Discussion about merging.

[wakey]

Originally Posted by sniborp

So your complaining that other alliances now have the same number of people in their alliance as you now?

Hardly I dont care how many members an alliance has. its the abusability of the feature that troubles me. Here we have a feature which gives an alliance an instant score boost which the alliances they were fighting with cant respond to, to counter the advantage.

If you recruit members your score goes up slowly, score gains can stil be chipped away by your rivals as the same rate your getting them

If you poach them from other alliances these members have the 72hour wait between alliances where they will no-doubt lose out due to not be able to get defence

yet for a mass merge which instantly moves alliances up a number of positions and takes them out of the range where their old rivals can respond and theres no penalty. Its just not right, theres no chance for SiN to be roided while allianceless to peg them back, and therfes even the possability of mergers being done to buy defence. Even if its not the full 72 hours there should be a penality because this system is an abuse of the system, either that or the 72hour wait should be removed from everyone leaving an alliance

[-=Zyth=-]

The amount of crying going on about the rank and not the merge makes this discussion rather absurd, its reminds me of a not much used word, Sophistry

[Kal]

As I said in the other thread - here is the thread to discuss merging and the merge system in - http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=184992

the thread in question has some pretty good ideas about how merging should work - unfortunatly I doubt such a system can be implemented before next round.

So I suggest the following merger rules for the manual ofr next round:

Alliances cannot merge in the last 4 week of the round
Alliances must be small enough to merge for a 2 week period prior to the merge
All HCs in both alliances must agree and pamail an admin informing them of the decision.

Theese rules will prevent people kicking members in order to gain rank unless it is in the first 4 weeks of the round. I think this is sufficient as any ranks gained within the first 4 weeks should be possible to remove through standard warfare.

[alch]

Originally Posted by An idiot

alch, here's a free tip for you:
Shut down your computer. Go out. Meet real people. Have a beer or something with human beings. Realise there's more to life than PA.

Thanks for the smart and relevant tip.

[Gumbie]

Originally Posted by wakey

Yeah ofc you can have a good scoreand start the round off as a training alliance but as soon as you 'tighten' controls you cease to be a training allliance

Originally Posted by wakey

A number of them wont make it in the alliance as they wont be willing to help themselves (for example those who dont use irc and dont supply a reason for not doing so)

Sooo, you have controls that say, if you don't put in the effort to learn, we don't want you? You know, that sounds just like kicking someone for getting 3 defpoints in a month, and hasn't even signed up on the website. In fact, we have multiple people who started after tickstart/recently, who don't have the dp/day rule applied as strictly, and/or were given the chance to contribute in other ways and learn the game workings. Don't believe me? Ask Duron, one of our trainee MOs if we've helped him and taught him new things.

But anyway, this is fairly off topic.

[Cannon_Fodder]

Originally Posted by wakey

Its just not right, theres no chance for SiN to be roided while allianceless to peg them back,

Surely anyone can be roided if you put the thought in?

[Gate]

Originally Posted by alch

- Do you think that the new dynamics of the game (having top planets hard to be taken down because of the XP factor) such an alliance ending #3 at this stage of the round will be hard to be taken down?

But surely any alliance is just as hard to take down? I don't quite get what this question is getting at, as it seems to be extremely basic; could you rephrase it?

Another point is that SiN seemed to have lost their viability. If you are too small to stand on your own, you merge or die.

I would like to point out; this gives the impression that SiN were in the most dire need of assistance, which isn't right.
ND were the ones to originally suggest the merger; we had plenty of discussion over it and many of the advantages helped ND's current position far more than they helped SiN's current position; though in the long term, it should equally benefit both alliances.

Originally Posted by wakey

yet for a mass merge which instantly moves alliances up a number of positions and takes them out of the range where their old rivals can respond and theres no penalty

As far as I know, ND and SiN have been getting hit by the EXilition block throughout the round anyway, and we will continue to be so. Unless some alliances jump on the 'OMG EVIL MERGER!11!!11!!' bandwagon and try to use this as an excuse to hit SiNND in the hope they can avoid retaliation instead of actually fighting a war ofc...

EDIT: Alch, I'll reply to your case about EXil, ToT or Angels merging a lil bit later.

[General Martok]

And a bit more ontopic:

It´s obvious that merging alliances have a large advantage by this, and I don´t mean ranking. The alliances can defend each other with alliance ETA, the staff (DC´s etc) grow, etc.

Wouldn´t it be fair to set some disatvantage against that? Owkay, 72 ticks allianceless might be harsh, but how about a 48 ticks forced "reorganisation"-vacation mode for all planets involved?

[SteInMetz]

I would have agreed with alch that it was unfair if it was solely to gain ranks.. But it isnt.. it is to become a more active group, that will give you guys more competition.. Are Angels afraid of it, yes i think so.. As read in the other thread "You just got yourself alot more incs", well how do you know, are you the one to bring the incs?

We made a tactical move, we surprised you all.. lets go whine on AD!
Hooray for that...

[Gumbie]

Originally Posted by General Martok

And a bit more ontopic:

It´s obvious that merging alliances have a large advantage by this, and I don´t mean ranking. The alliances can defend each other with alliance ETA, the staff (DC´s etc) grow, etc.

Wouldn´t it be fair to set some disatvantage against that? Owkay, 72 ticks allianceless might be harsh, but how about a 48 ticks forced "reorganisation"-vacation mode for all planets involved?

1) Nothing is going to happen retroactively. There's now nothing you can do about it.

2) What is the basis for your penalty? That we now as an alliance (still under 100 members mind. We don't have the "benefit" of the surplus players providing def) can get the same benefits as everyone else? It seems like you want to stop us working as an alliance, else we might get the same perks as you? :s

[wakey]

Originally Posted by Gumbie

Sooo, you have controls that say, if you don't put in the effort to learn, we don't want you? You know, that sounds just like kicking someone for getting 3 defpoints in a month, and hasn't even signed up on the website. In fact, we have multiple people who started after tickstart/recently, who don't have the dp/day rule applied as strictly, and/or were given the chance to contribute in other ways and learn the game workings. Don't believe me? Ask Duron, one of our trainee MOs if we've helped him and taught him new things.

But anyway, this is fairly off topic.

Theres obviously a point where your reaching the upper level of members where you have to start thinking about removing those who arent putting any effort into getting better, we are of no use to new players and lowbies if we cant take those who want to be part of the PA community if we are full due to a handful of people whom are showing no desire to actually play PA or be part of the community. But as any F-Crew member will tell you its hardly a case of removing people for not acheiving set goals, as long as they are active in PA we continually try and help them become more intergrated into the game. Unlike the majority of the alliances in this game we sacrifice our avg score to help others rather than take a few lowbies on and claim to be doing more than they should to help the game introduce people to the game.

Originally Posted by sniborp

Surely anyone can be roided if you put the thought in?

Your just being picky now, you know what i mean. Anyway incase your not being picky and your just failing to comprehend i'll explain.

You have two alliances. Lets call them Alliance N and Alliance S .

Alliance N is struggling around the 10th place mark, Alliance S is doing the same at the 19th rank mark. Alliance N and S decicde they want to become alliance NS so decide to merge.

In this system it happens immediatly (well after any kicking is done). The new alliance now jumps to #3 in rankins. Those ranked around #15-22 suddebly lose a competitorr. A competitor whom attacking has now become much more difficult. The same happens for those around the ranking N was at. Now obviously they can be hit but not as well by the direct rivals they had before. Why is it harder to hit them, well for starters theres the 'intimidation' factor always plays some part, then theres the more members which can play a part especially the really active ones and finally theres the command structure and tools and commanders

In the old system however Alliance S would have to disband. The members would be allianceless for 72hours, some more as they wouldnt all be on in time. Thats 72 hours that the alliance battling with S have to make an impact . Now this impact on S will decide how far up the rankings the merger takes them and what shape they are in when they get ther. They would also not get the immediate use of the structure, commanders ect from the other side because thus helping balance things off a bit.

As it is the system is flawed because it gives alliances merging and advantage and doesnt cost them anything. Any gains like this need counter acting losses.

[alch]

Originally Posted by steinmetz

would have agreed with alch that it was unfair if it was solely to gain ranks.. But it isnt.. it is to become a more active group, that will give you guys more competition.. Are Angels afraid of it, yes i think so.. As read in the other thread "You just got yourself alot more incs", well how do you know, are you the one to bring the incs?

you will have to address this question to angels HC. they will answer you. i was just guessing that you will get more targeted because you have more alliance in the top10 wanting to take you down (because they want to go up the ranks). simple logic, no?

[Wandows]

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

I would have agreed with alch that it was unfair if it was solely to gain ranks.. But it isnt.. it is to become a more active group, that will give you guys more competition..

Its not that i have a problem with you guys merging (as it seems to have been a smart choise ), but saying its not to gain ranks is BS. Any merging / action like this is ofcourse with the intention to gain ranks, whether that is immediatly or within a certain period of time doesn't matter. Its always to gain ranks as that is what the game is about.

anyways, gl in your new form

[TehVader]

Actually what Stein is saying is that it's not solely to gain ranks. Of course we're happy to gain ranks too but that was not our main motivation for the merge.

[Marinho]

All I have to say is:

1. Good job ND for being everlasting creative

2. Did SINND become #1 score/roidwise alliance due this merger finishing this game early? Not as far as I can see?

3. Thx for the initial discussion Alch, we all know you want the best out of/for PA

4. Good luck Kal laying out the new rules regarding mergers

Peace

[Gate]

Originally Posted by Wandows

Its not that i have a problem with you guys merging (as it seems to have been a smart choise ), but saying its not to gain ranks is BS. Any merging / action like this is ofcourse with the intention to gain ranks, whether that is immediatly or within a certain period of time doesn't matter. Its always to gain ranks as that is what the game is about.

anyways, gl in your new form

To clear things up, I think I get what you're saying.

We didn't merge to gain ranks with no effort like we have been accused of doing, we merged in order to regain activity, bring a new surge of confidence, and to have an enjoyable end of round where we prove we still have teeth. And we hoped that this would allow us to fight our way up the rankings.

[Paddy]

Originally Posted by Wandows

Its not that i have a problem with you guys merging (as it seems to have been a smart choise ), but saying its not to gain ranks is BS. Any merging / action like this is ofcourse with the intention to gain ranks, whether that is immediatly or within a certain period of time doesn't matter. Its always to gain ranks as that is what the game is about.

The ranks gained from the merge are nice admittedly but they were not the reason for the merge. In fact afaik the only reason this merger was originally suggested was because morale was getting very low (definately in ND, I don't know so much about SiN). People in ND were starting to become inactive as we were not in the position we had hoped to be and the constant incs (no, not necesarily more than other allinces but still hard to deal with due to so many inactives) were getting people down. This merger gave everyone in ND a new aim for the round and a new reason to be active. The only people who were kicked were people who were not contributing to the spirit of the alliance, ie not sending defence, and people who hadn't been active at least a week. I know people with as low as 250-300k score who were kept whereas people with around 1mil+ score were kicked.

If you think it is wrong for people to be given a new aim rather than leave PA for the rest of the round, maybe permanantly, then there must be something wrong with you

[Rinoa]

Originally Posted by Paddy

The ranks gained from the merge are nice admittedly but they were not the reason for the merge. In fact afaik the only reason this merger was originally suggested was because morale was getting very low (definately in ND, I don't know so much about SiN). People in ND were starting to become inactive as we were not in the position we had hoped to be and the constant incs (no, not necesarily more than other allinces but still hard to deal with due to so many inactives) were getting people down. This merger gave everyone in ND a new aim for the round and a new reason to be active. The only people who were kicked were people who were not contributing to the spirit of the alliance, ie not sending defence, and people who hadn't been active at least a week. I know people with as low as 250-300k score who were kept whereas people with around 1mil+ score were kicked.

If you think it is wrong for people to be given a new aim rather than leave PA for the rest of the round, maybe permanantly, then there must be something wrong with you

Sorry to sound like a broken record but i see what your saying and just wish there was an easy way out so as to give caths a new aim for the round

[jerome]

I'dunno, as a cath myself, not being a repetitive whiney wanker is proving a fun challenge , try it sometime?

[Gumbie]

Originally Posted by wakey

Theres obviously a point where your reaching the upper level of members where you have to start thinking about removing those who arent putting any effort into getting better, we are of no use to new players and lowbies if we cant take those who want to be part of the PA community if we are full due to a handful of people whom are showing no desire to actually play PA or be part of the community. But as any F-Crew member will tell you its hardly a case of removing people for not acheiving set goals, as long as they are active in PA we continually try and help them become more intergrated into the game.

If you don't understand that this was the code SiN went by, you're a damn nubtard. Inactives are kicked. The rest are trained to put their activity to good use.

Now in my opinion, the current merging system works, especially since it is very difficult to undo, due to the 72 hour penalty. Last round Angels decided that their merge wasn't worknig, and paid the price. It's a hard thing to commit to, can only be done under certain circumstances, and yes, the people previously above SiN managed to beat us in a reduced form. Congratulations. The trial you now have to face is beating a tougher foe, and if you can't do that, then you don't "deserve" to win.
And Wakey, if you hadn't noticed, aside from those above ND and below 3rd place, everyone stayed in the same place, or moved up a rank. You have lost a competitor. The rank spot held by SiN was vacated. You're either unaffected (as in your case) as the "boosted" alliance was above you anyway , or you moved up.
Those in positions 9-3 who have been ousted can now "beat the best" (not claiming we are the best ofc ) and prove themselves, to be forever remembered as the alliance that beat the cheap merging tactics...

The field has changed.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by Gumbie

If you don't understand that this was the code SiN went by, you're a damn nubtard. Inactives are kicked. The rest are trained to put their activity to good use.

Now in my opinion, the current merging system works, especially since it is very difficult to undo, due to the 72 hour penalty. Last round Angels decided that their merge wasn't worknig, and paid the price. It's a hard thing to commit to, can only be done under certain circumstances, and yes, the people previously above SiN managed to beat us in a reduced form. Congratulations. The trial you now have to face is beating a tougher foe, and if you can't do that, then you don't "deserve" to win.
And Wakey, if you hadn't noticed, aside from those above ND and below 3rd place, everyone stayed in the same place, or moved up a rank. You have lost a competitor. The rank spot held by SiN was vacated. You're either unaffected (as in your case) as the "boosted" alliance was above you anyway , or you moved up.
Those in positions 9-3 who have been ousted can now "beat the best" (not claiming we are the best ofc ) and prove themselves, to be forever remembered as the alliance that beat the cheap merging tactics...

The field has changed.

Angels was never merged. We were a BC inside mistu (a seperate entity with seperate members) and we decided midround to leave mistu by EACH being allianceless for 72 ticks.

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Angels was never merged. We were a BC inside mistu (a seperate entity with seperate members) and we decided midround to leave mistu by EACH being allianceless for 72 ticks.

However, if you were given the opportunity to move without the 72 tick penalty, would you have taken it?

[Elder]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

However, if you were given the opportunity to move without the 72 tick penalty, would you have taken it?

Were you offered the merge by the PAteam or did you approach them? Obviously the later is the most likely, thus i fail to see your point. Ofc they would have taken it if such a thing had been offered but the point is that they never (as far as I know) approached the PAteam asking for such a treatment.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Elder

Were you offered the merge by the PAteam or did you approach them? Obviously the later is the most likely, thus i fail to see your point. Ofc they would have taken it if such a thing had been offered but the point is that they never (as far as I know) approached the PAteam asking for such a treatment.

In fairness that's their fault then. Frankly I find this akin to someone in round four complaining about everyone else farming because they find it immoral and not in the spirit of the game. Play the game for this round, get the rules changed for next round.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

In fairness that's their fault then. Frankly I find this akin to someone in round four complaining about everyone else farming because they find it immoral and not in the spirit of the game. Play the game for this round, get the rules changed for next round.

Yes I'm sorry we didn't chose the lame way, my apologies ...

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Yes I'm sorry we didn't chose the lame way, my apologies ...

how is it lame?

1) its within the rules
2) its opportunistic
3) its sensible.

You're just bitter Kj.

[Kjeldoran]

Originally Posted by The_Fish

how is it lame?

1) its within the rules
2) its opportunistic
3) its sensible.

You're just bitter Kj.

I can't believe we get an answer like "then you should have done it aswell". Is there any honour left in this game? Any self respecting alliance wouldn't ask to be merged without the 72h in between simply as they'd consider it "unfair" towards others that left an alliance to gain another one (or a new one).

Maybe I'm the only one here who sees this, dunno ...

Also I don't think the rules allow joining a new tag without the 72 hours if it isn't called a merger. That alone says enough about the system imo.

[JonnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Yes I'm sorry we didn't chose the lame way, my apologies ...

I define being "lame" as breaking the rules of a game. They saw a perfectly valid opportunity and they took it. Think about all the victories pa has had previously involving farming and donations. They were perfectly acceptable back then because that was the way you played the game, now it has evolved and they are no longer acceptable ways of winning. If you think this was such an appalling rule you should either have made greater efforts to change it pre-round or chosen not to play (as you had full knowledge that this was a possible outcome).

[Treveler]

Do you really expect us to believe that you wouldn’t do it because it’s not the honourable thing to do? If you do your humour and wits are greatly underrated.

[alch]

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

I define being "lame" as breaking the rules of a game. They saw a perfectly valid opportunity and they took it. Think about all the victories pa has had previously involving farming and donations. They were perfectly acceptable back then because that was the way you played the game, now it has evolved and they are no longer acceptable ways of winning. If you think this was such an appalling rule you should either have made greater efforts to change it pre-round or chosen not to play (as you had full knowledge that this was a possible outcome).

I would go that far and say its lame or they cheated but i would say that i am not happy about the outcome, which is why i raised the issue in this thread, trying to go thru every sensible points in the current rule allowing such merge.

I wanted first to see what the community though about this merge and how people will look at it, if they accept it or not and from the discussion maybe forge a new set of rule regarding the merge, something Right.

This is the purpose of this Thread, a place to air our concern regarding such action, other than that i asked from many people to not flame or troll in here as i wanted a clean discussion.

Just to make sure people will put my claims into right context and to the people who may not know me, i am in no way bitter about this merge, i wish SINND a good luck for the remaining of the round, and when i look at it, on one side we may have loose few ranks and we might have been displaced and i might think this is unfair, but on other side, i have came to conclusion we just got back into the game another 100 Players ready to fight and kick in new spice into the game.

that might put 1up and co block into the battle again and maybe give us more FIGHT and battle while we thought exilition and WP would be hard to be displaced.

Last question addressed to ND and SIN command, what would have been your reaction if you would have found that 2 alliances opposed to your blocks were merged and would end top3. Be honest. Dont you think you would have taken this to AD and air the issue till you would have come to the conclusion that this would have been not THAT bad? im sure everyone would have acted like certain guys acted in here.
We just happen to be the whiner this time
Good luck and may the ships be with you.

[Colt]

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

"You just got yourself alot more incs", well how do you know, are you the one to bring the incs?

If you bothered to read the threads then you would find the answer to this....

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by alch

Ranks should be acquired by a fight and war and not by merging like ND did with SIN.

Please post only relevant comment, straight to the point without flaming. thanks.

Sure alch.

Your a goddamn hypocrite. Was that straight to the point enough?

This game has been riddled with people who did multi, used fraudent crediccards, used bots, systematicly account-shared on a large scale, bought themself a new high-ranking planet from someone when their original planet was killed in battle, DDOS'ed the enemys irc server etc etc.

Several of Angels members have been convicted of beeing involved in these things that I have outlined above. I wont mention names this time, since I usually repspect you, but dont count on it next time I see yourself or Kjeldoran running around critizing ND and SiN for something legimtimate and done by the book.

P.S Its just as hypocritical as when the Fury PR squad tells everyone how bad Exhiltion is for using weaker alliances to flak them (like Fury always did).

[G.K Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Kjeldoran

Is there any honour left in this game? .

No. And you off all people should now.

[Chika]

Personally, based solely that this is IDD in the MANUAL, BEFORE, the ROUND STARTED, then i can't see a problem with it. I think It was a good idea though. And if they play well, they are now in the runs for top 1.
Yes, it does change the politics of the game. Last time I checked thats what the community wanted. Change. And this is change for the better for these 2 alliances. Now....
PLAY BALL!!!

[TehVader]

hi chika, where are you hiding nowadays?

[Cannon_Fodder]

GD, you can have him back

[Clogg]

we dont need to find a smaller alliance, apparently PA would allow us to merge with any alliance an overtook you, but since you didnt acquire your rank with hard work, i dont think you will be THAT upset if another alliance would overtake you with the very same tactics, but i doubt other alliance would react like you are right now.

Alch do you even have a clue about the hard we did do before the merger!?!

I doubt it, so please don't mention it again. Cause we worked our butts off, but we unfortanetely didn't have sufficient resources with our smaller member base. You also need to keep in consideration we also have members who are playing there first round.

These new players have an paid account, and if they would have left the game because we as SiN could not cope alone, wouldn't that be a bigger loss to PA then some whino's crying for their rank.

IMHO you should really take a step back and look at the bigger picture on a longer term then just this round.

[Alki]

so in essence, you came, you played, you lost.......

[Gumbie]

We came, we played, we were losing members slowly, saw we would lose, and so changed tack. We haven't lost yet

[The_Fish]

Originally Posted by Alki

so in essence, you came, you played, you lost.......

It was pretty obvious both SiN and ND were struggling. What would you have done in our position? Lose without trying your hardest WITHIN the rules to succeed?

If thats the case, it says a lot more about you than it does about us.

[DrunkenViking]

Can ppl stop whining about this?

Good initiative by ND and SiN, i hope you manage to hold a top 5 in the end.

And to all the whiners:
"oh no...another alliance just passed us on the rankings, this is horrible, lets go whine on the forum..." Jeezzz, if you dont like an alliance, you try to take it down instead of headless whining on the forums

[aNgRyDuCk]

I've said this before, I believe it was in the other thread, anyways, I'll repeat the general thought.

I won't speak for SiN's situation internally, I can however speak for ND's internal situation. Alot of factors effected ND's performance this round. Those things include real life, school, and the long mid round break. ND's "demise" is not about it's members not being solid PA players, that hasn't been the case, it's activity, for whatever reason, as a membership, ND has not been able to carry a sufficient activity level to this point. We have no internal issues as far as in-fighting, or anything like that. As for incoming, every alliance has had incoming, and we are no different, and that wasn't a factor in our decision.

It was no secret that after finishing 3rd in round 12, that we'd have a big ass target on our backs, just as 1up would. We knew it going in, and we were as prepared as we could have been considering. We simply didn't have the same activity level as we did throughout round 12. Thats not a slam on ND or it's members, very simply, things happened that caused some of our bigger planets to not be able to play at the same level. We also have recruited a number of newer players, and these people have to learn the game. That doesn't happen in 6 weeks or less, and everyone knows that. Keep in mind, these are not excuses, they are simply factors that contributed to the overall situation.

Obviously, we were in a position that required some sort of internal improvement, and after weighing the options, and due to the relationship we've built politically with SiN, this merger was the best option. It basically solved the major problems. Activity, motivation, pride, and teamwork.....our members see their command staff doing what they can to keep this alliance involved in the round, and getting them the help they need to get back into the fight, thus motivating them to step up and contribute to that cause. This was our intention, and I believe it will prove to pay off from now until round end.

You'll find no excuses, or lame ass finger pointing in this explanation, it is simply how it is. For those of you who haven't bitched moaned and complained, thankyou, good luck from here out. For those of you who have.. quit bitching and step up to the plate.... you don't want to see SiNND in top 3, or 5, get your fleets together and knock us down, regardless, this is done

[teknik]

why are people saying merging is such a massive advantage over playing the round from the start? you make it sound like easy street, we got "less incs" somehow by being 2 alliances? i dont think its even possible that ND could have got more incs up until this point, and SiN were stuck in the odd position of having the block war on their hands while all the lower alliances hit them for ranks too... yes there are advantages of merging, i'm not denying that but its not all candy and cake.

and half of people are talking like we have stolen 3rd permenantly, like this is the last day of the round. we will get the place we deserve in 4 weeks time

[Cannon_Fodder]

Yeah, second



*giggles*

[wakey]

Originally Posted by teknik

why are people saying merging is such a massive advantage over playing the round from the start? you make it sound like easy street, we got "less incs" somehow by being 2 alliances? i dont think its even possible that ND could have got more incs up until this point, and SiN were stuck in the odd position of having the block war on their hands while all the lower alliances hit them for ranks too... yes there are advantages of merging, i'm not denying that but its not all candy and cake.

and half of people are talking like we have stolen 3rd permenantly, like this is the last day of the round. we will get the place we deserve in 4 weeks time

Boo hoo hoo, lets all cry because ND have alot of incoming.

wake up and realise mass incoming isnt something ND have a monopoly on. EVERY SINGLE ONE of us gets mass incoming ona regular basis, in fact as has been highlighted on this very forum those of us not involved in block wars are getting MORE incoming on many occasions than those in the block wars.

I mean I get incoming because of my LCH gal mates, Incoming due to my 1up gal mates. incoming due to my wp gal mates, incoming due to my ND gal mates ect ect. However while it seems ND members get this incoming and give up (I was told last night the figure of only 10 of the 80 were still 'active', not sure how accurate that is though) while the rest of us just get on with it and do out best. if we were all as flaky as ND seem to be this game wouldnt have any players ffs.

Just because your members are flaky isnt a valid reason why the 72 hour wait period shouldnt be in place for alliances merging like it is for solo players, in fact the advantages the initial advantages it brings far outweigh the disadvantages and as such the wait period should be even more applicable in this situation

Originally Posted by wakey

stuff

what in earth do you mean by that?

sure ND got incoming, if ND got more or less incoming then other alliances is not the point. nor is it that ND members are, according to you, pantsy's who run at the first sign of incoming.

the reason for the merger was to spark back intrest in the round and pa, the merger was used to up morale, it was done to make sure our members would stay in this game and play it with fun.

it was not done to get a better rank, nor was it done to reduce incoming.

a group of 100 willing and active individuals, roiding galaxy's, talking dirty, defending the impossible. that's alot more fun to play then to sit out the remaining weeks and suck up the incoming fleets.

don't you agree?

[SteInMetz]

Originally Posted by wakey

Boo hoo hoo, lets all cry because ND have alot of incoming.

wake up and realise mass incoming isnt something ND have a monopoly on. EVERY SINGLE ONE of us gets mass incoming ona regular basis, in fact as has been highlighted on this very forum those of us not involved in block wars are getting MORE incoming on many occasions than those in the block wars.

I mean I get incoming because of my LCH gal mates, Incoming due to my 1up gal mates. incoming due to my wp gal mates, incoming due to my ND gal mates ect ect. However while it seems ND members get this incoming and give up (I was told last night the figure of only 10 of the 80 were still 'active', not sure how accurate that is though) while the rest of us just get on with it and do out best. if we were all as flaky as ND seem to be this game wouldnt have any players ffs.

Just because your members are flaky isnt a valid reason why the 72 hour wait period shouldnt be in place for alliances merging like it is for solo players, in fact the advantages the initial advantages it brings far outweigh the disadvantages and as such the wait period should be even more applicable in this situation

I dont see that F-CREW have been around since round1, has they?

[wakey]

Originally Posted by SteInMetz

I dont see that F-CREW have been around since round1, has they?

Well the fact we are the longest running alliance in this game seems to suggest we have. And if you really want to get into a discussion about the age of alliances playing PA i'll be more than happy to debate the reasons "New Dawn" itself isnt actually a round 1 alliance, rather an alliance started in r3 as a tribute to the Round1 ND who disbanded midround 2.

[Cedlind]

<flame>
I bet the real reason they're flaming over this is because ND got their hands on SiNs excelent defencesystem, and all of a sudden can cover their incommings
</flame>

[Corpse]

And getting there hands on the best damn MO/BC in history

http://www.sin-hq.org/corpse.jpg

ftw !