Fake nicking: good or bad?

[Gate]

Originally Posted by [FC]Imperial

if you want to make the community a better place for new and old players then you have to aim for a better goal than removing fake nicking, as the end result is only a round of pa when 99% of intel is out within first 2 days instead of 2 weeks (and this helps the new player how? or does it just help the alliances that want to win and continue winning?)

The end result is more active galaxy channels and more trust in galaxies.

Wakey tried to paint my argument as fake nicking being the only problem, and also made your argument that I favour the removal of fake nicks because it'll help alliances like NewDawn that run for the top.

Both of these are bollocks. I didn't clarify when I was speaking to wakey; fake nicking is the easily solvable sympton. Wakey's suggestion that allies give up taking gal intel from members isn't going to happen unless PA becomes mindless roidrace. With no intel, no politics and no wars because no-one can find anyone to target them.

The second is a rubbish excuse for not doing anything. Top alliances have better intel. Removing fake nicks will quicken their intel gathering by a day or two, or reveal a handful of planets we wouldn't otherwise have found. On the other hand, top alliances tend to get targetted specifically through a round, making hiding their alliance a more valuable attribute.

Urwins, for example, were planet targetted for about 12 nights in a 2 week period by 2 t4 alliances. How often does that happen to F-Crew?

In summary, the bigger alliances are the ones that should be more cautious about removing fake nicks. Smaller alliances using that excuse is obscene.

[Mzyxptlk]

On a sidenote, I noticed some people arguing for and against banning fakenicks.

If there's one thing worse than fakenicks, it's PA Team forcing people to use "real" nicks.

[[FC]Imperial]

Originally Posted by Gate

The end result is more active galaxy channels and more trust in galaxies.

So you keep saying, and as others have pointed out, well maybe only wakey and myself, if you are actively using your fake nick then your galaxy channel will not be inactive and the people in it would trust you as they assume that is really you. The mis-trust only come when you reveal the real you, and tbh i never feel i can't trust someone that is fake-nicking, maybe this is cos i am so trusting, or the fact i understand the nature of it, and just accept it an move on.

Originally Posted by Gate

Wakey tried to paint my argument as fake nicking being the only problem, and also made your argument that I favour the removal of fake nicks because it'll help alliances like NewDawn that run for the top.

Both of these are bollocks. I didn't clarify when I was speaking to wakey; fake nicking is the easily solvable sympton. Wakey's suggestion that allies give up taking gal intel from members isn't going to happen unless PA becomes mindless roidrace. With no intel, no politics and no wars because no-one can find anyone to target them.

well i do not know what you and wakey said to eachother, we don't share logs so i feel i cant answer this part without regurgitating my preavious post.

Originally Posted by Gate

The second is a rubbish excuse for not doing anything. Top alliances have better intel. Removing fake nicks will quicken their intel gathering by a day or two, or reveal a handful of planets we wouldn't otherwise have found. On the other hand, top alliances tend to get targetted specifically through a round, making hiding their alliance a more valuable attribute.

Urwins, for example, were planet targetted for about 12 nights in a 2 week period by 2 t4 alliances. How often does that happen to F-Crew?

Top alliances intel is not 'better' nor is it more 'complete' than any other alliances that puts resources into finding intel. My comment regarding it only helping bigger alliances or the 'winning alliances' is due to the fact that most alliances out of the top10 do not actively use their intel to start wars (apart from maybe last round when ass target picked against HR and probably vise versa). But that is evidence of when they do its against an alliance one or two spots above them.. so it doesnt effect top alliances in anyway what-so-ever. Whereas top alliances will either gang up on #1 alliance or even target those one rank below them to ensure they don't fall to that alliances advances.

Originally Posted by Gate

In summary, the bigger alliances are the ones that should be more cautious about removing fake nicks. Smaller alliances using that excuse is obscene.

Maybe they are the ones that need to be cautious with their intel being released faster, but thats all it is, is faster.. like everyone elses, bigger alliances are not immune from being totally found out just because they play well enough to be top5 in the rankings.

[[DW]Entropy]

Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk

On a sidenote, I noticed some people arguing for and against banning fakenicks.

If there's one thing worse than fakenicks, it's PA Team forcing people to use "real" nicks.

i agree with this tbh. Once more it would be them trying to please the few..by upsetting the many.

[gzambo]

with bp's being made up of multiple allys and the universe shrinking there really is no need to bother fakenicking anymore as all it does is delay mapping the universe by about a day or 2

[Gate]

Originally Posted by [FC]Imperial

like everyone elses, bigger alliances are not immune from being totally found out just because they play well enough to be top5 in the rankings.

That's kind of what I'm saying.

People find out where their adversaries are quickly and efficiently. Fake nicking delays this by a day or two, or hides a planet or two perhaps.

It has very little benefit in terms of intel, and removing fake nicking would do little to benefit the big alliances. Your argument:

Originally Posted by [FC]Imperial

does it just help the alliances that want to win and continue winning?

Is incorrect IMO. Removing fake nicking will not help larger allies a particular amount. It will do little harm to anyone, but will improve things in a bunch of galaxies.

[twig]

well - tbh - Gate - I have read all your comments on here - and you have said the exact same thing over and over again -
You believe that it stops communication between people and galaxy members which leads to new people feeling rejected because they got no one to talk to...
However IMO - this is total bollucks! It's not the fake nicking that does this, it's the people who don't fake nick very well that do this -
I fake nick - not because of the reasons some people put on here ie. because i think i am massively important, think that me hiding my nick will hide my alliance - cos that is also bollucks - I fake nick because like some other people who have been posting here - when people find my nick i get waved - i had my round ****ed - again - cos i got sk'd by a group of people who found out where i was, because i told people my real nick.
This then forces me to fake nick if i want a round without pain in the arse incoming - which seeing as they got around 100 roids at most off me each and no added score - was pointless other than to piss me off.
When this kind of thing stops happening people will be happy to stop the fake nicking - But with you saying that fake nicking destroys galaxies and leaves people left out is rubbish - When i don't want to talk to my gal - i don't - doesn't matter which nick i am using, or which screen i have to look at.
You also talk about trust being broken - but surely - i am already breaking peoples trust - believe it or not - my real names not twig - but i use the nick 'Twig' does this then mean that people shouldn't trust me - cos i'm not using my real name - This round the people in my gal trusted me - i think - and i now talk to them with my real nick - and from what i can tell that hasn't changed anything that they view about me. I still talk to them now in the exact same way that i did with my fake nick.
So in response to this Gate and all the rest of you who seem to share his views, I think that you are the problems - because your complain about it and because you bring such negative thoughts about fake nicking into convo's - the only reason people are really complaining is because it's another thing to complain about.
Well thats about it really - i'm pretty sure that i'm now gonna have a ton of people disagreeing with what i say and probably saying that i sound like the fool - but thats their choice.

oh and btw Gate - if your going to come into a public channel for an alliance and talk to a hc about anything like this in the future - then listen!!!! When you came and talked to me as soon as you saw i was disagreeing with you you went extremely protective of what you were saying and seemed to ignore all the views i said to you - then even with the offer of speaking to other people about it you just told me to get them to contact you - well shows how much effort you put into things doesn't it =/

Btw - sorry people for this v.long post - but i believe it to be a contributive point to what is being said.

[[FC]Imperial]

Originally Posted by Gate

Is incorrect IMO. Removing fake nicking will not help larger allies a particular amount. It will do little harm to anyone, but will improve things in a bunch of galaxies.

The only reason i can see that removing fake nicking would improve things in a bunch of galaxies is due to the fact that there shouldn't be anyone 'forgetting' about their galaxy channel, and actually using it (as they easily could with a fake nick also, but i accept that people can be forgetful/lazy about such things)

[puss]

Ok, back to the original post:

Originally Posted by Gate

I'm of the opinion that fake nicking is a bad thing.

Glad you have an opinion and wish to share it

[quote=Gate]
Galaxies where people fake nick have a lower level of in-galaxy trust,[quote]
That doesn't make any sense, any new player to PA has no idea who anyone is in the game apart from the person who introduced them. So the name of the person in gal chan makes no difference surely?

Originally Posted by Gate

and channels populated by fake nicks tend to be dead and boring.

Also i see no sense here - fake nicks != dead and boring gal,
lazyiness and inactivity in-gal = dead and boring gal, yes?

Originally Posted by Gate

New players struggle to get involved in the community

Too true. Players in alliances such as F-Crew and ASS contain the types of players which improve the likelihood of 'new' players returning, taking them under their wing without vouches and lengthy interviews about their experience/other links in PA. These alliances train these new players and get them involved in the bigger communities of PA - the alliances.

Originally Posted by Gate

because of it[fake-nicking] and it's just generally shit IMO.

I know fake-nickers, and i also know these peeps are just as active as fake nicks as they are in their real nicks, so the connection is flawed.

Originally Posted by Gate

My evidence for this is my observation of galaxies I've been in and the experience of my housemate who signed up this round and didn't enjoy the main round much, partly because of being thrown in a dead fake-nicking chan.

Again the problem was he was in a dead galaxy - my advice to him straight away would have been exile mate - there's plenty of active gals out there - I do hope you told him that instead of leaving him to it just blaming fake-nicking.

Originally Posted by Gate

To try and do something about this I approached a bunch of alliances

I'd like to say thank-you for approaching ASS for our opinion, was nice to be considered in the discussion as we are still a relatively new alliance to PA . Though next time I'd appreciate it if you didn't take one members opinion as alliance opinion. The HC you talked to said he didn't represent our alliance opinion yet you told him you were taking it as that anyway. You could have left the question with us to write what we thought on here or to get back to you via IRC, would have been more appropriate.

Originally Posted by Gate

about agreeing to stop fake nicking and fake channels for a round.

Fake channels as well? - see how does this decrease galaxy activity? I can't help but think now that your reasons for stopping the fake nicking are not fully being explained?

Originally Posted by Gate

On the whole, the response has been positive, but two of the smallest alliances who I'd have supposed best represented the new players who struggle with fake gal chans believe there is no problem and that no effort needs to be taken.

Are they right?

As the first alliance to disagree with you has already been labelled as F-crew that means the second and last alliance to disagree was ASS. And as you have stated we probably best represent new players (we recruit within our galaxies and take on new players in PA), so it would make sense that what we are saying is worth listening to?

I personally see the problem for new players is not the names of the people in their gal chan or the names of the channels that their defence is sent to, but the lack of help in galaxy forums to get players into the community and the lack of players around to help out new people getting to grips with PA - so I suggest that we have a slightly different initiative alliance wide:

For all members of alliances to make sure the galaxy forums have a useful help thread for noobs including things like:
>help getting onto IRC
>benefits of being in an aliance and where to find the recruitment threads
>initial things to do with ur account to make sure you don't completely mess up your planets chances in the first few days of PA

and finally if a galaxy is inactive don't just exile - write a mail to the gal members / in the forum explaining there are more active gals out there, and that all you gotta do is exile a bit to find one thats right for you. <-- just to help out those noobs in there that may be active but just don't know what they are doing yet.

Ok, well, that started as a small post but as usual, I can't keep my mouth shut once I've started :s

[Gate]

Originally Posted by puss

For all members of alliances to make sure the galaxy forums have a useful help thread for noobs including things like:
>help getting onto IRC
>benefits of being in an aliance and where to find the recruitment threads
>initial things to do with ur account to make sure you don't completely mess up your planets chances in the first few days of PA

I'm up to my nuts in work right now so I can't reply properly to both your & twig's posts yet...

But this seems like an excellent suggestion. If I have time and find enough alliances that agree with this, then I wouldn't mind writing up such a thread that can be copied & pasted into any galaxy forums.

Although I fully expect to get shit from people about how I'm only doing it to benefit ND or people who see it as perfectly acceptable to instantly exile anyone who's new.

[puss]

hehe - well our alliance already has this type of info on our official forums available to anyone who looks there - but we could easily copy that into gals we are in, and if other alliances make their own 'versions' for their members to copy in then it isn't gonna look like it's ND promotional info, but actually the alliances of PA as a whole trying to help out noobs.

[theking]

hihi, gate is a nobo who fakenicked after joining my gal

safe rocks, duo is cute

oh and i thought vdm was a fake nick

[Veedeejem!]

Originally Posted by theking

oh and i thought vdm was a fake nick

That's caus you're a nobody who crashes his fleet on the last day of the round

Was fun being ingal with you though

[Veedeejem!]

Originally Posted by puss

For all members of alliances to make sure the galaxy forums have a useful help thread for noobs including things like:
>help getting onto IRC
>benefits of being in an aliance and where to find the recruitment threads
>initial things to do with ur account to make sure you don't completely mess up your planets chances in the first few days of PA

I wrote a massive post on my galforum (before i exiled into thekings gal) with a tutorial on how to use irc and how to set up your perform properly so all the new player needs to do is press connect after he's done the tutorial and he automaticly connects to all the channels he needs.

I lost the original doc file of it though but I'd be glad to make it again (including some screenshots if needed)

I think that it would probably fit the portal more than the galaxy forum.
A step by step new player guide could be created and put on the portal and then just have a link (that you can't miss) that links people to the new player guide ingame.

[[FC]Imperial]

The forum maybe be better for targetting new players, they may not be inclined to read the portal. Otherway is to put a link on the overview or in the forum that points to the portal page which this tutorial is on.

[Veedeejem!]

Thats kinda what i meant I just seemed to have forgotten to type "on the overview" somewhere in my post.

I wouldn't recommend putting the new player guide on the forum especially with the portal needing content.