, with the most active and skilled players around, it will be harder to use a eta 5 fleet then in round 7.

Roaches freeze Tarantulas/mantis well and Destroyers and other anti-BS ships are free to fire at Guardians. Im Cath this round and I wont use CR fleet for roiding.

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by Bad Society
Roaches freeze Tarantulas/mantis well and Destroyers and other anti-BS ships are free to fire at Guardians. Im Cath this round and I wont use CR fleet for roiding.

The Guardians would return fire onto the Roaches, blowing them out of the stars - leaving more Tarants open to stun DE or whatever is firing on the heavily armoured Guardians.

That's also assuming that the DE got there in time

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
If you do go CR and BS, add Spiders to it (And allot !!) to block your Xan opponents rather then trying to kill them with your guardians, and to block FI and CO defence.

Beetles would do better against the Sentinels/Corsairs, surely.

the Roach shouldnt prove much of a problem after tick 2 unless there are too may FR around for the guardian to hit them.

a combination of both perhaps?

[Sn0w]

roach defender combo would knock the ship out of tula/guardian combo due to init..

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by Ultimate Newbie
Beetles would do better against the Sentinels/Corsairs, surely.

the Roach shouldnt prove much of a problem after tick 2 unless there are too may FR around for the guardian to hit them.

a combination of both perhaps?

well, ofcourse it will be better, but the beetle makes the tarantula's T3 useless, and second, if you have an ETA 5 fleet, might aswell get Scorpions, they might be a bit less effective, but will hardly die, and beetles die quickly.......

if you go for CR and BS, dont buy beetles....

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by Sn0w
roach defender combo would knock the ship out of tula/guardian combo due to init..

true. but thats the only ship that will be able to do anything before the CR and BS fleet.

and ofcourse the guardian will still be untouched and could fire upon the CO's with pretty heavy damage causing to it.

[MAdnRisKy]

defender has been shooting bs since rnd 8 now.....

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
defender has been shooting bs since rnd 8 now.....

if i remember right CR is before BS, and i dont think defenders kill all those cr in 1 tick now huh

[Ultimate Newbie]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
if i remember right CR is before BS, and i dont think defenders kill all those cr in 1 tick now huh

I agree

and even if they did target BA first, the very low numbers of Defenders at Cathaar planets (if there are any at all) wouldnt impact on the BA much.

A 20 mil ish planet with a fleet combo of 50% Tarants, 45% Guardians and 5% mantis pods would have 9 million score in Guardians - very scary amount of damage there, at least 3 mil per tick.

[spectrum]

eta9 m8 work at 5min ticks.
not in regular pa (as long as you arent <3mil and hitting noobs only).

despite this, ever considered facing pirates (which got a major improvement in firepower) ?

(tarant wouldnt shoot t3 ofc as my de would soak up all t2 fire)

[Moondoggie]

if i remember right CR is before BS, and i dont think defenders kill all those cr in 1 tick now huh

You remember wrong. Defenders target BA CR DE. Thus battleships first.

They also fire before all battleships, cruisers, and destroyers with the one exception of the pegasus. Their firepower is also decent and they make a mess of the most common battleship out there, the wyvern, which have pathetic armour.

[Sun Pin]

Originally posted by Moondoggie
and they make a mess of the most common battleship out there, the wyvern, which have pathetic armour.

and when did cathaar start to use wyvern in their CR fleet?????

[dabult]

Originally posted by Sun Pin
and when did cathaar start to use wyvern in their CR fleet?????

uh..he is talking about the Defender killing Wyvern...

[Shev]

Originally posted by dabult
uh..he is talking about the Defender killing Wyvern...

Well thats as may be, but what the heck does it have to do with this thread in that case?

Originally posted by spectrum
eta9 m8 work at 5min ticks.
not in regular pa (as long as you arent <3mil and hitting noobs only).

People continually throw this line out, yet as I and others have said, we have got through a fair few attacks with that eta before. If an entire galaxy is being covered it doesn't always make that much difference.
{Edit}Removed the pish i wrote here earlier.{/Edit}

[Moondoggie]

Well thats as may be, but what the heck does it have to do with this thread in that case?

It was the correction of someone saying that defenders targetted cruisers before battleships. Read each thread in its entirety please.

[Shev]

Originally posted by Moondoggie
It was the correction of someone saying that defenders targetted cruisers before battleships. Read each thread in its entirety please.

Well given that i did, i can state that it was you who threw the thread off in the first place, with the totally out of context comment about defenders killing wyverns.
To quote:

Originally posted by Moondoggie
and they make a mess of the most common battleship out there, the wyvern, which have pathetic armour.

Since the thread is about Cathaar Cr fleets, in what way do wyverns come into it?

To respond in your own metier,
Keep the thread on-topic please.

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by Moondoggie
You remember wrong. Defenders target BA CR DE. Thus battleships first.

They also fire before all battleships, cruisers, and destroyers with the one exception of the pegasus. Their firepower is also decent and they make a mess of the most common battleship out there, the wyvern, which have pathetic armour.

Still, i never seen a cathaar with allot of defenders around, not enough to scare any CR, BS fleet anyways. i dont think we should be scared of the defender.

[Sun_Tzu]

I'll never use cathaar-fleets above de, as simple as that. I've calced around it alot in the past but I feel that the factors outside the bcalc are the thing that kills it.

[Shev]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
Still, i never seen a cathaar with allot of defenders around, not enough to scare any CR, BS fleet anyways. i dont think we should be scared of the defender.

I quite agree.
For resources, you are much better off just building yourself more widows and letting galmates take care of the Bs.

[MAdnRisKy]

Defender in "better than gryphon" shocker!

don't assume the thing blows, it isn't cat's most efficient captial ship stopper (we have roaches for that) but don't anyone say it doesn't hurt....

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by MAdnRisKy
Defender in "better than gryphon" shocker!

don't assume the thing blows, it isn't cat's most efficient captial ship stopper (we have roaches for that) but don't anyone say it doesn't hurt....

still doesnt say cathaar players will actually buy the friggin ship.

[MelAn]

Originally posted by Shev
People continually throw this line out, yet as I and others have said, we have got through a fair few attacks with that eta before. If an entire galaxy is being covered it doesn't always make that much difference.
{Edit}In fact, eta 9 tends to work worse in 5 minute ticks, since there is less chance of finding your target offline.{/Edit}

..completely disagree

[TheSeeker]

seconded

[Shev]

Ok, I gather you disagree.

Any particular reasoning?

Originally posted by Shev
we have got through a fair few attacks with that eta before

I was saying that I have got through quite a lot of attacks at that eta, as have other peple i have attacked with.
Now unless you are saying i'm lying, then i would say it is possible to get through attacks.
If you don't agree, post something constructive.

[TheSeeker]

well this part:

In fact, eta 9 tends to work worse in 5 minute ticks, since there is less chance of finding your target offline

less chance to find your target offline in a 5 minute ticks game??? if i go to bed for even 3 hours you will have 36 ticks to raid my silly ass.... with 1 hour tick game you only have 3 ticks

[Shev]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
well this part:

In fact, eta 9 tends to work worse in 5 minute ticks, since there is less chance of finding your target offline

less chance to find your target offline in a 5 minute ticks game??? if i go to bed for even 3 hours you will have 36 ticks to raid my silly ass.... with 1 hour tick game you only have 3 ticks

Sorry, i was mostly referring to early on when people are still playing. Didn't make that particularly clear i guess, and also unfortunatly makes my comment fairly invalid.
It's true that by the time a significant Bs/Cr fleet could be built in a 5 minute tick game, a lot of people would be sleeping or given up, thereby making it quite easy to attack.

I stand by the opinion that eta 9 attacks aren't so bad though.

I have to agree, an organised player that knows what he is doing can easily pull off eta 9 attacks.

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by Inca
I have to agree, an organised player that knows what he is doing can easily pull off eta 9 attacks.

i seriously doubt that.

[Sun_Tzu]

o/c you can pull it off...just as you can pull off an fr/de attack with a xanda...you just need a stupid enough target o.O

[Spoticus]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
still doesnt say cathaar players will actually buy the friggin ship.

I know a few that will ^_^ As long as terrans build battle ships that is ;o

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by Sun_Tzu
o/c you can pull it off...just as you can pull off an fr/de attack with a xanda...you just need a stupid enough target o.O

and that is exactly what is worrying me, i doubt there will be many noobs left in round 9.

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by Spoticus
I know a few that will ^_^ As long as terrans build battle ships that is ;o

well tbh i think its a waste of resources, and you could better just buy roaches and let your galaxy m8's cover you vs BS

[MelAn]

Originally posted by Shev
Ok, I gather you disagree.

Any particular reasoning?


I was saying that I have got through quite a lot of attacks at that eta, as have other peple i have attacked with.
Now unless you are saying i'm lying, then i would say it is possible to get through attacks.
If you don't agree, post something constructive.

Take your point, transform your point to the total opposite & you'll get my point. ( What's the part you don't understand here?)
I don't care if you acclaim my opinion as something constructive now, still it is "my point of view"

-MelAn-

[Shev]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
and that is exactly what is worrying me, i doubt there will be many noobs left in round 9.

Aha, finally a good reason why it won't work.
I have to admit there is a distinct possibility you are right here, and that going all out for Cr and Bs - the only way to really make this fleet work - is sort of putting all your eggs in one basket.

well tbh i think its a waste of resources, and you could better just buy roaches and let your galaxy m8's cover you vs BS

And this is definitely the way to go if you aren't an all-for-one gambler. Concentrate on what Cathhar do best, freezing things, and especially De.

Originally posted by MelAn
Take your point, transform your point to the total opposite & you'll get my point. ( What's the part you don't understand here?)
I don't care if you acclaim my opinion as something constructive now, still it is "my point of view"

I don't understand what your point is, since you refuse to say anything with any substance whatsoever.
Im assuming you mean that you have tried to get through attacks at eta nine in past rounds and failed, and if this is the case, then thats fair enough. I disagree, but both of our opinions are based on experience.

[Spoticus]

Originally posted by TheSeeker
well tbh i think its a waste of resources, and you could better just buy roaches and let your galaxy m8's cover you vs BS

cathaar have the best anti bs in the game, so umm pls explain what gal mate is gunna save me.

Xans will have none, Ziks/Terrans only got high eta stuff...

[TheSeeker]

Originally posted by Spoticus
cathaar have the best anti bs in the game, so umm pls explain what gal mate is gunna save me.

Xans will have none, Ziks/Terrans only got high eta stuff...

and i think you mean tarantula's, right ????

yes well, that might be true, but keep in mind if you get attacked as a cathaar, the attacker will ALWAYS send enough ships that will stop your tarantula to reach the BS as T3.......

maybe its smarter to have a ship that targets BS more directly then T3 * ? if it kills a good amount he will recall anyways.

[Chax]

Originally posted by Spoticus
cathaar have the best anti bs in the game, so umm pls explain what gal mate is gunna save me.

Xans will have none, Ziks/Terrans only got high eta stuff...

Clearly your zikonian galmate who follows my zikonian strat would waste yuor attacker with his 20% Buccaneers. Sure they're 'high eta' but eta 5 in gal compared to eta 7 attacking wyverns from para isn't too shabby. and if we're talking eta 9 guardians from universe he has ages to react.